HTC Files Complaint Against Apple for Patent Infringement

[SmileyDude]

I still have a 1st Generation iPhone because honestly, the iPhone has been the same since the day it came out.

I'm a bit perplexed on this point -- the iPhone has gone through 2 major software revisions and is about to get it's 3rd. The interface has been evolving, not radically changing -- but to say that the iPhone is the same is a bit of a stretch.

I won't disagree that the original iPhone and iPhone 3G were basically the same device, but with a 3G modem and GPS in the 3G. But the 3GS was a massive improvement in CPU power over the original. They also upped the camera resolution and added the compass hardware as well. They also bumped up the max storage from 16GB to 32GB. And going forward, the 3GS is getting multi-tasking while the 3G and original aren't due to their lower amounts of RAM.

If the rumors of the next iPhone all turn out to be true, it should be a very competitive with the Incredible. Front facing camera, flash for the camera on the back, A4 based CPU, double the resolution screen. I would expect to see 802.11n since the iPad has it now -- though they might keep that on the iPad only for now. And we'll probably get some improved battery performance too.

And all of the iPhone 4.0 improvements as well -- the iPhone hasn't been sitting still the past three years.

I can see the Incredible is a viable competitor, but I can't see how the iPhone hasn't been keeping up as well. Either phone should be a great upgrade over your current iPhone. I still prefer the iPhone OS myself, but that's your own call

 

[all-in-my-head]

Patent for suing

I'd like to register a patent.

This patent describes the action of suing company for patent infringement, this process may take the form of legal injunction, cease and desist orders or general legal proceedings. These methods may involve lawyers to carry out such actions and include any form of counter-suing.

Right where's my lawyers number I've got a whole bunch of tech companies to sue!!!

 

[budselectjr]

Reverse Engineering FTW. Sorry HTC. Go and talk to IBM if you need a shoulder to cry on.

 

[igxqrrl]

I'm a bit perplexed on this point -- the iPhone has gone through 2 major software revisions and is about to get it's 3rd. The interface has been evolving, not radically changing -- but to say that the iPhone is the same is a bit of a stretch.

I won't disagree that the original iPhone and iPhone 3G were basically the same device, but with a 3G modem and GPS in the 3G. But the 3GS was a massive improvement in CPU power over the original. They also upped the camera resolution and added the compass hardware as well. They also bumped up the max storage from 16GB to 32GB. And going forward, the 3GS is getting multi-tasking while the 3G and original aren't due to their lower amounts of RAM.

If the rumors of the next iPhone all turn out to be true, it should be a very competitive with the Incredible. Front facing camera, flash for the camera on the back, A4 based CPU, double the resolution screen. I would expect to see 802.11n since the iPad has it now -- though they might keep that on the iPad only for now. And we'll probably get some improved battery performance too.

And all of the iPhone 4.0 improvements as well -- the iPhone hasn't been sitting still the past three years.

I don't see any of the hardware improvements as notable. Inclusion of 3G and GPS are interesting only because their exclusion from the original iPhone was such an obvious shortcoming of that device. Otherwise the improvements have been strictly incremental.

On the software front, the only real improvement has been the app store. I think Apple does deserve credit for pushing that model so successfully. I don't count things like "cut and paste" as worthy of mention. Those are minor features.

But to any observer the iPhone of today, after 3 years, is largely indistinguishable from the iPhone of 2007. In 2007 the iPhone had a tremendous user-experience advantage over its competitors. In 2010, any advantage is debatable. For all practical purposes the competition has completely closed the gap.

Apple has been resting on its laurels. With some luck the next generation will bring some genuine improvements. Because HTC's new products look very good. And with Apple's yearly release schedule, whatever they release needs to be good enough to hold off competitors with monthly release cycles for an 12 months.

 

[phan99]

I'd be interested to see the exact patents that HTC is claiming Apple has infringed on. From a high-level view, patent disputes such as these are pointless for the simple fact that there's only so many ways to build a phone. Certain commonalities would inevitably exist even if development was done in a complete vacuum.

That said, Apple was the first one to the table on this one, and every other manufacturer has been playing catchup (PC for "copying") since. I'd be hard-pressed to believe HTC did something truly original that Apple then intentionally and directly copied from an HTC offering.

Obviously, I don't know the exact patents that are in question, but it seems to me that Apple has complaints against others when it comes to multi-touch and the operation dealing with the OS. The other phone companies seem to have complaints when it comes to the actual cellular operation side, such as antenna placement and reception.

I don't know who is right and who is wrong, I just want this whining to stop from all sides. The only one winning is certainly the attorneys, and the consumer pays the price because this increases costs to every company. Not to mention all of the judges that taxpayers employ to hear these cases. Time to take a deep breath and come to some sort of an agreement where we can all play nice.

 

[cmaier]

The only one winning is certainly the attorneys, .

No, actually, the other one winning is the winner.

 

[Ayria]

Yet another whining company

HTC make some nice products, but like Nokia and Nintendo they now take up the litigation club because they have spat the dummy over being left on the sidelines yet again technologically...what a joke.

Whining companies cant compete with Apple! Hehe

So they attack em...

Ummmmm... good luck - haha

 

[Ayria]

what should HTC do? roll over?

Yep

 

[phytonix]

HTC's five patents are so lame
that they just make them look like no innovator at all.

 

[Avalontor]

Is there any case of something like this actually ever leading to a 'big' product's production and sale halted??

Or is it always sorted internally and nothing much comes of it?

Yes, just recently, Microsoft's Office products.

 

[bobertoq]

HTC can go sniff a cat. A rather smelly cat that does not know how to use the litter box.

Why? Because they sued your favorite company?

Maybe Apple should learn to come up with their own ideas and stop copying everyone else! /s

 

[xIGmanIx]

such talk on this site is blasphemy!!

I don't see any of the hardware improvements as notable. Inclusion of 3G and GPS are interesting only because their exclusion from the original iPhone was such an obvious shortcoming of that device. Otherwise the improvements have been strictly incremental.

On the software front, the only real improvement has been the app store. I think Apple does deserve credit for pushing that model so successfully. I don't count things like "cut and paste" as worthy of mention. Those are minor features.

But to any observer the iPhone of today, after 3 years, is largely indistinguishable from the iPhone of 2007. In 2007 the iPhone had a tremendous user-experience advantage over its competitors. In 2010, any advantage is debatable. For all practical purposes the competition has completely closed the gap.

Apple has been resting on its laurels. With some luck the next generation will bring some genuine improvements. Because HTC's new products look very good. And with Apple's yearly release schedule, whatever they release needs to be good enough to hold off competitors with monthly release cycles for an 12 months.

 

[chiefpace]

The irony is....

The irony is that Apple is now the new Microsoft. Suppressing innovation, controlling our environment, turning us into mindless Jobs words spewing zombies that feel superior to the unwashed. HTC is kicking butt and Android is now actually outselling iPhones. But wait Google actually dwarfs both Microsoft and Apple and knows what we think, what we want and where we go. Be scared, be very scared......

 

[marksman]

Isn't that a new phone coming to verizon?

The HTC Lawsuit

 

[domain]

Second, it's not infringed (I think) because of the bolded part. When power is low on an iPhone, it shuts off both the radios and the "PDA" system. There are no two thresholds. Third, it's invalid under 35 USC 103, as being an obvious combination of a power management system for a phone with a power management system for a PDA.

This might be a silly question, but in terms of two of their claims:

6,999,800
7,716,505

I would think the descriptions of these "power management" features are sufficiently similar enough to standards predating them both by 10+ years (APM/ACPI/etc.). Both describe functionality that these patents have just attempted to define in a more limited scope.

I don't see anything "new" here... setting device power states for energy conservation has been around for a long time. And the second is essentially describing a "suspend to disk" operation.

 

[0dev]

I assume Steve Jobs is sitting in his office saying "Ahh, touché"

 

[Master Chief]

HTC's five patents are so lame
that they just make them look like no innovator at all.

I'm sorry – well not really – but this is another example of your silly pathetic writing habits; Anyone who actually holds a patent portfolio is an innovator. That is why they have patents... and you don't.

 

[Keniff]

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010/05/12/htc-defends-itself-against-apple-with-a-video/

Not a bad video if you ask me!

Oh, The Irony!

"Good artists copy, great artists steal"

Steve Jobs from 1994 needs to have a word with Steve Jobs from 2010!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

 

[Core.Rot]

I'm sorry – well not really – but this is another example of your silly pathetic writing habits; Anyone who actually holds a patent portfolio is an innovator. That is why they have patents... and you don't.

Patents to what exactly, from reading the Law Suit papers filed against HTC they are claiming infringement of the Software as well as the Hardware.

Let's not forget that Apple has a License under the GNU/Creative Commons Licensing which grants that they may use sections of Open Source in the software. So when HTC comes along and then makes use of what people coin as Open Source then Apple has no real right to claim ownership of that Software (They most certainly didn't invent it!) and Doing so Violates their GNU/License!

When HTC's lawyers & Apples lawyers have finished with each other, I hope they've braced themselves for the fallout that will follow when the Free Software Foundations lawyers get involved to revoke their License thereby removing things like the X11 Windows manager from their devices altogether!

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I don't see any of the hardware improvements as notable. Inclusion of 3G and GPS are interesting only because their exclusion from the original iPhone was such an obvious shortcoming of that device. Otherwise the improvements have been strictly incremental.

On the software front, the only real improvement has been the app store. I think Apple does deserve credit for pushing that model so successfully. I don't count things like "cut and paste" as worthy of mention. Those are minor features.

But to any observer the iPhone of today, after 3 years, is largely indistinguishable from the iPhone of 2007. In 2007 the iPhone had a tremendous user-experience advantage over its competitors. In 2010, any advantage is debatable. For all practical purposes the competition has completely closed the gap.

Apple has been resting on its laurels. With some luck the next generation will bring some genuine improvements. Because HTC's new products look very good. And with Apple's yearly release schedule, whatever they release needs to be good enough to hold off competitors with monthly release cycles for an 12 months.

Pretty much what I was thinking. I am hoping iPhone OS 4 is great though because I like keeping all my Apples in one basket so to speak.

 

[BaldiMac]

Patents to what exactly, from reading the Law Suit papers filed against HTC they are claiming infringement of the Software as well as the Hardware.

Let's not forget that Apple has a License under the GNU/Creative Commons Licensing which grants that they may use sections of Open Source in the software. So when HTC comes along and then makes use of what people coin as Open Source then Apple has no real right to claim ownership of that Software (They most certainly didn't invent it!) and Doing so Violates their GNU/License!

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Open source licensing only applies to the open source components that Apple utilizes, not the Software as a whole. I don't think Apple is claiming patents on anything that was developed in an open source project.

When HTC's lawyers & Apples lawyers have finished with each other, I hope they've braced themselves for the fallout that will follow when the Free Software Foundations lawyers get involved to revoke their License thereby removing things like the X11 Windows manager from their devices altogether!

The FSF cannot revoke licenses. The have no control over open source projects. Changes can be made to licensing going forward, but Apple could still maintain their projects under the old licensing if they wanted to.

 

[Core.Rot]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Open source licensing only applies to the open source components that Apple utilizes, not the Software as a whole. I don't think Apple is claiming patents on anything that was developed in an open source project.

iPhone OS comprises the operating system and technologies that you use to run applications natively on iPhone and iPod touch devices. It shares a common heritage and many underlying technologies with Mac OS X.

Mac OS X includes the latest technological advances from the open source BSD community. Originally developed at the University of California, Berkeley, the BSD distribution is the foundation of most UNIX implementations today.

Mac OS X is based largely on the FreeBSD distribution.

Thats the spiel from the apple site, which promotes open source, so are you saying apple can in one breath say open source is good but in the next breath sue HTC for using it?

 

[BaldiMac]

iPhone OS comprises the operating system and technologies that you use to run applications natively on iPhone and iPod touch devices. It shares a common heritage and many underlying technologies with Mac OS X.

Mac OS X includes the latest technological advances from the open source BSD community. Originally developed at the University of California, Berkeley, the BSD distribution is the foundation of most UNIX implementations today.

Mac OS X is based largely on the FreeBSD distribution.

Thats the spiel from the apple site, which promotes open source, so are you saying apple can in one breath say open source is good but in the next breath sue HTC for using it?

If you read my post that you responded to, you would see that I agreed that Apple uses open source components. It's common knowledge.

However, Apple is not suing HTC for using open source software. I'm not sure what you are arguing.

 

[Core.Rot]

Then what part of the software filed in their original complaint against HTC is considered to be an infringement of their product?

It's easy to see what's going on, they saw HTC & Android OS as a threat, so to slow down there competitor they throw together some bogus lawsuit about infringing their OS and their Hardware.

They probably bought the hardware from an inventor and it probably gets stuck together in some sweat shop in Taiwan!

Now HTC is counter suing, so glad I don't own either device and would never want one... There as bad as each other.. Oh and one of the Developers working on the OS in question, used to work for Apple.. Speaks volumes!

The FSF cannot revoke licenses. The have no control over open source projects. Changes can be made to licensing going forward, but Apple could still maintain their projects under the old licensing if they wanted to.

Pity, I would happily sign a petition to have that license removed and promote boycotting their products...

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

 

[BaldiMac]

Then what part of the software filed in their original complaint against HTC is considered to be an infringement of their product?

I'm trying hard to understand what you are trying to say, but I am at a loss. The complaint that Apple filed against HTC was in relation to 20 patents owned by Apple that they believe HTC has violated. These patents are Apple patents. Not software. Not open source. They are not implemented in open source components of the iPhone OS.

Pity, I would happily sign a petition to have that license removed and promote boycotting their products...

So, you don't believe that open source projects should be open source? If someone can revoke the license from someone who is not violating the license, then it defeats the whole point of an open source license.

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

What does this case have to do with DRM?