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That Dell laptop is also laughably niche. The Nvidia GPU is extremely midrange. Also, what is going on with that line that says '(45% color gamut)'?

Btw, my first laptop was a Titanium PowerBook. That one cost the same amount in $ but not accounting for inflation.

Looks like that's the base panel. You'd only want that if it's always docked. Actually, you'd never want that.

I don't see much parallel between a MacBook and these. The high end business Dells are rough around the edges but offer mil-spec durability and enterprise manageability. Seems to me it's a totally different target market.

One thing Apple could do for their premium price is give a three year warranty like Dell does. On site too? No? :(
 
Looks like that's the base panel. You'd only want that if it's always docked. Actually, you'd never want that.

I don't see much parallel between a MacBook and these. The high end business Dells are rough around the edges but offer mil-spec durability and enterprise manageability. Seems to me it's a totally different target market.

One thing Apple could do for their premium price is give a three year warranty like Dell does. On site too? No? :(


Different target market, absolutely but when you hear complaints about new macs they scream for specs like as you say "military spec enterprise quality"

But if Apple released a MacBook Pro like that at that price what would people say then?
 
What do you guys pay for 5k stand alone displays over there?
It's $1420 AUD for the Dell/Apple 5K.

I guess the other thing I dislike about Apple is that they have no good offering that doesn't come paired with a screen. The Mac Pro hasn't been updated and is way more than I need, and the Mac Mini doesn't even come close to being enough.
 
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I wonder what the price would be if the specs were matched. Looks like we down here only get the high spec models.

I built on as close as I could get to the 256GB MacBook and it was $2K US.

You can go pretty crazy with them. Xeon procs, 64GB ECC RAM, PCI SSD RAID, etc. if you need such things, you simply can't get them from Apple for any price.
 
It's $1420 AUD for the Dell/Apple 5K.

I guess the other thing I dislike about Apple is that they have no good offering that doesn't come paired with a screen. The Mac Pro hasn't been updated and is way more than I need, and the Mac Mini doesn't even come close to being enough.

Yeah I just got an ex lease Mac Pro 4.1 that I will upgrade. My needs justify it but I don't have the money for the trash can model.

Also I don't think they have ever really offered an in between for desktops it was either iMac or Mac Pro
 
I think part of the problem is that the recent price structure and available models effectively price much of the user base out of the ability to afford new updated replacements for their existing machines.

I've got a 2006 that I've been updating just for this reason. I can't afford a suitable replacement from Apple. So I just keep enhancing what I have.

But newer Macs have lost that option as well.

Even if all you need is more memory, you have to buy a new Mac. And for loyal Mac users who like OS X, that presents a financial dilemma.

Apple stopped building any machines that meet my needs. So I have a different dilemma. No available new Mac will do what I need. And even if it could, I couldn't dream of affording it.

An updated Mac Pro with the expansion slots brought back, would be a start. FireWire over Thunderbolt would take care of one issue at additional expense.

By the time I'm done adapting the new Mac to replace what I have, it becomes impractical and ridiculous.

My path forward is use my old Mac where it meets my needs. And Windows PC for everything else. Sadly.

And that option is only because I prefer OS X. Otherwise it would just be Windows all the way.

Essentially, by pricing the new machines so high, and adding the expense of adapter cables and external boxes for what's been removed, Apple has forced many of their fan base to go elsewhere.

We like and prefer OS X. But if we can't afford to stay in our Mac World, then we have to go where we can afford to live.

It's not just about whether the price is reasonable for the hardware in question. It's about whether there is even a good affordable option available.

The Mini was a great option for many, until its price went up and its capabilities went down.
 
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Different target market, absolutely but when you hear complaints about new macs they scream for specs like as you say "military spec enterprise quality"

But if Apple released a MacBook Pro like that at that price what would people say then?

I would say the sky is the limit. Why not have a couple BTO models for the pros or those who want it all?

What I think people are bitching about is fairly low end Macs are being sold at crazy prices. I do think they are pushing it at the low end. I guess we'll see how things shake out when the Airs go away.
 
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I think part of the problem is that the recent price structure and available models effectively price much of the user base out of the ability to afford new updated replacements for their existing machines.

I've got a 2006 that I've been updating just for this reason. I can't afford a suitable replacement from Apple. So I just keep enhancing what I have.

But newer Macs have lost that option as well.

Even if all you need is more memory, you have to buy a new Mac. And for loyal Mac users who like OS X, that presents a financial dilemma.

Apple stopped building any machines that meet my needs. So I have a different dilemma. No available new Mac will do what I need. And even if it could, I couldn't dream of affording it.

An updated Mac Pro with the expansion slots brought back, would be a start. FireWire over Thunderbolt would take care of one issue at additional expense.

By the time I'm done adapting the new Mac to replace what I have, it becomes impractical and ridiculous.

My path forward is use my old Mac where it meets my needs. And Windows PC for everything else. Sadly.

And that option is only because I prefer OS X. Otherwise it would just be Windows all the way.

Essentially, by pricing the new machines so high, and adding the expense of adapter cables and external boxes for what's been removed, Apple has forced many of their fan base to go elsewhere.

We like and prefer OS X. But if we can't afford to stay in our Mac World, then we have to go where we can afford to live.

It's not just about whether the price is reasonable for the hardware in question. It's about whether there is even a good affordable option available.

The Mini was a great option for many, until its price went up and its capabilities went down.

I apologise for using you as an example but you brought up a good point that applies to many things.

People with old gear who haven't upgraded as newer models arrive. Initially it's not bad as you are still close to the new model and the value is still up there. But after enough years the difference between the old model and new model is so drastic in price and specs that the financial costs to sell your old machine and upgrade is so much greater then it would be replacing a more recent machine.

I see it with cameras new model comes out you can sell old model to upgrade to the new one and then it only costs you the difference in price as you take the money from the sale and use it to purchase.

But if your model is 4 models old, you won't get as much from the sale so have to spend more to upgrade.
[doublepost=1484358957][/doublepost]
I would say the sky is the limit. Why not have a couple BTO models for the pros or those who want it all?

What I think people are bitching about is fairly low end Macs are being sold at crazy prices. I do think they are pushing it at the low end. I guess we'll see how things shake out when the Airs go away.

I'll be honest I actually don't pay attention to anything low end that Apple sell. I'm not the target market for that stuff.
[doublepost=1484359083][/doublepost]
i7-6920HQ, 16 or maybe even 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD, Quadro M2000M. I can get it for $1500 at the Dell outlet every day.

Interesting, wouldn't be the first time I have seen a huge price difference between NZ and other countries. We are not a cheap country by any means.
 
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Yeah I just got an ex lease Mac Pro 4.1 that I will upgrade. My needs justify it but I don't have the money for the trash can model.

Also I don't think they have ever really offered an in between for desktops it was either iMac or Mac Pro

That was the nice thing before Steve Jobs returned. We had options available in between levels.

When I purchased my desktop PowerPC G3 266 with A/V and DVD, there was another model $500 less that didn't have the G3. But I opted to future proof.

It turned out to be a great investment. And it out specked the iMacs that Steve brought out later.

Prior to Steve's return, we had desktops, towers, and many variations at different costs. We also had laptops in various ranges.

The modern Apple gives us a choice of an all-in-one that is reasonably current, a Mini that is laughable at its price and has been going backwards in specs instead of progressing, a "tower" that is priced for the rich and obsolete, and a laptop selection that while varied with overlapping models doesn't make itself available to those on a budget.

The laptop market is where Apple has gone crazy. Too many models overlapping without enough price gap between them. They need to price some really low, then a mid range, then a high range. Putting that many similar machines in the same price range with odd differences between them is a mess.

It would be great to see Apple adopt a strategy of:

$499 affordable budget desktop just to keep our less rich customers with us. Options up to $900 for various configurations.

$700 all in one. Basically $499 model with a screen and keyboard and such. And from there stretch models from $1000 to $2500 based on additional specs.

Add a $600 budget laptop. Nothing fancy. Just so our less rich customers can use OS X on the go. Additional models can then stretch into the $1000 to $6000 range if they like.

$1500 Desktop (essentially a screenless iMac with upper end i7 specs, and moderate expandability). Max configuration at $2000 (to move buyers up to Pro Tower at that investment level).

$2000 Tower entry point. Basic Mac Pro. And from there provide options up to $10,000 if you want.


I'm all for them going nuts and throwing all the crazy new ideas at premium prices. But still keep the entry point available so that you can keep your less rich fans in the family.

Keeping people in the family is better than throwing them out because they are poorer at the moment. Because guess where they'll spend their money when their finances improve. Yep, they'll spend it on their current family. Wouldn't you rather they kept throwing a little bit in where they can and stick around to make larger purchases later?
 
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That was the nice thing before Steve Jobs returned. We had options available in between levels.

When I purchased my desktop PowerPC G3 266 with A/V and DVD, there was another model $500 less that didn't have the G3. But I opted to future proof.

It turned out to be a great investment. And it out specked the iMacs that Steve brought out later.

Prior to Steve's return, we had desktops, towers, and many variations at different costs. We also had laptops in various ranges.

The modern Apple gives us a choice of an all-in-one that is reasonably current, a Mini that is laughable at its price and has been going backwards in specs instead of progressing, a "tower" that is priced for the rich and obsolete, and a laptop selection that while varied with overlapping models doesn't make itself available to those on a budget.

The laptop market is where Apple has gone crazy. Too many models overlapping without enough price gap between them. They need to price some really low, then a mid range, then a high range. Putting that many similar machines in the same price range with odd differences between them is a mess.

It would be great to see Apple adopt a strategy of:

$499 affordable budget desktop just to keep our less rich customers with us. Options up to $900 for various configurations.

$700 all in one. Basically $499 model with a screen and keyboard and such. And from there stretch models from $1000 to $2500 based on additional specs.

Add a $600 budget laptop. Nothing fancy. Just so our less rich customers can use OS X on the go. Additional models can then stretch into the $1000 to $6000 range if they like.

$1500 Desktop (essentially a screenless iMac with upper end i7 specs, and moderate expandability). Max configuration at $2000 (to move buyers up to Pro Tower at that investment level).

$2000 Tower entry point. Basic Mac Pro. And from there provide options up to $10,000 if you want.


I'm all for them going nuts and throwing all the crazy new ideas at premium prices. But still keep the entry point available so that you can keep your less rich fans in the family.

Keeping people in the family is better than throwing them out because they are poorer at the moment. Because guess where they'll spend their money when their finances improve. Yep, they'll spend it on their current family. Wouldn't you rather they kept throwing a little bit in where they can and stick around to make larger purchases later?

I understand exactly where you are coming from but this is where I can't relate. I try to be brand agnostic, I have an iPhone and an iPod shuffle and my recently purchased Mac Pro 4.1. But for years and years I was a PC Windows user. I don't have that multi decade long brand loyalty to Apple. I have always wanted one but have only recently made the jump, infact it's not even a jump as I'll still be running my windows laptop until I get the new MacBook Pro. I'll also probably still even then have a windows computer around.

My reason to go Apple is not because of long term loyalty but because it's the standard in the industry that I want to pursue.

Since getting my iPhone I really like the simplicity of iOS. It just works and is basic. I like that. I don't care about customisation on my phone just that it works. I'm not even tempted by android.

It's like my love of the google search engine. I don't use google chrome though, I just never went there (did try it ages ago, wasn't a fan) and am not tempted. But I love that google.com is a blank screen with a logo and a search bar. Completely no frills.

I'm going to use my Mac Pro for editing and media storage. That's pretty much it, maybe some minor internet searches. When I get a MacBook Pro it will purely be for reviewing images/video on location and media manage files until I can get back to my Mac Pro.

Also Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1997, that was 20 years ago.
 
Exactly!!! You are not the type of people I am pointing at. You know your need and your budget do you buy based on that.

Sounds like you and I are in similar boat as far as laptops. I also have a 5 year old HP that's still kicking.

Really? A lot of people complain about HP but I personally love them. Last one before this one was 3 years old but someone broke into our apartment and stole it.

I wish they made them like they used to with pretty styles. The one they stole was an HP DV6. It looked like this:

0feac9b41df6291d4c651e78895fd565.jpg
e325b0db470ac19393a8106bc85c1cd8.jpg
 
That was the nice thing before Steve Jobs returned. We had options available in between levels.

When I purchased my desktop PowerPC G3 266 with A/V and DVD, there was another model $500 less that didn't have the G3. But I opted to future proof.

It turned out to be a great investment. And it out specked the iMacs that Steve brought out later.

Prior to Steve's return, we had desktops, towers, and many variations at different costs. We also had laptops in various ranges.

The modern Apple gives us a choice of an all-in-one that is reasonably current, a Mini that is laughable at its price and has been going backwards in specs instead of progressing, a "tower" that is priced for the rich and obsolete, and a laptop selection that while varied with overlapping models doesn't make itself available to those on a budget.

The laptop market is where Apple has gone crazy. Too many models overlapping without enough price gap between them. They need to price some really low, then a mid range, then a high range. Putting that many similar machines in the same price range with odd differences between them is a mess.

It would be great to see Apple adopt a strategy of:

$499 affordable budget desktop just to keep our less rich customers with us. Options up to $900 for various configurations.

$700 all in one. Basically $499 model with a screen and keyboard and such. And from there stretch models from $1000 to $2500 based on additional specs.

Add a $600 budget laptop. Nothing fancy. Just so our less rich customers can use OS X on the go. Additional models can then stretch into the $1000 to $6000 range if they like.

$1500 Desktop (essentially a screenless iMac with upper end i7 specs, and moderate expandability). Max configuration at $2000 (to move buyers up to Pro Tower at that investment level).

$2000 Tower entry point. Basic Mac Pro. And from there provide options up to $10,000 if you want.


I'm all for them going nuts and throwing all the crazy new ideas at premium prices. But still keep the entry point available so that you can keep your less rich fans in the family.

Keeping people in the family is better than throwing them out because they are poorer at the moment. Because guess where they'll spend their money when their finances improve. Yep, they'll spend it on their current family. Wouldn't you rather they kept throwing a little bit in where they can and stick around to make larger purchases later?
I totally feel you. I think they should keep an entry level line of everything. That would be ideal, even if it were a loss leader, I'd think that they'd still make enough on the higher end products to partially compensate.

However, you have to remember the pre-Jobs years they were at the verge of bankruptcy, and they were pretty much following the PC commodity business model. The line was too big and complex, and they tried to compete on price. That almost brought Apple down. If Apple went down, no more of this leading the industry innovation. Just a bunch of PC's competing on price and not overall design. This is a trade that I'll take.

But, it would be great again for entry level. I don't think you are what OP is ranting about (forgive me if I presume incorrectly). I'll speak for myself when I say it's annoying to hear people complain about price AND want equal or better products. That's bats**t crazy that defies common sense. "Apple should just lower their margin for loyal customers." "Apple should add next year's tech but keep prices the same as 2008." Irrational.
 
That would be an easy thing to blame the price on but they can be had these days for a couple of hundred dollars at the size.
[doublepost=1484354859][/doublepost]

I want to emphasise that I wasn't comparing specs. I just wanted to point out that there are windows machines out there priced way higher and yes they have things that don't come at lower prices.

But if they put that card in a MacBook Pro at the price that Dell is. Would it suddenly become "acceptable"?
You are acting like a loon.

Of course there are expensive windows machines, who ever said there weren't? That doesn't negate the fact that the Apple tax is WAY more than it used to be.
 
Are there cheaper options? yes, are they costly? yes, are they the most expensive laptops out there?.. abso-flaming-lutely not!!!

Their prices as far as professional "business" laptops go is mid range at best.

Why don't people complain about this in the windows world? Now this is expensive!!!!

http://m.dell.com/mt/www.dell.com/n...ion/pd?un_jtt_v_MPLP=yes&fl=m&un_jtt_redirect

I'd like to see an example of a similarly spec' d Mac and a PC. My guess is the PC that costs as much or more than a Mac is a much better spec'd and more up to date computer.

To me paying two grand for a last generation i5 is BS.
 
You are acting like a loon.

Of course there are expensive windows machines, who ever said there weren't?

My thread title is extreme and you wouldn't be wrong on the loon part but look at all the great insight and discussion everyone is having.

Every time I've heard someone debate Apple vs pc, they always act like Apple is the most expensive game in town.

Everyone talks about what's "Pro" so I thought hey let's look at the extreme high end and see how that compares.

I'm coming from the photography world. People in that world go on a lot about cost of gear.
[doublepost=1484373832][/doublepost]
Not that I can tell. The new 15" base model is $100 less than the opening price of the previous model of similar specs.

I will say this much that for me at least, everything seems more expensive now. When I earned less it seemed to go further (even with factoring in taxes).

I wonder if I am just so used to what things cost here in New Zealand that I am less shocked by price. I only say that as I often look at what prices of things in the USA and think wow cheap for you guys but then you guys are saying its super expensive.
 
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Interesting choice of Dell laptop you decided use as a comparison.
Here are some New Zealand prices for well known Dell models.

XPS 13 NZD $2099.00 (add $100 for 256GB SSD)
XPS 15 NZD $2379.00 (1920 x 1080 HD display and 8GB DDR4 RAM)
XPS 15 NZD $3399.00 (3840 x 2160 Ultra HD, 32GB DDR4 RAM and 1TB SSD)

http://www.dell.com/nz/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd
http://www.dell.com/nz/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd

Those are current on-line prices (including discounts)

NZ prices for 2016 Macbook Pro models (base price with no options):

13 inch NZD $2499.00 (no Touch Bar)
13 inch NZD $2999.00 (Touch Bar)
15 inch NZD $3999.00

http://www.apple.com/nz/macbook-pro/specs/
 
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Interesting choice of Dell laptop you decided use as a comparison.
Here are some New Zealand prices for well known Dell models.

XPS 13 NZD $2099.00 (add $100 for 256GB SSD)
XPS 15 NZD $2379.00 (1920 x 1080 HD display and 8GB DDR4 RAM)
XPS 15 NZD $3399.00 (3840 x 2160 Ultra HD, 32GB DDR4 RAM and 1TB SSD)

http://www.dell.com/nz/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd
http://www.dell.com/nz/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd

Those are current on-line prices (including discounts)

NZ prices for 2016 Macbook Pro models (base price with no options):

13 inch NZD $2499.00 (no Touch Bar)
13 inch NZD $2999.00 (Touch Bar)
15 inch NZD $3999.00

http://www.apple.com/nz/macbook-pro/specs/

Thanks for posting those! I emphasise that this WAS NOT A SPEC COMPARISON, this was purely a "hey you think that's expensive look at this" comparison
 
Petty comment presuming to be king censor of the internet. I will give him all the possible respect due.

Petty yeah maybe. I don't really care. Seriously though I really don't like complaining. I am more into happy positive thinking. I am a firm believer in the whole if you don't like something then talk with your wallet and don't buy it.

As for censorship I am not really a big fan of it.

So really haha I am just being hypocritical by saying I'm sick of hearing people complaining about apple stuff then go on to say that I'm not into censorship people can say what they like haha.

But hey what people think of me is none of my business.

The whole reason for me starting this thread was I have read threads like the thread about apple not making monitors anymore and so many threads on here and there is so much cynicism and animosity towards the industry and towards apple and towards well anything.

I apologize but I personally find that for me happy and positive is my happy place and cynicism and negativity is really really depressing or me, as i've had depression and been treated for it so know what that's like.

I mean the power is all in your wallets, if you aren't happy with price or specs.... don't buy it.
 
Are there cheaper options? yes, are they costly? yes, are they the most expensive laptops out there?.. abso-flaming-lutely not!!!

Their prices as far as professional "business" laptops go is mid range at best.

Why don't people complain about this in the windows world? Now this is expensive!!!!

http://m.dell.com/mt/www.dell.com/n...ion/pd?un_jtt_v_MPLP=yes&fl=m&un_jtt_redirect

In windows world you have choices and high-end laptops like macbook pro are much more cheaper. If you dont like the prices of dell laptops, you can choose something else..

Why do people complain? Because with this amount of money you pay for macbook, your user experience should be top-end not mediocre.

If i didnt need macos, i wouldnt have bought mac. Macos isnt anything magical. I would choose windows over osx on any day..
 
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