If Sony Vaio Z11 can why not MBP 13 ?

[RonnyC]

I wondering if you have used new 13inch mbp and 15inch mbp or not ?

I used them in Apple store, performance difference was negligible.

I've played with them both in the apple store, and you're right - the difference is negligible. The problem will come when people start to use graphic intense software such as Adobe CS, Rhino 3D, 3D Studio Max, final cut etc.

I agree the13" MBP is powerful enough for most people's needs but as a PRO machine it should be able to do the tasks that professionals need. The macbook is apple's consumer line. If that was given that the aluminium unibody, most people would buy that as most people are only worried about how it looks, not how it performs.

 

[UKBeast]

I've played with them both in the apple store, and you're right - the difference is negligible. The problem will come when people start to use graphic intense software such as Adobe CS, Rhino 3D, 3D Studio Max, final cut etc.

I agree the13" MBP is powerful enough for most people's needs but as a PRO machine it should be able to do the tasks that professionals need. The macbook is apple's consumer line. If that was given that the aluminium unibody, most people would buy that as most people are only worried about how it looks, not how it performs.

You are really not understanding it, pro is just the name. There is no such thing like a pro machine. Computer is computer, it does not matter what parts it has. If it is capable of your answering you needs then it is a pro machine for you. For example, for my 11 year old cousin, who is spending all his time with msn messenger and facebook, a netbook with an atom cpu is a PRO machine. Because he is not doing anything else apart from it.

13inch is the most portable machine of macbook series. It is not designed for engineering or hardcore software users, its target is casual users. For many engineers, photographers, graphic artists screen size is very important, they tend to buy notebooks with screen sizes at least 15 or 17inches.

 

[RonnyC]

You are really not understanding it, pro is just the name. There is no such thing like a pro machine. A computer is a computer, it does not matter what parts it has. If it is capable of your answering you needs then it is a pro machine for you. For example, for my 11 year old cousin, who is spending all his time with msn messenger and facebook, a netbook with an atom cpu is a PRO machine. Because he is not doing anything else apart from it.

13inch is the most portable machine of macbook series. It is not designed for engineering or hardcore software users, its target is casual users. For many engineers, photographers, graphic artists screen size is very important, they tend to buy notebooks with screen sizes at least 15 or 17inches.

Without getting into a slanging match... it's you who has this wrong....

The Pro shouldn't just be the name, it once stood for something (as it does still with the 15" & 17"). The consumer line (for your 11 year-old cousin etc) should be the macbook, currently the 13" MBP is just a slightly higher spec macbook in an aluminium unibody. In my opinion, the 13" MBP should cater for high end users who require portability and if this isn't possible it should lose the pro tag and become a higher option for the macbook.

Mac laptops used to concentrate on the graphics side of things and is why they have been adopted by many design studios around the world. The 13" MBP doesn't cater for these people so shouldn't be marketed as a pro machine

 

[sturmnacht]

It's funny to see that people here blame Apple on the new 13" MBP, while the Vaio Z owners blame Sony for the problems with the laptop. It's a long thread on notebookreview.com and below is a summary for the cons of Vaio Z, just for reference.



and more...

While there are many problems associated with the Vaio Z, that does not mean the Vaio Z should be avoided. Most are simply minor issues compare to almost all other laptops. This is still a very highly-recommended machine. The sad truth is no laptops are perfect.

 

[UKBeast]

Without getting into a slanging match... it's you who has this wrong....

The Pro shouldn't just be the name, it once stood for something (as it does still with the 15" & 17"). The consumer line (for your 11 year-old cousin etc) should be the macbook, currently the 13" MBP is just a slightly higher spec macbook in an aluminium unibody. In my opinion, the 13" MBP should cater for high end users who require portability and if this isn't possible it should lose the pro tag and become a higher option for the macbook.

Mac laptops used to concentrate on the graphics side of things and is why they have been adopted by many design studios around the world. The 13" MBP doesn't cater for these people so shouldn't be marketed as a pro machine

Some people does not like the white plastic design of macbook, then they buy 13inch macbook pro.

Probably, pro name is not only coming from its specs. but from its build quality and design.

This is the only explanation i found.

 

[RonnyC]

Some people does not like the white plastic design of macbook, then they buy 13inch macbook pro.

Probably, pro name is not only coming from its specs. but from its build quality and design.

This is the only explanation i found.

We agree on something finally!

If the macbook had an aluminium unibody, it would be a best seller - freeing the 13" MBP to become something more like the Vaio Z and closer to the specs of the 15" & 17", ie. a high spec'd portable laptop. They could then charge a premium for it...

 

[entatlrg]

Use a Sony Z11 for a week, then a 13" MBP for a week ...

Work both of them hard, CS5, Final Cut, 3D etc ... THEN come back and post your results based on performance and day to day user experience.

I've done that, for me the 13" MBP wins by a huge margin.

That's my third try in 3 years with high end Sony notebooks ... this time I've learned my lesson... no more Sony computers for me.

 

[koruki]

Use a Sony Z11 for a week, then a 13" MBP for a week ...

Work both of them hard, CS5, Final Cut, 3D etc ... THEN come back and post your results based on performance and day to day user experience.

I've done that, for me the 13" MBP wins by a huge margin.

That's my third try in 3 years with high end Sony notebooks ... this time I've learned my lesson... no more Sony computers for me.

Thank god a post from someone who's used both, now we can close this silly thread

 

[Jason Beck]

I was planning to get MBP 13 but after last update I'm thinking of waiting bit longer before Apple gets its act together. One of my colleague uses Z11 on daily basis and I've seen machine on daily basis. It has everything that MBP 15 has and few more things and still it can manage to push every thing within 13" form factor so why cant Apple ?
Here is quote directly from my friend which makes every MBP 13 user cringe little bit considering fact that Apple brags lot about Mac v/s PC war. Probably Mac lost some of cool in this release.

As a Z11 user, I can tell you that it's an awesomely performing machine...blisteringly fast. And it's a good gaming machine to boot. With an independent (no broadband subscription required) GPS receiver, integrated broadband (if I ever decide I want to use it) a full 1GB of dedicated Video RAM,up to 512GB SSD storage, 1600 x 900 Sony display tray-... See Moreloading Dual layer DVD writer (blue ray optional)...on and on the list goes.

Oh, and it stays cool to the touch by some miracle. I was just gaming on it (Bioshock 2) for an hour or so and both the top and bottom was cool to the touch (or BARELY warm), even though the air leaving the exhaust vent was very HOT. Sony might be letting some of it's model lines "slip" in engineering prowess, but the Z series shows they still have it when they choose to.

It doesn't matter to me, it still is Windows.
Apples to Oranges yet again.

 

[Jason Beck]

Use a Sony Z11 for a week, then a 13" MBP for a week ...

Work both of them hard, CS5, Final Cut, 3D etc ... THEN come back and post your results based on performance and day to day user experience.

I've done that, for me the 13" MBP wins by a huge margin.

That's my third try in 3 years with high end Sony notebooks ... this time I've learned my lesson... no more Sony computers for me.

+1 Thats's why most top designers use Macs.

Can't afford Windows foolishness.
: ) I know I can't.

 

[airplaneman]

I was planning to get MBP 13 but after last update I'm thinking of waiting bit longer before Apple gets its act together. One of my colleague uses Z11 on daily basis and I've seen machine on daily basis. It has everything that MBP 15 has and few more things and still it can manage to push every thing within 13" form factor so why cant Apple ?
Here is quote directly from my friend which makes every MBP 13 user cringe little bit considering fact that Apple brags lot about Mac v/s PC war. Probably Mac lost some of cool in this release.

As a Z11 user, I can tell you that it's an awesomely performing machine...blisteringly fast. And it's a good gaming machine to boot. With an independent (no broadband subscription required) GPS receiver, integrated broadband (if I ever decide I want to use it) a full 1GB of dedicated Video RAM,up to 512GB SSD storage, 1600 x 900 Sony display tray-... See Moreloading Dual layer DVD writer (blue ray optional)...on and on the list goes.

Oh, and it stays cool to the touch by some miracle. I was just gaming on it (Bioshock 2) for an hour or so and both the top and bottom was cool to the touch (or BARELY warm), even though the air leaving the exhaust vent was very HOT. Sony might be letting some of it's model lines "slip" in engineering prowess, but the Z series shows they still have it when they choose to.

It's simple: read the four pages of responses, for a start; I have little left to say. I will not use Windows, as OS X blows it out of the water (and into space). It has 10 hours of battery life, an awesome screen, a killer trackpad, and good looks. The baseprice is nearly half that of the Sony, etc... I could go on all day, but I have better things to do . Comparing apples to oranges (or, ahem, glass) is a waste of time and not accurate. If you want a computer loaded with specs and bogged down with Windows, VAIO is the way to go.

 

[///M5]

Thank god a post from someone who's used both, now we can close this silly thread

Silly thread? Is it because you're just in denial that the Sony Z is better than any MBP out there? I, for one, don't see this as a silly thread.

I've owned the Vaio Z11 (with the specs in the signature) for 2 months now, and haven't touched any of the Macs I own (also listed in the sig.) since I started using the Z.

I said this before, and will say it again, for me Windows 7 is doing just fine, frankly, I kinda like it better than OS X. The taskbar is finally the way it should've been ages ago. It's user friendly and pretty stable.

I also see that the Z screen is superior to any Mac screen I've owned. Though I have the 1920x1080 screen, not the one OP's buddy has.

You guys just won't admit that Sony did a terrific job designing this machine. The fact is, the Vaio Z wins here, no matter how you look at it. I don't really care about the unibody thingy everyone is praising, I actually find it uncomfortable to use over prolonged period of time because of the sharp edges. I much prefer using the so called "plastic" Z over the unibody, the "plastic" is also cooler btw.

Anyone of you hit the notebookreview forums? You see how many posters have converted from Mac to the Vaio Z?

For the record, I don't have screen issues nor heating issues at all with my Z.

To the OP: make sure to put on the fanboys flames shield when posting such threads.

 

[koruki]

Silly thread? Is it because you're just in denial that the Sony Z is better than any MBP out there? I, for one, don't see this as a silly thread.

I've owned the Vaio Z11 (with the specs in the signature) for 2 months now, and haven't touched any of the Macs I own (also listed in the sig.) since I started using the Z.

I said this before, and will say it again, for me Windows 7 is doing just fine, frankly, I kinda like it better than OS X. The taskbar is finally the way it should've been ages ago. It's user friendly and pretty stable.

I also see that the Z screen is superior to any Mac screen I've owned. Though I have the 1920x1080 screen, not the one OP's buddy has.

You guys just won't admit that Sony did a terrific job designing this machine. The fact is, the Vaio Z wins here, no matter how you look at it. I don't really care about the unibody thingy everyone is praising, I actually find it uncomfortable to use over prolonged period of time because of the sharp edges. I much prefer using the so called "plastic" Z over the unibody, the "plastic" is also cooler btw.

Anyone of you hit the notebookreview forums? You see how many posters have converted from Mac to the Vaio Z?

For the record, I don't have screen issues nor heating issues at all with my Z.

To the OP: make sure to put on the fanboys flames shield when posting such threads.

Some praise the unibody, but you hate it. Some prefer OSX but you enjoy Win 7, etc. Can you see why this thread is silly, its pretty much two sides arguing about preferences.

You might want to sell the rest of your Macs in your sig cause a PC desktop runs cooler than the iMac. Apple isn't out to compete with hardware spec for spec, they put packages together and sell to those who choose to buy it. Hence the reason I choose PC for desktop, but I love Apples laptop offering for the reasons you dislike it (unibody)

Flame suit remark, I agree lol.

 

[Penn Jennings]

I think I'm putting things in wrong terms here and offending lot of Apple fans. My point of posting Z11 v/s MBP 13 was because ArsTechnica and Steve mentioned that because of technical reasons they opted for lower specs for MBP 13. All I'm trying to point is that is not entirely true, It is possible to cram lot more in 13" form factor than what Apple managed to. I dont care if you buy one of other, it is your money and your needs. But please stop thread crapping - this are kind of behaviour that makes one feel Apple users are clueless.

Some how I think that you are missing the biggest points.

The MBP 13 is about price, portability and efficiency. Not break neck performance. Apple has decided that they don't want several dozen different MBP configurations, which is the right thing to do IMHO. Lets be honest, not many people will pay around $2K for MBP 13 when the MBP 15 might only be a hundred dollars so more.

I'm willing to bet that the MBP is makes less noise, produces less heat, will last longer on a battery charge AND will have a longer overall life span.

I will concede though that Apple "could" have done more in the way bumping up the hardware. From a marketing stand point though, the MBP 13 is still very nicely positioned. I'd prefer the current approach, which delivers a product that we can be confident in as opposed to quickly slamming new hardware into old products and suffering through issues.

All just my opinion though.

 

[entatlrg]

Silly thread? Is it because you're just in denial that the Sony Z is better than any MBP out there? I, for one, don't see this as a silly thread.

I've owned the Vaio Z11 (with the specs in the signature) for 2 months now, and haven't touched any of the Macs I own (also listed in the sig.) since I started using the Z.

I said this before, and will say it again, for me Windows 7 is doing just fine, frankly, I kinda like it better than OS X. The taskbar is finally the way it should've been ages ago. It's user friendly and pretty stable.

I also see that the Z screen is superior to any Mac screen I've owned. Though I have the 1920x1080 screen, not the one OP's buddy has.

You guys just won't admit that Sony did a terrific job designing this machine. The fact is, the Vaio Z wins here, no matter how you look at it. I don't really care about the unibody thingy everyone is praising, I actually find it uncomfortable to use over prolonged period of time because of the sharp edges. I much prefer using the so called "plastic" Z over the unibody, the "plastic" is also cooler btw.

Anyone of you hit the notebookreview forums? You see how many posters have converted from Mac to the Vaio Z?

For the record, I don't have screen issues nor heating issues at all with my Z.

To the OP: make sure to put on the fanboys flames shield when posting such threads.

So YOU like your Sony Z more than Mac laptops, that's great. Where you loose your credibility is with your smart ass'd remarks.

Your experience with your Z is different than mine. In my experience the Sony Z is not near as good to use a daily work horse as my 13" MBP.

The lower resolution screen on the MBP blows away the hi-res hyped Sony screen, it's so much poorer this year compared to the '09/'08 models.

My 13" MBP is much cooler, quieter, has a better keyboard, I run Win7 often with zero problems, funny thing was how much faster win7 boots on my MBP compared to the high power Z, lol.

No heat continuously blowing from the left side vent, no more poor viewing angles, the Z has a cheap feel to it, the MBP doesn't.

All I can say is I'm SO HAPPY to be rid of the Z ... as I posted earlier I tried Sony Z's three times in the past three years because of the hype I read.

Yea, they crammed a lot of power under the hood, power that in reality only a small percentage of users need, they did accomplish that. It's too bad they missed the mark on so many other details, related to user experience, quality, and day to day use.

 

[Penn Jennings]

Silly thread? Is it because you're just in denial that the Sony Z is better than any MBP out there? I, for one, don't see this as a silly thread.

I've owned the Vaio Z11 (with the specs in the signature) for 2 months now, and haven't touched any of the Macs I own (also listed in the sig.) since I started using the Z.

I said this before, and will say it again, for me Windows 7 is doing just fine, frankly, I kinda like it better than OS X. The taskbar is finally the way it should've been ages ago. It's user friendly and pretty stable.

I also see that the Z screen is superior to any Mac screen I've owned. Though I have the 1920x1080 screen, not the one OP's buddy has.

You guys just won't admit that Sony did a terrific job designing this machine. The fact is, the Vaio Z wins here, no matter how you look at it. I don't really care about the unibody thingy everyone is praising, I actually find it uncomfortable to use over prolonged period of time because of the sharp edges. I much prefer using the so called "plastic" Z over the unibody, the "plastic" is also cooler btw.

Anyone of you hit the notebookreview forums? You see how many posters have converted from Mac to the Vaio Z?

For the record, I don't have screen issues nor heating issues at all with my Z.

To the OP: make sure to put on the fanboys flames shield when posting such threads.

The Z looks like a great machine.

But no one buys a MBP to the latest and greatest hardware. MBP never have the best and newest hardware. You buy a MBP because it is very well built, well tested, easy to use, efficient and long lasting.

For people that want to chase the newest and best hardware, HP, Sony or Dell will always be more to your liking, even if less reliable (You can look at 3rd party surveys for that). However, a MBP will NOT be to your liking ... move along.

We can all be friends without having the exact same priorities when it comes to hardware.

 

[macbookpro13]

If the 13" MBP can have a 10 hour battery life, a large, effective multitouch trackpad, OS X, and aluminum unibody construction, than why can't the Sony Z11?

The Sony is a damn nice looking laptop, but it doesn't match the MBP in some key areas. Whether you go with Apple or Sony, you're making some concessions. And a lot of people don't care about video games, or at least don't care about playing them on computers, so sacrificing top of the line specs at the expense of things like battery life, coolness, form factor, etc., seems like a great trade.

 

[Sefk]

MBP unibody, as an industrial standard of balance between design, build quality and portability has been unchallenged for a for years (yeah, I know that Elitebooks are built like tank, but they also have the weigh of a tank). What the OP wants to point out is: hey guys, finally someone (Sony) decided to challenge Apple, and it seems that MBP are not the industrial leader anymore.

I think the claim is valid, the Vaio Z11 is a very nice machine and overall, if we remove the OS X/Windows 7 factors, we probably have a new industrial leader. It has to happen one day: PC manufactures have to build competitive machines and if Apple don't innovate, somebody will surpass them.

But, the thing is: MBP are still good machines (slightly expensive IMO, but I don't care since for what I am doing OS X is required).

If the 13" MBP can have a 10 hour battery life, a large, effective multitouch trackpad, OS X, and aluminum unibody construction, than why can't the Sony Z11?

(1) For a laptop with a 330m in it, the sony Z11 has a very good battery life
(2) mouse FTW, sorry
(3) Sony can't have OS X, but that's Apple's fault
(4) Aluminum construction of MBP is somewhat overrated.

 

[macbookpro13]

MBP unibody, as an industrial standard of balance between design, build quality and portability has been unchallenged for a for years (yeah, I know that Elitebooks are built like tank, but they also have the weigh of a tank). What the OP wants to point out is: hey guys, finally someone (Sony) decided to challenge Apple, and it seems that MBP are not the industrial leader anymore.

I think the claim is valid, the Vaio Z11 is a very nice machine and overall, if we remove the OS X/Windows 7 factors, we probably have a new industrial leader. It has to happen one day: PC manufactures have to build competitive machines and if Apple don't innovate, somebody will surpass them.

But, the thing is: MBP are still good machines (slightly expensive IMO, but I don't care since for what I am doing OS X is required).



(1) For a laptop with a 330m in it, the sony Z11 has a very good battery life
(2) mouse FTW, sorry
(3) Sony can't have OS X, but that's Apple's fault
(4) Aluminum construction of MBP is somewhat overrated.

(1) So how many hours does it last on average? My 2009 MBP averages about 5-6 hours unplugged. I don't care about the 1gb 330m. Means nothing to me. In a year or two, even Intel's graphics will be more than enough for my uses.

(2) It's a laptop. It's supposed to be portable. I don't want to have to carry around a mouse every where I go. It's Sony's job to provide an equivalent trackpad. Seriously, it can't be that hard. Not to mention a mouse would be rather difficult to use in places I often use my macbook (like airport terminals).

(3) Doesn't matter whose fault it is, I can't get OS X anywhere but on macs.

(4) How so? It's rigid, sturdy, easy to keep clean, and looks better than anything else out there.

 

[elpmas]

They also offer a $4,499.99 model that has an i7, 8GB RAM, Blu Ray, 1080p screen, 1GB dedicated graphicz card and x-ray vision to look through wallz!!!

BTW you could buy 3 MBP 13"s with a Windows license for each, and a PS3 and a new TV for that price.

My point is that the MBP is a lot cheaper than the Z, not really in the same class at all. The cheapest Z is $700 more than the cheapest MBP.

this is a good comparison to mac pro and a car

 

[wisty]

The Z is more a desktop-replacement machine. I doubt it has the battery life, and it's heavier. Apple could make a similar machine, but they opted for more portability. If you want raw specs, get a PC or an iMac, or maybe a MacPro.

Nobody denies that Apple is usually worse on specs/price. People get a Mac so they can use OSX. A few people buy them for the better design. But it doesn't stack up too badly.

I like Macs for their muiti-touch trackpads, spotlight, integrated apps (iPhoto etc), beautiful slick interface, stability, deep sleep, and UNIX capabilities (I'm a programmer).

When I got my old Macbook, it had an integrated webcam and a good trackpad, which was a little special. Now they have nice screens, backlit keyboards, better trackpads, and other cool features. They can lag on non-Apple features (i.e. BlueRay), but I prefer the stuff that Apple does well then the latest cutting-edge PC features (yawn).

If I wanted a gaming machine, I'd get a desktop PC, or a console. But Macs are better at the stuff I use them for.

 

[vant]

I'm glad there is a laptop for those wanting the maximum specs.

Unfortunately, the average consumer can care less. Usability and simplicity will take the cake.

If you like the Z11, then buy it. No point in ragging on the MBP13 for not being able to fight every machine out there. The MBP13 was designed with simplicity and value in mind. Thats why it will always outsell and outprofit the Z series.

 

[dsprimal]

conclusion: MBP FTW!

 

[mark28]

I've played with them both in the apple store, and you're right - the difference is negligible. The problem will come when people start to use graphic intense software such as Adobe CS, Rhino 3D, 3D Studio Max, final cut etc.

I agree the13" MBP is powerful enough for most people's needs but as a PRO machine it should be able to do the tasks that professionals need. The macbook is apple's consumer line. If that was given that the aluminium unibody, most people would buy that as most people are only worried about how it looks, not how it performs.

OSX is known to be sucky for HT. Once Apple improves HT support under OSX, the difference between C2D and i5/i7 under OSX will be alot more clear.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Interestingly he was using Z series prior to this and upgraded to Z11. He uses his laptop very rigorously so I know he puts it to work. I've used some Vaio's in past and have one of FW290 in my current use. So far no issues.

More power to him. I know when I looked around, the Vaio's stood out in features for the price. Since I have never owned one, all I know is that in years past, people have told me that they had to be treated very gently. But, your point is well-taken: they do seem to offer a lot of features. They also are not cheap, just like the Macs are not cheap, though ...

On a side note I see most of people on forum recommending Applecare, so let me ask you if Apple products are excellent quality and built to last why people are paying extra $250 on top of product price in buying Applecare ?

It is a form of insurance like any other. You have one problem, and, it gets fixed, and, you see your friend with an HP, and, when the warranty runs out, it is expensive and very time-consuming to get fixed, and, ... This could happen with any brands. But, this is where the difference is: in my experience, Apple is committed to getting your machine up and running again. If Apple was lackadaisical about it, then, it wouldn't be worth it. As for being built to last, I know a lot of people (including myself) who have old Macs that refuse to die, but, just don't have enough memory to do today's jobs and boot today's OS's.

Is it all hype or what ? I can understand your point in defending MBP but there is no point in blindly following things when it is clearly proven technically what Apple is selling in MBP 13 is not at par with what competition is upto now. At the end of day it is your money and if you think throwing it at Apple is the only way you can spend it go for it.

At the end of the day, most Mac people today feel that OSX and the associated free/inexpensive apps are worth a lot in both money not spent and convenience. For myself, it is also a huge advantage having a BSD Unix based system with a convenient terminal program that gives me a time-tested Unix prompt, and, at the same time (I also get the terminal and prompt on Linux), a user-friendly environment that my family can use without fear (on their part and my part).