I guess the iPad will have its arse kicked

[mlblacy]

Not trying, yet you succeed...

Have you guys seem the specs of the new Motorola Xoom, and it is open...

Not trying to be a troll, I do have an iPad 3G 64.

I meant kicked.

Yawn, oh great... New iPad coming soon, so the blather begins again. Might I suggest you run to EBay and sell the iPad you " have", and purchase the one you... Oh wait, it isn't out yet. Never mind, sell it anyhow, and please stop telling us all about the why.

I could barely stomach the forums when the first iPad was announced as the trolls came out from under their bridges in droves, and so I guess it is going to happen again. Great.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Moogyman]

iPad apps

Clearly IPad apps have to specific to their platform, and this is what makes them great. To make apps universal not only takes time but requires compromise. compromise is not a philosophy that sits well with apple and they have prospered as a result of this. From a purely user based perspective, the apps and games on the iPad provide a superior experience, and even transcends to the point where you do not have to think to use the device. This is testemount to good design. I have owned many devices in the past and I have to say that I have not experienced any device as slick as the iPad (iPhone), not even the mighty Psion 3 can match it's ease of use.
It's true With an Android you can surf the web, read magazines and books, do emails etc, but unlocking the power of these revolutionary devices comes in the form of the other Apps and Apple is streets ahead in this aspect. a big deal is made of the word 'Open' when describing Android and the like, however for me this experience equals poor glitchy apps with with very little variety. It's true you get what you pay for, and for me I would rather pay £2.99 and have something worth having.

 

[Winni]

Have you guys seem the specs of the new Motorola Xoom, and it is open...

Not trying to be a troll, I do have an iPad 3G 64.

I meant kicked.

In the end, openness always wins. Apple's platform could become the de facto standard if they licensed iOS to the rest of the industry. But since their entire business model evolves around selling status symbols, that's never going to happen. So, the old Windows vs Mac OS (X) history will repeat itself, and Apple will stay in its (at the moment rather lucrative) niche.

Unless Microsoft somehow lands a huge surprise hit with Windows 8, Android will inevitably become the industry standard for tablets, smartphones and even netbooks. The iPad only had a head start, but so had the Mac back in 1984 and we all know what platform eventually reached the 90% market share.

People just don't want to be forced to buy everything from one vendor. It's as simple as that.

 

[BergerFan]

Unless Microsoft somehow lands a huge surprise hit with Windows 8, Android will inevitably become the industry standard for tablets, smartphones and even netbooks. The iPad only had a head start, but so had the Mac back in 1984 and we all know what platform eventually reached the 90% market share.

The only difference, here, is that Jobs was long gone and Apple had no innovative direction, just at the time(late 80's to late '90's) when PC's became ubiquitous.
They were also sidetracked in a failed attempt to sue Microsoft, which also halted any innovation, whilst Microsoft carried on improving regardless.
Of course, the Windows strategy might have payed off irrespective of wether Jobs was there or not, but I'm sure the marketshare would be a lot more balanced today.
I got my first PC in 1994(after having 8 & 16bit home computers from 1986). I wasn't even aware of Apple ever being relevant, until 1999.

 

[BaldiMac]

In the end, openness always wins.

That's why Linux is the number one desktop OS.

Apple's platform could become the de facto standard if they licensed iOS to the rest of the industry.

Why? What would change? We might have some free models instead of $49? Isn't that irrelevant when you are signing a two year contract at $70/month?

But since their entire business model evolves around selling status symbols, that's never going to happen.

Way to confuse fact with opinion.

So, the old Windows vs Mac OS (X) history will repeat itself, and Apple will stay in its (at the moment rather lucrative) niche.

Even though though the two situations have almost nothing in common.

Unless Microsoft somehow lands a huge surprise hit with Windows 8, Android will inevitably become the industry standard for tablets, smartphones and even netbooks.

Inevitably? Why? It will likely be the most popular, but what are the barriers to switching? Why do we need an "industry standard"?

The iPad only had a head start, but so had the Mac back in 1984 and we all know what platform eventually reached the 90% market share.

The Mac never had more than 20% market share.

People just don't want to be forced to buy everything from one vendor. It's as simple as that.

What are you talking about? Buying an iOS device doesn't force you to buy "everything from one vendor." If you are talking about enterprise, than IT often uses the single vendor solution. Microsoft being the key example. Exchange, Windows, Office.

 

[KeithJenner]

People just don't want to be forced to buy everything from one vendor. It's as simple as that.

But nobody is forcing them.

What Apple is doing is offering a group of products that work well together. As a result, there is a benefit in buying it from one manufacturer, but you make the choice if that is what you want.

We don't know for sure whether people want it or not, because it hasn't previously been tried to the level that Apple have now reached. However, there is good reason to think that a significant number of people are willing to do this.

Having gone through years of trying to make Windows systems do what I want (ultimately unsuccessfully), I can see the benefit in focussing on Apple as a manufacturer. My issue with Windows isn't the system itself, but the openness, which promises so much, but ultimately always failed to deliver for me. Knowing that everything fits together so well, be it audio/video or software, is the most significant development in my near on 30 years of computing.

 

[anfield11]

Yeah, no kidding. In the MP3 player market, there's the iPod, and then there's 'everything else'. In the tablet market, there's the iPad, and then there's 'everything else' (*crickets*).



lmao



Yeah, all the people I know who got an iPad for Christmas are really looking for a device that also has these things. If Apple doesn't make a 'revised notification system' they will totally implode.

'Significantly improved OS over iPad's iOS 4.2' as measured by criteria relevant only to tech nerds. You might as well tell someone to start using Linux since it's 'so much better' than Windows or OSX. You are out to lunch if you think these things matter to people who want an iPad. Nobody cares about whatever tablet is out there except a minority of gadget obsessives.

The consumer choice is not 'which tablet should I buy?', it's 'should I buy an iPad or not?'

Exactly. I think [am sure] that those that come out with all this Apple better look out crap, because this tablet/phone or that tablet/phone you can do this or that with the O/S as it's "open" are techies/geeks. 95% of consumers aren't interested in that and all they want to do is buy something that works and works well and is well made and beautifully designed. That's why it works and that's why they sell so much....end of.

I'd also suggest that if you make a living in IT which most techies/geeks do that the last thing you want is products that actually work. That said, I know a few techies that curse PC's and have nothing but Mac products at home....maybe they don't like taking their work home!?

 

[smiddlehurst]

In the end, openness always wins. Apple's platform could become the de facto standard if they licensed iOS to the rest of the industry.

No, sorry, what would happen is Apple would kill their own business model and STILL loose to Android.

Look, why do geeks fail to understand Apple has NO interest in being the market leader by volume? It knows damn well it can't do that, it's just not possible for a single manufacturer to dominate volume sales when competing against a platform that's supported by many manufacturers. Instead Apple is MORE than happy to dominate the high end of the market and actually make a decent profit margain. And THAT'S where the theory that Apple should licence iOS falls down spectuacularly.

Let's say they do just that complete with a minimum spec. How do those that licence it make their products stand out? They drop the price to undercut Apple, they'd have to as the OS is only licenced, they wouldn't necessarily be able to add stuff at the base level such as file system access to add features to their products. Great, except what you've just done is trigger a race to the bottom and you only have to look at the PC market to see how THAT turns out. Tiny profit margains, utter reliance on volume sales... and Apple would HAVE to join in that race in order to keep its sales up. Yeah they would have the licence money but that's going to be a lot less than they earn off making the whole product. Worse, it would also diminish the value of iOS as the end user experience simply wouldn't be as solid as it is now with the cheaper products innevitably having a slightly worse feel than Apple's own.

And here's the rub... the odds are they'd either have to drop the licence cost down to stupidly low levels or risk loosing the volume market anyway as it's difficult to compete when Google is willing to let Android out for free.

So you tell me, if you're running Apple, would you honestly push the company down a path with such obvious problems or would you rather continue to be at the head of the industry, one of the very few tech companies to really make a decent profit margain and, to boot, more-or-less THE most influential tech company on the planet?

 

[CrAkD]

Why does no one learn? I watched ces very closely and there was nothing about that honeycomb teaser video that blew me away. Everyone says this about every new android anything yet apple continues to compete. Completely dessimate tablets with the iPad and manage to fight off the 100s of android phones across like 6 carriers well having 1 phone on 1 carrier here in the u.s. If the VERIZON iPhone really gets announced tomorrow he scales will tip back in apples favor very quickly.

 

[uberamd]

People just don't want to be forced to buy everything from one vendor. It's as simple as that.

You, sir, are drastically overestimating the amount people give a rats @$$ about buying from a single vendor. Your average customer, the mass majority of customers, don't care at all.

They want a good product, whether it be from Microsoft, Google, or Apple. Vendor lockin doesn't scare average customers. Average customers don't give a crap about open, this generation doesn't give a crap about GPL, they just want functionality and a nice user experience!

 

[fehhkk]

I played with a Samsung Galaxy tab for about half an hour, and this is probably the most likely competitor with the iPad.

My problem with it, is the Android user experience. Laggy scrolling, and slow reaction to inputs. That killed it for me.

I really hope the Motorola Xoom tablet ups the ante the iPad needs to have a serious, truly worthy competitor.

 

[ravenloft81]

But nobody is forcing them.

What Apple is doing is offering a group of products that work well together. As a result, there is a benefit in buying it from one manufacturer, but you make the choice if that is what you want.

We don't know for sure whether people want it or not, because it hasn't previously been tried to the level that Apple have now reached. However, there is good reason to think that a significant number of people are willing to do this.

Having gone through years of trying to make Windows systems do what I want (ultimately unsuccessfully), I can see the benefit in focussing on Apple as a manufacturer. My issue with Windows isn't the system itself, but the openness, which promises so much, but ultimately always failed to deliver for me. Knowing that everything fits together so well, be it audio/video or software, is the most significant development in my near on 30 years of computing.

I agree. I switched to Mac for this reason. My wife has a 1999 G3 iMac that she was getting more done on, and having more fun on than I was my PC that was being kept fairly up-to-date and running Windows/Linux dual boot. Why? Because I'd spend hours dealing with this instability or that conflict, etc... Ultimate example. True story (gods I wish I were making this up!) Norton Speed Disc, I was told by their tech support when I called to find out why it was taking over a day to defrag something like 5Gb of data: The graphics card I had. Apparently the rivaTNT graphics cards, somehow, slowed down a DISC DEFRAGMENTER!! Not even one with neat visual effects like Drive Genius 2.2 has. No, good ol' Norton System Works 2000 or such.

I got tired of diverting precious RAM and CPU to run ever bulkier AntiVirus and AntiMalware. I got tired of the fact that if I install this interesting game, this neat tool suddenly didn't work because of some corruption in the Registry. In Linux's case I can't install it because the game requires LibXYZ which conflicts with the LibABC that the tool uses, but isn't the same thing and so I simply can't have them both installed at once (Generalisation due to not remembering specifics. I've had this happen a number of times).

I bought a used PB a few years ago. Until very recently I could run anything I wanted, and still can run many things. Developers are moving away from Universal Binary, sadly, but oh well. Their fault, not Apple's. I plan to get an Intel Apple eventually. I use them because I've never had the trouble above. I've never had a program that wouldn't work because I had something else installed, or a program that wouldn't perform right because of this bit or that bit of IRRELEVANT hardware.

Do I care that I have to use iTunes to sync my iPod/iPad? No. Why? Because it's easier. I have a Zen Stone. I don't use it. Drag and drop isn't as simple, actually, because now I've got to dig through my music collection looking for what I want to copy over. My iPod I just tell iTunes "Do this" and it does.

As for people saying I'm locked into something. No, I can quit using it. If it ever starts to suck, I will, in a heartbeat. I dropped Linux in less than a day, Windows in less than an hour (the time between deciding I wasn't going to use it anymore and shutting it down for the last time) -- I'm good at migrating. Though I must ask -- locked in how?

I could get apps that aren't from the app store. I could get a .ipa file and import it into iTunes, or I could jailbrake it if I felt so inclined. The iPhones are unlocked so they don't HAVE to be used on AT&T, but they work better on it than T-Mobile. I have 4629 songs in iTunes. less than 100 of them come from the store. over 1000 of them I ripped from CDs, the rest are MP3s I've bought through other places (or more to the point were free offers from here and there, and Rhyme Torrents, etc...). I have about a half dozen movies. Only one came from iTunes, the rest I ripped off a DVD with Handbrake. Just because I've got to run iTunes to put them on my device is just... oh well... so I've got to use this software to communicate with this device. I've been using computers for 20 years. I'm quite used to it. I don't even see the complaint about iTunes. I've always preferred that model for managing my music. Used to use Real Jukebox, then Juk, then Amarok, now iTunes. Beats the way WinAmp and XMMS did it, and Windows Media player has never been anything but an over bloated joke (true, I've NEVER seen it past v9. but since v1 - 9 were over bloated junk and only ever got progressively worse, I feel safe in the assumption that whatever version they're on is just as bad).

I've tinkered with a Droid phone. My exact response was "Oh. Wow, it's like an iPhone, but bigger, uglier, less shiny. Ok." There was not one single thing about it that mattered to me that was different from iOS. Does this make one better than the other? Yeah, actually, the HARDWARE for the Droid phone was so unimpressive that I decided that, should I ever see what good a smartphone is, I'll get an iPhone. And if that day should ever come and I can't afford one or I don't want to use AT&T... hopefully there'll be an un-ugly Droid phone finally.

 

[Tunster]

Because I'd spend hours dealing with this instability or that conflict, etc...

I think this part of your post sums it all works. I get the feeling ultimate geeks are scared just to used something simple that works and not give up the products that are unstable that gives them control.

Being honest. I used to be like that. Fiddling with Windows, Linux, Android or anything that's open source. I still do, but only for work. Personally, I like to get on and not have to repair or reinstall drivers ever week.

Apple products and do exactly what they say on the tin. The iPad just does that.

 

[bmb012]

In the end, openness always wins. Apple's platform could become the de facto standard if they licensed iOS to the rest of the industry. But since their entire business model evolves around selling status symbols, that's never going to happen. So, the old Windows vs Mac OS (X) history will repeat itself, and Apple will stay in its (at the moment rather lucrative) niche.

Unless Microsoft somehow lands a huge surprise hit with Windows 8, Android will inevitably become the industry standard for tablets, smartphones and even netbooks. The iPad only had a head start, but so had the Mac back in 1984 and we all know what platform eventually reached the 90% market share.

People just don't want to be forced to buy everything from one vendor. It's as simple as that.

Yeah, sure, that's why PC gaming is trouncing console gaming?

When you talk about these things like what they really are, devices with purposes, endless possibility doesn't mean anything if at the end of the day, the vast majority of people will do less with an open device than they could with a closed one.

 

[tbayrgs]

Being in the UK also (we should team up!!!)

I must admit to being baffled why the iPhone4 which has been out since middle last year being available on just another network would even make the news.

In the UK if the iPhone was only on the 02 network and then 6 months later it was on Orange, or Vodaphone, then it would be like "oh ok" and that's it.

Wow, so the same phone it going to be available on a different network. Big whoop de do.

I'll tell you why:

Total Population of the UK: approx. 62 million
Total Verizon wireless subscribers (USA): 92 million

So essentially getting the iPhone on Verizon is the equivalent of all carriers in the UK, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland getting the iPhone. Seems like a big deal to me.

 

[yodaxl7]

In the end, openness always wins. Apple's platform could become the de facto standard if they licensed iOS to the rest of the industry. But since their entire business model evolves around selling status symbols, that's never going to happen. So, the old Windows vs Mac OS (X) history will repeat itself, and Apple will stay in its (at the moment rather lucrative) niche.

Unless Microsoft somehow lands a huge surprise hit with Windows 8, Android will inevitably become the industry standard for tablets, smartphones and even netbooks. The iPad only had a head start, but so had the Mac back in 1984 and we all know what platform eventually reached the 90% market share.

People just don't want to be forced to buy everything from one vendor. It's as simple as that.

It is not about openness, but rather strategy. Windows os is not open. Microsoft is software company that sold its window os to many manufactures who create a variety of hardware. Microsoft provide some content like Office. It is about having apps that would decide the bigger share of the market. Right now, Apple is the winner. Open sys. introduces more problems, ie. fragmentation, viruses, etc. Both Apple and Google are winning the race. Between them, who knows.

Xbox 360, ps3,nintendo are all closed system. They are doing great!! Right now, xbox has more variety of CONTENT then ps3 or nintendo. Nintendo started out with better price point!

Open sys. do not always win!

Apple is the leader in setting the trend, i.e. iPhone, iPad, iPod, macbook air. Android is just another player in the market.

Guess, the question, who wins: software company or hardware. Windows won before. Apple would have won before, but did not have much content. Most software or apps were for windows. This is still true today, but not as much. Apple now has some leverage. Apple does both hardware and software: total package. Apple is relying on the "halo effect". It is working. I was a pc guy. I like my iphone which in turn bought the iPad and a macbook pro.

 

[jamesryanbell]

If Apple doesn't release something very impressive with iOS5, they are going to be irrelevant in the tablet market.

WILL NOT HAPPEN. No way.

 

[PCClone]

Android officially is more popular than iPhone now, and that trend is continuing.

Honeycomb has shown to be a significantly improved OS over iPad's iOS 4.2. Just as Froyo and Gingerbread are well ahead of iPhone's iOS 4.2.

If you think the iPad is going to be the king of tablets for long, you'd be mistaken.

That is, unless Apple finally decides to change some base functions of their mobile OS.

Hard to take you serious with a name like yours.

 

[yodaxl7]

Fist of all, watch this video from the Verizon press conference at CES: Honeycomb Preview

Now compare this with the iPad in terms of the OS alone. There's a lot of app-specific functionality that is better for one or the other (such as google maps for Honeycomb, iBooks for iOS), but that's not really part of the OS.

1) Home screen: Honeycomb > iOS

Why: Search button. Honeycomb has a legitimate desktop with customizable content. Optional widgets (that actually look really handy, re: gmail/calender widget). Shortcuts to much more than just apps. For the fanboys: if you think the iOS home screen is "all you need", well the Honeycomb home screen can be just app icons too.

2) Browser: Honeycomb > iOS

Why: Honeycomb has actual tabbed browsing and can optionally support flash.

3) Multitasking: Honeycomb > iOS

Why: Both use fast-app switching. Honeycomb shows a vertical list of thumbnails with the current app state (seriously, watch the video, it looks fantastic).

4) Notifications: Honeycomb > iOS

Why: You know why.

Considering that the functionality of both OSes are pretty similar, Honeycomb is clearly a class above iOS. Google really changed parts of Android so that certain functions work more appropriately for a tablet. iOS on the iPad is identical to iOS on the iPhone.

If you have followed the development of iOS thus far, you will also know that iOS 5 will not bring enough improvements to match what Honeycomb has already demonstrated (Apple tends to add only 1 or 2 major features per release).

That said, the iPad (2) will still sell spectacularly. It's built well, has amazing battery life, has the fully-developed app store, and is perceived well by consumers. It will sell well because it's the easy choice and most people are familiar with it. While it's clearly out-classed by Honeycomb, it's still at least 90% as good so it's other strengths will make up the difference.

Bottom line: Honeycomb is better than iOS 4, will be better than iOS 5, but the iPad (2) will still be the most popular and best-selling tablet of 2011. Guess that means everybody wins, right?

It is not fair comparison since the honeycomb is not out yet officially. Plus, it is running on a next generation of hardware system. iPad 2 is not out yet nor its upgrade os. We need to compare ios 5.0 vs. Honeycomb!! Neither one are out in the wild. Honeycomb and its tablets are vaporware for now. For now, iPad is the king!!

P.S. Honeycomb is coming to phones, too. ios for phone is not identical to that of tablet. apps for tablet is total different that of the phone. Honeycomb is a revamp(froyo to gingerbread, i.e.) os for both phone and tablet.

 

[davidcmc]

ios for phone is not identical to that of tablet. apps for tablet is total different that of the phone

He was talking about the OS itself, not it's 3rd party apps.

The iOS itself is basically the same **** in iPhone, iPod touch and iPad.
Same features, same resources, same original apps, same everything.

To be honest, the only thing different is the hardware.

 

[Night Spring]

The iOS itself is basically the same **** in iPhone, iPod touch and iPad.
Same features, same resources, same original apps, same everything.

To be honest, the only thing different is the hardware.

Well, not the *only* thing. For instance, on the iPad, the homepage rotates, while the iPhone homepage is fixed in one orientation. Also, iPad apps can have pop-over boxes, which is an OS-level function not available for iPhone apps. And calendar app for iPad looks like a real desktop calendar, instead of being so tiny as on the iPhone. But overall, you are right, in that the differences are slight. And being the same as the iPhone does have an advantage, in that if you know how to use one iOS device, you know how to use them all. You don't have to relearn new gestures and other command conventions in order to use an iPad if you are moving up from an iPhone or iPod touch. I might give android or blackberry tablets a try just to see how they go, but I've already got my mom and boss trained on iOS, and I'm not recommending they move on to any other mobile platform until I'm convinced they match or surpass iOS in ease of use.

 

[Piggie]

I'll tell you why:

Total Population of the UK: approx. 62 million
Total Verizon wireless subscribers (USA): 92 million

So essentially getting the iPhone on Verizon is the equivalent of all carriers in the UK, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland getting the iPhone. Seems like a big deal to me.

What I mean is, in the UK on Orange and you want a new phone, but that phone is only on 02, you just get the phone on 02 and leave Orange. No big deal.

If a phone is not on Verizon why don't you just leave Verizon and get the phone you want on the network that does have the phone?

What's the big deal?

 

[Night Spring]

What I mean is, in the UK on Orange and you want a new phone, but that phone is only on 02, you just get the phone on 02 and leave Orange. No big deal.

If a phone is not on Verizon why don't you just leave Verizon and get the phone you want on the network that does have the phone?

What's the big deal?

They don't have ETF in the UK?

Also, some areas don't have AT&T coverage, or some people are on family or corporate plans and cannot switch.

 

[Built]

Android officially is more popular than iPhone now, and that trend is continuing.

Honeycomb has shown to be a significantly improved OS over iPad's iOS 4.2. Just as Froyo and Gingerbread are well ahead of iPhone's iOS 4.2.

If you think the iPad is going to be the king of tablets for long, you'd be mistaken.

That is, unless Apple finally decides to change some base functions of their mobile OS.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Piggie]

They don't have ETF in the UK?

Also, some areas don't have AT&T coverage, or some people are on family or corporate plans and cannot switch.

Sorry, I don't know what EFT is.