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Nozuka

macrumors 68040
Jul 3, 2012
3,527
5,996
Think twice! DO NOT BUY AN IPAD. After the iPhone X the next logical step is the bezel-less iPad X without a Home button. All previous iPads will instantly look old and dated. It's exactly the same situation as with the iPhone 6, 6s, 6ss (7) and 6sss (8). Despite all technological progress the iPad form factor hasn't changed in four years since the first Air in 2013. I wouldn't buy anotherone of these and you can bet the entry price of future iPads will go up up'n'away ...

i guess you missed the 10,5" ipad?
 
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Cuesca

macrumors regular
Jun 20, 2012
117
148
Not much of a difference between my 7 Plus Jet Black 128gb which was $899. I hardly used the 128gb on my 7+, I topped out at around 30GB this with a 2-3 seasons of shows for those long flights. I am debating that a 64gb X would be more than enough for my needs. One thing I hated about the Plus was the size, which makes dialing one handed difficult.
 

trifid

macrumors 68020
May 10, 2011
2,070
4,945
Only way I would stand the notch fiasco is if it came on iPhone SE 2. I love that form factor.
 

pixel_junkie

macrumors 6502
Oct 31, 2015
404
419
In my opinion there should be no iPhone 8 and we should have only the X as a new model, priced as the 7 was last year. That would be a bit more acceptable, no?

You're looking at it from a stand point of a consumer while Apple is after max profit.

They give you an X and bump the base price by about a third. Die hard fans will eat that up like hot cakes for sure. For the financially challenged, they give you an 8 and have you swap your 7 or a 6 for essentially the same phone the same way the 7 was to the 6.

Why would they innovate and spend big money on development?

It's kind of like Rolex and Harley Davidson. No innovation, they sell you antiques but people buy them at premium prices anyway.

There is literally nothing "new" in the new iPhone. And by the way, who is Apple targeting exactly with their OS changes? Animoji? I imagine if you're 13, this could be fun a few times. How about useful stuff like customizable gesture control or for g. sake, let people pick default apps already.

Then again, why do anything new if every third Apple users goes "if it ain't broke, don't change it - now shut up and take my money"
 
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Sugadaddy

macrumors 6502
Aug 28, 2010
257
169
They have a shortage of OLED. This thing was never going to sell at the normal price point. Not in hells chance.

Shortage? Samsung has had OLED screens in their phones for years. LG is making some now too. There's no groundbreaking technology in the iPhone X to warrant the price hike.

You can charge more for something if you're the first to market with it. If you're playing catchup and you charge more, then it's called a ripoff.
 
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Sparky2012

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2012
486
279
United Kingdom
I just don’t feel the 8 is remotely competitive at the moment.

Fair enough, but I disagree for the most part. I believe with the 8 (mostly 8 Plus tbh) you're getting just about everything -or more- than the Note 8 has aside from an OLED display:

- Fastest performance on the market
- Gigabit LTE
- Best/Almost best rear cameras on the market for smartphones
- Up to date OS
- Fast Charging
- Wireless Charging
- Fingerprint scanning
- Stereo speakers
- Waterproofing
- Contactless Payment (NFC)
- Some of the best Haptic Feedback on the market

I fail to see what Apple are lacking with the 8 Plus compared to Samsung's latest phones. You could argue Fast Charging as you have to pay out for the accessories to do that, SD Card Slot, and as I mentioned the OLED display.
 

Wags

macrumors 68020
Mar 5, 2006
2,155
1,638
Nebraska, USA
Apple has low confidence in the iPhone X. Hence why the iphone 8 exists , as a "backup".

The X is a prototype at best
Apple on releases what they want not what they could. Honestly believe holding back technology/design that is ready. Sales 101, I guess. Always save something for next time and keep them wanting more.
 

dexterie

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 4, 2015
223
176
BE, EU
Shortage? Samsung has had OLED screens in their phones for years. LG is making some now too. There's no groundbreaking technology in the iPhone X to warrant the price hike.

You can charge more for something if you're the first to market with it. If you're playing catchup and you charge more, then it's called a ripoff.

And I guess Samsung will reserve their best/latest displays for their own phones...
 

Nozuka

macrumors 68040
Jul 3, 2012
3,527
5,996
I've just had a look - all the current iPads have home buttons. What's your point?

it's a new form factor and you said "Despite all technological progress the iPad form factor hasn't changed in four years since the first Air in 2013."

it changed from 9,7 to 10,5 while barely getting bigger
 

dexterie

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 4, 2015
223
176
BE, EU
What I meant with the iPad comment was that there isn't any decent alternative in the market right now. Not that I would recommend it because of its form factor or whatever. I was talking about being comfortable to recommend/buy without much to worry about because I know there isn't a valid alternative.

The same doesn't happen with the current generation iPhones. Specially considering the price tag of the X(clusive).
 

Sugadaddy

macrumors 6502
Aug 28, 2010
257
169
And I guess Samsung will reserve their best/latest displays for their own phones...

Of course they will.

Apple bought a CPU company years ago so they could eventually make their own CPUs for iPhones and iPads. Maybe they could've invested a bit of that gazillion dollars they have in the bank to make screens instead of being dependent on their competitors.

Poor long-term vision, now Samsung and LG have nicer edge to edge designs.
 

dexterie

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 4, 2015
223
176
BE, EU
Of course they will.

Apple bought a CPU company years ago so they could eventually make their own CPUs for iPhones and iPads. Maybe they could've invested a bit of that gazillion dollars they have in the bank to make screens instead of being dependent on their competitors.

Poor long-term vision, now Samsung and LG have nicer edge to edge designs.

Apple will surprise us all, in a few years, with something that we can't just not buy.
 

jamesrick80

macrumors 68030
Sep 12, 2014
2,659
2,216
Fair enough, but I disagree for the most part. I believe with the 8 (mostly 8 Plus tbh) you're getting just about everything -or more- than the Note 8 has aside from an OLED display:

- Fastest performance on the market
- Gigabit LTE
- Best/Almost best rear cameras on the market for smartphones
- Up to date OS
- Fast Charging
- Wireless Charging
- Fingerprint scanning
- Stereo speakers
- Waterproofing
- Contactless Payment (NFC)
- Some of the best Haptic Feedback on the market

I fail to see what Apple are lacking with the 8 Plus compared to Samsung's latest phones. You could argue Fast Charging as you have to pay out for the accessories to do that, SD Card Slot, and as I mentioned the OLED display.

How can you fail to see the S pen capabilities, the VR support, the DeX support, the several biometric unlock methods, the better display at 3k with over 500+ ppi and brighter screen, ip 68 waterproof, Bixby vision, better low light camera, split screen capabilities, larger more immersive Display, 6 gb ram , microsd card support, real flawless navigation, beautiful UX, virtual under screen home button with haptic feedback, true file manager, mouse support....and almost everything else you stated in your post.

Apple is lacking all of this...clearly.
 

jclardy

macrumors 601
Oct 6, 2008
4,138
4,318
Apple has low confidence in the iPhone X. Hence why the iphone 8 exists , as a "backup".

The X is a prototype at best
Yeah, this is going to be completely backwards once sales stats are released for this next quarter. The X is going to be constantly out of stock, while the 8 will be a walk in deal. I'd take a bet that you can just walk in after any Apple Store opens to buy one next Friday.

The real reason for the 8 and the X is production scale. There just isn't enough OLED production capacity in the world to satisfy the demand of a "normal" priced iPhone with OLED. The 8 lets people upgrade like normal, and the X is there to test the waters on new stuff that they can't produce fast enough.
 

spooky23

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2013
541
330
Epping
How can you fail to see the S pen capabilities, the VR support, the DeX support, the several biometric unlock methods, the better display at 3k with over 500+ ppi and brighter screen, ip 68 waterproof, Bixby vision, better low light camera, split screen capabilities, larger more immersive Display, 6 gb ram , microsd card support, real flawless navigation, beautiful UX, virtual under screen home button with haptic feedback, true file manager, mouse support....and almost everything else you stated in your post.

Apple is lacking all of this...clearly.


This is why I choose Apple over Android. Personally, this is just me, it's overkill with the amount of stuff you can do on some of their phones. I appreciate some want the options and flexibility. I guess I prefer a slick, fluid glorified app launcher myself.
 
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exexs

macrumors member
Mar 12, 2015
56
70
Paris, France
I don't understand the path for next year, and the year after. They will always keep an "outdated" phone in the line up and try to sell it at +- 800$ and have a real "up to date" phone at +- 1000$ ? This does not make sense at all. So what? Next year there will be only one phone, replacing the X and it means iPhones will always cost +- 1000$ now? Apple is already loosing the market in Asia to competitors and soon it's going to be the same in Europe and maybe America. Don't forget that in many countries the iPhone X cost the equivalent of 1377,55$ ! (1159EUR for most european countries). More than a Macbook Pro. More than an iPad Pro + an Apple Watch together. More than a Canon EOS 80D. More than.. (you got the point).
 

Sparky2012

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2012
486
279
United Kingdom
How can you fail to see the S pen capabilities, the VR support, the DeX support, the several biometric unlock methods, the better display at 3k with over 500+ ppi and brighter screen, ip 68 waterproof, Bixby vision, better low light camera, split screen capabilities, larger more immersive Display, 6 gb ram , microsd card support, real flawless navigation, beautiful UX, virtual under screen home button with haptic feedback....and almost everything else you stated in your post.

Look I know from your previous posts you hate Apple and it's products, so I'm just gonna say now, im not getting into a debate or argument here. Im gonna reply and if you agree/disagree then cool.

Sure, the S Pen has some great uses but most people don't want or care for a stylus but for those that really want one, the Note 8 is one of the few choices out there.

VR Support - well it's cool and to me a slight gimmick, but I don't think it's lead to any amazing experiences. Neither have PlayStation VR, or Oculus yet though. Time will tell on this. At least the option is there. Apple are going AR and this seems to have more real world uses currently than VR.

DeX support - Some will love that and I can't knock it. Nice to have one device do everything for those that want it.

The biometric options on the Note 8 are terrible - Face scanning unsecure, iris scanning fails to work in several scenarios and takes too long for the average user to bother with it, the fingerprint scanner while great is in a horrible position.

The displays have always been great on Samsung phones and it continues to be on the Note 8. OLED is superior to LCD, yes. Against the X it has better brightness and resolution but we don't know how well the X OLED screen will compete until it's out aside from those factors. Against the 8/8 Plus the Note 8 is far superior on screen.

Cameras hard to say which is better now since the new iPhones haven't been compared against the Note 8 yet. The Note 8 from what I've seen takes amazing photos.

IP68 - Cool, slightly better than iPhones.

Bixby Vision - Less said about Bixby and Siri the better.

Split Screen - Nice to have. Will come to iPhone in near future though.

The 6gb RAM point is mute cause recent iPhone's perform similarly in terms of holding apps in memory with half the amount due to optimisation.

Micro SD card support - Can't fault it, can be very handy. iPhone has never had it and it isn't a huge problem for most.

Flawless navigation? I don't think any smartphone has that. Most phones do navigation well but none are flawless.

Beautiful UX - Down to personal preference.

Virtual under screen home button with haptic feedback - Good, but home button on iPhone while not under screen is a virtual button and tends to simulate the click of a button better. Apple haptic feedback is on another level compared to the Note 8.

Note (pun not intended) I don't hate Samsung or any other phone manufacturer. My favourite is Apple sure. I feel like Samsung software is their weakest part of their products and that's gonna take some fixing for me to even consider them.
 
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Lunfai

macrumors 68000
Nov 21, 2010
1,566
519
Sheffield
Shortage? Samsung has had OLED screens in their phones for years. LG is making some now too. There's no groundbreaking technology in the iPhone X to warrant the price hike.

You can charge more for something if you're the first to market with it. If you're playing catchup and you charge more, then it's called a ripoff.

You have to remember that they (LG and SAMSUNG) have the factories to manufacture the screens themselves. I’m pretty sure that this would imply increase components for not only the screen itself but all of the different parts that make the iPhone up. Of course it’s still over priced but you have to take it into consideration.
 

MacCheeseLai

macrumors member
Mar 17, 2014
79
26
LLLLLAAAA
Seriously now: let's step back and look at the whole picture.

In my opinion there should be no iPhone 8 and we should have only the X as a new model, priced as the 7 was last year. That would be a bit more acceptable, no?

If the X wasn't so expensive and was 100% screen it would be more of a selling point for me. I am looking to upgrade my 6plus so I decided to stick to what I know and buy a 8plus and see how the X handles itself out there in rl. I did the same with the iPad Pro, waited for the latest gen before spending the $$. It would be wonderful in the X's next gen if they went 100% screen and created a realistic price for it.
 
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jamesrick80

macrumors 68030
Sep 12, 2014
2,659
2,216
Look I know from your previous posts you hate Apple and it's products, so I'm just gonna say now, im not getting into a debate or argument here. Im gonna reply and if you agree/disagree then cool.

Sure, the S Pen has some great uses but most people don't want or care for a stylus but for those that really want one, the Note 8 is one of the few choices out there.

The biometric options on the Note 8 are terrible - Face scanning unsecure, iris scanning fails to work in several scenarios and takes too long for the average user to bother with it, the fingerprint scanner while great is in a horrible position.

The displays have always been great on Samsung phones and it continues to be on the Note 8. OLED is superior to LCD, yes. Against the X it has better brightness and resolution but we don't know how well the X OLED screen will compete until it's out aside from those factors. Against the 8/8 Plus the Note 8 is far superior on screen.

The 6gb RAM point is mute cause recent iPhone's perform similarly in terms of holding apps in memory with half the amount due to optimisation.

Micro SD card support - Can't fault it, can be very handy. iPhone has never had it and it isn't a huge problem for most.

Flawless navigation? I don't think any smartphone has that. Most phones do navigation well but none are flawless.

Beautiful UX - Down to personal preference.

Virtual under screen home button with haptic feedback - Good, but home button on iPhone while not under screen is a virtual button and tends to simulate the click of a button better. Apple haptic feedback is on another level compared to the Note 8.

Note (pun not intended) I don't hate Samsung or any other phone manufacturer. My favourite is Apple sure. I feel like Samsung software is their weakest part of their products and that's gonna take some fixing for me to even consider them.

If many people don't want a S pen (smart stylus) then the Note 8 would not be selling better than any Note in history so that assertion you made is null and void. When you can do so much (remember iphones do the minimum and don't really want you to multitask) on a device, the 6 gb ram comes in handy especially with DeX, virtual reality, s pen capabilities, and true multitasking.

Furthermore, having more biometric options gives the consumer the choice to choose whats best for them so I rather have choice and see what works best for me (apple makes the choice for you guys; that sucks and they chose the notch design which sucks too). There are articles out there with the topic of multiple types of biometrics (multimodal biometrics) being the key to true security. One type is more unsecure than having multiple methods (different situations and scenarios call for different biometric capabilities).

Time and time again almost every biometric method has been hacked in some way or another so your unsecure assertions are null and void as well.The pin/password is the safest approach no matter what biometric device you use and is the only one protected by the Constitution. So the rest of your assertions are your opinions and I respect that. Thanks...

P.S. next year we will have the under the screen fingerprint scanner, iris scanner & 3D face recognition (multimodal biometrics) while you are stuck with just Face ID or pin.
 
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exexs

macrumors member
Mar 12, 2015
56
70
Paris, France
Look I know from your previous posts you hate Apple and it's products, so I'm just gonna say now, im not getting into a debate or argument here. Im gonna reply and if you agree/disagree then cool.

Sure, the S Pen has some great uses but most people don't want or care for a stylus but for those that really want one, the Note 8 is one of the few choices out there.

VR Support - well it's cool and to me a slight gimmick, but I don't think it's lead to any amazing experiences. Neither have PlayStation VR, or Oculus yet though. Time will tell on this. At least the option is there. Apple are going AR and this seems to have more real world uses currently than VR.

DeX support - Some will love that and I can't knock it. Nice to have one device do everything for those that want it.

The biometric options on the Note 8 are terrible - Face scanning unsecure, iris scanning fails to work in several scenarios and takes too long for the average user to bother with it, the fingerprint scanner while great is in a horrible position.

The displays have always been great on Samsung phones and it continues to be on the Note 8. OLED is superior to LCD, yes. Against the X it has better brightness and resolution but we don't know how well the X OLED screen will compete until it's out aside from those factors. Against the 8/8 Plus the Note 8 is far superior on screen.

The 6gb RAM point is mute cause recent iPhone's perform similarly in terms of holding apps in memory with half the amount due to optimisation.

Micro SD card support - Can't fault it, can be very handy. iPhone has never had it and it isn't a huge problem for most.

Flawless navigation? I don't think any smartphone has that. Most phones do navigation well but none are flawless.

Beautiful UX - Down to personal preference.

Virtual under screen home button with haptic feedback - Good, but home button on iPhone while not under screen is a virtual button and tends to simulate the click of a button better. Apple haptic feedback is on another level compared to the Note 8.

Note (pun not intended) I don't hate Samsung or any other phone manufacturer. My favourite is Apple sure. I feel like Samsung software is their weakest part of their products and that's gonna take some fixing for me to even consider them.

The fact is, Apple is following the competition on the hardware, not leading anymore. And that's a fact. I also think, lot of people are "hating" against Apple and the new iPhone X, but it doesn't mean they don't like Apple. In fact, I think they do, that is why the matter upset them. When you like a company and you see it making bad decisions, it is utterly upsetting. I agree with you, Android is the weakest part of the competition. For hardware I would go for Samsung, no doubt. The S8 costs 359 euro less in my country. That is 426USD difference. A difference that I pay just for iOS. And I love iOS, I am just not sure it's worth that much money. Hence the dilemma for a lot of people.
 

Gmas

macrumors member
Apr 21, 2010
65
11
I don't understand the path for next year, and the year after. They will always keep an "outdated" phone in the line up and try to sell it at +- 800$ and have a real "up to date" phone at +- 1000$ ? This does not make sense at all. So what? Next year there will be only one phone, replacing the X and it means iPhones will always cost +- 1000$ now? Apple is already loosing the market in Asia to competitors and soon it's going to be the same in Europe and maybe America. Don't forget that in many countries the iPhone X cost the equivalent of 1377,55$ ! (1159EUR for most european countries). More than a Macbook Pro. More than an iPad Pro + an Apple Watch together. More than a Canon EOS 80D. More than.. (you got the point).
I think after this year, all 'new' iPhones will be X-styled, and then they may keep a couple older cheaper models like the SE in the lineup. My guess would be for next year they do another 5.8" X-style phone, and then a slightly larger model too, with a screen size more similar to the S8+ and Note. So next year you have the revised X (XI?) at the same price point as this year's X, a larger version for more money, and then this year's X becomes cheaper. They likely keep the 8/8+ around too.
 
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