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iLife '05 and iWork '05

AL-FAMOUS said:
I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing,

dual G5's and PB's Brought by mummy and daddy maybe?

when i was a kid i wouldnt have been able to afford it either, but then again i dont think it was compatible with my system ( pencil and paper :) )
Click to expand...

You people... Must you go out of your way to not read or understand the situation, and then post replies with something as condescending as "mummy and daddy" ?

Sure, If I had lived my life differently, I could have all kinds of money. I could not spent a dime I have made sense I started working at a small airport FBO 5 years ago. I could not being going to college right now. Than I would have enough money to last me through a couple hundred years of iLife updates.

My original post was about being disappointed that the amount of money that I have now, on my current budget and income, wasn't enough to buy iLife at the new price point. When I had saved aside enough money to buy it at the old price point THAT IS IT. Are we not allowed to show disappointment around here?

I bought this powerbook after my junior summer instead of buying a car. From that point all money I made that year, and my senior summer, was written to college, leaving me with the amount I've already specified.
Do you own a car? Yes? Than stop complaining about not owning a Powerbook or G5. We all make choices.
Now if perhaps you had set aside money to buy a powerbook, and this Macworld saw all version of the Powerbook double in price, than I'd be more than willing to listen to your disappointment. I suppose we are all different people aye?

Now go back and read the bold section of my post again, just to make sure you get it. Yes, I can be condescending too ;) :D

~Tyler
 
JediL1 said:
I think the only reason that iWork hasn't replaced Appleworks for being pre-installed on new consumer macs is that iWork is missing a spreadsheet app. Appleworks already has a passable spreadsheet app.
Click to expand...
It also has a graphics application.

Until Apple has replaced Appleworks, it'd be nice to have a minor update to Appleworks that allows a better interaction with iWorks. Maybe that means the opening screen works with Pages and Keynote, or multiple different icons for each Appleworks app.
iMan said:
Otherwise: I think the prices are ok. Since the price is now starting to be more than "a few" bucks, I think Apple should consider to also include an upgrade path for the apps. I see both these packages getting regular updates from now on, and it seems a bit tough to cash out $159 (both packages) + a possible OS update at $129 once a year just to stay current... soon one might as well be buying a new Mac mini each year instead :D
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Plus your .Mac subscription.

It'd be nice for Apple to introduce a flat yearly charge that gives you .Mac, iLife, MacOS X, Quicktime Pro. (Maybe they'll do that and then slow down the releases tho)
 
Sagedaddy said:
Hello All,
This is my virgin post on MacRumors:Forums.

I received my iMac in December with iLife '04 preinstalled and with Apple software proof-of-purchace coupons for both iLife '04 and OS X 10.3.

Does this suggest to anybody a future upgrade path for recent hardware purchasers?
Click to expand...

Surely you jest. I've had tons of these coupons over the years and I'll be damned if they have ever been used.
 
Look at value, and iLife '05 is worth it

Yeah, I had to do a double-take when I saw the price this time around. Yeah, I'll get the educational discount, and it'll be a little easier to afford. But regardless of the discounts, or rises in price, iLife is still an amazing value. So much so, that every time I think about the January 22nd ship date, I get a little panicked, and hope that Apple doesn't "come to its senses" and start charging a little more.

Granted, these are all applications that were included free on my PB in May. Granted, I paid the original ed discount price on iLife '04 of $29 when it first came out last year. Granted, all of the apps, in one form or another, have all been free as either downloads or pre-loads. But here's the way I look at it:

Software engineers at Apple are working constantly on these apps. They're refining them, improving them, and in the case of Garageband last year, creating them from the ground up (I know it's built on Logic underpinnings, but whatever). We're getting updates throughout the year as issues are addressed, and when the whole package is released, it's a massive improvement over the previous version. Other software companies don't do half as much legwork as Apple does with some of its products, and people still chug away on those overpriced behemoths.

Garageband is my personal fav, and I think this version is one of the most exciting things I've been able to use on my Mac, and I've been on one since our SE/30 was still hi-tech. For the $59 ed price (or the normal $79 price of admission), you have an AMAZING sequencer/multitrack recorder, rivaling (and I hope I don't get flamed for this) many of the DAW's out there costing thousands. Granted, there are still limitations, but with creativity (and, we're all creative people, otherwise we'd be on another platform) those limitations can be overcome. Garageband has revolutionized the college radio station I'm the GM for: we can do on-the-fly production work that sounds like it came out of a glossy Clear Channel studio, and we're doing it with a used G4 and iLife.

Apple includes, partially in Core Audio, and partially in the package of Garageband, filters and tools that aren't even just pro-class, but are flat-out professional. The instruments included aren't the living end, but they're good, and all told, they're worth more than the price of the whole package. There is nothing comparable that offers the same open structure and versatility, nor the ease-of-use and elegant interface.

People still see me hacking up video in iMove and freak out, and here we are...half a decade since that application was released, and it still makes people drool.

iTunes is still the default music jukebox application, and has become an entry in our pop-culture lexicon, when someone says "Hey, that new CD is in my iTunes" they're actually using it to be synonymous with their music collection. Can Winamp or Windows Media Player say that?

What ever happened to saving up for something? Has our culture become that dependent on instant gratification that if something is not within our immediate reach that we gripe and moan? I may not be that up in years, but I was always taught that you should have goals, and that good things come to those who wait. Yeah, I can't afford iLife right this second -- I'll have to wait 'til I get my campus pay-check in February, but in the mean time, I'm going to be tossing in my sleep waiting for all the new stuff I'll be able to do, and when I finally get it, it will have made my pining, doing too much work babysitting all of the irresponsible adults in my dorm for too little pay -- all worth while.
 
TSEliotLives said:
Yeah, I had to do a double-take when I saw the price this time around. Yeah, I'll get the educational discount, and it'll be a little easier to afford. But regardless of the discounts, or rises in price, iLife is still an amazing value. So much so, that every time I think about the January 22nd ship date, I get a little panicked, and hope that Apple doesn't "come to its senses" and start charging a little more.

Granted, these are all applications that were included free on my PB in May. Granted, I paid the original ed discount price on iLife '04 of $29 when it first came out last year. Granted, all of the apps, in one form or another, have all been free as either downloads or pre-loads. But here's the way I look at it:

Software engineers at Apple are working constantly on these apps. They're refining them, improving them, and in the case of Garageband last year, creating them from the ground up (I know it's built on Logic underpinnings, but whatever). We're getting updates throughout the year as issues are addressed, and when the whole package is released, it's a massive improvement over the previous version. Other software companies don't do half as much legwork as Apple does with some of its products, and people still chug away on those overpriced behemoths.

Garageband is my personal fav, and I think this version is one of the most exciting things I've been able to use on my Mac, and I've been on one since our SE/30 was still hi-tech. For the $59 ed price (or the normal $79 price of admission), you have an AMAZING sequencer/multitrack recorder, rivaling (and I hope I don't get flamed for this) many of the DAW's out there costing thousands. Granted, there are still limitations, but with creativity (and, we're all creative people, otherwise we'd be on another platform) those limitations can be overcome. Garageband has revolutionized the college radio station I'm the GM for: we can do on-the-fly production work that sounds like it came out of a glossy Clear Channel studio, and we're doing it with a used G4 and iLife.

Apple includes, partially in Core Audio, and partially in the package of Garageband, filters and tools that aren't even just pro-class, but are flat-out professional. The instruments included aren't the living end, but they're good, and all told, they're worth more than the price of the whole package. There is nothing comparable that offers the same open structure and versatility, nor the ease-of-use and elegant interface.

People still see me hacking up video in iMove and freak out, and here we are...half a decade since that application was released, and it still makes people drool.

iTunes is still the default music jukebox application, and has become an entry in our pop-culture lexicon, when someone says "Hey, that new CD is in my iTunes" they're actually using it to be synonymous with their music collection. Can Winamp or Windows Media Player say that?
Click to expand...

I completely agree. My fear was more that they would split all the apps up and charge $50 a pop for each one. Though I only ever use iTunes and iPhoto, I do dabble in iMovie. Though without a video camera it because a bit hard to do anything but play around with that app. iDVD I've never used, though if I ever get a DV camera I'll be sure to put it to use. Garage band I wouldn't probably use. Open it up and take a peak, yes, but that's all. But who knows, I haven't touched it yet, as I'm still on iLife '03...if there was such a thing...

TSEliotLives said:
What ever happened to saving up for something? Has our culture become that dependent on instant gratification that if something is not within our immediate reach that we gripe and moan? I may not be that up in years, but I was always taught that you should have goals, and that good things come to those who wait. Yeah, I can't afford iLife right this second -- I'll have to wait 'til I get my campus pay-check in February, but in the mean time, I'm going to be tossing in my sleep waiting for all the new stuff I'll be able to do, and when I finally get it, it will have made my pining, doing too much work babysitting all of the irresponsible adults in my dorm for too little pay -- all worth while.
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I am somewhat curious who you were replying to with that statement.
I feel the same as you, a little disappointed at the higher price, but not shocked at it. I'd say I was actually relieved that since they decided to raise it, they ONLY raised it that much. But I still eagerly awaiting the day I can purchase it.

~Tyler
 
Price gripes

Earendil said:
I am somewhat curious who you were replying to with that statement.
I feel the same as you, a little disappointed at the higher price, but not shocked at it. I'd say I was actually relieved that since they decided to raise it, they ONLY raised it that much. But I still eagerly awaiting the day I can purchase it.

~Tyler
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Not necessarily targeted towards anyone, rather I guess it was my short vent at the seemingly never-ending gripes related to Apple's pricing. I mean, in other threads, people are complaining about the cost of the iPod Shuffle, and the cost of the Mac Mini (which really caught me off guard!). I understand that cost is an issue, and I am in the same boat as most people- I still don't own an iPod of any ilk, I don't upgrade every year (or every other year, for that matter -- it seems like I'm going on four-year cycles). However, I think it is important to keep in focus the price vs. performance of a lot of Apple's gear. Yeah, I'm not happy I'm going to have to fork over 30 more clams than I did last year for iLife, but I'm still going to do it, which says something fairly strong about not only Apple's marketing but it's products in general. That's all. No attack on you ;)
 
I'm interested in seeing what movies in iPhoto actually does.

Can I show a slideshow with a short movie? How does the movie sound get integrated with the backing music? How much control do we have?


It's interesting - in iMovie we take multiple short clips and drag them into a certain order, add some backing music, and watch it.

in iPhoto we take multiple still shots, drag them into a certain order, add some backing music, and watch it (we can't add titles like iMovie).

Bring these 2 models together and we may have a totally different way of watching a movie. Instead of smart albums with all the shots of "grandma", we could have a smart movie with the clips of "grandma" (for instance).


I drag iPhotos into iMovie sometimes, to join with video shots. It's a pain to add all the cross-fades to make it look like a standard iDVD slideshow - I hope the new iMovie does that automatically. Actually, in Final Cut Express, we can make a group of shots into a 'sequence', then insert that sequence into a bigger film. As a better integration, it'd be nice to have iPhoto slideshow "sequences" (basically albums as slideshows?) that we could pull into an iMovie.

Anyone got any knowledge on what iLife '05 offers?
 
so what does the average mac consumer who wants to do a bit of spreadsheeting do short of getting office?

:confused:
 
Harry K. said:
I heard from one rumor site that they thought there would be a serial number on iWork. Does anyone know how true that is? They wouldn't say it at Apple.com- "look a new serial number, too!" so any idea on that?
Click to expand...

Don't know the answer, but I surely hope so.
 
TSEliotLives said:
Not necessarily targeted towards anyone, rather I guess it was my short vent at the seemingly never-ending gripes related to Apple's pricing. I mean, in other threads, people are complaining about the cost of the iPod Shuffle, and the cost of the Mac Mini (which really caught me off guard!).
Click to expand...

The Mac Mini just goes to prove that no matter what Apple does in the way of products and pricing, there will be people who are not satisfied.

You're going to get people saying 'if they have just included keyboard and mouse, I would be happy'. But of course Apple would have to raise the price for that. So, assuming that the Mini was $549, you can well bet that there would be a crowd that would say 'if they have just decided NOT to include the keyboard and mouse, they could have sold it below $500 and it would be a killer!'
 
I've just ordered iLife '05 and iWork '05 (along with a midi to USB cable for GarageBand that I've been meaning to get for months!). Ouch my credit card is hurting a little, but I can hardly grumble at the price. These really are good value.

I have Word and PowerPoint, but iWork looks incredible. I've always hated the fact that Word has never really used Mac OS X to its greatest potential. It's fine for projects and reports but not newsletters or something with a few graphics. And I'm so glad I resisted the urge to get Keynote 1 last year. Now, I can pick up the new version as part of the package! It looks stunning.

As for iLife, I'm not that bothered about the HD in iMovie (don't have a decent video camera) but iDVD looks amazing, as does the new iPhoto. Most of the features I wanted are in that - folders, a search field and even more options for slideshows. GarageBand - couldn't give a monkeys about multi-track live recording although that will be great for some. What I will be liking is the music notation and improved performance - and finally GarageBand has a FREEZE TRACK feature (the "lock track" feature). That always helps with performance too.

I'm going to hold off upgrading to Final Cut Express HD (even though I'm glad I DO qualify for the upgrade price, despite only having the original version) because I can't afford that as well.

Oh, January 28th seems so far away... :p
 
You know I just dont see iWorks really being a competetor to MSoffice. Office is a entirly diffent ball park than iWorks.

Before some flames me over that comment let me explain it.

iWorks I see is more something like MSworks which is on the PC (which I believe is around 50 bucks but I know is less then 80). I see it as more of a way to give mac users a cheaper word processor and stuff like works has in it. More or less it seems like it is what is replacing appleworks.

Office on the other hand is loaded full of high powered apps and if you know how to use them and do use them they blow iWorks out of the water. I can go in to some detal about diffent parts of what office has in it and the raw power in them (that I can promises you vasit majority here has no clue of the capiblitly of office. I know a lot about some parts of it but I still have a lot of learn about it and I know that is by far more than well over 90% of the people out there know about office).

In the end iworks is basicly the Apple equivenlent of MSworks, word perifc sweet and so on.

MSoffice is in a very diffent ball park and iworks is blown out of the water if you compare it to MSoffice.
 
Harry K. said:
I heard from one rumor site that they thought there would be a serial number on iWork. Does anyone know how true that is?
Click to expand...
I haven't read that anywhere.

I think copy protection is a good idea - I think Apple can presume most computers are connected to the internet and when they are, can 'check in'. Hell, we have 3 registered computers for audio files, what's stopping something similar for software.

I have 2 provisos to this in my 'wish'...
1... if Apple (or any company) reduces piracy and sales increase in line with that, it should also reduce the cost of the software. Ie: they should make the same amount of money in the end.

2... I want to try before I buy. Give me Pages to work on 20 documents and I'll know if I want it.

I wonder if someone sends me a Pages files, if it will open in preview...
 
Timelessblur said:
You know I just dont see iWorks really being a competetor to MSoffice. Office is a entirly diffent ball park than iWorks.

Before some flames me over that comment let me explain it.

iWorks I see is more something like MSworks which is on the PC (which I believe is around 50 bucks but I know is less then 80). I see it as more of a way to give mac users a cheaper word processor and stuff like works has in it. More or less it seems like it is what is replacing appleworks.

Office on the other hand is loaded full of high powered apps and if you know how to use them and do use them they blow iWorks out of the water. I can go in to some detal about diffent parts of what office has in it and the raw power in them (that I can promises you vasit majority here has no clue of the capiblitly of office. I know a lot about some parts of it but I still have a lot of learn about it and I know that is by far more than well over 90% of the people out there know about office).

In the end iworks is basicly the Apple equivenlent of MSworks, word perifc sweet and so on.

MSoffice is in a very diffent ball park and iworks is blown out of the water if you compare it to MSoffice.
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't think iWork was created as a direct competitor for MS Office. They're very different. Plus, Apple doesn't wanna piss MS off.
 
Timelessblur said:
In the end iworks is basicly the Apple equivenlent of MSworks, word perifc sweet and so on.
Click to expand...
Actually, Word Perfect Office is a competitor to MS Office, not MS Works (though it is certainly cheaper). Same goes for Lotus SmartSuite.

We don't know what Pages can do, yet. We do know that Keynote is quite comparable to PowerPoint, but we also know iWork doesn't have a spreadsheet. iWork + Filemaker Pro gets a bit closer to MS Office Professional.
 
GregA said:
:
Click to expand...

"I think copy protection is a good idea - I think Apple can presume most computers are connected to the internet and when they are, can 'check in'."

And many Apple users will check out.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,53025,00.asp

"if Apple (or any company) reduces piracy and sales increase in line with that, it should also reduce the cost of the software. Ie: they should make the same amount of money in the end."

Software that can be used on more than one system is more valuable. I recently looked at spending $100 on some software for a potential Switcher who wanted to upgrade to a new version of the software for Windows and eventually move to OS X. Because the software company demanded that they be paid for both the Windows and OS X versions, I decided not to buy the software at all. That person is now using Open Source software for free, and the greedy company lost a customer. People who believe that forcing customers to fit into a controlled pricing scheme will instantly make new sales are part of the supply-driven economic camp. You can't treat customers like criminals and expect to have money thrown at you on demand. I was going to buy some software from Apple that was priced at $1,000. It didn't take long before the store demo failed because I removed something that looked like a keychain drive from the Mac's USB port so that I could use a USB device. I later found out that this thing was a copy-protection "dongle" device. The arrogance of a company to cripple its product and claim that this somehow "protects" me halted the sale. I put my money away and walked out. There's lots of better ways to spend money.
 
I for one am very excited about the new iPhoto enhancements.

I do professional photography on the side and I have only used iPhoto to datalog my stuff for easy browsing in the past. Now, with RAW support and enhanced editing features, I may never have to leave the app. I know it won't be as advanced as Photoshop, but I am really pleased with what they have done.

iWork doesn't have much for me, but it looks like an awesome application. I hope a spreadsheet is in the works, and then the MS Offic cord can start to be cut.

Ordering mine (iLife) Friday. :D
 
TSEliotLives said:
Has our culture become that dependent on instant gratification that if something is not within our immediate reach that we gripe and moan?
Click to expand...

The iWork package has a reasonable price, so I might want to buy it, but it must instantly work with the XML document standards. If it doesn't, it's as useless as AppleWorks because I can't exchange documents in proprietary formats and expect other people to read them.
 
arogge said:
GregA said:
"I think copy protection is a good idea - I think Apple can presume most computers are connected to the internet and when they are, can 'check in'."
Click to expand...
And many Apple users will check out.
<snip>
Software that can be used on more than one system is more valuable.
<snip>
People who believe that forcing customers to fit into a controlled pricing scheme will instantly make new sales are part of the supply-driven economic camp. You can't treat customers like criminals and expect to have money thrown at you on demand.
<snip>
I later found out that this thing was a copy-protection "dongle" device. The arrogance of a company to cripple its product and claim that this somehow "protects" me halted the sale.
Click to expand...
arogge, the criticism of MS's copy protection scheme is aimed at many things, and I agree with most of the criticism.

Questions for you
1) do you buy music from iTMS? Do you listen on multiple machines? Do you feel like Apple is treating you as a criminal?
2) is Apple capable of protecting its software in a better way than MS was going to?
3) If you could choose between $99 for "Fairplay" copy protected OSX 10.4 (for instance) or $129 for unprotected, which would you personally choose? (I suspect you'd go $129, I would not as I both want to be legal AND assume Apple will do it fairly).

Often the license conditions are important. My partner and I have 2 computers, we both have a login on each. I bought Quicktime Pro. I want to use Quicktime Pro on my logins on both computers, she doesn't. When you activate QT Pro, it only activates for a single user on the machine - thus the software lets me install it the way I want. But do I officially need 1 license or 2?

Same thing will happen if I buy iWork - she won't use it, I'll want it on both. I might act within the spirit of the license, but the license could disagree! This is where I am worried about protection devices.

So to be clear - I believe a company can protect its property. It must be flexible for the user though! And seamless! It needs to protect me if someone fakes my install ID, but also let me reinstall if I remove something (deregister?) off one machine or the machine dies.
 
iGary said:
Canon - I have a 20D and a 300D - I haven't even seen to see if it is supported. I assumed he meant all proprietary RAW files. :confused:
Click to expand...

RAW files from these cameras are supported in iPhoto:


Canon


EOS-1D MARK II

1DS

EOS 20D

EOS 10D

EOS D60

EOS Digital Rebel

PowerShot Pro 1

PowerShot G5

PowerShot G6



Konica Minolta


DiMAGE A2



Nikon


D100

D2H

D70

Coolpix 8700



Olympus


C-8080 Wide Zoom



Sony

F828
 
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