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I got an HDDVD player tonight
- Thread starter DakotaGuy
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thats what ive been telling them. it must have sank in because they have nothing left to say
except the occasional, "but its cheaper!"
yes, thanks...i know that.
I think the technical superiority of one format or the other is not very important except for hardcore tech types.
Mac OS is clearly superior to Windows but Windows dominates. As I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, Betamax was technically superior to VHS (in picture quality) but still lost.
I think it will come down to price, marketing strategy, and availability of content. Hope a winner is decided soon. I think Warner picking one side or the other will decide things.
Mac OS is clearly superior to Windows but Windows dominates. As I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, Betamax was technically superior to VHS (in picture quality) but still lost.
I think it will come down to price, marketing strategy, and availability of content. Hope a winner is decided soon. I think Warner picking one side or the other will decide things.
Update!
Well I got an email from Sears today and my Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player finally showed up! So anyhow I went down to the local store and picked it up. I got it all hooked up and I am really happy!!! I am running it on a 42" Vizio 1080i/720p HDTV through HDMI. I also have a Harman/Kardon AVR 247 and it is HDMI compatible as well. The hook up was simple. HDMI to the receiver and then HDMI from the receiver to the TV. I also have a Philips HDD/DVD recorder so that uses my other HDMI input on the receiver. So far I have had a chance to play around with it and here are a few observations.
The menu's are beautiful. They slide in from the side while playing and there is a lot more control then on a standard DVD player. It is full of extra features and I am not even sure what everything does yet, but I am sure in time I will. Picture quality is great. The only HD DVD I have sampled so far is Bourne Identity, but it is a big step up from standard DVD's and it seems even clearer then the HD broadcasts that I receive from the networks. The sound is decoded by the player using Dolby True HD and has more clarity then Dolby Digital from a DVD. I have not had a chance to hook up the ethernet port on the back so I can put it on-line because I don't have any extra ports available right now. I use an Airport Express and wireless is not an option like it is with my Wii. Note to Toshiba: add wireless to this baby! I suppose I will have to figure out how to hook it up in time. The firmware upgrades come through the net and some HD DVD's have special features that are accessed through the internet.
Anyhow I am very happy with the purchase for the price. I paid $179.99 and it even had 2 free HD DVD's inside the box, Bourne Identity and 300. There is a rebate for 5 more. If you figure the value of the HD DVD's the player is just about free.
I know that my post will get some war going again about Blu-ray being so much better...bigger disks...blah blah blah...but the fact is this thing works well...very well for not a lot of $$$. It is full featured and the picture and sound quality are amazing. It is a great value.
Well I got an email from Sears today and my Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player finally showed up! So anyhow I went down to the local store and picked it up. I got it all hooked up and I am really happy!!! I am running it on a 42" Vizio 1080i/720p HDTV through HDMI. I also have a Harman/Kardon AVR 247 and it is HDMI compatible as well. The hook up was simple. HDMI to the receiver and then HDMI from the receiver to the TV. I also have a Philips HDD/DVD recorder so that uses my other HDMI input on the receiver. So far I have had a chance to play around with it and here are a few observations.
The menu's are beautiful. They slide in from the side while playing and there is a lot more control then on a standard DVD player. It is full of extra features and I am not even sure what everything does yet, but I am sure in time I will. Picture quality is great. The only HD DVD I have sampled so far is Bourne Identity, but it is a big step up from standard DVD's and it seems even clearer then the HD broadcasts that I receive from the networks. The sound is decoded by the player using Dolby True HD and has more clarity then Dolby Digital from a DVD. I have not had a chance to hook up the ethernet port on the back so I can put it on-line because I don't have any extra ports available right now. I use an Airport Express and wireless is not an option like it is with my Wii. Note to Toshiba: add wireless to this baby! I suppose I will have to figure out how to hook it up in time. The firmware upgrades come through the net and some HD DVD's have special features that are accessed through the internet.
Anyhow I am very happy with the purchase for the price. I paid $179.99 and it even had 2 free HD DVD's inside the box, Bourne Identity and 300. There is a rebate for 5 more. If you figure the value of the HD DVD's the player is just about free.
I know that my post will get some war going again about Blu-ray being so much better...bigger disks...blah blah blah...but the fact is this thing works well...very well for not a lot of $$$. It is full featured and the picture and sound quality are amazing. It is a great value.
Yeah I was waiting too, but once the prices got below $200 I decided to take the plunge. I figure I'd still end up with a darn good up-convert DVD player that would last for a few years no matter what happens with the war. I use Netflix to rent movies so for me it is nice because now I can select many of the titles in HD DVD instead of standard DVD for no extra cost.
Whats the resolution on your tv. I have a 50 inch sony thats only 1378x756 and I can tell the difference between 1080i and 720p broadcasts. So you can see an obvious difference between the broadcast HD and the HD-DVD?
A big determining factor for me has been rentals. Until either HD or BR is chosen I feel weird spending 29.99 for a disc that may be obsolete. Blockbuster is only renting Blue Ray and it looks as if netflix is renting HD-DVD. link.
My TV is 1366x768. I would not say an obvious difference. The picture just seems very crisp I guess. I see a difference between 720p and 1080i. I prefer 1080i myself over 720p, but people see things differently. 1080p is the best, but if you don't have a 1080p TV then why buy the more expensive 1080p player? I notice the HD DVD's I have are 1080p disks, so I assume the player down-converts to 720p or 1080i. Anyhow picture quality is still very good. I compared a standard DVD being up-converted to 1080i on the player to an HD DVD playing at 1080i and there is quite a bit of difference. Details that seems a bit soft on the standard DVD are much sharper on the HD DVD. Colors are more vibrant as well. At first when I tried a standard DVD in the player I thought it looked just about as good until faces started showing up. The faces and other details are much sharper even though the standard DVD is being up-converted. I understand that up-conversion is just using software to fill in the extra lines whereas HD DVD is getting the extra lines from the actual disk.
I probably won't be purchasing a lot of HD DVD's, other then a few favorites, until a winner is declared. Even then I probably won't buy a lot. I have found that Netflix works better for me then buying a lot of disks. Netflix is supporting both HD DVD and Blu-ray. When you click on HD DVD you just tell them that you own an HD DVD player and other necessary equipment for HD. At that point, anytime you add a movie to your list if that movie is available in HD DVD that is the disk you will receive. They also offer a search for HD DVD titles only. I assume it works the same for Blu-ray.
thought I would drop by to update you on Michael Bays feelings towards the format war, which madoka was disputing
taken from michaelbay.comQoute:
"What you don't understand is corporate politics. Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth.
Bay"
once again he makes it clear that blu-ray is far and away the superior format. just trying to show you the light, without FUD.
Well that is pretty much the reason I just sort of let this thread die. All I wanted to do is share a good deal on a high definition player and tell about my experience with the Toshiba HD DVD player. I rent movies through Netflix and I decided for the same rental price I might as well have the capability to do high definition movies on my LCD HDTV.
Anyhow I have been really enjoying the player. It is a quality product for the price and does an awesome job up-converting standard resolution DVDs as well. HD looks great and the sound is clear and dynamic. HD DVD is NOT a bad product as some have tried to say. I am just glad I found a way to watch HD movies without spending hundred and hundreds of dollars. Just a year ago I did not think it would be possible.
I will enjoy HD DVD as long as it is around whether it wins the war or not. If Blu-ray wins then I will pick up a player once they are affordable and it is a completed specification. If HD DVD wins, then I will probably upgrade to a better player in a couple of years. If neither wins...then I will just use my player to watch regular DVD's.
To be honest both platforms are doing VERY poor compared to the DVD. im not arguing...its more of engaging in discussion.
and if you arent interested in the thread, dont read it Well that is pretty much the reason I just sort of let this thread die. All I wanted to do is share a good deal on a high definition player and tell about my experience with the Toshiba HD DVD player. I rent movies through Netflix and I decided for the same rental price I might as well have the capability to do high definition movies on my LCD HDTV.
Anyhow I have been really enjoying the player. It is a quality product for the price and does an awesome job up-converting standard resolution DVDs as well. HD looks great and the sound is clear and dynamic. HD DVD is NOT a bad product as some have tried to say. I am just glad I found a way to watch HD movies without spending hundred and hundreds of dollars. Just a year ago I did not think it would be possible.
I will enjoy HD DVD as long as it is around whether it wins the war or not. If Blu-ray wins then I will pick up a player once they are affordable and it is a completed specification. If HD DVD wins, then I will probably upgrade to a better player in a couple of years. If neither wins...then I will just use my player to watch regular DVD's.
well you opened the thread and im not here to make you feel good about your purchase. i didnt intend to piss you off, or make the thread go off topic, just sharing my opinion and responding to others.
it is my opinion that you didnt get a good deal because, like you said, you will be enjoying hd-dvd as long as it is around. there is a reason it was so cheap. enough said.
thread can be over if you don't respond, otherwise don't act surprised when I post.
I don't really care if you like my purchase or not. There are many consumers who will see that HD DVD is the better value for them. I assume you are a hardcore PS3 fan. If I was into PS3 I would probably buy Blu-ray disks too, but I am not. I could care less about the PS3 or anything to do with it. I am a very casual gamer and I own a Wii. I wanted to get into some HD movies, however when I went and checked out Blu-ray players they were very expensive. True they were 1080p players, but then again I don't even own a 1080p HDTV so what is the point? As I was doing research I found out that all of the Blu-ray stand alone players being sold right now will be obsolete in a year or less. Why spend $400-500 on something that won't even allow me to use all of the features on the disks in a year or two?im not arguing...its more of engaging in discussion.
well you opened the thread and im not here to make you feel good about your purchase. i didnt intend to piss you off, or make the thread go off topic, just sharing my opinion and responding to others.
it is my opinion that you didnt get a good deal because, like you said, you will be enjoying hd-dvd as long as it is around. there is a reason it was so cheap. enough said.
thread can be over if you don't respond, otherwise don't act surprised when I post.
I will rent most of my movies and the few I will own will probably be freebies or ones that have been given to me as gifts. I guess I don't find $180 to be a bad price for a player when I don't even plan to invest in hundreds of titles for it.
It is funny that you come in here and keep claiming that the format war is over and Blu-ray has won. If you truly feel that Blu-ray has won then don't mess with hijacking threads and continue to quote Michael Bay. I don't have to do what Michael Bay tells me to do. I will make my own choices. The fact is the HDM market is SO TINY right now that market share is being split by a few thousand here or there depending on the week. If you want to see how silly quoting market share is then compare HD DVD or Blu-ray marketshare to DVD market share. The best chance that HD media will become mainstream is if dual format titles DVD/HD DVD come out for the same price that current DVD's sell for. The other thing that will help make it mainstream is if the price of HD DVD players gets low enough that standard DVD players are no longer produced and HD DVD players become the new standard on the shelf. Basically either HD DVD or Blu-ray needs to find a way to replace DVD without a rise in cost and allow seamless adoption for the mass public. Right now neither is doing it, but Toshiba is trying to go the mass adoption route. The other issue that you have is that most people still have SDTV sets and a HUGE chunk of those are still analog TV's.
Anyhow I am happy with my purchase and I am sure there are thousands more that are also very happy with HD DVD. It is a niche market right now and that won't change until one or the other can find a way to become mainstream. Standard DVD and downloads might actually be the final winners in this war. If that is the case then I still have a darn good DVD player in my Toshiba. I don't mind debating with someone about something, but you seem to aim your blu laser at anyone who doesn't totally agree with you and try to belittle them for their choice.
you obviously didnt do a good job at researching if you believe all blu-ray standalones will be obsolete in a year...and after you "researched" you settled on a sub $200 1080i HD-DVD player?
true, a small fraction of blu-ray players on the market might not be able to play those extra features your talking about (PIP). but you wont even have the ability to watch any normal features, unless you go with dvd. its funny to me that you bring up 'obsolete' as a reason you made your hd-dvd purchase. really? are you sure you werent researching your budget?
the best chance of HDM market becoming mainstream is warner brothers going blu-ray exclusive. they probably will seeing out of 96 titles they have on both formats on amazon, only 12 have sold more copies on hd-dvd. blu-ray is winning, badly, and microsoft is dragging it along as long as they can. i dont mind debating that. did you see the new 12+ hd-dvd movie offer with each player? soon they will be giving away players with movies.
HD TVs are the biggets christmas gift this year, and the ps3 has sold millions and millions of units (best blu-ray player on market, in many peoples opinion) digital downloads is a looooong way off, do some more research. blu-ray holds 96% of the market in australia, dominates in europe, japan, and is in works with china. I am confident in blu-ray, and the only way I see that changing is warner getting paid off like paramound and going hd-dvd.
im not arguing that blu-ray is better (IMO it is), only that it will win.
i cant argue with someone who is convinced they had a good deal, when they refuse to evaluate the future value of their investment. its a sinking format and prices will continue to drop, making your "good deal" even worse. hell, even this week they are giving away twice as many movies.
edit:
and im not trying to belittle you, or anyone. but do get defensive when people attack the facts I use with their opinions and can never show any proof for what they say. some of the things I said are my opinion, but other parts are real world facts, which I can link to.
winning in the fight "armut gegen elend" as it is called around here, is hardly something i would mention
in germany the total numbers were around 3500 against 1450 standalone players .. in a 9-12 month time frame ...
the 70ties called they want their laserdisc back
Well you keep stating your opinion that it's over and Blu-ray has won as fact. That is why I don't even see why you are arguing with anyone about the formats if you feel it is over and your format has won. What is the point in discussing this if it is over???
Now as far as settling on a sub $200 HD DVD player...what exactly is the problem with that? I OWN a 720p/1080i TV and since it is only a couple of months old I don't plan on getting a new one for a few years. Exactly why do I need a 1080p player with a 1080i TV?
I am not rich. I can't afford to throw down thousands of dollars to have the best of everything. I am sure you are the type that would never settle for anything except the best, but many consumers are not like that.
1) Does my 720p/1080i TV and HD DVD player give me much better sound and picture then standard TV and DVD? YES
2) Is my set-up provide many hours of enjoyment? YES
3) Do I need to show off the biggest and best home theater set up to my buddies to feel better about myself? NO
I have a 42" Vizio LCD 720p/1080i TV which I bought for $850 and I am very happy with it. I have a Harman/Kardon AVR 247 HDMI receiver which I found for $400. I have a Philips HDD/DVD recorder with HDMI that I bought for $300 and last I have a Bose Acoustimass 16 6.1 speaker system which I bought back in 2004 as a gift for myself when I returned from Iraq. I added the HD DVD player because it seemed like a natural fit for my set-up and the price was right. I understand that you would never own anything that I do because it is not good enough for you, but for many consumers they would be very happy with the system that I have put together.
In the end is your PQ really that much better on a $2000+ Sony TV with a $500 Blu-ray player? I'm sure it's better, but I bet it's not $1,500 better!
no, I keep stating my opinion that blu-ray is better and will eventually win. it is most definitely NOT over thanks to microsoft.
your set up is very admirable, as good as mine minus hd-dvd and with it 1080p, I am not attacking your wealth or taste.
I once owned a 32'' off brand 1080i tv, got it at a great deal at the time. but i sold it when I realized it wasnt worth it anymore, I knew I would soon be upgrading to 1080p and that prices were coming down hard on all the old 1080i sets. and we're talking about a TV, it will show whatever you plug into it for a long time, your hd-dvd player wont do the same. (just sharing so you understand that i am also a "smart" consumer looking for the best deals and such)
the ps3 is $200 more than your hd-dvd player, upconverts better, plays video games, has built in wi-fi, does 1080p, and will continue to play the next generation discs in the future . if you could say the same, I would say you got a good deal. as of now, you got a clearenced player that will be obsolete in 6 months.
you should have spent $40 and got an upconverting DVD player, IMO. thats a better deal for your needs, as the extra $160 you spent to be able to play hd-dvds is worthless, and getting cheaper by the week!
the TV I once owned provided much better sound and picture than standard. it also provided many hours of entertainment. and at the time, i thought it was a good deal, but when I looked to the future I realized it wasnt.
what i am saying is I dont settle for second best when there is a better choice for better value, even if its $200 dollars more (not $1500).
excuse me? armut gegen elend? total numbers of what against what?
the 80s called and told the 70ties to go **** themselves since they never had any laserdiscs.
total number of stand alone player just like a said ... together they barley sell 5000 a year compared to a few millions of DVD stand alone players in germany alone
"armut gegen elend" is a phrase used mostly for referring to very bad league games where both sides are playing just aweful where neither deserves to win ...
"LD was first available on the market, in Atlanta, on December 15, 1978, two years after the VHS VCR and four years before the CD, which is based on laserdisc technology."
and that's not counting the development and other failed products before that
70ties to 80ties: "with your selection of clothes you shouldn't be smack talking"
total number of stand alone player just like a said ... together they barley sell 5000 a year compared to a few millions of DVD stand alone players in germany alone
"armut gegen elend" is a phrase used mostly for referring to very bad league games where both sides are playing just aweful where neither deserves to win ...
"LD was first available on the market, in Atlanta, on December 15, 1978, two years after the VHS VCR and four years before the CD, which is based on laserdisc technology."
and that's not counting the development and other failed products before that
70ties to 80ties: "with your selection of clothes you shouldn't be smack talking"
arent most league games awful? i mean, its soccer (futball?), I never understood why you europeans like it so much! dont get me wrong, love europe and the people, but find socer very boring and arbitrary.
does your data include the ps3 as a player? I doubt it. it should have seeing it is the best on the market. in europe blu-ray has sold over a million titles (just movies) and accounted for 73% of HD movies sold, in australia 95%.
the fact that DVD is still dominating isnt surprising, but as more people get HD TVs the lead will continue to grow.
laserdisc was coined in 1980. it was something else in 1978, dont remember off hand.
It started life as DiscoVision from MCA from 1978 to 1982. In 1982 it was sold to Pioneer who then turned it into LaserDisk.
Anyhow we can wait for 6 months and then revisit this topic. You said that my player will be obsolete junk by then so we will see. Maybe I did make a mistake by going HD DVD, but it is only a $170 mistake. I can handle that. You must be one of those people like my brother-in-law. He never makes a mistake on any decision and everything he owns is the best. Heck he can even drive a car for a year or two and MAKE money on selling it, or so he says.
I am just getting tired of the people who say..."Well either you should be rich to own the very best...OR...you shouldn't own anything at all." I support HD DVD because I think it can provide a chance for everyone to get into HD no matter their income level. Sony WILL NEVER let Blu-ray become an affordable format. If they can kill off HD DVD then they can continue to charge high prices for players and for disks. HD DVD is taking the route of being more affordable. My opinion is different then yours. You say, "Only the best no matter the price." I say "The best performance for the price."
Last spring when I was buying my first video game system I chose the Wii. I was belittled by Sony people on message boards and was told the exact same thing you are telling me right now about HD DVD. The Wii is junk. I will be obsolete in a few months. No one will buy them. Graphics are terrible. Blah Blah Blah. Well I guess they were wrong...way wrong. I love my Wii and for me it is the perfect system. It is a good value and works darn well. I never caught onto video games before. The PS and 360 controllers are not intuitive to me. I just don't get them, but I get the Wii.
I see the HD DVD player the same way I see the Wii. Affordable and a good value for the money. Easy and fun to use. You don't see it the same way and that is fine. I am sure you would never own a Wii and consider them a failure just like HD DVD because you are a Sony person.
In the end the only real advantage that Blu-ray has that matters is disk space. I feel that HD DVD has a value and pricing advantage that will continue even if they become the only format. I also feel that HD DVD provides a very seamless upgrade path for the current owners of DVD. Sony will forget about DVD a lot quicker then the DVD Forum is going to forget about their product and you will be left with cases and cases of disks that are obsolete. Is this all opinion??? Yes, but I know how Sony operates and it is not in the best interest of the consumer. They want to control everything from the production of the movie to playing it in your house and Blu-ray provides them this total control. I don't like it one bit.
Well the DiscoVision legacy does carry on in a slightly different role, but still dealing with laser optical media.
Check out this link
http://www.discovision.com/
Here is some videos of disk fanfare from DiscoVision disks. It kind of trips you out...especially the Side 2 marker...wow!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exPu5S6IdLs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlHafcHVdKk&feature=related
RCA had a competing system called the CED Video Disk. It was an analog system that actually used a stylus. They thought it would be cheaper to produce and it was, but it came out way too late to make a difference and in the end never took off much like DiscoVision/LaserDisk. VHS pretty much rolled over everything in it's path in the 1980's. I think it enterted the market in 1981. Anyhow here is RCA's Selectavision CED disk system fanfare from the disks. I think it is really cool.
First fanfare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPspEe4GCGc&feature=related
Later fanfare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHlaDT4gG8I&feature=related
Last, a commercial for the RCA Video Disk player. It is funny that they brag about no other video product ever selling as well it's first year, but even though it was doing well at first it ended up being a commercial failure in the end. So I guess never say never about what will live and die in the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkPXIxFdWuQ
and one in operation today...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDskCvk6Uo&feature=related
So there are a couple of long forgotten disk formats for you. I figure if we can't agree on the current format war we might as well talk a little about the history of video on disk.