If Sony Vaio Z11 can why not MBP 13 ?

[itommyboy]

Quite obviously, although not mentioned much if ever in these Z threads, (by the way I'm a fan of that 13" Z I've pulled my finger from the trigger on ordering one twice in the last month) it's just not an apples to apples comparison when looking at the Sony and the latest MBP. That 13" Z is a completely new build for Zony I mean Sony - freshly built for the new ages. The mothershp strategically "refreshed" our beloved MBP so as not to cannibalize that over sized iPhone with no phone that is their current obsession. In coming months (my guess by mid December at latest) when the completely new MBP drop they will be on top or at least mentioned at the top of the tech game again, even if ever so quietly as they were with the pre-unibody MBP of 2008 which I just happen to be blasting this from.

As for now even though some processors and gpu's may not be bleeding edge, I still pick Apple above any others based on overall quality, (bummer when you can't open your Sony because the screen latch broke - true story), attention to detail, much better battery life and always superior OS. It's those must haves I need to run my business and stay in touch with my bad digital self. Not 1GB of v-ram or Blu Ray. By the way when I don't close a sale I should have closed and I'm pissed at myself I can still blast with the best of them on COD4 or L4D2 or jam some BG's in WoW & blow off some steam. All on my 2+ year old "go to computer" MBP and they run and look great. Max'd settings? No - but is that Sony from 2+ years ago running those games max'd - is that Sony from 2 years ago still even working?

Being a somewhat recent father I am working my hardest to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and see the good in this world rather than all the in our face bad. This goes for tech goody's as well and I do have to give it to Sony for my most recent purchase which has gone their way. They knows how to make a sweet...

 

[maratus]

The Sony Vaio Z has the hardware performance superior to the 17" (GT335, dual SSDs), in a form factor smaller than the 13", for the price of the 15". It's just on a much higher level than any of the MacBooks.

Z has 330M

SSD should be 2.5" (I want to get larger, faster and cheaper SSD each year)

HDMI without WQXGA support is for entertainment not work (lame)

Battery drain in previous gen pissed me off

Diag. lines are visible and I didn't like them at all (though not a dealbraker)

Build quality is better than previous Z but still inferior to unibody. Flexible screen etc.

As much as I appreciate Sony and Windows 7
I decided to go with 1680x1050 AG 15" this time. Bigger screen does matter and overall experience is better.

 

[mjoshi123]

Vaio z is a plastic toy..

You never stop to amaze.... Vaio Z is carbon fiber body, go and take a look in person. I'm seeing it everyday in my office.

 

[frostiex]

if anything is equal....warranty with apple care make the biggest difference...don't think ANY computer company has any better service than apple....

 

[UKBeast]

You never stop to amaze.... Vaio Z is carbon fiber body, go and take a look in person. I'm seeing it everyday in my office.

I do not mean the material they use, I am telling the feeling you get when you touch it.

They are not as durable and stable as mbps'..

 

[entatlrg]

I recently received my new Sony Z ... I don't like it much at all ...

Screen is nothing compared to Mac's and Sony is known for their superior screens ... it's grainy compared to Mac's.

From a quality and user experience it falls far short of my 13" MBP or MBA.

I'd MUCH rather own a 13" MBP instead of a Sony Z ... I've had them both on my lap and both in my bag there's not that much weight difference.

Sony is a huge step down in my opinion .... but yes it has faster spec's on paper ... doesn't matter much if you don't like using it.

The Sony Z will go, my Mac's will stay and I've finally learned my (expensive) lesson ... NO MORE Windows Machines and no more Windows OS ... it's surprising Apple has a small percentage of the notebook market ... I expect that will change for the better.

 

[diablo2112]

The Sony Vaio Z has the hardware performance superior to the 17" (GT335, dual SSDs), in a form factor smaller than the 13", for the price of the 15". It's just on a much higher level than any of the MacBooks.

I bought a Sony Z11 2 weeks ago. Returned it for the MBP last week. The Z was nice, but had a number of issues that ultimately didn't do it for me.

For example, the trackpad was simply poor compared to the MBP. The multi-touch gestures and capability and the sensitivity and ease of the MBP trackpad is alone worth any price premium on the Macs. The more expensive Z11 didn't come close in this category.

The backlighting on the Z was fairly poor, especially the keyboard. The light sensor had a view of the screen, and in a dark room, the keyboard would *dim*. I had to put a sticker over the light sensor to solve this, and activate the keyboard backlight manually. Further, the keyboard backlight could only be turned on/off. The MBP has dedicated keys for this, with multiple light levels. This matters to me, as I frequently use my laptop at night and while watching movies, etc.

Battery life on the Z was very poor compared to the MBP.

Build on the Z - while light and relatively good looking - was just flimsy compared to the MBP. There is a light-leak around the outer edge of the screen, something that was annoying on a $3k laptop. The screen is FLIMSY. It bends with the slightest touch, and alters the colors of the LCD in the process. While the Z lid is carbon fiber, the finish looks like cheap plastic. I really, really wish that would have left the carbon fiber weave showing, and I'm beginning to suspect that the "carbon fiber" construction on the Z was really just carbon-infused plastic, not carbon cloth.

OTOH, build on the MBP is unimpeachable, rock solid. Finest built laptop I've ever owned, but you know that if you're on this forum...

The 1600x900 13.1" screen was almost overkill. Font sizes were pretty damn small. The 1680x1050 screen on MBP gives just slightly larger icons/fonts and more real estate. IMHO, the hi res MBP screen is really the ideal resolution.

Windows experience index scores between the Z and MBP differed only in the hard drive rating - and that because the Z comes stock with SSD. It smokes that category, 7.4 if I recall (5.9 on the MBP). Put an SSD in the MBP (which I plan to do), and I think performance is a wash.

I can choose W7 or OS X on the MBP. I'm stuck with only W7 on the Z. That's also pretty huge.

The Z did have an express card port, but lacks firewire. I run audio gear through my laptop (Gibson Dusk Tiger guitar), and this was a huge limitation on the Z.

Your mileage may vary....

 

[RonnyC]

I bought a Sony Z11 2 weeks ago. Returned it for the MBP last week. The Z was nice, but had a number of issues that ultimately didn't do it for me.

For example, the trackpad was simply poor compared to the MBP. The multi-touch gestures and capability and the sensitivity and ease of the MBP trackpad is alone worth any price premium on the Macs. The more expensive Z11 didn't come close in this category.

The backlighting on the Z was fairly poor, especially the keyboard. The light sensor had a view of the screen, and in a dark room, the keyboard would *dim*. I had to put a sticker over the light sensor to solve this, and activate the keyboard backlight manually. Further, the keyboard backlight could only be turned on/off. The MBP has dedicated keys for this, with multiple light levels. This matters to me, as I frequently use my laptop at night and while watching movies, etc.

Battery life on the Z was very poor compared to the MBP.

Build on the Z - while light and relatively good looking - was just flimsy compared to the MBP. There is a light-leak around the outer edge of the screen, something that was annoying on a $3k laptop. The screen is FLIMSY. It bends with the slightest touch, and alters the colors of the LCD in the process. While the Z lid is carbon fiber, the finish looks like cheap plastic. I really, really wish that would have left the carbon fiber weave showing, and I'm beginning to suspect that the "carbon fiber" construction on the Z was really just carbon-infused plastic, not carbon cloth.

OTOH, build on the MBP is unimpeachable, rock solid. Finest built laptop I've ever owned, but you know that if you're on this forum...

The 1600x900 13.1" screen was almost overkill. Font sizes were pretty damn small. The 1680x1050 screen on MBP gives just slightly larger icons/fonts and more real estate. IMHO, the hi res MBP screen is really the ideal resolution.

Windows experience index scores between the Z and MBP differed only in the hard drive rating - and that because the Z comes stock with SSD. It smokes that category, 7.4 if I recall (5.9 on the MBP). Put an SSD in the MBP (which I plan to do), and I think performance is a wash.

I can choose W7 or OS X on the MBP. I'm stuck with only W7 on the Z. That's also pretty huge.

The Z did have an express card port, but lacks firewire. I run audio gear through my laptop (Gibson Dusk Tiger guitar), and this was a huge limitation on the Z.

Your mileage may vary....

Great summing up, thanks for that - nice to hear from someone who's actually experienced both first hand. I'd be interested to hear the full Windows experience scores to compare if you have them?

Thanks

 

[diablo2112]

Great summing up, thanks for that - nice to hear from someone who's actually experienced both first hand. I'd be interested to hear the full Windows experience scores to compare if you have them?

Thanks

I posted a review of the MBP and full WEI scores in this thread. Note, I've actually bought 2 MBPs - i5 and i7, details in the thread with scores for both

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/899679/

 

[FrinkTL]

Talk to your Sony Vaio friend in about 12 months. In my experience, having owned many Vaio's over the year, they are incredibly shoddy build quality. While they are loaded with features, those features don't do much good when you find the motherboard eating itself due to bad heatsinks, fans that quit working and a whole host of other issues.

Vaio's aren't that bad when they are relegated to lightweight duty in a clean working environment and not moved that much. But even with the improved case design on the latest models, they just aren't durable.

Hi. I'm the "Sony Vaio friend." Nice to meet you. You should know that this is my second Vaio Z. Let me address your concerns one at a time:

1. I've been using the Vaio Z for 2 years now. My first was the Z690 and my new one is the Z11. I've never had a problem of any sort with build quality. I can't and won't speak for other Vaio models, as I've never used them. The Z690 had a solid build quality, though it used cheap plastic in a couple of places. The Z11 doesn't use ANY cheap plastic. The keyboard rests on an aluminum plate and the outer shell (lid and bottom) are carbon fiber (lighter than aluminum and stronger).
2. As for your claim of overheating, it is entirely unfounded (again, at least as far as the Z model line goes). The Z11 uses top-of-the-line copper heat pipes and heat sinks to bleed the heat away with maximum efficiency. Understand that I have gamed with BOTH of my Z's, including the older Z690, for hours at a time. If the board was going to melt or the CPU throttle to compensate for overheating, it would have done it. It did not. Oh, and when I talk about gaming, I'm not talking "lightweight" games; I'm talking Bioshock 2 and Crysis (which brings many systems to their knees begging for mercy).

Did I mention that the Vaio Z comes standard with on-site support?

Those are the facts and they are irrefutible experience.

 

[FrinkTL]

First, you'll have to ask your buddy how much he paid for that machine. Since I'm certain it cost quite a bit more than what you're looking for in a 13" MBP, you'll need to ask youself...is it worth it for you? Finally, if you answered yes, then you're in a small segment of the market Apple doesn't aim at. Apple aims for the largest segment because they sell a small range of computers and want those to fit as many as possible.

Hi. "your buddy" here. I paid $1,997.49. Here are the specs that includes:

1. 3 lbs weight
2. 192 GB SSD
3. Integrated Broadband
4. Separate GPS receiver (no activation/subscription required)
5. 4GB DDR3 RAM
6. Carbon fiber exterior
7. Dual layer DVD writer (tray style)
8. 3 USB port
9. HDMI out
10. VGA out
11. Kensington lock
12. Express 34 slot
13. 10/100/1000 Ethernet port
14. Hybrid graphics switching between Intel i5 (540M) integrate and nVidia 330M with 1GB VRAM (can switch either automatically or manually via a hardware switch)
15. Intel Wireless a/b/g/n
16. Backlit keyboard with auto dimming
17. Light sensor that auto dims display in low light (and turns on keyboard backlight) - can be turned off if desired
18. Integrated webcam with microphone
19. Noise cancelling earbud headphones
20. 1 Year warranty with ON-SITE support

Those are the facts.

 

[FrinkTL]

...Sony better computer. BIG NO
...

Sorry, but the truth is the answer to that question ALWAYS relies on how you will USE the machine. The answer, then, by definition varies according to your intended use. Every machine has it's niche market and every single one of them represents some sort of compromise. The question is which compromise best matches your use.

 

[FrinkTL]

Sure, it is.

But not if you want to keep it running cool and quiet, and at the same time staying at the price point Apple needs it to.

Apple hardware hasn't been top of the line for at least 5 years, but they are innovative and the best in a lot of other categories, that can't be printed on a spec sheet.

I almost hate to be the bearer of bad news for you buddy. But I just spent a couple of hours gaming on my Z11 (playing BioShock 2 at native 1600x900 resolution) this weekend - that, and Crysis - and both the top and bottom of the machine remained cool to the touch. The air leaving the exhaust port was hot, but the machine was cool to the touch.

 

[FrinkTL]

If apple can do unibody, high quality enclosure, durabile and stable macbook pro, then why cant sony vaio z do it ?

Vaio z is a plastic toy..

Not quite. The Z11 uses a solid sheet of aluminum in the middle and carbon fiber for the outer shell. If you check your engineering, carbon fiber is stronger and lighter than aluminum. Oh, and carbon fiber doesn't ding like aluminum does.

 

[ippikiokami]

I was eagerly waiting the release of the new Macbook Pro 13 enough that I sold my previous windows laptop about 3 days before the refresh. As soon as I saw the specs for it I was really disappointed. I previously had shy'd away from the Z because of it's cost but after comparing it to the Macbook Pro 13 and even the 15 I saw that the price of the Z was actually worth it.

The Z is just plain and simple a better and more powerful machine than the MBP 13. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

 

[sturmnacht]

Not quite. The Z11 uses a solid sheet of aluminum in the middle and carbon fiber for the outer shell. If you check your engineering, carbon fiber is stronger and lighter than aluminum. Oh, and carbon fiber doesn't ding like aluminum does.

Someone who said about the plastic Vaio Z is partially right. Outer shell made of carbon fiber is down-right misleading. The outer shell is actually carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic, which is still mainly plastic, but still sturdier and lighter than aluminum. Otherwise, the price of the Vaio would have been more expensive than the 15" MBP.

Size is a matter. Although both sony Z and MBP are 13", sony Z is actually thicker than MBP (32.7 mm vs 24.1 mm). The extra 86 mm allows sony to have a discrete 330m GPU and better ventilation. Also, the case of sony Z is made of aluminium and carbon fibre. You can feel that it is much thinner than the aluminium case used for MBP.

There are lots of comparisons between MBP and vaio Z in terms of size and spec. But I think OSX should also be counted while you are comparing. With no doubt that It is a better OS than Windows. And it allows MBP has the same performance with lower spec compared to those windows laptop.

For those who are comparing the 13" MBP with Vaio Z, simply pick the Z if you want to have a 13" laptop of higher spec, of course at a higher price.

Again, this is a misleading measurement. That thickness includes the small protrusion of the battery, which is no more than 5% of the footprint.

 

[FrinkTL]

Someone who said about the plastic Vaio Z is partially right. Outer shell made of carbon fiber is down-right misleading. The outer shell is actually carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic, which is still mainly plastic, but still sturdier and lighter than aluminum. Otherwise, the price of the Vaio would have been more expensive than the 15" MBP.

This is true, but a necessary fact. If you do your research on the manufacturing process, you'll learn that carbon fiber is always wrapped around SOMEthing, whether that be plastic, cloth or some other material. It simply cannot stand on it's own. Carbon fiber must be bonded to something else to be molded to a particular shape.

So it wasn't so much misleading as lacking details of the manufacturing process and/or the substrate used under the carbon fiber.

 

[Kiddo86]

If apple can do unibody, high quality enclosure, durabile and stable macbook pro, then why cant sony vaio z do it ?

Vaio z is a plastic toy..

+1

Ever since I owned my first MBP, I simply cannot stand the idea of owning a computer made of plastic. I don't care what they put into it... if it's plastic, I'm not buying it. It's just a preference... but one I can't bring myself to stray from.

 

[UKBeast]

This is true, but a necessary fact. If you do your research on the manufacturing process, you'll learn that carbon fiber is always wrapped around SOMEthing, whether that be plastic, cloth or some other material. It simply cannot stand on it's own. Carbon fiber must be bonded to something else to be molded to a particular shape.

So it wasn't so much misleading as lacking details of the manufacturing process and/or the substrate used under the carbon fiber.

I have seen Sony Z many times, they are quite good machines for a PC, but it is not comparable with macbook in terms of quality.

The outershell is still giving the feeling of a plastic toy no matter how they produce it. In time it is getting scratches easily.

 

[lilo777]

if anything is equal....warranty with apple care make the biggest difference...don't think ANY computer company has any better service than apple....

This is a very common misconception. Many manufacturers actually offer better service not available from Apple. How about 2 or 3 years (your choice) in-home service from HP? How is this not better than having to drive to Apple Store (if you even have it nearby). Here is a description o this service:

Protect your PC from damage caused by drops, spills, and electrical surges with our Care Pack House Call Service with Accidental Damage Protection. You'll enjoy convenient technical support and extended security while keeping your laptop PC (prebuilt or customized) covered by the manufacturer who knows it best.
And if your PC should need repair, we'll recycle any replaced parts so they don't end up in a landfill. Visit HP recycling to learn more.
Greater peace of mind
What's included:
Protection from damage caused by drops, spills, and electrical surges
Convenient technical support while you're at home
Diagnosis of the problem with an HP representative, which may include sending you an easy-to-replace part, scheduling a visit to your home, or, in rare instances, sending the PC to an HP-authorized repair site1
Coverage for hardware parts and labor for up to 2 years from PC purchase date*
Round-trip shipping
Expert 24 x 7 toll-free phone, real-time chat, and e-mail support
Technical assistance with PC setup, troubleshooting, and spyware and virus issues

I have seen Sony Z many times, they are quite good machines for a PC, but it is not comparable with macbook in terms of quality.

The outershell is still giving the feeling of a plastic toy no matter how they produce it. In time it is getting scratches easily.

So, VAIO Z scratches easily and MBP does no? Why then do we have so many threads about protecting MBPs? As far as build quality is concerned, I am not sure that I could be convinced that MBPs built by Foxconn in China have better quality than VAIO Z laptops built by Sony in Japan.

 

[FrinkTL]

I have seen Sony Z many times, they are quite good machines for a PC, but it is not comparable with macbook in terms of quality.

The outershell is still giving the feeling of a plastic toy no matter how they produce it. In time it is getting scratches easily.

Are you saying that aluminum doesn't scratch? Because if you are, I might have to laugh out loud. I have an all-aluminum exterior HP 2133 netbook (it uses brushed aluminum shell), and I can tell you that aluminum DOES scratch. So much for the invincibility cloak retort.

 

[UKBeast]

Are you saying that aluminum doesn't scratch? Because if you are, I might have to laugh out loud. I have an all-aluminum exterior HP 2133 netbook (it uses brushed aluminum shell), and I can tell you that aluminum DOES scratch. So much for the invincibility cloak retort.

Everything can be scratched but comparing your sony vaio z to a macbook pro is not sounding right.

Also, you do not only need high specs, you also need stability, durability, quality and good os like OS X.

Sony is pre installing rubbish software to its computers and coming with a stupid antivirus software. It is totally a time waster.

 

[Azathoth]

Ah, I love a good MBP vs the rest of the world thread in the morning.

*Older Macbooks (+pro) are known to run hot.
*The MBA has a tendency to self destruct.
*The old Crackbook fiasco?
*nVidia 8600GT issue

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

The fact that MBP is the only one that runs OS X is beside the point - Apple could have the options available on the Sony as BTO, the fact is that they don't, and that's a shame (for some) and no matter how many fanboys come out of the woodwork, the fact remains that it's annoying to be limited in choice (no hires screen, not matte option for 13").

My father has been using a 10.8 inch Vaio for 7 years - still running without a hitch (though the 900MHz processor is starting to get a bit long in the tooth).
Personally Ive never liked Sony's Vaio line nor the proprietary nature of their products (even though I plan to switch to a MBP - go figure), but I see them as being in a similar league - in terms of company mentality, as Apple.

Al is not necessarily the best material for everything, despite what Apple brainwashes one to believe. The whole 'MBP are made of solid Al - therefore they're like indestructible, man' is just stupid. I've sat and stood on my Thinkpad, can hold it horizontal by the outer edge of the screen and spill coffee over the keyboard. Scr3w aluminium - our CTOs MBP is warped (it was a 2006 model), the CEO retired his Thinkpad last year - after 4 months his MBP15 trackpad has stopped working.

 

[entatlrg]

I was eagerly waiting the release of the new Macbook Pro 13 enough that I sold my previous windows laptop about 3 days before the refresh. As soon as I saw the specs for it I was really disappointed. I previously had shy'd away from the Z because of it's cost but after comparing it to the Macbook Pro 13 and even the 15 I saw that the price of the Z was actually worth it.

The Z is just plain and simple a better and more powerful machine than the MBP 13. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

Not many or any here are questioning the 'specs' or 'power' of the Z.

Day to day user experience and what the majority of people use a computer for the 13" MBP in my opinion is a MUCH better computer to use, view, type on etc etc than a Sony Z.

Did a page open a second faster, maybe, can you play all kinds of games on the Z's compared to the MBP's probably ... neither of those are important to me. I have a ps3, xbox and wii for that.

Give the majority of people a Sony Z for a week and then a 13" MBP for a week, and I'll bet a lot of money the 13" MBP will win by a LARGE margin.

I'm a business user, casual user, from 3D drawing to watching movies, editing photo's/video I spend a lot of time on a computer and do a wide range of things.

I've owned enough SZ's and Z's now, (2 SZ and 3 Z's) and had enough experience with Win7 now to know for sure it's not for me. If I wasn't an Apple fan boy before I am now

Apple has found incredible ways to assemble their electronics (AND software) so it just works, no not the highest fastest spec's but wow REALLY nice laptops that handle tasks very well.

 

[lcs101]

Until PCs use the mac OS (which will never happen without a hack), there is absolutely no point in comparing macs to PCs. I am a mac person because of the operating system. If I wanted to use windows, I would buy a PC, but I do not.