IBM Says Macs Are Up to $543 Less Expensive Than PCs Over Time

[Bubba Satori]

Ginni,

Thanks for the blurb.
Just as we scripted it.
The check is in the mail.
This should keep you in business a few more years.
Stay tuned.

XOXO,

The Timinator

 

[chevman]

My guess would be this is more a SSD versus non-SSD effect.

I work at a large company similar in size to IBM and the amount of crap IT puts on our laptops that runs constantly basically thrashes the hard drive non-stop. Anyone that has a computer with a non-SSD hard drive basically can't do anything without the thing crawling to a stop.

Upgrade to SSDs and the machine is usable again - have seen this on both the mac and PC side.

 

[Sam.021]

What I can tell you from my own experience is in a university with 2000+ students a good portion (around 80%) own Macs.

 

[62tele]

Strange but I have Mid 2010 27" iMac that still functions pretty well although it's obviously getting long the in the tooth. However it still handles my recording via Logic X, the complex Excel Spreadsheets I created, most of my video needs etc.

My 2011 11"MBA still works great!!!

They've both been workhorses.

Long ago, when I used PC's I frequently had to call geek friends to help me with the myriad of problems Windows would cause. Macs! They just work!!

 

[Soccertess]

While I believe this, did they account for dongle expenditures?

Also, could this be because Tim cook forgot to update macs and so there is nothing to upgrade too...

Both need to be considered in this type of analysis

It's weird, I have sworn by macs for so long, but Tim's line up is so unimpressive I have been looking at alternatives. My dream is Tim would just GTFO and I could remain an Apple customer.

 

[iZac]

My current 2011 Macbook Air (5 years old) is still running pretty smoothly. Similarly aged Thinkpad T420 models in my office have already been retired because they're simply too slow, the build quality is much worse and hardware fails more frequently.

 

[robbysibrahim]

Honestly, that part of the article is seriously questionable. I don't care how good Macs are - there is no way they can effectively have that kind of ratio. hardware failures alone across 90,000 macs would overwhelm those 5 admins.

That's five systems engineers. They have a much larger support team.

 

[TinyMac]

Hello, we are not updating Mac Pro AGAIN !

 

[Korican100]

If Apple hasn't released an updated version of the 2013 Mac Pro (Which is non-upgradeable), then yeah. You're going to save money because you have no options

I literally upgraded everything on my mac pro besides my graphics card

 

[Bubba Satori]

What I can tell you from my own experience is in a university with 2000+ students a good portion (around 80%) own Macs.

So, Think Different has become Think The Same.
That's courage for you.

 

[AllergyDoc]

"Dogs and cats living together..."

It's the end of times!

 

[cult hero]

The cost includes IT, which makes a lot of sense. I have transitioned almost everyone in my family from PCs to Macs—and we're talking stuff I score off Craig's List, nothing new—and I almost never get calls like this anymore, "Hey uhhhh... wanna come over for dinner like... tomorrow? Maybe check out what's wrong with my computer while I'm here."

Even when I have to do something extraordinary, migration, cloning, drive replacement, etc. is just plain simpler. Heck, I have a Mac Mini running Server at home with netboot options. It's really nice.

The other reality, at least for me, is that debugging and fixing issues on UNIX-based machines has ALWAYS been easier than on Windows, whether macOS or Linux or BSD.

I see the usual whining about old hardware has started flying but the fact of the matter is this: the average user doesn't care about Skylake or Kaby Lake or Broadwell. They want a computer that does what they need which is often still manageable by a C2D. The vast majority of the users see a machine as something entirely different than the sum of its components. This is even true to a lot of professionals. I used a MacBook Air for quite some time. Was it the most powerful? No. But I don't work in media so the battery life and weight won out.

I'd like to add that this is probably more of a software than a hardware thing too. That's my belief. I've turned many a "crap" PCs into perfectly serviceable computers tossing Linux on in place of Windows. The hardware is usually fine. (Even a fresh install of Windows fixes a lot of issues, but for longevity's sake Windows has never been my OS of choice. And yes, I get it, you who is about to respond to his has had some Windows box running from XP to 10. Great. We're not talking about you though. We're talking about "average" users.)

 

[Korican100]

So, Think Different has become Think The Same.
That's courage for you.

I always feel like this picture makes no sense. Its implying they are all thinking the same, but thats not the case at all. Do they all have the same wallpaper? Did they arrange all their icons the same? Do they all approach taking notes or doing classwork the same? I get that the computers are all the same, but when apple said "Think different" they surely meant, "use our computers to think different" not as in, buy our computer and "tada! you thought different!"

 

[Solomani]

In my experience, Mac hardware does tend to stand up better over time. However, it would behoove Apple to continue OS support for (older Macs) for more than 5-6 years. Maybe continue some kind of minimal support (e.g. critical updates, security patches) for at least 7-8 years old Macs, as Apple should realize (by now) that Mac hardware do tend to get used longer.

 

[Glideslope]

I'm typing this on my Early 2008 MP. 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 16 GB 667 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, and a Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB driving a 24" ASUS LED. I've run 4 internal HD's from day one. I've replaced HD's and RAM modules along the road. Graphics cards were updated until no longer possible. It's used for at least 8 hrs a day, has only been powered down for parts replacements. Runs 10.11.6 very well. When she passes, she will go in the basement vault with all her relatives starting from 1990, and be replace by another Mac. I think IBM is dead on.

 

[B4U]

Yet, the Windows users will not believe this...
Just got ridiculed by a classmate today and I did not even respond back knowing that would not change their mind...

 

[BEC60]

Long ago (1992) I was making the same argument to my management and the "computing standards" people at Boeing Commercial Airplanes - I was, at that time, a computing support focal for about 500 engineers and technicians. We supported over 300 Macs with one person, and it took two people to keep about 100PCs functioning properly (only 20 of them with Windows 3.0). I lost that battle, and as I retire tomorrow and turn in my Dell laptop I'll be saying "good riddance" to it.

Of course Boeing long ago outsourced both the hardware and much of the support to Dell....I have no idea what would happen here if they had the nerve to do what IBM is doing now.

 

[Micky Do]

This used to be true, but not so much anymore. Now a days, I get more calls from my friends with macs than PCs.

PLEASE READ: THIS IS MY OPINION. KEEP YOUR TROLLING AND FLAMING TO YOURSELF. MY OPINION DOES NOT REFLECT THAT OF TIM COOK, THE APPLE CULT, THE DIE HARD APPLE FANS, ANDROID FANS, OR TAYLOR SWIFT.

Shhhhhh….. don't shout.

How many friends do you have? How many with Macs, and how many with PC's?

The report is of the experience of a large company with a large number of both.

My own experience is of owning 2 Mac Mini's over 11 years, with very little down time or hassle. Replaced the first (2005 original )after just over four years, and am still using the second (early 2009) after a couple of OS upgrades, an upgrade to 5 GB RAM, and a couple of dust outs. I expect to get another year or two or more out of it.

The experience of others I know with Macs is similar. Pay a bit more up front, but have less hassle and fewer costs down the line.

Folks I know with PC's (mostly laptops) seem to replace them every 2 or 3 years. The five PC desktops at work, of varying vintage, seem to be forever requiring the attention of the office geek or a tech from the IT department.

 

[pier]

I'm guessing IBM didn't buy any 2011 MBP.

 

[TriBruin]

90,000 Macs supported by FIVE administrators. Wow. 1300 new Macs provisioned each week by those five people? less than 10 minutes to provision each machine if they do nothing but provision new devices. That's some major assembly line economy of scale there.

I have seen some white papers on how IBM is deploying Macs to their users. Here is the big key, there is no need for a tech to touch a Mac before the end user. Everything is automated. It probably takes less than 10 minutes to get the user to their desktop and then the user can install the software they need through the Jamf App Store.

Not even more than a few years ago, the idea of "managing" an Apple device was crazy. The reason IT departments resisted Apple devices was not because they hated Apple or were afraid of being replaced, it was because it was very difficult to manage Apple devices at a company level. Tools to deploy Macs were almost non-existist and did not scale very well. Plus the desire of Apple to make devices user friendly made protecting corporate data (and even corporate property) very difficult.

New Apple tools such as DEP and investment in back end MDM and Profile Management has made managing Apple Devices extremely easy. With DEP and Activation Lock I can ensure that a lost iPhone can NEVER be used by an unwanted person. Even if they were able to break the Activation Lock, the first thing the iPhone will do is check in the company MDM server. You can't bypass it. (And no, restoring the phone won't work.)

Using MDM and Profiles, I can setup your computer just based on your user ID. I do not have do any imaging, I just start with factory O/S and run the standard macOS setup.

 

[TechZeke]

This used to be true, but not so much anymore. Now a days, I get more calls from my friends with macs than PCs.

PLEASE READ: THIS IS MY OPINION. KEEP YOUR TROLLING AND FLAMING TO YOURSELF. MY OPINION DOES NOT REFLECT THAT OF TIM COOK, THE APPLE CULT, THE DIE HARD APPLE FANS, ANDROID FANS, OR TAYLOR SWIFT.

Currently owning 2 PCs and 2 Macs, I say without a doubt that my Macs give me least trouble by far.
My gaming PC mean while has had a few BOSD's and random issues(although for the most part it goes pretty well), and the Windows 10 updates are an absolute wild card on my Surface Pro 4. Other than removing the screen of my iMac to install an SSD or install RAM, I've NEVER had to touch my iMac. It's been going strong since I bought it without fail.

Also, 99% of the time when a Mac users asks me about an issue, its almost always because the Mac is using a hard drive and is easily remedied by an SSD. With PC users, it's always some kind of random unexplainable anomaly or some kind of driver clash.

 

[ericinboston]

This has to be the most glossed-over article ever written in high tech.

1)IBM uses Lenovo-brand (IBM sold this to Lenovo a few years ago)...so this isn't Mac vs. Windows...this is Mac vs. Lenovo (and Lenovo is world renowned for its hardware and business-class reliability).

2)What exactly is broken with the Lenovos at IBM?

3)Like the Lenovos, the Macs don't ship out from IBM to their employees 100% loaded and ready to go...more like 20% ready to go...you have to connect to the IBM network and download numerous gigabytes worth of software to get the machine set up. So sure, you could have 5 IT people cranking out 1300 computers a week because their task is quite minimal and very stringent.

4)I've had both 5+ year old Lenovos and 5+ year old Dells...laptops and desktops...that work just fine day after day. No, I'm not using my computer expertise to keep them running...they just work...powered on 24x7. When people complain "the ____ computers always break!" it drives me nuts because there are no details. Trust me, there plenty of things that can go wrong on a Mac as a Wintel...hardware and software-wise.

5)I'm sure IBM is getting a good discount since they already have a nice partnership with Apple for other reasons. Plus, by ordering dozens of thousands (plus a lot of press...Google it and read the past 2 years) of machines, Apple surely will give a better discount compared to some other corporation ordering 500.

6)Microsoft can surely be giving IBM the best deal of its life but that's for Windows and/or Office licensing. IBM still is buying Lenovo machines and must work with Lenovo for the best deal. MS has absolutely no bearing on this article.

7)Although there may be cost savings from a hardware/OS Software support, what are the costs of all the training and lost productivity as Windows users are now forced to learn Mac land? Obviously they don't need to relearn how to use Office or Firefox...but what about the non-app specific stuff that we all take for granted AND in a corporate environment filled with techies?...network testing, setting the hardware differently, finding Mac OS apps for their beloved Windows apps, setting up printers or devices, learning Mac OS such as power options or how to install/uninstall/customize software, backups, restores, etc. Trust me, there's a lot of a learning curve here. It takes time...and time is money.


There is just too much left out of this article and too much insinuation that Wintel is difficult to mange. IBM's been managing Wintel for 30+ years...and the Macs existed for the last 30+ years...and the past 10 years have been great for Macs...so why the sudden epiphany that Macs are cheaper to manage in a corporate environment?

I like the Macs...and I like Windows...but this article feels like it was written while she was waiting for her microwave popcorn to finish.

 

[jm001]

Well, let me just say I have currently a 2011 MacPro that rocks and two 2005 AC 30" displays that still awesome. The only thing I recommend is Applecare because I had issues during the first 3 years on my MP but for sure my experience with Macs are that they last longer and work very well over long periods of time.

I still have a Mac IIsi that works and I can use Windows 4 on it. My 2005 G5 Powermac powers up and it's still very usable running Leopard. Macs are PCs that simply work. They can run Linux and Windows natively or through emulation and of course MacOS. You get the best of both worlds. A PC can run MacOS, but with a little hack needed. Updates can be a pain on a hackintosh and the full MacOS experience can be limiting.

 

[panjandrum]

Well, it is really great to finally see a well-constructed examination of this issue. Despite a lot of discontent among us long-time Apple users (and support specialists), we have known for many years that Macs are usually far cheaper in the long-run. (At one school I work at the majority of Macs are now 10 years old - mostly I just have to replace hard-drives, or occasionally an iMac power supply. Only a handful have been permanently parted-out as spares to keep the remaining units running. Among the units still working? 16 out of an original 20 of the old white Core 2 duo MacBooks. 10 years being handled and used, nearly daily, by K-8 students. That's not just excellent, it's down-right incredible.)

I just hope that my instincts are wrong and that Apple can continue to do so. I don't have confidence anymore. I've just seen way, way too many bone-headed problems with newer models. (Seriously, how many times can Apple design systems with overheating GPUs? It's absurd. And how the heck did they *ever* design a laptop HDD cable that actually fails? Seriously? It just has to sit there! If it's too thin to handle vibrating against the metal case then make it freaking thicker. It really, really, isn't rocket-science.)

And as for long-term support-call frequency. All I can say is that I've seen a truly huge uptick ever since the release of Lion. It seems to come down to a lot more "random software failures", some of which is probably attributable to user confusion due to a poorly designed UI, but not all of it. Some of it just seems to be a genuine reduction of the stability and reliability of the OS.

 

[Larry The L]

If Jobs were still alive, this would have been very different.