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It's not Huawei's fault. Nobody has stopped companies to manufacture phones and do research on processor technology. Chinese companies are ahead in this regard.

Chinese phones offer China specific features to their phone. For example, you don't need a smart card to use in subway/metro, just touch your Chinese phone with NFC at turnstile. And Chinese developers have apps like WeChat, Alipay and many more apps which are impossible to defeat by any company in the world(in China).

One more big reason to worry for Apple is the removal of VPN apps from Chinese App Store. It will deter Chinese people to buy iPhone. Of course there are few App Stores which can side load iOS apps in iPhone, but majority of people wants to get from Apple App Store which is not possible now. Not to mention premium build quality of Chinese phones with less cost.
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And what happens if one brand or another gets caught in a problem like defective exploding batteries (happened with Samsung, can happen with anyone), how much phones Apple will need to replace, and Huawei, do they have money for that liability?

Huawei is owned by Chinese Govt. as with most companies in China. They have plenty of money for liabilities.
 
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What the channel changes also helpfully tell us, is when retailers have ordered too many for current demand. Or been nudged into doing :)

Quite often when Jobs or Cook needed a numbers boost, suddenly that quarter had unexpectedly good sales. But then the next quarter would usually have a large increase in channel inventory, because the stores overbought. Didn't matter, because by then the necessary great sale headlines were past.

The key point as far as stores go, is that they will not continue buying something that won't sell. Which is as true for other phones as it is for iPhones. That's why it's silly for people to claim that stores keep buying tens of millions of say, Samsung phones, just to put them on a warehouse shelf without sales.



I lost track a few years ago, but yeah it was headed to by way past 16 million by now.

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What’s the source on the graph? As far as I know Apple don’t release channel vs sold information.
 
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Apple is about its ecosystem. The chinese are not bought into its ecosystem and therefore Apple will struggle in China. In addition to that, a removal of VPN software from the App Store and no other way to use VPNs in China, Apple's share in China will plummet.

Android is a better OS for a market like China where hacking the phone to get past censorship is heavily valued. Apple declining in China and being fairly low in India is a long term problem for Apple. The US has 360MM people, which is a small number compared to Asia as a whole and China, which houses 1/5 of the entire Earth's population and India that has 1/6 of the world's population. Together, those two countries alone account for nearly 1/3 of the human race.
 
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In the US, I virtually know no one who uses Whatsapp. iMessage messages + regular sms messages (which are free) both with the pre-installed messages app are king here.

I know of nobody here in mexico that uses anything other than whatsapp. You can even get unlimited whatsapp, facebook, etc. for 4 bucks us a month.
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It sounds like you haven't traveled anywhere before.

Look at the Huawei market share in Europe, Latin America, and SE Asia.

There's a reason why Huawei is ranked higher than Tesla in Interbrand's Top 100 Global Brands.
Huawei is huge here in mexico and not just phones.
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Market share is a vanity metric. Profit share is a much more telling metric for business success.
People bragging about paying obscene markups is even more telling.
 
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Well, before discussing the quality, my father’s 2-year old Huawei P8 is dead (can’t turn on) while a the same time my iPhone 6s Plus still holds (around 1 year).
If they ever want to fix this software quality issue, I will stay tuned.
 
Well, yes. Duh :rolleyes:

"Shipped vs sold" is a misleading internet meme mostly found on Apple forums. People mistakenly think that "sold" means "sold to end users", for one thing.

It all got started with a really poorly thought out (or intentionally misleading) article about the first Apple-Samsung trial in California. In the trial, Samsung had to report the number of possibly infringing tablets. The number they gave was far lower than their reported sales, and some ignorant blogger saw that and made up the whole "shipped vs sold" meme.

What that writer ignored, was that 1) the trial number was only about possibly infringing tablets, which meant US only sales of certain tablets during a certain period, 2) he was comparing that to Samsung's reported worldwide sales, of which at that time US sales were only around 5%, IIRC.
shipped vs sold has been an internet thing since at least the xbox 360 vs ps3 fanboy wars.
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Interesting how besides Apple and Samsung all well known brands just disappear in "Others".
The Chinese are overtaking the industry without most western customers even noticing.
Even the non-chinese brands are manufactured in China.

As a market develops they can often times tend toward monopolies. In the cell phone industry we really only have company like Apple or Samsung innovating. Other companies follow their leads and copy said innovation. So it's not exactly surprising that the best copy cat company will push the rest into others and eventually out of the market.
 
Dang, that phone looks a lot like an iPhone 6. And I know Huawei is a repeat offender in terms of copying.
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In the US, I virtually know no one who uses Whatsapp. iMessage messages + regular sms messages (which are free) both with the pre-installed messages app are king here.
In the US, I know virtually nobody who uses iMessage except in my family. Facebook Messenger, which is free and makes it easy to find people, is king here.
 
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In Australia I virtually know no one who uses Facetime or iMessage, even though Facetime is synonymous to video chat.
Whatsapp is king here. Makes sense, as it's spread across multiple devices (including desktops via your phone).

Yet in my Australian bubble hardly anyone uses Whatsapp, everyone uses imessage and facebook messenger! I rarely see people using android.

This graph shows Whatsapp to be relatively small in Australia, 19% of the population uses it, definitely not king:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/291540/mobile-internet-user-whatsapp/
 
Huawei sells over 30 different smartphone models... mostly low-cost models... and are sold primarily in the most populous country in the world, China.

cO2r8nE.jpg


I have no doubt that Huawei can move a lot of units.

Though I'm not exactly sure Apple has anything to worry about... even if Huewei takes the #2 spot.

Huawei sells mostly inexpensive Android phones... while Apple sells rather expensive iOS phones. The only thing they have in common is they show up on these lists every 3 months.

And I guess we're ignoring that Samsung already sells more units than Apple? For how many years now? Yet the world still turns.

Manufacturer rankings look good on a chart... but I'm not seeing the value here.
 
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I'll agree on Facetime, but everyone I know with an iPhone uses iMessage. I don't use Whatsapp, and don't know anyone that does. That's not to say it isn't popular here. I don't think it matters as much these days though compared to when Whatsapp first launched, as most plans now offer unlimited SMS anyway.

I do know one person that uses Facetime for viewing properties he's interested in investing in that are in other states. he finds it's very useful for that.

Im in NZ. My current app list for messaging includes imessage, whatsapp, viber, two forms of skype (normal and business), messenger, hangouts and wechat. Generally whatsapp i used wtih SEA, wechat is obviously china, messenger is quite a few in the US, skype has its own list, viber is europeans mainly and messenger is mainly family.

I kept having issues with imessage so i gave up on it for some time as it was a pain in the neck
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People bragging about paying obscene markups is even more telling.

Man, i paid the highest margin in the business to apple. I am sooo smart.
 
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Apple should do something about the iPhone price in India. As China share is on decline, Apple should look to India as an emerging market. If Apple can tap the market share in India, it will be huge.
 
It's not Huawei's fault. Nobody has stopped companies to manufacture phones and do research on processor technology. Chinese companies are ahead in this regard.

Chinese phones offer China specific features to their phone. For example, you don't need a smart card to use in subway/metro, just touch your Chinese phone with NFC at turnstile. And Chinese developers have apps like WeChat, Alipay and many more apps which are impossible to defeat by any company in the world(in China).

One more big reason to worry for Apple is the removal of VPN apps from Chinese App Store. It will deter Chinese people to buy iPhone. Of course there are few App Stores which can side load iOS apps in iPhone, but majority of people wants to get from Apple App Store which is not possible now. Not to mention premium build quality of Chinese phones with less cost.
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Huawei is owned by Chinese Govt. as with most companies in China. They have plenty of money for liabilities.
Keep in mind that china's tech and money came from the west in a deal that they would allow global model be set up. Communism/Capitalism/Slaves with a sugar coating to sell the model to the world. Not long ago china was stuck in the bronze age begging us to let them out.
 
Why would or should Apple be looking over their shoulders? That sounds like marketing gibberish where someone is applying that someone that is doing better than themselves is in a much tighter spot than they really are so to make themselves look in a better light than what really is the case.

Sure, if Apple sold 100% of the phones in the world it would be great for them. But Apple is still making records on their iPhone's every quarter. The sales doesn't seem to be slowing down, while their profits seems to keep increasing. Why should they feel nervous? It seems like this is bigger issue for other Android manufactures as they have to grab sales from somewhere and they don't seem to be grabbing that many iPhone customers as Apple is still going strong despite Huawei having great increases in sales.

Sales will slow down just like they have with the iPad.

Arrogance will catch up with,Apple. Look what happened to Sony Nokia they were the top for TV's and Phones.

It is going to happen with Apple it will just take time.

When you are at the top you have to worry about the competition eating your much.
 
There is nothing special about any Android brand that might retain repeat customers.
I am an iPhone user, but I know of lots of people who love their Samsungs.
Also the pixel has a better camera than the iPhone.
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Huawei makes $150 to $350 unlocked models. If Apple came out with $150 to $300 iPhone models with big screens but low end features as those Android models. They would crush the low end Android market. They don't because they would also hurt sales of high end models.

I don't think Apple knows how to make a low cost device.
 
I'll agree on Facetime, but everyone I know with an iPhone uses iMessage. I don't use Whatsapp, and don't know anyone that does. That's not to say it isn't popular here. I don't think it matters as much these days though compared to when Whatsapp first launched, as most plans now offer unlimited SMS anyway.

Texts are pretty much free for carriers so most plans are generous with those. Not so much for MMS and that is where Whatsapp et al shine. iMessage limits you to iPhone owners, which isn't everyone.
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I don't think Apple knows how to make a low cost device.

Oh, Apple knows all right. It just doesn't know how to charge appropriately for it.
 
ANYONE who gets a Android OS...I don't care who the maker is....is a FOOL! Apple is the only phone that has a secure OS.....you'd think that'd be an important distinction if you had any smarts!
Do you ever read what you post before insulting millions of people?
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I don't think Apple is in the process of removing VPN Apps voluntarily.
Apple makes the choice that the only way to get an app on the iPhone is through the App store. If the Chinese had the option to load apps from anywhere they would still be able to load VPN apps.
 
Apple should do something about the iPhone price in India. As China share is on decline, Apple should look to India as an emerging market. If Apple can tap the market share in India, it will be huge.

Has anyone considered the possibility that people in china are holding out for the next major iPhone refresh, hence falling sales?
 
And yet still getting blown out in 1v1 with iPhone. You can't compare a bunch of cheap android phones to one iPhone. Show me one singular phone from any maker that even approaches iPhone sales... then I'll care.
 
Not so much for MMS and that is where Whatsapp et al shine. iMessage limits you to iPhone owners, which isn't everyone.

Fair point for those with small data plans when it comes to MMS. Come to think of it, I did sign up for Whatsapp when it was new, but didn’t really use it. Might check it out again.
 
What the channel changes also helpfully tell us, is when retailers have ordered too many for current demand. Or been nudged into doing :)

Quite often when Jobs or Cook needed a numbers boost, suddenly that quarter had unexpectedly good sales. But then the next quarter would usually have a large increase in channel inventory, because the stores overbought. Didn't matter, because by then the necessary great sale headlines were past.

The key point as far as stores go, is that they will not continue buying something that won't sell. Which is as true for other phones as it is for iPhones. That's why it's silly for people to claim that stores keep buying tens of millions of say, Samsung phones, just to put them on a warehouse shelf without sales.

When it comes to channel inventory changes for iPhone or iPad (Apple hasn't been reporting changes for Mac), for the most part they've been about what we'd expect based on, e.g., new product releases and seasonal sales trends. They typically draw down channel inventory when sales are slower (recently, typically in the 2nd and 3rd fiscal quarters) and build it when sales are faster and when they're releasing new products (recently, typically in the 4th and 1st fiscal quarters). In earlier years, when sales growth in general was greater, they built inventory in most quarters trying to catch up with increasing demand. In recent years, when iPad sales have been declining, they've been drawing down iPad inventory in most quarters.

But there haven't really been any out of whack channel inventory changes. Over the last 5 years, the largest (quarterly) channel inventory builds for iPhone were still less than a week's worth of supply and left channel inventory either below or at the low end of Apple's target range (which range they've been transparent about, it isn't something they pulled out when they needed an excuse to build channel inventory). So that could hardly be considered channel stuffing. It's consistent with how Apple has long said it tries to operate and responsive to fluctuations in the pace of sales.

The only quarter I can recall that someone might question would be Q1 2016. That was the first full quarter for the 6S models and Apple built channel inventory 3.3 million units to put it just ahead of its (sell-in) unit number from the year ago quarter. But even that build, which was less than a week's worth of supply, just barely got Apple into its target range. It was larger than the year ago build (i.e. shrink) by 3.5 million units, but the year before had seen the 6 models creating extraordinary (and perhaps somewhat unexpected) demand which Apple had a tougher time keeping up with. Had Apple been able to build inventory in that previous quarter I suspect it would have.

I lost track a few years ago, but yeah it was headed to by way past 16 million by now.

View attachment 711275

That graph (as you suggest) stops quite a while ago. iPhone channel inventory accelerated after that, being well above that trend line and eventually getting above 20 million units. It's at a seasonal low point now.

iPad channel inventory peaked around 6 million units, but it's been trending down for over 3 years to under 3 million units as of the end of the March quarter. I would note that Apple didn't tell us the 3rd quarter channel inventory change for iPad in Tuesday's conference call. I didn't hear it mentioned when I listened to the call so I searched the transcript and couldn't find a number given. That's unusual, it's the first time Apple hasn't given us either a channel inventory or a channel inventory change for iPad. (I keep a spreadsheet with such information.)

That makes me wonder whether Apple had a significant iPad channel inventory build in this last quarter which helped with that big iPad unit number. Apple did say in the call that it exited the quarter in its target range for iPad channel inventory. Unless iPad sales dropped off significantly toward the end of the last quarter or beginning of this quarter (or Apple expected them to), that - Apple being in its target range - also suggests a large channel inventory build in the previous quarter. At a 875,000 iPads per week sales pace (which was the average sell-in for last quarter), Apple would have had to build inventory by over 1.6 million units to reach the bottom of its target range. Even at 700,000 iPads per week it would have had to build inventory by 0.8 million units. And for those keeping track, a 1 million plus channel inventory build (in this past quarter) would mean that iPad's sell-through was actually less than it was in the year ago quarter.
 
Fair point for those with small data plans when it comes to MMS. Come to think of it, I did sign up for Whatsapp when it was new, but didn’t really use it. Might check it out again.
I have a large data plan but even so, MMS are not included. Was the same when I was on unlimited everything. I am not in Australia so YMMV as ever.
 
Apple is living in a bubble if they think serious problems are not on the horizon. With numbers like these expect the bottom to drop out of sales soon. Like Blackberry once a critical mass is lost sales drop very quickly.
 
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