I can't take it anymore, I'm jumping ship.

[Queen6]

Funny how long time Apple users are bailing out huh? I wonder why? The defenders of Apple resort to distorted 'facts' and twisting the words of others...

Meh, I am digging my new Surface Book and for me --> it's bye-bye Apple! Just like many others have bailed, so have I...

#nomyApple

Problem with some is they only have a singular train of thought and in many respects an exercise in futility to enter into discussion with them. For any and every argument they will counter, demanding proof, if not they will then look to discredit the member concerned or the source of data. The agenda is clear & obvious to eradicate any negative comment regarding Apple's latest & greatest, for love or money, who knows...

"Magically" on the release of the new MBP their numbers have multiplied significantly as has their propensity to attack, inversely over in the Mac Mini the usual calm remains with many longterm users expressing their concerns & malcontent at Apple's near abandonment.

I don't mind those who have strong opinion, I do mind those that purposely look to shutdown others as they are most deliberately doing here. If a member has a differing opinion he/she is fully entitled and should be allowed to voice the same, expressing their concerns without their posts being broken down and picked apart piece by piece in an attempt to force a differing opinion, and for who? Certainly not the originator, more the audience methinks. The new MBP fails to work for my needs on several levels with over 20 years with Apple, yet "others" seemingly know more about my usage & workflow.

If the new 2016 MBP was the better solution I would own both 13" & 15" as I have done previously with other iterations of the MBP, sadly it doesn't, nor I am I constrained to macOS. Microsoft's Surface Book has exceeded my expectations and given me further confidence in the brand, while Apple has simply disappointed.

As some can attest my journey to the Surface Book took over a year, discussing with forum members, owners and even retailers at a higher level in order to fully understand the positives & negatives of switching a primary system to a differing OS and hardware provider. For me my computers are a source of revenue, a tool to get the job done. As with all who have choice, I will always defer to the "best tool for the job"

Nor am I alone with such concerns, already there is indication that Apple will respond in 2017 to it's professional audience with a more potent MBP, as for a significant number the 2016 MBP is not what they wanted or asked for...


Q-6

 

[Sanpete]

Problem with some is they only have a singular train of thought and in many respects an exercise in futility to enter into discussion with them. For any and every argument they will counter, demanding proof, if not they will then look to discredit the member concerned or the source of data. The agenda is clear & obvious to eradicate any negative comment regarding Apple's latest & greatest, for love or money, who knows...

"Magically" on the release of the new MBP their numbers have multiplied significantly as has their propensity to attack, inversely over in the Mac Mini the usual calm remains with many longterm users expressing their concerns & malcontent at Apple's near abandonment.

I don't mind those who have strong opinion, I do mind those that purposely look to shutdown others as they are most deliberately doing here. If a member has a differing opinion he/she is fully entitled and should be allowed to voice the same, expressing their concerns without their posts being broken down and picked apart piece by piece in an attempt to force a differing opinion, and for who? Certainly not the originator, more the audience methinks. The new MBP fails to work for my needs on several levels with over 20 years with Apple, yet "others" seemingly know more about my usage & workflow.

If the new 2016 MBP was the better solution I would own both 13" & 15" as I have done previously with other iterations of the MBP, sadly it doesn't, nor I am I constrained to macOS. Microsoft's Surface Book has exceeded my expectations and given me further confidence in the brand, while Apple has simply disappointed.

As some can attest my journey to the Surface Book took over a year, discussing with forum members, owners and even retailers at a higher level in order to fully understand the positives & negatives of switching a primary system to a differing OS and hardware provider. For me my computers are a source of revenue, a tool to get the job done. As with all who have choice, I will always defer to the "best tool for the job"

Nor am I alone with such concerns, already there is indication that Apple will respond in 2017 to it's professional audience with a more potent MBP, as for a significant number the 2016 MBP is not what they wanted or asked for...


Q-6

Incredible. You make flatly false claims, are called on it, and then complain that people with an agenda are trying to shut you down. And you just keep doing it, over and over and over. But you have no agenda, right, no singular train of thought, etc? You don't try to discredit those you disagree with by claiming they blindly defend Apple at all costs, by claiming they want to shut down all other views, etc, right? Just amazing.

No one is trying to shut you down. Your input is valuable and valued. If you make false or unfounded claims, though, you should expect to be called on it. You should be glad to be corrected, if you care about facts. Again, a little reflection would do you good. The unintended irony is at 100%.

 

[raqball]

Problem with some is they only have a singular train of thought and in many respects an exercise in futility to enter into discussion with them. For any and every argument they will counter, demanding proof, if not they will then look to discredit the member concerned or the source of data. The agenda is clear & obvious to eradicate any negative comment regarding Apple's latest & greatest, for love or money, who knows...

"Magically" on the release of the new MBP their numbers have multiplied significantly as has their propensity to attack, inversely over in the Mac Mini the usual calm remains with many longterm users expressing their concerns & malcontent at Apple's near abandonment.

I don't mind those who have strong opinion, I do mind those that purposely look to shutdown others as they are most deliberately doing here. If a member has a differing opinion he/she is fully entitled and should be allowed to voice the same, expressing their concerns without their posts being broken down and picked apart piece by piece in an attempt to force a differing opinion, and for who? Certainly not the originator, more the audience methinks. The new MBP fails to work for my needs on several levels with over 20 years with Apple, yet "others" seemingly know more about my usage & workflow.

If the new 2016 MBP was the better solution I would own both 13" & 15" as I have done previously with other iterations of the MBP, sadly it doesn't, nor I am I constrained to macOS. Microsoft's Surface Book has exceeded my expectations and given me further confidence in the brand, while Apple has simply disappointed.

As some can attest my journey to the Surface Book took over a year, discussing with forum members, owners and even retailers at a higher level in order to fully understand the positives & negatives of switching a primary system to a differing OS and hardware provider. For me my computers are a source of revenue, a tool to get the job done. As with all who have choice, I will always defer to the "best tool for the job"

Nor am I alone with such concerns, already there is indication that Apple will respond in 2017 to it's professional audience with a more potent MBP, as for a significant number the 2016 MBP is not what they wanted or asked for...


Q-6

I couldn't agree more.. What's funny, or sad depending on how you look at it, is that a few years ago the Apple hardcore defenders said large phones were a joke. They laughed at them and put down anyone who liked them. Then Apple magically invented and innovated (sarcasm intended) the Plus phones and they instantly became the greatest thing since sliced bread..

Additionally, just a few months ago they praised the previous MacBook keyboard and trackpad. Now in an attempt to defend the new machines and their purchasing decision, they call the previous keyboard spongy and garbage..

It really makes your head spin.. Speaking of spin, it's what they do now as they can't defend the new machines on their merits.

Now in the defense of the many rational Apple lovers here (and there are plenty) the overzealous defenders realistically only amount to about 3 or 4 users but they post and attack non stop in every thread that says anything bad about the new machines..

 

[0989383]

The 2006 MacBook Pro and white MacBook still have superior build quality to the likes of the Dell XPS of today. The Dell, at best, has the same quality of key strength and fit/finish of those decade old Apple laptops. Windows is a bit shiner too, but what actual upgrades does it have? Apple's OSX has had a healthy balance of feature upgrades as well as under the hood performance upgrades.. Windows has some cool new features.. but it still gets clogged up, the DLL Hell rant by Apple still applies LOL.

Windows, to me, is like the interface in your cars multimedia system, sure, you see they tried to keep it fresh and tried to make it intuitive, and yeah, you don't regret getting it because its there to do a job. You use it in the car (or Windows, say, at work) and its pleasant most of the time. But to be honest, it reminds my of why I have my Mac at home when the programmes freeze and turn white etc.

I wish I could afford a new MB or MBP. When the Air is dropped, it'll be a £1,000+ option and sadly, I think that rules out many of the hardcore Apple fans who want a MacBook/Pro but won't be able to afford it. The iPad Pro isn't just there yet.

 

[raqball]

All I can report on is based on my personal usage... I've had the Surface Book for 4 days now and what I can tell you is that my 2016 nonTB MacBook Pro had more issues after 4 days than I have seen on the SB.

As a matter of fact, so far I've not had a single glitch, blip or bump with the SB.. None, not a one... My MacBook Pro after 4 days of use? GPU glitches, battery life issues, beach ball spinning from hell and a few others minor things I am sure I am forgetting..

My Windows experience thus far has been much more pleasant than my new MacOS was..

 

[Sanpete]

It really makes your head spin.. Speaking of spin, it's what they do now as they can't defend the new machines on their merits.

Your head is spinning because you don't listen and you often jump to wildly silly conclusions. You see people defended the old trackpad, and now some people like the new one better. There isn't the slightest contradiction there. Obviously, to anyone paying attention, the new machines are being defended on their merits. With facts. Which have yet to be countered by you.

 

[raqball]

Your head is spinning because you don't listen and you often jump to wildly silly conclusions. You see people defended the old trackpad, and now some people like the new one better. There isn't the slightest contradiction there. Obviously, to anyone paying attention, the new machines are being defended on their merits. With facts. Which have yet to be countered by you.

Considering most of your posts are propaganda and word twisting replies, I don't really pay them much attention or give them any merit that's in need of a proper response....

 

[0989383]

All I can report on is based on my personal usage... I've had the Surface Book for 4 days now and what I can tell you is that my 2016 nonTB MacBook Pro had more issues after 4 days than I have seen on the SB.

As a matter of fact, so far I've not had a single glitch, blip or bump with the SB.. None, not a one... My MacBook Pro after 4 days of use? GPU glitches, battery life issues, beach ball spinning from hell and a few others minor things I am sure I am forgetting..

My Windows experience thus far has been much more pleasant than my new MacOS was..

It takes longer than 4 days for Windows to clog up, maybe 4 months and it could be different! Who knows.

And also, it takes a while for Apple to fix these bugs and glitches from an all-new product. I've had HP laptops in the past with annoying glitches and problems and I am pretty sure HP were oblivious to and never patched / acknowledged. I'm sure Apple aren't silly enough to ignore users of their latest products for too long!

 

[raqball]

It takes longer than 4 days for Windows to clog up, maybe 4 months and it could be different! Who knows.

And also, it takes a while for Apple to fix these bugs and glitches from an all-new product. I've had HP laptops in the past with annoying glitches and problems and I am pretty sure HP were oblivious to and never patched / acknowledged. I'm sure Apple aren't silly enough to ignore users of their latest products for too long!

Time will tell that's for sure.... If it ends up being like that then you bet I'll be posting about it and telling people about it.. I owe zero loyalty to Apple or MS..

 

[Sanpete]

Considering most of your posts are propaganda and word twisting replies, I don't really pay them much attention or give them any merit that's in need of a proper response....

Which makes my point entirely! You haven't bothered to actually read or understood what I've said, and it's obvious in each reply. And you often do the same with others.

 

[raqball]

And you often do the same with others.

And now we've progressed attempting to discredit others via false info / statements....

I have 3 people on my block list, make that 4 after I hit the post button... Yes I do in fact ignore the users who repeatedly act in this manner...

 

[Sanpete]

And now we've progressed attempting to discredit others via false info / statements....

I have 3 people on my block list (make that 4) after I hit the post button... Yes I do in fact ignore the users who act in this manner...

And yet again you have made my point exactly! The inability to reflect is quite a barrier to communication.

 

[robotman2009]

Just wondering why you woukd come to a mac forum to ask about which windows computer you should get...your explanation doesnt seem too reasonable.

 

[0989383]

Just wondering why you woukd come to a mac forum to ask about which windows computer you should get...your explanation doesnt seem too reasonable.

Well, adequately named Robot Man, as mentioned in my original post, I am a Mac user at the minute. And with that, comes the high build quality and robustness of a Mac. So I was posting to ask other users, accustomed to the same Apple build quality what they feel the next best thing would be, bar Apple portables..

Between this community, many people use Windows PCs as well as Macs and many different models too - so we could have a discussion about which ones 'come close' if any.

That's why one comes to a Mac forum and asks about Windows..

 

[Pootmatoot]

(whoops, wrong thread)

 

[TrueBlou]

Just wondering why you woukd come to a mac forum to ask about which windows computer you should get...your explanation doesnt seem too reasonable.

To be fair many in the forums use a variety of devices. They may prefer Apple mobile and tablet devices, yet prefer a Windows computer.
Some of us also use both, maybe Mac or Windows for work and either/or for personal use and vice versa.
Many more may have made the switch from one to the other, I could go on. But the point is, just because this is an Apple first forum doesn't mean there are no Windows users here. There's actually quite a lot.

 

[Pootmatoot]

To be fair many in the forums use a variety of devices. They may prefer Apple mobile and tablet devices, yet prefer a Windows computer.
Some of us also use both, maybe Mac or Windows for work and either/or for personal use and vice versa.
Many more may have made the switch from one to the other, I could go on. But the point is, just because this is an Apple first forum doesn't mean there are no Windows users here. There's actually quite a lot.

Exactly. Practically no-one is tech brand monogamous.

 

[PhoneI]

All I can report on is based on my personal usage... I've had the Surface Book for 4 days now and what I can tell you is that my 2016 nonTB MacBook Pro had more issues after 4 days than I have seen on the SB.

As a matter of fact, so far I've not had a single glitch, blip or bump with the SB.. None, not a one... My MacBook Pro after 4 days of use? GPU glitches, battery life issues, beach ball spinning from hell and a few others minor things I am sure I am forgetting..

My Windows experience thus far has been much more pleasant than my new MacOS was..

Give it time. You will grow to hate it.

 

[iMi]

Give it time. You will grow to hate it.

I have the Surface Pro 4 and really like it. OS X or macOS is certainly better but not much better and frankly Windows is getting better with each passing day.

I think we're moving toward a complete OS parity in the not so distant future. There will come a time when Windows and macOS are basically the same as far as function, stability and performance are concerned. It will be a Coke vs. Pepsi conversation. Apple has to be aware of this... If they are not, they are in for a nasty surprise. PC makers are already building compatible quality machines. The ecosystem is truly all that separates Mac from PC and that will soon go away. Then what will be Apple's strategy? How will they differentiate? Or will they just release a bunch of new shiny Apple Watch bands? Probably...

Side bar here. I'm trying to listen to iTunes right now. This piece of **** software is complete garbage on Windows. Absolute abomination and since I have Apple Music, I'm stuck. So, I yank out the headphones and decide to just plug into the iPhone and listen from there, but there is no headphone jack!!!... Just kidding . Still rocking 6S... But really - iTunes is absolute garbage. Why does it even exist... I don't know.

 

[raqball]

^^^Yeah I agree with you.. I wonder how much time I am suppose to give it before I grow to hate it? I wish I had made the move earlier than I did to be honest.. The Surface Book flat out demolishes the MacBook Pro and it's not even close!

I think my Mac buying days are officially over unless Apple does a 180.. So far not a single issue to report on. By this time with my 2016 MacBook Pro I was already regretting my purchase.

MS has come a long way. They are now the old Apple and Apple is now the old MS...

Build quality on the SB is excellent and Win 10 has been rock solid!

I've purchased most of the comparable programs and apps I had on Mac in Windows and have not missed a beat yet..

Brief comparison from my point of view:

Screen:
2016 MacBook Pro = 10
Surface Book = 9

Keyboard:
2016 MacBook Pro = 9 (I liked it even though some don't)
Surface Book = 9

Trackpad:
2016 MacBook Pro = 9
Surface Book = 9

Sound:
2016 MacBook Pro = 9
Surface Book = 8

Operating System:
MacOS = 7 (had a ton of GPU glitches and spinning beach ball's)
Windows 10 = 9

Battery Life:
2016 MacBook Pro = 5-7 (I got 6 hours from the TB version when I had it and about 10 hours with the nTB)
Surface Book = 7 (I get about 10 hours in laptop mode and 4 hours in clipboard only mode)

Ports:
2016 MacBook Pro = 1 (USB C only and living that dongle life + no SD card)
Surface Book = 10 (all the ports you'd expect)

Other:
2016 MacBook Pro = 3 (it's thin and light)
Surface Book = 10 (2 in 1, removable clipboard, pen, touchscreen)

 

[SarcasticJoe]

I'm not all that sure if moving to another brand is going to solve any of the problems described...

Batteries tend to wear out pretty much completely before they reach 1000 load cycles so being able to get some battery life out of it after 1000 load cycles is a plus and not a negative. Apple is known for having the most durable batteries in the business so by moving to another brand you can really only do worse.

As for keyboards, Apple is known for being one of the better companies when it comes to keyboards. If your typing style involves such hammering of the keys that an Apple keyboard starts to lose keys, a keyboard from a competing brand will at best start losing keys at the same point, but most probably will start losing them even earlier. The only real change is that the availability of genuine replacement keyboards is probably going to be much better.

Finally, Apple makes chargers that generally work fine as long as you don't abuse them by doing stupid things like removing them by pulling the cord rather than grabbing the bit at the end. As long as you can do this the things will last as long as the machines themselves (given that you treat them halfway decently as well). I've had 3 different MBPs since 2007 and all of their chargers are still completely intact and so are the chargers of multiple family members I've taught how to handle the chargers properly who have all had multiple machines since 2009.

 

[maflynn]

Give it time. You will grow to hate it.

I've owned one since September and so far I've not grown to hate it

The one thing that seems to bother me the most is the screen size. Its one of those can't have your cake and eat it things. I want portability, but my old eyes could use a larger display. This would be happening if I had a 13" MBP, so its not a SB thing.

Back to the SB, its been rock solid, great battery life, more then enough performance for my needs, its a nice computer all around.

I'm not knocking the MBP, that's a great computer though I do question some of the design changes, but its still a great computer imo.

I also think the Dell is a good option - that's the one I was kicking around in getting to enjoy the 15" display. Its hard to justify spending almost 3k when you can get a 15" laptop that has great components for well under a thousand dollars then what the MBP is going for

 

[iMi]

The only issue I am having is just getting used to Windows 10. I had a work flow well established and knew all the nuances of the macOS. Every morning I would get to work and things would flow. I would only user the Surface when I had to use Windows and occasionally to browse the web, listen to music, etc.

Trying to work through a full day (third day now) entirely in Windows is a challenge. It's getting better. Cortana is actually a lot of help. I ask all the time how to do something and she either just tells me or pulls up a web search. Pretty handy.

The Surface did stumble yesterday but I think it's because I filled up the drive. Applications crashed, things became slow and the whole thing got hot. I had something like 200MB free on the hard drive. Cleaned it all up and it runs smoothly again. I guess that must have been the problem. Otherwise, it has been pretty solid.

 

[Eason85]

Well guys, my MacBook Pro is officially getting in the way of the tasks I need to get done.

macOS is brilliant, and I'm very much working well within the iPhone/Mac ecosystem, same with iCloud. The Mac is quick enough, and the screen / hardware - if it worked correctly - is still also excellent..

The Problem
Starting with the D key, the keys are rapidly getting weaker and falling off. I can type pretty damn fast and the keys are starting to suffer as a result. I replaced the keyboard with a 'genuine' and 'new' eBay part, which, in fact turned out to be not genuine and not new at all.. stopped working 2 minutes after installation intermittently. NO genuine or NEW Apple branded keyboards for the MBP are on eBay. I know this, because I sent a PM to every seller of one in the UK eBay listings and not one replied to confirm that they were - this was two weeks ago. So I will NOT find a good quality, replacement keyboard. I don't think a used one from a donor Mac will last much longer. More keys are starting to fall off, and whilst so far they'll go back on for a few days, its not going to fix itself. The charger is also on its way out, bit annoyed it's now £80 and not £60.. not like there was any new R&D costs needed in a product which has remained the same since 2006 (MagSafe 1 in my case). I love the charger on the Mac, and MagSafe, quite disappointed that the new MacBooks aren't going in this direction. The battery is also now well over 1000 charges and needs replaced. It won't even last for a 2 hour lecture running only Microsoft Word on the lowest brightness. Only Apple can really provide solutions to all of this, and at a high cost. They may also refuse, I am told, as I've upgraded to a 1TB SSHD and 8GB of RAM.. ridiculous IMO.

The Solution?
This is why I'm posting here. Not simply a rant. I'm getting rid of this Mac. It's 3 years old this month and whilst I'd happily use it for 5 it's going to cost a fair bit to keep running 'well' enough for prime, everyday use. It's also struggling to do things like Minecraft due to the 2012 hardware so there may be more reasons to move on. I can't afford a new MBP, I'll probably be graduated by the time I can now since Apple have priced the new models ridiculously high with no real reason.. I can't afford any new Mac really.

This Mac, at best, will fetch £500 on eBay due to the SSHD and RAM. So, after fees, £450. Add the £100 I'd have spent on a charger and stuff there's £550.

I can just about stretch to a Surface Pro due to its high end build quality, but only the Core M3 model which not many people deem fit for purpose. I know as a Mac user, paper spec lists don't mean much in the real world, but going for a non-Surface means I'm back to the 2008 and before build quality and workmanship of Windows laptops. Not a great place to be. Even at £1,000+ their Mac competitors are a joke in at least one way or another.

I can get 30% off at HP, and 10% off at Dell for a new laptop since I'm a student. So if those brands can offerr something good for £550, let me know!

Some things about Windows I'm not looking forward to are a fragmented ecosystem between Apple (for my iPhone) and Windows for the laptop. Then there's the washed out screen with poor colour depth. The sh*tty charger that isn't magnetic.. (though a new MBP has that these days too). Clunky, plastic casing with spontaneously placed ports - I SAW ONE WITH A VGA PORT WTF .. anyway, there will be compromises. THE MOUSE PAD MOSTLY WOULD BE HELL.

I was even contemplating going to the real dirt cheap likes of the Inspiron 15 and HP 250 etc, and saving some money for the future. Or using it to fit an SSD and tonnes of RAM to make those basic machines perform well. Not sure what this would mean in reality. Or perhaps a 'midrange' Windows laptop, offering an i5 or i7, 8/16 for RAM and a mediocre 15'6" screen and few other bad touches...

What do you recommend?
- Surface Pro with the M3
- Dirt cheap Windows PC, with SSD and RAM and pocket the rest
- Mid range, best I can afford Windows PC

and do you know of a £550 Windows laptop with a non crappy touch pad and decent battery?

A used ThinkPad on ebay! T-series s or X2_0 series

 

[Kcetech1]

A used ThinkPad on ebay! T-series s or X2_0 series

I was just thinking an x230 myself, I still run one as my main on the go abuse machine. ugly as sin, 12.5" mediocre screen, BUT 512GB SSD + 2Tb spinner, every damn port of the era, 16GB RAM and a Slice battery still giving me about 20 hours of battery, I do semi miss the 27 hour mark on it though. Still on a clean load of Windows 7 from 3 years ago totally untouched.

Sometimes O&U still serves a purpose.