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Hey Canadian Education customers:
I was debating buying iWork '05 and then saw on the Education page to look in the "Special Deals" section for it, so I did and it was listed there as $49, although the French version was $65. So I added the $49 English version, and it was listed as $49 everywhere up until checkout, including the confirmation email Apple sent me. But when I go to check the order status, suddenly the price hasa jumped to $65. Isn't this false advertising or something?
 
GregA said:

"do you buy music from iTMS? Do you listen on multiple machines? Do you feel like Apple is treating you as a criminal?"

I don't buy anything from iTMS. I download some of the free stuff, but I hardly listen to it, and I don't copy the crippled files to other machines. Many of the free songs still have "Play Count: 0". I don't like DRM schemes, and I don't bother trying to crack them. If Apple doesn't want me to listen to the music the way I want, then I won't pay for it. I support the local music stores instead.

"is Apple capable of protecting its software in a better way than MS was going to?"

No, because what happens is that simple "protection" becomes schemes which require Internet connections and "dongle" devices. It's a complication that costs money and causes frustration for legitimate users who have paid lots of money for a crippled product. There are cracks for the "dongle" scheme, but I'm not going to pay $1,000 for a product that requires me to break into it. If a company wants to hog one of my USB ports, then let them pay for a USB port extender or pay rent for the use of the port. The company had no reply to that comment. :rolleyes:

"If you could choose between $99 for "Fairplay" copy protected OSX 10.4 (for instance) or $129 for unprotected, which would you personally choose?"

I'd pay more money for less hassle and a product that can't be disabled by a copy-protection scheme. I like how my copy of the original OS X CD-ROM can be used on any compatible Mac. If I need to reinstall or repair OS X on any Mac, I can use it without having to worry about copy-protection, and my OS X CD will still work after Apple discontinues support for it.

"Often the license conditions are important. My partner and I have 2 computers, we both have a login on each. I bought Quicktime Pro. I want to use Quicktime Pro on my logins on both computers, she doesn't. When you activate QT Pro, it only activates for a single user on the machine - thus the software lets me install it the way I want."

I have multiple user accounts for different tasks. QuickTime won't work if I use Fast User Switching?

"Same thing will happen if I buy iWork - she won't use it, I'll want it on both. I might act within the spirit of the license, but the license could disagree! This is where I am worried about protection devices."

That's also why I don't use software which includes such schemes.

"So to be clear - I believe a company can protect its property. It must be flexible for the user though! And seamless! It needs to protect me if someone fakes my install ID, but also let me reinstall if I remove something (deregister?) off one machine or the machine dies."

I believe that a company should better serve its customers by adding value to its products instead of demanding money with arrogant license schemes. A software company should guarantee the functionality of its software instead of claiming that anything wrong with it is the users' problem. Companies have shown that the use of copy-protection does not cause a decrease in prices. You're paying more money for the copy-protection development and getting nothing in return. It's like the magnetic security gates in stores that make annoying noises when a magnet passes near them. The only people those things really stop are stupid criminals and legitimate customers. A real shoplifter knows how to disable the magnetic tags. The stores claim that hundreds of security cameras, store guards, and anti-theft schemes will keep prices low, but the prices always seem to go up. When the prices don't go up, the quality and selection of the products decreases. Although software companies claim that copy-protection schemes will lower prices, if you compare the prices of software before and after such schemes were used, you might find that the prices have increased. Look at Microsoft, Macromedia, and Symantec - where is the reduction in prices that their schemes were supposed to cause? Even if companies did make more money by using copy-protection, the end user will not benefit from lower prices because extra earnings go to the executives and shareholders first. The only thing the end user might get is an increase in product quality, but with a decrease in usability and the risk that the product could be made useless by the copy-protection scheme. The big problem is not the user who wants to fairly use purchased software, but the criminals that make millions of CDs and sell them on the black market. That's not fair use, and they're making money and helping to create a monopoly for the software companies. Not surprisingly, companies like Microsoft do not attack this problem as much as they do the ordinary user. I used to send "piracy" reports to Microsoft and others when I saw spamvertised software, but the same spammers are still there months later. I sent a report about a Wintroll that was claiming he was using a "pirated" copy of some software, and Microsoft sent a reply back within a day, claiming that this user would be "investigated" quickly. But spammers at "cheapsoftware.cn" don't get the same response. If you want more software sales, you have to get your software into the hands of more people, who will then want to pay money for the perceived value of the next version and will pay money for support of the current version.
 
arogge said:
I have multiple user accounts for different tasks. QuickTime won't work if I use Fast User Switching?
When you purchase Quicktime Pro, you enter in an activation code.
That code is saved for your username on the computer you are on, so you would have to re-enter the code for each of your usernames to have the pro features.

The code itself can be entered all over the place, there's no copy protection scheme so that doesn't stop you. The license is the issue (and a personal desire to do the right thing).
arogge said:
The stores claim that hundreds of security cameras, store guards, and anti-theft schemes will keep prices low, but the prices always seem to go up.
Yeah, there's certainly little verifiable data on the effects (that I know of). They certainly catch some people, and make others fear getting caught, which in itself would reduce theft to some degree. I have no idea if the costs are justified.

edit: Did you know that when commercial companies started going into Russia, SCO did some market research and found they had 95% of the Unix market (SCO Xenix) - the thing was they only had sold 1 copy ever. They had to be very careful to keep their marketshare while also slowly making it legal :)
 
michaelal said:
Does anyone know if IMovie 5 now supports higher resolution pictures. I like to use IMovie to set up slideshows, but I am always disappointed that the resolution of the pictures I import is always so much less than the originals. :confused:

This is limited by the DV standard and not iMovie itself. DV is 720x480 all the time. So you can take your 4 MP pic and put it in iMovie (or FCE, FCP, or any other DV editor -- PC or Mac) and it will be downsized to 720x480. The best way to mitigate this is to use the Ken Burns effect.
 
LaMerVipere said:
I agree. I don't think iWork was created as a direct competitor for MS Office. They're very different. Plus, Apple doesn't wanna piss MS off.
I think Pages looks a lot more like MS Publisher than MS Word. I'm not really sure if it's meant to replace Word with corporate features like version comparison, tracking changes by user, etc.

I really like the look of Pages. The templates are a good idea (although it seems to follow Publisher here). I like the pre-filled text that was shown in the demo, but I think there needs to be a feature to tell you if you've updated all the text or not. Otherwise, the template is a potential liability if you leave placeholder stuff somewhere.
 
mcfudd said:
a good spreadsheet program is the enemy of great spreadsheet program.

very true. i have no problem if apple releases a spreadsheet clearly better than excel, but i just have to say apple is in front of a GREAT challenge in making that great spreadsheet that makes excel look bad.
 
winter artifice said:
Who wants to have to toggle between iWorks and Excel? I want a fully integrated office solution like all of Apple's other software and until that time comes I won't be completely happy with iWorks.

me, for example. that is a CHOICE that has not been possible until now. a kind of choice that is currently nonexistent in the windows world (yep, there's the corel office, but let's get real: it has sucked from the day they printed corel logo on it).

saying "i won't be happy until i can use totally apple-only computer" is no better than being a windows-lemming that cannot see why the media player sucks so bad. there's a good software made by microsoft (excel) and it has earned some respect. bashing it does no good, at least until apple has something real to offer and not just hopes and dreams.
 
sigamy said:
Features I was really hoping for:
iMovie/iDVD: surround sound support or at least simulated surround (pro-logic II). We now have HD and 16:9, how cool would it be to be able to add a surround sound mix to your iMovies?

there's already pro-logic support as it only takes a stereo channel to deliver it. the problem is just this: how will you be making the surround sound in the first place? you will need a multichannel pro audio app for that, and then you will have to have a professional dolby-licensed encoder for bouncing that surround mix into a stereo channel. apple will not be able to give that away for free, or for $79, as the surround encoder alone costs hundreds.

but if you really want to, you can get your soundtrack professionally made in a pro studio, and then insert that stereo soundtrack (that contains pro logic surround sound) into your home movie via imovie/idvd. it will work, however it doesn't come cheap.
 
The issue for me with the spreadsheet software is not that I don't want to use excel, but that I want to buy an entire office suite as a package.

From that perspective, MS office will always be the better package because it includes a spreadsheet, while iWork is missing that critical piece of functionality.

Excel is a great program. A great program which, unless apple includes something like it in iWork, is likely to draw people to Office instead.
 
fjs08 said:
OSX needs something to bind it together like Office does in the "other world."

how it is thinking differently if apple suddenly has to offer the same package microsoft does? apple is offering everything they can make better than the competition, or where apple sees potential to grow better. unless apple can think differently about the spreadsheet, they will not be offering an excel-clone, because they have seen what has happened to corel office and open office.

"not the one", people think, and keep using the old and familiar.
 
asphalt-proof said:
Why would you buy iWorks AND MS Office just so you can get the Excel?

excel is sold as a standalone app. iworks + excel however costs more than iworks alone, so that in mind it would be nice for many if apple indeed released a spreadsheet app.

for many average joes the only reason for using excel would be keeping their finances in order. it is however a great deal better alternative for apple to release a simple-to-use iFinance (or whatever) for that goal, rather than making an excel killer that should fulfill so many more needs than that.
 
I think it going to be hard to beat the raw power of excel. The other math programs out there currently for example look cleaner but they lack some of the power of excel.

The one nice excel that I love it you can brute force anything though excel and it will work for the solution you need. Something I wish other spread sheet programs fall short is when you try to brute force something though and it will not work. Also once you start learning about some of hte really cool and powerful tools of excel you relieze that it is really a great spreadsheet program. On top of that I think it is one of the best programs I have ever used that handle large amonts of data really easily. It going to be a truely program to beat.
 
Timelessblur said:
one of the best programs I have ever used that handle large amonts of data really easily

excel has its limitations, too. ever tried to have more than 65536 rows in an excel worksheet? not possible. that has driven me crazy many more times than that ;)
 
I had a friend who used excel on a daily business for a large retailing giant. Each day, he would get a 500MB excel file that he had to parse into something useable. He did this day in and day out. He really hated that job! :p

Excel is a very capable and powerful program, I have no doubt of this. I played with it several times, but its complexity scared me away. If Apple were to do something similiar, they could possibly make it so that any non-techie could use it.
 
JFreak said:
for many average joes the only reason for using excel would be keeping their finances in order. it is however a great deal better alternative for apple to release a simple-to-use iFinance (or whatever) for that goal, rather than making an excel killer that should fulfill so many more needs than that.

agree with that. in effect thats what apple have done with pages - rather than try to do everything that word does, they've thought "what does the average home user / hobbyist do with word?" and gone from there, selling it around the newsletter template angle. i think the combination of word processor and pagemaker type thing is a great way to go.

similarly, if they think "what does the average home user do with excel?" and work from there it could go in that sort of direction, ie adding in some stylish functionality relating to those sorts of things - eg finance.

and that is where iWorks competes with office - it offers home users a great suite aimed at what they use it for, not what the average collabarative office worker uses it for. so home users don't then have to shell out hundreds for loads of pro features that they don't need, and get a different set of tools that they'll be far more likely to use.

Iain
 
spelling checker?

Sorry if this seem stupid but I just (almost) new mac user. Are there any spelling checker in iWork? (anyway I alredy order it without consider this point).
 
k28 said:
Sorry if this seem stupid but I just (almost) new mac user. Are there any spelling checker in iWork? (anyway I alredy order it without consider this point).
Yes, Pages has a spellchecker (so has Keynote). I'd expect it will use Mac OS X's built-in spellchecker. Most Mac OS X apps make use of this (look at the Edit menu and go to Spelling.) You can even turn on the red dotted line underneath mispelt words, just like on MS Word.
 
Pages looks very fussable.

Looks exactly like what I was hoping for: basic wordprocessing, basic publishing, and the ability to throw in some charts and multimedia whathaveyou (that`s three strikes for you MSword).

It`s unfortunate that some Apple/Mac users and even Apple corporate execs can`t see the bigger picture for the minutia. Most computer users are not techies with hours spent on training experience (no offense to the techies out there, I envy your abilities), and most of the features in today`s software go unused by the general public. At the same time, for a high school teacher/ hobbyist writer like me, Appleworks just wasn`t compatible enough with MSword etc. I tried it on my friend`s PC.

With iWork I feel like shouting "Finally! Something I can use!"

I`m switching as soon as Tiger comes out. ibook 12", here I come! :D
 
guylafleur said:
Looks exactly like what I was hoping for: basic wordprocessing, basic publishing, and the ability to throw in some charts and multimedia whathaveyou (that`s three strikes for you MSword).

It`s unfortunate that some Apple/Mac users and even Apple corporate execs can`t see the bigger picture for the minutia. Most computer users are not techies with hours spent on training experience (no offense to the techies out there, I envy your abilities), and most of the features in today`s software go unused by the general public. At the same time, for a high school teacher/ hobbyist writer like me, Appleworks just wasn`t compatible enough with MSword etc. I tried it on my friend`s PC.

With iWork I feel like shouting "Finally! Something I can use!"

I`m switching as soon as Tiger comes out. ibook 12", here I come! :D
Like I said earlier, it'll be nice to use a package that actually makes use of all the great typography and lush graphics ability of Mac OS X. I'm sure I'll still use MS Word for long text-rich documents, but if the Excel chart compatibility is there (or they have the ability to use good 2-variable-axes plots) then I could see more of my writing work written using Pages. It's fair to say that PowerPoint won't get much of a look-in in future though for me.
 
guylafleur said:
Looks exactly like what I was hoping for: basic wordprocessing, basic publishing, and the ability to throw in some charts and multimedia whathaveyou (that`s three strikes for you MSword).

It`s unfortunate that some Apple/Mac users and even Apple corporate execs can`t see the bigger picture for the minutia. Most computer users are not techies with hours spent on training experience (no offense to the techies out there, I envy your abilities), and most of the features in today`s software go unused by the general public. At the same time, for a high school teacher/ hobbyist writer like me, Appleworks just wasn`t compatible enough with MSword etc. I tried it on my friend`s PC.

With iWork I feel like shouting "Finally! Something I can use!"

I`m switching as soon as Tiger comes out. ibook 12", here I come! :D


I think you are among the target group that apple was going after. People who dont need nor do they they know a lot of stuff about office. It for the people that needed a good word processing program that complays fulling with mordern standards. Applework as you pointed out failed with it came to that since the mordern standard that is was set is MSword doc formate because if it not fully capitble with MSword I going ot conisider it a non mordern program and more or less useless. Now if iWorks gets in a weak spread sheet program osX will have a work suit for under a 100 and iWorks will be like it PC equivlent program MSwork.

I like the keynott software in it. Now hopefully that program is fully complianted with modarn standards as well (Powerpoint) and will not have some of the bugs that Appleworks has with complaying with the industery standarnd.
 
JFreak said:
there's already pro-logic support as it only takes a stereo channel to deliver it. the problem is just this: how will you be making the surround sound in the first place? you will need a multichannel pro audio app for that, and then you will have to have a professional dolby-licensed encoder for bouncing that surround mix into a stereo channel. apple will not be able to give that away for free, or for $79, as the surround encoder alone costs hundreds.

but if you really want to, you can get your soundtrack professionally made in a pro studio, and then insert that stereo soundtrack (that contains pro logic surround sound) into your home movie via imovie/idvd. it will work, however it doesn't come cheap.

How is Pinnacle doing surround in their $99 Studio DV?

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage_n.asp?Product_ID=1501&Langue_ID=7
 
Timelessblur said:
I think it going to be hard to beat the raw power of excel. The other math programs out there currently for example look cleaner but they lack some of the power of excel.

The one nice excel that I love it you can brute force anything though excel and it will work for the solution you need. Something I wish other spread sheet programs fall short is when you try to brute force something though and it will not work. Also once you start learning about some of hte really cool and powerful tools of excel you relieze that it is really a great spreadsheet program. On top of that I think it is one of the best programs I have ever used that handle large amonts of data really easily. It going to be a truely program to beat.

I agree for the most part. Excel is the top dog spreadsheet app and would be very hard to improve upon. All Apple could do is offer the same features and compatibility at a lower price.

This is what makes me wonder if Apple will do something different if/when they add a spreadsheet app. I'm wondering if the world is ready for another Lotus Improv--any NeXT people remember it?

Improv was Lotus' attempt to create a next-generation spreadsheet app that would sell but at the same time would not canabalize Lotus 1-2-3's sales. Steve saw it and had to have it for his new machine, the NeXT. He lobbied and lobbied with Lotus and got it.

Improv included a "page-by" axis in addition to the traditional rows & columns. This was really revolutionary--it is basically Excel's PivotTables or similar to OLAP/multi-dimensional analysis. It was probably before its time.

Improv also allowed (or required) you to name your cells--so instead of having cell A1 you would name that cell "Rent". Then A2 would be named "Utilities". Then your formulas would no longer be A3=A1+A2, it would be "Expenses=Rent+Utilities". This made your complex models self documenting so that the next person could easily pick it up.

Improv was pretty much a flop but that could be due to the fact that it shipped on NeXT and OS/2, I bellieve. I don't know if they made a Windows version.

Would you all prefer something revolutionary like this or just a straight-forward spreadsheet app with a bunch of Apple-designed templates?
 
sigamy said:
How is Pinnacle doing surround in their $99 Studio DV?

i fail to see anything that mentions encoding in dolby digital/prologic, so that must mean they are not doing surround but are instead modifying the stereo field in hope of emulating surround sound. in perfect conditions, it may "feel like" surround sound, but it's not, a wild guess would be that the system delivers 2.0 sound (stereo).

surround is achieved by multi-channel mixes which can be delivered natively (5.1 dolby digital or a 4.0 PCM stream for example) or via encode/decode process (analog 2.0 dolby prologic for example, or 7.1 sound that has two extra channels encoded into a 5.1 signal) - but other than that, it's not surround; you can however nowadays manipulate stereo signal in such a way it almost feels like it.

does someone actually KNOW about pinnacle? if they offer dolby technologies for that price, they must have gotten a killer deal licensing it, as the encoders really cost something ;)
 
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