If Sony Vaio Z11 can why not MBP 13 ?

[mjoshi123]

I dont get this whole argument on build quality of machine when I started this to state that it is technically feasible to stuff in amount of components that are in 15" MBP & some more in 13" form factor. But it seems people cannot stand this simple basic fact, they are throwing mud as if they are building this systems and their name is on it instead of Apple. Guys cool down, come Winter 2010 we all will see iX processor in MBP 13 and probably higher resolution screen with same price point. All boils down to money factor, my only take on this matter is Steve tried to put spin on issue which is a common business matter. We as a user will always buy whatever fits our need (unlike some of this forum - who will not buy anything that is not personally blessed by Steve).

 

[UKBeast]

Not many or any here are questioning the 'specs' or 'power' of the Z.

Day to day user experience and what the majority of people use a computer for the 13" MBP in my opinion is a MUCH better computer to use, view, type on etc etc than a Sony Z.

Did a page open a second faster, maybe, can you play all kinds of games on the Z's compared to the MBP's probably ... neither of those are important to me. I have a ps3, xbox and wii for that.

Give the majority of people a Sony Z for a week and then a 13" MBP for a week, and I'll bet a lot of money the 13" MBP will win by a LARGE margin.

I'm a business user, casual user, from 3D drawing to watching movies, editing photo's/video I spend a lot of time on a computer and do a wide range of things.

I've owned enough SZ's and Z's now, (2 SZ and 3 Z's) and had enough experience with Win7 now to know for sure it's not for me. If I wasn't an Apple fan boy before I am now

Apple has found incredible ways to assemble their electronics (AND software) so it just works, no not the highest fastest spec's but wow REALLY nice laptops that handle tasks very well.

Totally agree

If you want games, get a console..
If you want a computer, get a mac.

Windows is only good for office tasks..

 

[sturmnacht]

Totally agree

If you want games, get a console..
If you want a computer, get a mac.

Windows is only good for office tasks..

TBH, it's all about the operating system. OS X is unquestionably a no contest. I bet if Apple can make an 'Apple' version of the Vaio Z (weight, size, graphics, blu-ray, quad SSD, everything that Sony has done), Apple would monopolize like iPod has done to all other MP3 players -- GUARANTEED -- even when it is priced 50% more than the Vaio Z. It is unfortunate that Apple chickened out on taking a leap forward on the hardware and instead incrementally increased performance just enough to keep the sales momentum going; but for now, Sony is celebrating for its hardware achievement on the Vaio Z as the only truly full-featured ultraportable laptop in existence thus far.

 

[RonnyC]

Totally agree

If you want games, get a console..
If you want a computer, get a mac.

Windows is only good for office tasks..

This again misses the point somewhat...

From what I am lead to believe, the macbook pro started out with the intention for providing pro users a suitable platform to carry out their day-to-day work on the go. The majority of these pro users were design professionals who valued the speed of the mac using software such as the adobe suite (photoshop, illustrator etc.)

In my opinion, the 13" MBP is not a pro machine as it is not fully capable of running this type of software to its full potential, due to it being under-spec'd. This for me is the major gripe as I would like a portable laptop that I can still run this type of software on.

I'm not having a dig at macs because, as I mentioned earlier, I think they are better machines with a better OS. It's just a bit frustrating that the 13" isn't all that it COULD be and if Apple stayed true to their original user base the 13" MBP would be more powerful (or at least would have the option to upgrade with BTO)

 

[FrinkTL]

Totally agree

If you want games, get a console..
If you want a computer, get a mac.

Windows is only good for office tasks..

OK. But what if i want an ultra-light computer that also plays games without skipping a CPU cycle? Apple got one of those? Hmmm...certainly not the MBP. What if I also need that computer to do all my office work on? By your reasoning, I should buy 3 pieces of hardware.

Instead, I chose to buy the Vaio Z, which, as Mjoshi123 states, manages to cram absolutely everything I'd ever possibly need on a desktop into a 13" ultra-portable, 3lb laptop. It's a fast desktop that I can take with me everywhere I go without weighing me down or skimping me on performance.

 

[UKBeast]

This again misses the point somewhat...

From what I am lead to believe, the macbook pro started out with the intention for providing pro users a suitable platform to carry out their day-to-day work on the go. The majority of these pro users were design professionals who valued the speed of the mac using software such as the adobe suite (photoshop, illustrator etc.)

In my opinion, the 13" MBP is not a pro machine as it is not fully capable of running this type of software to its full potential, due to it being under-spec'd. This for me is the major gripe as I would like a portable laptop that I can still run this type of software on.

I'm not having a dig at macs because, as I mentioned earlier, I think they are better machines with a better OS. It's just a bit frustrating that the 13" isn't all that it COULD be and if Apple stayed true to their original user base the 13" MBP would be more powerful (or at least would have the option to upgrade with BTO)

pro is just the name, what you see is what get.

It is an option for people who wants to a get an aliminum, firewire and better gpu Macbook white..

If you do not like the macbook white because of enclosure it comes, you will get a 13inch mac pro.

 

[UKBeast]

OK. But what if i want an ultra-light computer that also plays games without skipping a CPU cycle? Apple got one of those? Hmmm...certainly not the MBP. What if I also need that computer to do all my office work on? By your reasoning, I should buy 3 pieces of hardware.

Instead, I chose to buy the Vaio Z, which, as Mjoshi123 states, manages to cram absolutely everything I'd ever possibly need on a desktop into a 13" ultra-portable, 3lb laptop. It's a fast desktop that I can take with me everywhere I go without weighing me down or skimping me on performance.

This is like wanting bus size ferrari, or a ferrari size bus

 

[RonnyC]

pro is just the name, what you see is what get.

It is an option for people who wants to a get an aliminum, firewire and better gpu Macbook white..

If you do not like the macbook white because of enclosure it comes, you will get a 13inch mac pro.

That's quite possibly the worst reply I've seen on here so far! the PRO shouldn't only be a name, it should offer the performance of a pro machine. Simply claiming its a choice between white plastic and aluminium is missing the point.

Both the 15" and 17" offer a PRO spec in my opinion but the 13" doesn't hence why everyone is disappointed. It's that simple really

 

[sturmnacht]

OK. But what if i want an ultra-light computer that also plays games without skipping a CPU cycle? Apple got one of those? Hmmm...certainly not the MBP. What if I also need that computer to do all my office work on? By your reasoning, I should buy 3 pieces of hardware.

Instead, I chose to buy the Vaio Z, which, as Mjoshi123 states, manages to cram absolutely everything I'd ever possibly need on a desktop into a 13" ultra-portable, 3lb laptop. It's a fast desktop that I can take with me everywhere I go without weighing me down or skimping me on performance.

That's the whole point of the Vaio Z.

 

[mjoshi123]

TBH, it's all about the operating system. OS X is unquestionably a no contest. I bet if Apple can make an 'Apple' version of the Vaio Z (weight, size, graphics, blu-ray, quad SSD, everything that Sony has done), Apple would monopolize like iPod has done to all other MP3 players -- GUARANTEED -- even when it is priced 50% more than the Vaio Z. It is unfortunate that Apple chickened out on taking a leap forward on the hardware and instead incrementally increased performance just enough to keep the sales momentum going; but for now, Sony is celebrating for its hardware achievement on the Vaio Z as the only truly full-featured ultraportable laptop in existence thus far.

Agreed that everything Apple touches turns into gold but to say that OS X is unquestionably a no contest is a way far from reality. Every software has flaws there is no flawless system. If you are under feeling that OS X is secure and could not be hacked or wont crash than you are living in fantasy land. I can crash my Mac Mini in iPhoto 09 as easily as I can bring down Win 7 machine. OS X users are not seeing malware or viruses because they are not intended target for people who writes this things, not because OS X is secure and safe. Check this article to see new threats posing for OS X.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...alware-could-open-a-back-door-to-your-mac.ars
Also there was recent case where School was able to spy on kids on their Macbooks using their webcams. So to say that one platform is better than others is all relative. There are features in OSX which are good and same can be said for Win 7. Only good thing I can think about OS X is it will atleast allow you to run Win 7 in virtualization, thanks to Microsoft for not being dick like Steve.
Also you are talking about monopoly, think about it - if in near future MS releases a patch which basically goes and makes iTune incompatible with Windows OS. What will happen to Apple stock ? iTunes is a proven resource hog on Windows platform but MS still let it play. There are better alternatives to iTunes that donot consume as much resources as iTunes.

 

[RonnyC]

That's the whole point of the Vaio Z.

And as the flagship 13" laptop, it should be Apple's too in my opinion

 

[fr4c]

In the end, it all comes down to user preference (and also how far your wallet goes). I myself sold my 2008 MBP in anticipation for the new updates, and was really disappointed in the 13" offerings and was unwilling to sacrifice portability and weight to go with the 15" MBP. I just purchased a new Vaio Z yesterday, and so far I am very pleased with the features and capabilities of the machine. Is it a Mac? No, but it does everything I need to do and more. I still have my Mac Pro at home and will never give up OSX, but Windows, and Sony for that matter, really made something good out of this machine and its definitely a step in the right direction.

At the end of the day, its all about choices. I was able to fit an Intel i7, 256GB SSD in RAID 0, 8GB DDR3 RAM, and 1GB GT 330M in one package. I was using the machine yesterday on the standard battery, and I was able to easily achieve 6 hours with full brightness and wifi. Granted I need to use the larger extended battery to reach the new MBP's rating of 10 hours, but I'm regardless still happy.

Now if Apple were to offer the similar specs, I would jump ship in a heart beat. But that might require me to sacrifice my next child....

 

[sturmnacht]

And as the flagship 13" laptop, it should be Apple's too in my opinion

I beg to differ. Vaio Z is the flagship 13" laptop when you look at just the hardware itself.

If you emphasize on the operating system more than the hardware, then all of Apple's laptops are flagship laptops (even the white MacBooks).

 

[gwsat]

Sorry, but the truth is the answer to that question [whether the Sony Vaio Z is better than the MBP] ALWAYS relies on how you will USE the machine. The answer, then, by definition varies according to your intended use. Every machine has it's niche market and every single one of them represents some sort of compromise. The question is which compromise best matches your use.

This is absolutely right. There has been a debate raging in the MBA Forum over whether the iPad is a reasonable substitute for an MBA. The answer, of course, as you wisely stated above, depends on how you will use it because the design of every ultra lightweight is based on a series of compromises.

I bought an iPad last week when I learned that Apple was not updating the MBA. I did so with full knowledge of the iPad's weaknesses compared to a full fledged computer, which both the Z and the MBA are but the iPad certainly is not. Nevertheless, the iPad has a great display, is very small, weighs only 1.5 pounds, and has a 10 hour battery. By the way, as nice as the refreshed MBPs are, it seems to me that even the 13 inch MBP doesn't belong in this discussion because it weighs 4.5 pounds. It's a great computer and if I hadn't wanted an ultra portable machine I likely would have bought one but wouldn't want to try to carry it around open in one hand.

 

[ippikiokami]

I beg to differ. Vaio Z is the flagship 13" laptop when you look at just the hardware itself.

If you emphasize on the operating system more than the hardware, then all of Apple's laptops are flagship laptops (even the white MacBooks).

Oh give me a break here... it's comments like these coming from either camp (mac or pc) that just baffle me

 

[RonnyC]

Oh give me a break here... it's comments like these coming from either camp (mac or pc) that just baffle me

You beat me to it!

In any case, I wasn't speaking about a flagship for the whole market but the MBP is supposedly the flagship range for Apple. Correct me if I'm wrong but it wasn't that long ago that this also meant they was the flagship laptops for the entire market (ie. the Apple laptops were the most capable around including PC's)

 

[sturmnacht]

You beat me to it!

In any case, I wasn't speaking about a flagship for the whole market but the MBP is supposedly the flagship range for Apple. Correct me if I'm wrong but it wasn't that long ago that this also meant they was the flagship laptops for the entire market (ie. the Apple laptops were the most capable around including PC's)

Yes, the 12" Powerbook was besting all PCs of its time.
The 15"/17" MBP, on the other hand, has always been the best in performance/physical volume ratio. No Windows machine have beaten the 15"/17" yet. Gaming laptops don't count, because they are always thicker.

 

[ippikiokami]

You beat me to it!

In any case, I wasn't speaking about a flagship for the whole market but the MBP is supposedly the flagship range for Apple. Correct me if I'm wrong but it wasn't that long ago that this also meant they was the flagship laptops for the entire market (ie. the Apple laptops were the most capable around including PC's)

I believe during the time of the santa rosa MBP you could argue they were not only cutting edge (processor, video card, size etc) but also very reasonable in pricing too.

 

[Beric]

Yes, the 12" Powerbook was besting all PCs of its time.
The 15"/17" MBP, on the other hand, has always been the best in performance/physical volume ratio. No Windows machine have beaten the 15"/17" yet.

Sorry, but the HP Envy 15 second gen (not the first gen with heating issues) beats the 15" MBP in specs all the way. 1080P display, DX11, sans optical drive, yet runs very cool. And it's thin and light.

 

[RonnyC]

Sorry, but the HP Envy 15 second gen (not the first gen with heating issues) beats the 15" MBP in specs all the way. 1080P display, DX11, sans optical drive, yet runs very cool. And it's thin and light.

Not denying that, it seems as though PC manufacturers have caught Apple up to a certain extent. They will never have OSX though which will always be the major selling point of the MBP. However, once upon-a-time you had both OSX and a superior spec on mac laptops which seems to be a thing of the past.

Whether this is PC manufacturers catching up, Apple being complacent or diverting their attention to other things is a matter of debate...

 

[diablo2112]

Sorry, but the HP Envy 15 second gen (not the first gen with heating issues) beats the 15" MBP in specs all the way. 1080P display, DX11, sans optical drive, yet runs very cool. And it's thin and light.

Not to mention USB 3.0 on the new Envys....

That's an awesome looking PC. I didn't have a chance to see one in person, or I might have gone with that instead of the MBP.

 

[FrinkTL]

... They will never have OSX though which will always be the major selling point of the MBP. However, once upon-a-time you had both OSX and a superior spec on mac laptops which seems to be a thing of the past...

IMHO, anytime the "major selling point" of a piece of hardware - which the MBP is - is the the software/OS it comes with, that speaks volumes about the quality/performance/experience of the hardware. An ideal notebook is one where the hardware and software/OS come together in a 2-tiered assault on your experience, totally flooring the user with awe and amazement. A truly awesome piece of hardware can just about make you "forget" about the shortcomings of the OS it comes with.

 

[RonnyC]

IMHO, anytime the "major selling point" of a piece of hardware - which the MBP is - is the the software/OS it comes with, that speaks volumes about the quality/performance/experience of the hardware. An ideal notebook is one where the hardware and software/OS come together in a 2-tiered assault on your experience, totally flooring the user with awe and amazement. A truly awesome piece of hardware can just about make you "forget" about the shortcomings of the OS it comes with.

I disagree slightly as I think the software 'experience' of the OS can mask inadequate hardware to a certain extent. But I agree that they both need to work together, and get a balance. This is achieved in the 15" and 17" but I think OSX is partly masking the poor performance of the 13".

In other words, put those specs in a Windows machine and its a dog of a laptop, on a mac it works but doesn't mean the 13" MPB is a good piece of hardware

 

[koyou]

It's funny to see that people here blame Apple on the new 13" MBP, while the Vaio Z owners blame Sony for the problems with the laptop. It's a long thread on notebookreview.com and below is a summary for the cons of Vaio Z, just for reference.

Cons:
1. No TPM modules for US Z1's
2. Fan noise is a problem for some. I'm fine with the noise level
3. No USB 3
4. Screen is bendy; I don't think this is a problem as Sony designed it to be this way
5. Some people hate the fact that the SSD's can't be user-replaced (at least not yet)
6. Some have reported "wavy" line with the screen. I didn't see this on either of the Z1's I've had.
7. Expensive
8. Speakers are poor, at best
9. Loose battery (easy fix with foam tape)
10. Keyboard/glossy carbon fiber lid are fingerprint prone
11. FHD screen is very pixel dense, some have a hard time reading on it.
12. Battery life is all over the map, but if you do things correctly, you should be able to get @4.5 hours on the standard size battery.

and more...

1. TRIM - has it been resolved?
2. Driver issues - black screen, blue screen, DPC latency spikes
3. Bezel causes screen distortion on lid open/close?
4. No HD screen on US CTO
5. SSD config better in Europe? (quad over dual)
6. Keys widely spaced compared to many other vaio chiclets
7. Some consider the palmrest ugly
8. Audio sockets poorly placed
9. Bizarre limitations of docking station and poorly designed connection port

 

[UKBeast]

I disagree slightly as I think the software 'experience' of the OS can mask inadequate hardware to a certain extent. But I agree that they both need to work together, and get a balance. This is achieved in the 15" and 17" but I think OSX is partly masking the poor performance of the 13".

In other words, put those specs in a Windows machine and its a dog of a laptop, on a mac it works but doesn't mean the 13" MPB is a good piece of hardware

I am wondering if you have used new 13inch mbp and 15inch mbp or not ?

I used them in Apple store, performance difference was negligible.