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Now that's top-quality irony! A little reflection would do you good. I've given published facts, you've given nothing but refusal to accept facts, which you bolster with vapor evidence. What does that show about open-mindedness?

I don't need too, nor is there any requirement, you are simply looking from your own perspective, picking & choosing selectively, incapable of seeing or meeting the other side of the argument, therefore balanced discussion is impossible.

Um, again, that's opinion, just made up, clearly contrary to evidence. But you've shown evidence has no power in this for you.

Yet again I don't care, there is more than enough for the open minded to make their own informed decisions, after all everyone is flocking to Apple's desktop computing solution :rolleyes: Alternatively those who are "locked" into it will be paying more for less.

If you mean personal preferences differ, that's exactly what I've been very clearly saying to you. Again, that doesn't entitle you to just make stuff up.

No need to make anything up, it is what it is, if it works for you all power to you, equally if it works against my needs and others respect that fact. As a user & owner of Apple's computing solutions for over 20 years I find the current line up lacking. Opposed to attacking & defending, a wiser man might just consider one simple question "why" why change to the unknown, why opt for Microsoft over Apple. - Answer one is advancing, one is declining, Apple's focus is iToys, nor do I blame Apple as thats where the money is...

Q-6
 
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Opposed to attacking & defending, a wiser man might just consider one simple question "why" why change to the unknown, why opt for Microsoft over Apple. - Answer one is advancing, one is declining, Apple's focus is iToys, nor do I blame Apple as thats where the money is...

Q-6

Agree 100%..
 
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It's pointless to even have a discussion with you.. If you want to continue rationally then I'm all ears if not then I'm pretty much done responding to your ravenous postings...

The new Apple gear does NOT hold it's value like it use to. If you want to believe that it does then so be it but a quick search on used for sale sites will tell you a different story..

Take a look at this:

https://swappa.com/listing/QWI494/view

Brand spanking new with a battery count of 3.... $1169? WOW! Yeah that sure is holding it's value huh? LOL

Take out swappa fee, PayPal fee and shipping and the seller maybe got about $1100 (probably $1080 or so) from it...

Again, and this is very simple, if you want to know if it still holds its value better than others, you have to compare to others. The market may be soft right now across the board. And no, that's not "ravenous," or even raving.
 
I read through this whole stupid thread looking for a pic of the broken keyboard and was thoroughly disappointed...

Just another opinion-fest between Apple fans and... anti-Apple people? Whatever.

I'm a novelist, I write a LOT, and I type pretty fast. I've never broken a keyboard like the OP did, and that's on machines with really bad build quality.

FWIW, I've been using the 2016 MBP for writing, personal photo editing and some light video editing (I'm no pro there). The keyboard is kinda funky, but I'm getting used to it. Not quite as fast typing as with my Enermax Aurora Lite keyboard, but getting faster. It's the best build quality I've ever had in a laptop and yes, my favorite keyboard so far (15 years, 7 laptops). I don't see the keys popping off anytime in the next decade...
 
I don't need too, nor is there any requirement, you are simply looking from your own perspective, picking & choosing selectively, incapable of seeing or meeting the other side of the argument, therefore balanced discussion is impossible.

Nonsense. Unlike you, I freely acknowledge facts whether they support my view or not. You just wave your hand and dismiss them. Preferences and anger masquerading as facts I point out for what they are.
[doublepost=1486231995][/doublepost]
I read through this whole stupid thread looking for a pic of the broken keyboard and was thoroughly disappointed...

Ha, he did admit that he's hard on keyboards, but it is remarkable that he was able to destroy one. They're fairly sturdy in my experience.
 
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Nonsense. Unlike you, I freely acknowledge facts whether they support my view or not. You just wave your hand and dismiss them. Preferences and anger masquerading as facts I point out for what they are.

Dream on, your only convincing yourself, nobody else cares. Had Apple done the right thing by the MBP such conversations would never exist. Some expect more, some accept what their given, a significant and distinct difference..

Q-6
 
Dream on, your only convincing yourself, nobody else cares. Had Apple done the right thing by the MBP such conversations would never exist. Some expect more, some accept what their given, a significant and distinct difference..

Q-6

Huh? Is there some connection there to what you quoted from me? Again, I cited facts, you merely dismissed them. You claim there are lots of reviews that support your claims, you don't cite any. See the difference?
 
Huh? Is there some connection there to what you quoted from me? Again, I cited facts, you merely dismissed them. You claim there are lots of reviews that support your claims, you don't cite any. See the difference?

For every positive review there is a negative one. For every praise there are negative ones. Because you can post a positive review means absolutely NOTHING to any rational thinking person..

The outrage, jumping of ship and the very high return rate along with the very low resale value of these machines speaks volumes!

Did any of this exist when the 2015 was released? Nope!
 
For every positive review there is a negative one. For every praise there are negative ones. Because you can post a positive review means absolutely NOTHING to any rational thinking person..

The outrage, jumping of ship and the very high return rate along with the very low resale value of these machines speaks volumes!

Did any of this exist when the 2015 was released? Nope!

Nonsense. I didn't post a positive review. I posted results from tests done under controlled conditions. Please read first, then reply.

The 2015 was pretty much like its predecessors, very little new to give hives to people who don't like change. But every change, and sometimes lack of change too, brings people to outrage and jumping ship. The jumping ship in this case, by the way, is based on a 2012 model. That fits my point, not yours. Or would if the OP was actually jumping ship. It appears he isn't.

Again, if you want to know if the resale value is less than for competitors, you have to compare to competitors.
 
Nonsense. I didn't post a positive review. I posted results from tests done under controlled conditions. Please read first, then reply

Nonsense. You posted absolutely nothing relevant to any rational thinking person... Maybe you should hone your Google skills as there are plenty of test that refute the nonsense you are spewing..
 
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Nonsense. You posted absolutely nothing relevant to any rational thinking person... Maybe your should hone your Google skills as there are plenty of test that refute the nonsense you are spewing..

Amazing irony, yet again. Again, I welcome those who claim there are contrary results to post them. So far, nothing.
 
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I know you are trying to defend Apple at all costs but please try and follow along with the conversation..

lyngo said: (snip)



I said:



Please stop taking peoples responses out of context and twisting their words to try and make a pro Apple argument. Make the argument on their own merits (which are not many with these new machines) and please try to follow the conversation(s)...

I agree that overall they don't seem to hold their same value in the context of cost in the past. But personal value and longevity of said product has worked out for me. As an example, I had a cMBP from Mid-2010 and just upgraded to a 12" MacBook on sale at Best Buy. Long story short for a computer I purchased for roughly $969 (refurb) 7 years ago, my return was $350. My cost for owning this device was under $100 a year. That's great value!

On the resale value side, when I look locally at my Craigslist options, Macs and iDevices (not Apple Watches!!! Entire different story here!!!) hold their value better than non-Apple branded machinery. Again, this is just my opinion. Feel free to not agree, but this is my own experience.

It's interesting, away from the disputing opinions that aren't civil in nature on this thread, to see the nature of people's workflow and their experiences and stories.

- Jay
 
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I love it how some people here are still trying to convince everyone that MacBook Pros suck and they think they have some proof. The truth is, of course, that not every computer is good for everyone, but they just can't deal with the fact that some people are happy with their MBPs. Say you like it and you're "defending Apple at all costs" or "accepting what you've been given and not asking for more" and silly bs like that. Insulting, petty and ignorant viewpoint.

People, you've tried - you really did - to make everyone who bought their MBPs feel sick. It was a worthy effort, but it failed. Can we close this pointless topic?
[doublepost=1486248544][/doublepost]
Amazing irony, yet again. Again, I welcome those who claim there are contrary results to post them. So far, nothing.

It's pointless. The guy you're arguing with put me on the ignore list after I asked him to produce any evidence for his claims that Apple criticizers are being insulted on these forums. Instead of finding one quote, he just put me on ignore and said he has no time to things like, you know, proof and facts. Just pay no attention to him, it's easier - trust me.
 
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Dream on, your only convincing yourself, nobody else cares. Had Apple done the right thing by the MBP such conversations would never exist. Some expect more, some accept what their given, a significant and distinct difference..

Q-6

Funny how long time Apple users are bailing out huh? I wonder why? The defenders of Apple resort to distorted 'facts' and twisting the words of others...

Meh, I am digging my new Surface Book and for me --> it's bye-bye Apple! Just like many others have bailed, so have I...

#nomyApple
 
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Just pay no attention to him, it's easier - trust me.

Ha, I guess I don't do things the easy way!

Funny how long time Apple users are bailing out huh? I wonder why? The defenders of Apple resort to distorted 'facts' and twisting the words of others...

Meh, I am digging my new Surface Book and for me --> it's bye-bye Apple as well, just like many others have bailed, so have I...

#nomyApple

More first-class irony. Especially when you consider that it never was your Apple, though you act like you should be running it.
 
Ha, I guess I don't do things the easy way!



More first-class irony. Especially when you consider that it never was your Apple, though you act like you should be running it.

You realize that with every post you make that you are proving my point right? Word twisting galore... I guess it's all the defenders have as they can't defend the machine based on it's merits..

I have no interest in running Apple.. They made a product (several) that I bought and have now sold. Does Apple care? Nope.. Will they care if people continue to exit stage left like they are now doing? Yup!

They would not be the 1st mega company to go belly up over bad decisions..
 
You realize that with every post you make that you are proving my point right? Word twisting galore... I guess it's all the defenders have as they can't defend the machine based on it's merits..

I have no interest in running Apple.. They made a product (several) that I bought and have now sold. Does Apple care? Nope.. Will they care if people continue to exit stage left like they are now doing? Yup!

They would not be the 1st mega company to go belly up over bad decisions..

The irony never ends. Didn't say you were interested in running Apple, obviously.

Still waiting for some evidence for the factual claims you've made.
 
The irony never ends. Didn't say you were interested in running Apple, obviously.

Still waiting for some evidence for the factual claims you've made.

Expand the vocabulary please... Once you've used (and incorrectly I might add) the word irony 14,237 times in the same thread it get kind of old ya know....

Thanks for the comic relief though.. :D
 
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Expand the vocabulary please... Once you've used (and incorrectly I might add) the word irony 14,237 times in the same thread it get kind of old ya know....

Thanks for the comic relief though.. :D

And yet more irony! But still no evidence.
 
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14,238 times irony used in the same thread... ooppss.. Make that 14,239 because I just used it...

irony-alert-ironic.jpg
 
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Hello, I'm the OP! In case you all forgot about me and my thread!

Anyway, I have to agree with @Sanpete.

You can't deny that Apple MacBooks are the gold standard in every sense of the word for consumer notebooks.

At the end of the day, Windows Gaming Laptops aren't good at bloody anything. They're heavy, loud, barely justify the use of the term 'battery powered', too hot and large for anyone who isn't Americans lap.. <notice the lack of political correctness, apply butthurt cream if required> . Sure, they offer good specs on paper. Compared to a Mac portable, they might smoke it, compared to a Windows gaming PC they're still a joke. So if you have the money and are a "serious gamer" the sensible move would be to use a desktop. Personally I don't think Windows Gaming Laptops justify their existence - and the sales figures of them compared to Mac portables backs my point up..

I used to find it HILARIOUS that my old white MacBook, despite being inferior on paper by specs could boot up Leopard MUCH faster than a superiorly hardware equipped Windows Gaming Laptop!!! I would quote its name but I can't remember numbers and letters too well! I just remember explaining to my friend what I explain here - in the real world, the experience speaks beyond specs. Starting up etc has more real world value than FPS...

I'm noticing that sure, my MBP has hardware failures now with the keys and battery worn out.. but at the end of the day, I have friends who bought the same Fujitsu laptop with the same Core i5 3210M in 2014... snapped hinges, creaky cases and a joke of a trackpad compared to the MBP. You'll say "oh but that machine costed half the price of yours!" does that mean its acceptable for those hardware issues to happen? No way. Not when companies like Apple and google (CB Pixel) are producing machines of such superior quality. I must add, that Fujitsu was available in configurations up to and exceeding the price of my MBP! Whilst some of the quality is there if you're willing to pay, I couldn't believe that the majority of Windows laptops are sheer trash.

What I don't like so much about Apple is that I can't buy parts from them for my Mac despite having all the technical abilities to replace it! But then, it didn't get where it is by not having an understanding of the economy etc and I understand their stance on it despite the fact it causes me hassle. I can't say any Windows PC manufacturer would treat me much better.

Also.. how the hell do any of you use a Chromebook? I mean, if its your second or third PC fine, but in that case, don't all of your other devices do all of the CHromebooks tasks much better?! Mad!!!
 
You can't deny that Apple MacBooks are the gold standard in every sense of the word for consumer notebooks.

Use to be = I'd agree. Currently = Nope!


Also.. how the hell do any of you use a Chromebook? I mean, if its your second or third PC fine, but in that case, don't all of your other devices do all of the CHromebooks tasks much better?! Mad!!!

There are some high end Chrombooks with high ends specs out there.. A Chromebook can actually be more useful than a MacBook or a Win machine if you don't look at them with blinders on..

Yes some Mac apps are non existent on Linux but there are usually several replacement alternatives.

They can run Linux inside a Chrome tab, side by side or as a stand alone OS and many of the newer Chromebooks can run Android apps right on the machine.
 
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I couldn't agree more, of course it's a personal opinion, just me I'm not speaking for anyone else. I've always been more than impressed with Apple's customer care, I'm not saying service because you get the impression they actually do care. Not about an individual as such, but ensuring that they deliver the best they possibly can to keep their customers happy.

I too have had the complete and utter shock of having an item (iPhone 6 Plus) replaced with a brand new device when it was out of warranty and without AppleCare. I didn't even ask for a replacement, in fact I wasn't even asking for a repair. I was in the AppleStore for something entirely unrelated and chatting away to the chap. As it was a relevant point in our conversation, I happened to mention that the mute switch on my iPhone was a little loose. That's all, not broken, not even annoying, just slightly loose.

He asked to see it and on the spot just said, I'll give you a new one. Being the honest hardworking type I tried offering money for the replacement, there was no need for it as far as I was concerned so I felt I should at least be paying something. But nope, they wouldn't take anything for doing such a thing. Amazing customer service, by far better than anything I've experienced from any other company ever and that's not my only experience of Apple's outstanding customer care, just one.

So when I decided that I would treat myself to another new shiny toy there was little doubt in the end that it was going to be the new MacBook Pro. I looked around and even tried out the competition of course, we're talking a not insubstantial amount of money, so I like to make sure I'm making the right choice. Of course I need to remain a user of macOS for work, but that doesn't mean I couldn't buy a Windows system for pleasure and other non-macOS dependent work. Or build a hackintosh, or even just run macOS in a VM. I still have my iMac anyway.

But ultimately I find the new MacBook Pro to be a good system, with lots of potential. I went for a maxed out 15" (with the exception of a 1TB SSD instead of 2TB, I'm not that stupid ;)) It benchmarks higher than my iMac, which admittedly is getting a bit old, 2012 27", 3.2Ghz i5, Geforce GTX 675MX 1GB and 32GB of DDR3 RAM and a 512GB SSD. But crucially the iMac can still quite easily cope with my not insignificant workload, only Fusion 360 causes a bit of slowdown when I'm working on a particularly complex 3D model.

So the combination of the MacBook's performance, Apple's customer care, my experiences of macOS and the integration of all of my Apple Devices and what I learned from trying out the Surface Book and Surface Pro (friends have them) and a couple of other laptops (a XPS 13 and some Lenovo who's model number I cant remember) all added up to cement the decision that I'd throw a silly amount of money at a new MacBook Pro, I don't regret that decision and I'm entirely certain it's the right one for me.


So all that waffling gets me to here. There are those of us for whom Apple and the MacBook range is the perfect fit, it's the device that no other can replace and I don't think anyone could argue that Apple's customer service is the best in the world.
But they are most certainly not the right choice for everyone. There exists more than one operating system and more than one manufacturer for a very good reason. We're all different, we have different needs, wants, likes and dislikes. We are all entitled to make our own choice, no-one can tell anyone else what they need or should have. So if someone decides that Apple is no longer providing what they want or need, that's fine, they aren't wrong just because they want a non-Apple device they just have a different opinion than those who do. I still have to use Windows occasionally and if I'm honest, I still don't like it, not enough to switch back to it again anyway. But it's getting pretty damn close. It's a good, robust operating system these days and if they could just do something about my few *personal* pet peeves I'd maybe switch over in the future.

So for the love of god, either help a chap by offering helpful, informed advice. Or leave them the hell alone, you won't convince them that they are wrong and should instead buy Apple, because they aren't wrong, not even a little.


Anyway, as for the OP, the Dell XPS 13 is a really nice machine, if I were buying a new Windows laptop it would either be that or the Surface Book, which I'm particularly fond of. Either would serve you well I think. I'm also rather keen on the Razer Blade Stealth, but I'd want the Razer Core and a big beefy graphics card to go along with it :D




(This episode of pointless ranting was brought to you today by the letter V, the number 22, 50 odd hours of sleeplessness, 360mg of morphine and about 6 gallons of Coffee :D)

pain killers, coffee and your laptop ... that's living brother!!
 
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