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Apple mostly likely remove the keychain feature for now due to the large number of people who are scared of the NSA obtaining fingerprint data from Touch ID. Once the initial panic subsides and paranoia is calmed it will most likely be offered.

That has nothing to do with it. I wish people were more concerned with such things but most aren't. It's only because Mavericks is not out yet.

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I thought this with fingerprint access would be the killer feature of iOS 7. I'm frankly baffled that they didn't make a bigger deal out of this.

Why do you assume they aren't?
 
After their developer program breach I'm a little uneasy storing such information with them anyway.

The "breach" was nothing. They caught it in time to shut everything down and all that was lost was a few developer names and e-mail addresses.

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There is no third party API for Touch ID.

There is in fact an api for Touch ID iOS. Correction, it may not be on the developer site yet but it exists and I can see it in another Apple program that is invitation only. Apple may not want to say anything just yet but I bet my next paycheck there will be 3rd party integration. The question is when.
 
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They'll save it for the iPhone 5ss.

I predict that the new iPhone 5ss will be pink with lime green polka dots, and due to this ground breaking advancement, keychain will only be available on the 5ss.

It'll be announced shortly for a Thanksgiving launch, and Pavlovian conditioning will result in several people drowning in the saliva on Apple's campus.

Can I call myself an analyst now?
 
Those are stock markets. a meta market. A place where perceptions are bought and sold.

Apple doesn't make money on the stock market, infact, the lower it goes, the cheaper it gets for them to become more private (or at least employee owned).

The perception of 'value' there is not the same on wall street as the perception of 'value' in the eyes of someone who is buying a smartphone.

The 'market' he's talking about the place where hard product iPhones are sold[out]. That's where Apple makes it's money... and that market says the current iPhone pricing is still low enough that the customer sees value and buys most everything Apple makes.

You don't get it. The original post(er) was commenting on the "market". To be more specific, s/he was commenting on his perception (using your word) of what the "market" wants. He asserted that the "market isn't calling out for a cheap iPhone, just a mid-tier...." He had another post where he posted his "perception" that "Apple is being destroyed in the stock market today due to no mid-range iPhone to gain a bigger foothold in the Chinese market." I merely pointed out that others disagree with his perception of what the market wants.

Others also disagree as to why Apple is being "destroyed" in the "stock market" today.

UBS stated they "were surprised by the high price of the 5C..." They are concerned over "lack of competitiveness." A "perception" of what the "market" wants.

Credit Suisse commented that "the biggest surprise" was the 5C being positioned as a "midrange phone" and that it won't help "in addressing lower price points in emerging markets."

Again, I was pointing out that there are other "perceptions" of what the "market" wants.

Alternatively, just read the first sentence of the article:
Apple stock (NASDAQ: AAPL) went on one of its biggest slides of the year after analysts downgraded the shares, saying the new iPhone 5C is not cheap enough for emerging markets and the company is failing to innovate.


Apple doesn't make money on the stock market, infact, the lower it goes, the cheaper it gets for them to become more private (or at least employee owned).

That makes zero sense.
 
This and the lack of a mid-range iPhone 5C also baffled me. Such missed opportunities! Apple is being destroyed in the stock market today due to no mid-range iPhone to gain a bigger foothold in the Chinese market. With the fingerprint reader, keychain in the cloud could have been a tentpole feature of iOS 7.

I had to laugh reading this..Apple is hardly being destroyed in the stock market. Anyone who has followed Apple at all knows this always happens when new products are released. Don't count out third party integration yet.

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Errr... what's the point of iCloud passwords without a Mac?

Serious question. :|


To use on your iPhone and iPad.
 
Your fingerprint will be your password to the 'keychain' of all your other passwords, including Netflix, your bank, etc. Much like 1password works (but with a fingerprint password instead of a text password)

So, yes, you will be able to get into Netflix/your bank with your fingerprint.

They specifically said in the keynote that Touch ID is purely local, and will not be integrated into iCloud/3rd party programs.
 
My guess of reasons why it was booted from the GM release.

1) They want improve it for better support with the fingerprint scanner
2) Found a security hole so big, they need to fix it
3) Lack of market interest due to the PRISM scandal
 
1Password…

When it comes to privacy, just don't buy American.
Especially as a non-American.

Any time that I read/watch something critical about NSA surveillance (coming from America/an American), all the fuss seems to be about keeping tabs on Americans. While NSA spying on American citizens/residents has so far been limited to (strings of) "unfortunate and regrettable mishaps", no American official or politican - and not even the media - seem to have any qualms whatsoever over spying on non-US subjects/targets.

Everyone and everything else in the world seems to be considered fair game.

I agree. Being Canadian in Canada and regularly have correspondence with my parents in the USA I royally dislike the fact that because I'm a non-US resident that I become a defacto target.

Fortunately, 1Password developed by AgileBits is a Canadian company and thus not a target for the Patriot Act. So I am feeling a lot safer storing my information there. Version 4 is coming soon!

As for email, I would recommend GPGtools.org and start encrypting your emails!
 

From:
http://lukenotricks.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/on-entropy-of-fingerprints.html

No, not really, because:
“The revised model is somewhat more conservative in its comparisons to passwords. The authors now state that randomly matching on at least 20 from 36 minutia is at least as difficult as guessing a length 6 case-sensitive alphanumeric password...”
This are six ASCII characters (7 bit per character).
7 Bits x 6 = 42 Bits

Not much. 256 bits is the absolute minimum, if we talk about cryptographic secrets (hash values, either via SHA-2 or via SHA-3) for authentication functions.
 
There is in fact an api for Touch ID iOS. Correction, it may not be on the developer site yet but it exists and I can see it in another Apple program that is invitation only. Apple may not want to say anything just yet but I bet my next paycheck there will be 3rd party integration. The question is when.

And what "invitation only" program is that? Are you just making stuff up now?
 
They specifically said in the keynote that Touch ID is purely local, and will not be integrated into iCloud/3rd party programs.

Yes, you're right and I'm right at the same time.

The fingerprint 'password' is stored locally and not sent outside your device. That's true. It simply means that iCloud or 3rd party apps can't look at your fingerprint data.

The keychain CAN, however, call an iOS API function which is something like 'isFingerprintVerify' which will ask the OS to ask for your fingerprint, verify, then return true or false if the fingerprint is valid.

At that point, the code will know that a secure user is using the app (if TRUE is returned) and will let the user in. The app never has access to fingerprint data, but is using it for validation.

It's a little more complicated than this, but this is the general idea.
 
That paper you link to studied 19th century classification system (Henry), and 13-bit entophy is referring to specific elements of a fingerpint (loops, whorls, etc).

Your conclusion that fingerprints are 13-bit long is incorrect.
We do not speak about fingerprints, we speak about the result after the scan.

That would mean there are only 8,192 unique fingerprints that exist in the world - clearly not the case.
The fingerprint sensors scan the finger with a limited resolution. Apple extracts data from these sensors and stores the data in the A7 chip. That means the available entropy is limited.
 
I thought this with fingerprint access would be the killer feature of iOS 7. I'm frankly baffled that they didn't make a bigger deal out of this.

Yeah me too. Surely they are going to roll our fingerprint scanning for every password you ever need on your iOS device. Would be a real, day to day game changer. Furthermore, would not be surprised to see Mavericks update that would allow touch ID integration, with fingerprint scanners embedded in keyboards/ trackpads (Mac or third party).

Another feature that would work well with Touch ID is multiple user profiles, like in Android. eg. your kids could pop their finger on the scanner, and their apps and games would all appear and your email wouldn't... This has to be coming in iOS8
 
The fingerprint sensors scan the finger with a limited resolution. Apple extracts data from these sensors and stores the data in the A7 chip. That means the available entropy is limited.

It is not limited to 13-bit number (8,192 unique values). Modern sensors (like Authentec's) are capable of storing 12-15 ASCI characters worth of unique fingerprint data. That's stronger than majority of the passwords used today, even long/random ones generates by the likes of 1Password.
 
But I want it D:
Probably waiting for the whole NSA fear to cool down before releasing it to avoid bad PR.
 
This disappointed me, hope it makes it's official launch with 10.9. I miss Keychain, Dock, System Preferences syncing along with a file sharing option (iDisk was slow but allowed for web hosting and syncing data bet Mac's).

Hoping iCloud services will include full document/file sharing akin to "Dropbox" and the full return of Keychain syncing when 10.9 is release.
 
this could be a winner guys. don't cancel this feature
*coming from a guy who uses Firefox/Chrome sync
 
Very interested in this feature... I have been using 1Password for all my passwords for years now... only downfall i see to this is that it doesn't work on PC's

That's not the only downfall, it also only works with Safari, when using any other browser then it will not work. That's why I'll keep using 1Password from agile bits because it works on all browsers en multi platform on PC as well. Besides that advantage it also enables you to actually 'see' what password you use for each specific website and you can change them on the fly. I also like the fact that I can save up serial numbers for several software packages I've bought and other addition information all in one place.


It syncs all information, also encrypted, and works on all my devices as well.

The problem with Apple's keychain is that it's limited for use with safari only, a huge disadvantage.
 
There may not be any reference in the settings but when I just logged into a website, I was asked if I wanted to store the info in my iCloud Keychain. I am running the GM.

p69m.jpg
 
Of course. They'll need to release Mavericks before iCloud Keychain. So I guess it will come as a 7.0.x update when Mavericks is released.
 
Only thing I can think of is some people might want to share passwords with family members phones, someone might have an iPad and an iPhone, someone might have an iPod Touch and an iPad. Someone might have an iPad Mini and an iPad. Someone might have an iPhone and an iPad Mini. Someone might have an iPod Touch and an iPad Mini.

(I am sure I missed a few)

Once your iDevice is stolen or breaks - it might also be handy to be able to access those passwords on your new iDevice :)
 
This are six ASCII characters (7 bit per character).
7 Bits x 6 = 42 Bits

Not much. 256 bits is the absolute minimum, if we talk about cryptographic secrets (hash values, either via SHA-2 or via SHA-3) for authentication functions.

So you have moved from it being as secure as a 3 digit pin number, ie 1 in 1000 chance of guessing, to a 6 digit alphanumeric case sensitive password (1 in 689869781056) chance.

To talk about comparing the security to 256 bit encryption is irrelevant, this is something you have to enter every time you unlock your phone! Is a viable alternative using a 256 bit password?
 
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