HTC Files Complaint Against Apple for Patent Infringement

[ogo]

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010/05/12/htc-defends-itself-against-apple-with-a-video/

Not a bad video if you ask me!

You just made me nostalgic. Seems that I was an HTC customer before becoming Apple's one.

I owned the first palm pc on their video - Everex Freesyle exactly 12 years ago.
http://www.streettech.com/archives_gadget/freestyle.html
Ohh, the joys of Outlook sync using 9600 bits per second via IRDA.


And second one featured, Compaq's iPaq Pocket PC, too, approximately 3 years later.

Been enjoying few Palm devices in between. And few Apple's devices after. And now also using HTC/Google's Nexus One.

Hands down to HTC. They brought many new technologies into this world, but they were mostly silent. And in the beginning even hidden under other brand names.

 

[BaldiMac]

you seem to be under the impression that Apple's iPhone was the first of it's kind. it wasn't.

I guess you are right if you choose to ignore everything that made the iPhone unique at its introduction.

 

[SmileyDude]

you seem to be under the impression that Apple's iPhone was the first of it's kind. it wasn't.

What kind are we talking about? Smartphone? Definitely not the first. Touch screen phone? Nope. Phone you can install apps on? No...

How about this then -- first phone with mass market appeal, a consistent well defined UI designed only for touch and a tightly integrated implementation from the desktop software to the phone to even the carrier's network (visual voicemail anyone)? Nobody has touched that yet.

Android has some of the iPhone's features, yet came out after the iPhone.

RIM is still trying to figure out how to make a coherent touch interface and still hasn't managed to figure out how to properly sync media from a Mac (dunno about the PC -- feel free to chime in).

Palm was promising, but they showed up a year after the iPhone with the Pre and went round and round on trying to backdoor into iTunes for media syncing.

Windows Mobile is pretty much dying a slow and painful death, being pinched by the iPhone and Android. I don't see it going away quickly -- but given that Android is really about making a cheaper WinMo, I'm not sure what Microsoft's business model will be.

Then there is Nokia -- Nokia was the undisputed king of smartphones before Apple came along. The N95 was a very capable device. Even after the iPhone came along, Nokia still could best Apple in raw feature count. But Nokia has no idea on how to make a decent UI that's usable by average users. I had to write code for S60 platforms, and I had a hard time of making my way around on those devices. And Nokia's software for the desktop was downright horrible.

You are right -- Apple wasn't the first in most of the categories that the iPhone fits into. But Apple was the first to put all of those firsts, along with mixing in some of it's own experience with the Mac and the iPod, into making a one of a kind device that finally got a lot of people buying smart phones instead of cheap feature phones.

 

[thetechnologist]

what should HTC do? roll over?

The next step will be Apple filing a patent on the way they handle patent infringement lawsuits blocking HTC from doing this again. The patent system is just as ridiculous as all of these silly tech companies right now for allowing this madness.

 

[cmaier]

The next step will be Apple filing a patent on the way they handle patent infringement lawsuits blocking HTC from doing this again. The patent system is just as ridiculous as all of these silly tech companies right now for allowing this madness.

What, specifically, is ridiculous?

 

[DakotaGuy]

Apple makes and has always made quality products. I'm not about to turn my back on Apple just because this HTC is afraid of compitition. HTC! Why don't you make innovative products and then you can complain.

So using the same logic couldn't one make a statement that Apple is suing HTC because they are afraid of the competition?

 

[AidenShaw]

so your saying palm is okay then?

Edit:

so you're saying HP is okay then?

HP can afford many more lawyers than Palm ever could....

 

[ogo]

Edit:



HP can afford many more lawyers than Palm ever could....

May be they can do "preemptive strike" against Apple now and add to the patent lawsuit fun.

 

[ydaf]

I hope HTC sues the hell out of Apple and wins (assuming the counter suit has merit).

Apple is suing left and right and trying to monopolize the consumer industry. Yet the Apple fan boys can see no wrong in whatever Apple does, however if another company wants to sue against Apple then the other corporation must be greedy, unethical etc...

I also hope Adobe sues the hell out of Apple and stops producing all of its products for Apple. Let's see how the fan boys react with no Flash, Photoshop etc...

Wake up and see how Apple is ripping people off left and right. Apple is clearly the new Microsoft with its monopolies, outrageous pricing and closed source programming. Yes, nobody is forcing you to buy Apple products, but at the same time, nobody is forcing you to buy Microsoft products yet you fanboys bash them all the time.


Thank you.

 

[louis Fashion]

Some French Guy

We will not be safe until the last lawyer is strangled with the guts of the last priest. -- Robespierre

 

[xIGmanIx]

new from apple at WWDC, iSue, their intuitive litigation innovation, with one click baseless patent infringement suits and propaganda

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Gizmodo allegedly has the list of patents.
http://m.gizmodo.com/5537353/the-patents-htc-is-suing-apple-over/gallery/1

I think they bought themm off of a guy who found them in a bar....

 

[Mrtrick]

The video

This just proves HTC has a good marketing team, but it does diddly squat for their case. After watching this, all I could think was apple beat them to the hand held mobile device arena by 7-10 years when they started the development of the newton sometime in the late 80s.

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010/05/12/htc-defends-itself-against-apple-with-a-video/

Not a bad video if you ask me!

Agreed. Not a bad video!

 

[BaldiMac]

I hope HTC sues the hell out of Apple and wins (assuming the counter suit has merit).

Okay. Most people hope that the suit with more merit wins.

Apple is suing left and right

No, they are not. They have initiated lawsuits against Psystar and HTC. Anybody else significant in the last 10 years?

and trying to monopolize the consumer industry.

No, they are not.

Yet the Apple fan boys can see no wrong in whatever Apple does, however if another company wants to sue against Apple then the other corporation must be greedy, unethical etc...

Strawman.

I also hope Adobe sues the hell out of Apple and stops producing all of its products for Apple. Let's see how the fan boys react with no Flash, Photoshop etc...

Almost half of Adobe's revenue comes from Mac products.

Wake up and see how Apple is ripping people off left and right. Apple is clearly the new Microsoft with its monopolies, outrageous pricing and closed source programming. Yes, nobody is forcing you to buy Apple products, but at the same time, nobody is forcing you to buy Microsoft products yet you fanboys bash them all the time.

FUD. Apple is not a monopoly. Their pricing is no more than their customers are willing to pay. And closed source programming is not something nefarious.

Thank you.

Your welcome.

 

[John Dillinger]

I hope HTC gets thrown under the bus. Then I hope the bus reverses over them several more times. I HATE my HTC Hero. I honestly would rather have a "dumb phone" instead of the Hero... But I'm stuck on a 2 year contract with this nonsense.

Dude didnt you try out the Hero in the store, maybe compare it to the iPhonebefore you bought it?? Theres only like 50 reviews out for the thing as well. I suppose the T3 Gadget of the year 2009 award lured you in?

In any case, contract doesnt mean you cant buy another phone. Sling the Hero on ebay- if its still in decent condition they fetch around 200GBP second hand... use that to go towards the new iphone when it comes out, just buy that cash/unlocked.. and keep on same contract, save yourself some cash in the process

 

[cmaier]

Apple is suing left and right and trying to monopolize the consumer industry. Yet the Apple fan boys can see no wrong in whatever Apple does, however if another company wants to sue against Apple then the other corporation must be greedy, unethical etc...

They've filed one patent lawsuit. What are you talking about?

 

[John Dillinger]

I'm personally not too happy about Apple's (perceived) behavior here, but given that Microsoft and HTC just came to an agreement not too long ago about patent licensing for HTC's Android phones, I really can't help to think that Apple has probably been working with HTC behind the scenes to get them to come clean regarding their patents. Or perhaps Apple isn't willing to license the patents at all -- it's their right under our current system -- and has decided that it's had enough with the blatant stealing of their IP.

The thing is, HTC is going to look like the David to Apple's Goliath in this case, but it's not really as clear cut as that. HTC knew that they were likely violating some of Apple's patents in their efforts to catch up to the iPhone. Either they ignored it, or they approached Apple and Apple said no -- so they still ignored it. Either way, they don't come off looking innovative -- they come off looking like a cheap clone maker. Given that, it's not surprising at all that Apple would sue.

One more thing -- Apple's original complaint was for 20 patents. HTC responds back with 5 patents? Is that all their lawyer's could come up with?

Did HTC just bring a knife to a gun fight?

Sorry these statements really rile me up...

Clone maker?? Have you seen read heard anything about the phone hardware HTC is shipping NOW... versus even the to be released ipHone 4?? Cheap clone maker??

Oh yes cause Apple already released an unibody anodized aluminium phone yes? What you mean HTC did? Like 6 weeks ago? And were still looking at plastic iphone spyware???

 

[cmaier]

My analysis of patent #1: 6,999,800

1. A method for power management of a smart phone having a power system, a mobile phone system operated in a standby, sleep, connection or off mode, and a PDA system operated in a normal, sleep or off mode, the method comprising steps of: resetting the smart phone; searching for network service for the mobile phone system; operating the mobile phone system in standby mode and the PDA system in normal mode when the network is located and connected to; switching the mobile phone system from standby mode to connection mode when establishing communication with a remote terminal of the network; switching the mobile phone system from standby mode to sleep mode when the mobile phone system has been idle for a first period of time; switching the PDA system from normal mode to sleep mode when the PDA system has been idle for a second period of time; and implementing a power detection method comprising steps of: detecting an amount of power of a source in the power system; switching the mobile phone system to off mode when the detected amount is less than a first threshold; and switching the PDA system to off mode when the detected amount is less than a second threshold

First, this is horribly drafted. It has all sorts of divided infringement issues (no one party is performing all of the steps of the claim). Second, it's not infringed (I think) because of the bolded part. When power is low on an iPhone, it shuts off both the radios and the "PDA" system. There are no two thresholds. Third, it's invalid under 35 USC 103, as being an obvious combination of a power management system for a phone with a power management system for a PDA.

 

[cmaier]

My analysis of patent #2: 5541988

This has multiple independent claims. First:

1. A telephone dialler comprising a keypad to generate a sequence of indicia corresponding to a telephone number,
a memory to store said sequences of indicia to provide a telephone directory,

a central processing unit (CPU) to access said directory to store and retrieve indicia therein, and

a display to display sequences retrieved from said directory by a page selection device, said sequences of said indicia in said directory being collected into discrete pages each of which may be selected for retrieval from said memory by a page selection device, said CPU displaying at least one of said sequences on said display, a manually operable scanning device to scan indicia of said selected page on said display, and a manually operable selector to select one of said indicia on said display for dialling.

It is clear that the "scanning device" will be construed as a physical device, based on this text in the patent specification:

The telephone dialler according to the invention provides an easy and fast access to the stored telephone directory through repositioning of a single sliding or rotary control, which depending on its position causes the associated address generator to generate an address, used to retrieve the necessary telephone number and associated with it additional information. Moving this control permits easy scanning of the contents of the telephone directory memory and by displaying it on an alpha-numeric display easy location of the desired number.

Similarly, the "selector" is indicated to be a manually-operated button or the like, and hence is not likely present on iPhone.

Finally, the patent specification makes it pretty clear that the iPhone does not contain "pages" within the meaning of the patent.

The other independent claims likewise contain similar claim limitations, and hence are not infringed.


Therefore infringement is unlikely.

 

[SmileyDude]

Sorry these statements really rile me up...

Clone maker?? Have you seen read heard anything about the phone hardware HTC is shipping NOW... versus even the to be released ipHone 4?? Cheap clone maker??

Oh yes cause Apple already released an unibody anodized aluminium phone yes? What you mean HTC did? Like 6 weeks ago? And were still looking at plastic iphone spyware???

There are two halves to any piece of tech -- hardware and software. Apple makes good hardware, but their real focus is on software. HTC is a hardware only company for the most part. They wrap their hardware in software from other companies. They better make as good or better hardware than Apple -- it's the only halve they control.

But here is the problem -- people don't generally buy phones because the hardware is good or the software is good. They buy them because the complete package is good.

By definition HTC is a clone maker -- just as much as Dell, HP and Asus are clone makers. They take Intel's chips, stick it into their own cases and wrap Microsoft's software around it. HTC does the same thing, except replace Intel's chips with ARM chips made by Samsung and other companies and replace Microsoft's software with, well Microsoft and Google. It's the same business model.

Contrast with Apple, RIM, Nokia and Palm/HP -- they might still take ARMs chips, but they put it into their own hardware designs and put their own software.

Yeah, HTC still looks like a clone maker to me. And by ignoring Apple's patents, they look cheap as well. They paid Microsoft, so it's not like they don't see any merit to the argument that Android isn't free of IP costs. They just don't want to pay Apple.

 

[cumanzor]

.
Yeah, HTC still looks like a clone maker to me. And by ignoring Apple's patents, they look cheap as well. They paid Microsoft, so it's not like they don't see any merit to the argument that Android isn't free of IP costs. They just don't want to pay Apple.

And this is precisely why I hesitate in taking any position; the assumption that HTC is at fault while Apple is not. What prove do we have that either side is completely wrong or right? The same goes for Nokia.

 

[PsudoPowerPoint]

... under our current patent regimen innovation is proceeding at an astounding pace. Patents provide incentive for companies to do big money research ...

I'm surprised by how many people on Mac Rumors forums seem to think that patents are a hindrance to innovation, or seem to reject the idea that a business has a right to protect or control its intellectual property.

Were I to start a company driven by innovation, I would choose to start it in a country with strong patent protections. How about you?

 

[SmileyDude]

And this is precisely why I hesitate in taking any position; the assumption that HTC is at fault while Apple is not. What prove do we have that either side is completely wrong or right? The same goes for Nokia.

Point taken -- that's the reason we have courts to take care of this kind of thing. It's pretty likely that both parties share some blame here. Both parties will talk about how the other has wronged them, and until someone goes through and sorts out the claims properly, it's all just assumptions and speculation on our part.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

All I can say is anyone who has used an HTC Incredible (and Sense UI) that I know loves it. I have used it and am extremely impressed by it. Depending on what happens with the next iPhone, its coming down to either the Incredible or the next iPhone. I still have a 1st Generation iPhone because honestly, the iPhone has been the same since the day it came out.

 

[AidenShaw]

I still have a 1st Generation iPhone because honestly, the iPhone has been the same since the day it came out.

I thought that the 2G was shinier than the 1G, and that the current 3G is shinier than the 2G. The glass back on the 4G will make it even shinier.

After all, on the Internet the "shinier" gadget wins.