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HTML5 Continuing to Gain Ground With Yahoo! Mail for iPad, Vimeo Embedding

Rodimus Prime said:
Can you get it threw your head Flash does not have to loss for HTML5 to win.
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Yes, the prominence of Flash will decrease if HTML5 use is to increase.

Rodimus Prime said:
The biggest factor controlling HTML5 adaption is IE. IE8 supports some of the HTML5 API and IE9 is going to support it even more. The largest player in the market controls the most.
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This is a true statement. Nonetheless, Google's embracing of Flash for Android is clearly detrimental to the HTML5 push.

Rodimus Prime said:
Apple way of doing thing more just pissed off devs.
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Devs are always pissed off when they have to move to something new.


Rodimus Prime said:
Google way is more saying use the best tools for the job.
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No, Google is saying they are fine with Adobe's proprietary Web as long as it gets them more Android customers and helps them sell more advertising.

Rodimus Prime said:
They know you can not just drop flash and expect everyone to jump over.
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Of course they could. If there was no viable Flash on any mobile device you don't think devs would start creating more open-standards-focused content?

Rodimus Prime said:
You seem to repeat the crap Apple spits out. If Apple says it is bad then it is Bad. Apple seems to believe that it can tell people what is best for them.
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Or coincidentally I just happen to agree with Apple on this particular subject.

Proprietary Web standards controlled by a single corporation = a really bad idea. Period.

Rodimus Prime said:
Of course Apple is the same one refusing to support a free standard for video on the web using the convoluted patent encumbered h.264.
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I'm not arguing about h.264, nor am I saying Apple is innocent when it comes to pushing proprietary standards, as they most certainly are not.

That doesn't make them wrong for wanting to end the proprietary Flash Web.

Rodimus Prime said:
There is a reason why Safari is still at around 5% market share and never really has crossed that point even though it is on Windows. It is because it is a really crappy browser. it sucks on windows. Chrome, Firefox and IE are all better. On Macs I see Chrome and Firefox being very popular.
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Bzzt. IE is a "really crappy browser." Yet everyone uses it. Hence market adoption of a browser is not directly related to the quality of that browser. Your argument here does not stand up to reality.
 
LagunaSol said:
Bzzt. IE is a "really crappy browser." Yet everyone uses it. Hence market adoption of a browser is not directly related to the quality of that browser. Your argument here does not stand up to reality.
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On windows IE is a better browser than Safari. Hate to break it to you but Safari is crap on windows.

On my windows computer my primary browsers are Firefox and Chrome. I use IE when something on a web site refuses to work in Firefox threw IE tab. I will use IE long before I will use safari. Safari on windows is crap. Of the majors windows broswers out there Safari is the worse. Proof of that is the fact that it market share is still well sitting around 5%. Chrome passed it, FF is by far better.

I think it is funny a big player like Apple release Safari for windows you would think that it would take off and get on par with something like Firefox and yet it gain no market share. Chrome is released on windows and it blows past Safari because it is a a better browser.

IE is a better browser than windows that Safari plan and simple.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
On windows IE is a better browser than Safari. Hate to break it to you but Safari is crap on windows.
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Safari has nothing to do with my point. Firefox on Windows is far better than IE. Yet IE still dominates market share. Why? Surely people would choose what's "best," right?

Wrong.
 
LagunaSol said:
As I clearly stated previously, devs and users will not necessarily choose "whichever is best." They will choose whichever is more convenient.
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If HTML5 is not more convenient to use than Flash, than it has failed and needs to die. Sorry you don't like it, but thems the breaks kiddo.

Again, you've been debunked on the rest and you're wrong. Google does more for HTML5 than Apple, including paying the people that are editing the specification itself.
 
LagunaSol said:
Safari has nothing to do with my point. Firefox on Windows is far better than IE. Yet IE still dominates market share. Why? Surely people would choose what's "best," right?

Wrong.
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You exact words were calling IE crap. I never debated that. I just said it was better than Safari. I pointed out proof of that of how Safari Market share has never really grown since going out on Windows.

Chrome took off and passed it.

On the Non-IE browsers on windows market share is a good way to compare them or look at how quickly they grow.
I like FF and chrome and IE is used only if the site is poorly coded as IE only.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
You exact words were calling IE crap.
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And what is crap about IE exactly ? Its standard support ? That's meaningless to consumers or IT staff. They just care about the page being displayed.

When at work, I'm forced to use IE6. Why ? Well because Firefox doesn't work at all on many of our vendor backed web applications. Things we paid a lot of money for. Things that would cost a lot of money to replace. For what exactly ... ? When the application has outlived its purpose, it will get replaced.

For now, Firefox is crap, it would cost us money whereas IE6 doesn't. The day IE6 costs us money, it will be crap.

So you can say Firefox is better than IE all you want, it's not. Not for corporate businesses. At home I use Firefox or Chrome. None are really better than the other, and for the average consumer, probably not any better than IE8. Seriously, what does Firefox offer to consumers that IE8 doesn't ? Again standard support ? Consumers don't give a crap unless the page doesn't render properly.
 
LagunaSol said:
Sorry. I won't get caught in a dead-end debate with those two again. But I'm sure there are others that will come along. :(
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Regretfully my debating skills aren't up to par. Much less so for a subject I know little about.

I can however at least make the situation better for the rest of us.
 
KnightWRX said:
And what is crap about IE exactly ? Its standard support ? That's meaningless to consumers or IT staff. They just care about the page being displayed.

When at work, I'm forced to use IE6. Why ? Well because Firefox doesn't work at all on many of our vendor backed web applications. Things we paid a lot of money for. Things that would cost a lot of money to replace. For what exactly ... ? When the application has outlived its purpose, it will get replaced.

For now, Firefox is crap, it would cost us money whereas IE6 doesn't. The day IE6 costs us money, it will be crap.

So you can say Firefox is better than IE all you want, it's not. Not for corporate businesses. At home I use Firefox or Chrome. None are really better than the other, and for the average consumer, probably not any better than IE8. Seriously, what does Firefox offer to consumers that IE8 doesn't ? Again standard support ? Consumers don't give a crap unless the page doesn't render properly.

.
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In standard support yes. IE is becoming more standard compliant over time and it is causing problems. I know schools made poor choose of setting stuff up as IE6 only. Now that IE6 support is being dropped and it WILL not run on windows 7 they are having really issues because IE 7 and 8 by far more standard complaint and they dropped some of the security issues from IE6.

As for Firefox and Chrome. I like the interface better and add ons I can add. I have a much easier time blocking things i do not like on FF. My dad likes Chrome and that is his choice of browser. My mother likes FF. Neither are computer people.

I am glad FF got such real market share because it is forcing companies to be more standard complaint in their code.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
In standard support yes. IE is becoming more standard compliant over time and it is causing problems. I know schools made poor choose of setting stuff up as IE6 only. Now that IE6 support is being dropped and it WILL not run on windows 7 they are having really issues because IE 7 and 8 by far more standard complaint and they dropped some of the security issues from IE6.

As for Firefox and Chrome. I like the interface better and add ons I can add. I have a much easier time blocking things i do not like on FF. My dad likes Chrome and that is his choice of browser. My mother likes FF. Neither are computer people.

I am glad FF got such real market share because it is forcing companies to be more standard complaint in their code.
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Exactly. IE6 was not replaced earlier because other browsers did not create any added value earlier. For HTML5 to succeed, Flash doesn't need to die, just like for Firefox to succeed, IE6 didn't need to die. All that was needed was added value to be provided so that people would see an incentive to move over.

Developers don't like moving to something new ? No one does if there's no incentive. On the contrary though, provide good enough incentive, and you can't pay people to stay with the old stuff.
 
Eidorian said:
Regretfully my debating skills aren't up to par. Much less so for a subject I know little about.

I can however at least make the situation better for the rest of us.
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When people start demanding "What's wrong with IE?" in a discussion thread, you know it's time to head for the exit. ;)
 
KnightWRX said:
Exactly. IE6 was not replaced earlier because other browsers did not create any added value earlier. For HTML5 to succeed, Flash doesn't need to die, just like for Firefox to succeed, IE6 didn't need to die. All that was needed was added value to be provided so that people would see an incentive to move over.

Developers don't like moving to something new ? No one does if there's no incentive. On the contrary though, provide good enough incentive, and you can't pay people to stay with the old stuff.
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I know IE6 is being killed by MS because of its security problems. That is why Vista can not run it nor can windows 7. They are forcing people to upgrade to a better browser. Sadly they need that security to be fix so it is closed those holes.

For long term use coding IE6 only was a VERY VERY poor choice for any one to go. MS understand that for long term use they need people go standard complaint and at least be more flexable to upgrade. IE6 only set up just is not very upgradable and I know some universities are paying the price for going against the recommendations of their own IT guys telling them to go a slightly more expensive but better and cheaper long term.

Now the school is having to fork out more money since they are being force to upgrade yet again and move everything AGAIN over to a new system.

IE6 just has so many issues. I know people who like the interface of IE7 and 8. They have and do use Firefox and make a point to make sure everything works great on the other browsers but when given a choice of what to use they use IE.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
I know IE6 is being killed by MS because of its security problems. That is why Vista can not run it nor can windows 7. They are forcing people to upgrade to a better browser. Sadly they need that security to be fix so it is closed those holes.

For long term use coding IE6 only was a VERY VERY poor choice for any one to go. MS understand that for long term use they need people go standard complaint and at least be more flexable to upgrade. IE6 only set up just is not very upgradable and I know some universities are paying the price for going against the recommendations of their own IT guys telling them to go a slightly more expensive but better and cheaper long term.

Now the school is having to fork out more money since they are being force to upgrade yet again and move everything AGAIN over to a new system.

IE6 just has so many issues. I know people who like the interface of IE7 and 8. They have and do use Firefox and make a point to make sure everything works great on the other browsers but when given a choice of what to use they use IE.
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We are currently going through an IE6-IE8 migration for intranet tools. Its a tough transition for us mostly because vendors still don't see any reason to move on from IE6 (for an intranet environment.)


jav6454 said:
Not to pick on you or anything. But this is an universal truth and the main reason why many of us disagree in this wide open world:

Your tastes < My tastes
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Exactly. Part of the problem here too is if your taste is 100% Apple you are an fillintheblankfanboy.
 
LagunaSol said:
When people start demanding "What's wrong with IE?" in a discussion thread, you know it's time to head for the exit. ;)
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Perhaps if they say "IE4", you're right. IE8 or the coming IE9 are much better.


Mattie Num Nums said:
We are currently going through an IE6-IE8 migration for intranet tools. Its a tough transition for us mostly because vendors still don't see any reason to move on from IE6 (for an intranet environment).
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Yes, for them there's "nothing wrong with IE6".
 
I believe that HTML 5 will continue to grow and more and more sites will incorporate it mainly because of Apple's products. The site owners probably own's one of Apple's products and will also want a HTML 5 site. So I see HTML 5 over coming Flash in the future. I know what Steve Jobs means about Flash My Browser crashes from time to time because of Flash sites.
 
smithjohnson159 said:
I believe that HTML 5 will continue to grow and more and more sites will incorporate it mainly because of Apple's products. The site owners probably own's one of Apple's products and will also want a HTML 5 site. So I see HTML 5 over coming Flash in the future. I know what Steve Jobs means about Flash My Browser crashes from time to time because of Flash sites.
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I agree. I am glad Steve keeps Flash off the iPhones and iPads. I use "ClicktoFlash" on Safari and it never crashes. Gee I wonder why.

http://clicktoflash.com/
 
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