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iLife Updates (iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, New App)
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Something's wrong in wonderland?
I bought my powermac less than two years ago. If you count the operating system that came with it, I have bought a total of three OS X versions, which makes it more than one per year. Microsoft has never done this. Ever.
I also bought Quicktime Pro, just to find out two months later that my new OS version didn't allow for it to run, so - you guess right - ultimately had to shelve out money for a Quicktime update.
Now, when I bought Panther (in advance) I thought it would get a patch for iPhoto, but no way. I called the Apple help line and a friendly support staff said, I could look forward to getting the iApps when they got released. Yeah, right.
This does not jive with the notion of CORPORATE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY. As some of you may know, there is a big push in companies to safeguard their reputation (and stock value). Ethics and corporate responsibility have become key. However, this does not seem to be the case with Apple.
If you add how Apple treated Karelia (creator of Watson), cut off support for external CD/DVD burners, etc. you will understand that Apple is close to abusing a monopoly situation. I once studied a bit of competition law in Europe, and I would say that Apple with its current market share could be close to violating EU competition law. EU fines are in the percentage range of overall sales. I don't know how the Sherman act is applied in the US.
I would urge Apple to come clean with regard to what they sell with their computers. Let the customer know. It is not a question of whether iLife's price is too high or OK. It is about not being transparent. Also, stop the squeezing of other software and hardware suppliers.
If the rule of law and core ethics are not upheld, then things will certainly go wrong in wonderland.
I bought my powermac less than two years ago. If you count the operating system that came with it, I have bought a total of three OS X versions, which makes it more than one per year. Microsoft has never done this. Ever.
I also bought Quicktime Pro, just to find out two months later that my new OS version didn't allow for it to run, so - you guess right - ultimately had to shelve out money for a Quicktime update.
Now, when I bought Panther (in advance) I thought it would get a patch for iPhoto, but no way. I called the Apple help line and a friendly support staff said, I could look forward to getting the iApps when they got released. Yeah, right.
This does not jive with the notion of CORPORATE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY. As some of you may know, there is a big push in companies to safeguard their reputation (and stock value). Ethics and corporate responsibility have become key. However, this does not seem to be the case with Apple.
If you add how Apple treated Karelia (creator of Watson), cut off support for external CD/DVD burners, etc. you will understand that Apple is close to abusing a monopoly situation. I once studied a bit of competition law in Europe, and I would say that Apple with its current market share could be close to violating EU competition law. EU fines are in the percentage range of overall sales. I don't know how the Sherman act is applied in the US.
I would urge Apple to come clean with regard to what they sell with their computers. Let the customer know. It is not a question of whether iLife's price is too high or OK. It is about not being transparent. Also, stop the squeezing of other software and hardware suppliers.
If the rule of law and core ethics are not upheld, then things will certainly go wrong in wonderland.
toughboy
macrumors 6502a
I couldn't agree more... its limewire time..
and to the friend who talks about a decent mpeg2 prog for PC..
I am a PC user for more than 7-8 years, and I didnt pay for any PC product except the win95 I bought bundled with my first PC!!
But I paid for .mac and jaguar just because they seemed worthy.. but paying 50 USD (probably more in Europe) for just iPhoto (I wont even install the other ones) is not even close to worthiness...
its limewire time..
johnnyjibbs
macrumors 68030
Re: Something's wrong in wonderland?
Microsoft may never have done this, but what was the point of upgrading to Me or 2000 if you had Windows 98? Windows XP came out over 2 years ago. Since then, there has been one bug fix "sevice pack" and Windows users can look forward to service pack 2 this summer, 2 years after the previous one. Meanwhile, all the existing bugs and security problems still remain.
Personally I'm glad Apple chooses to update our OS and make improvements. Those who want to have them can buy them, otherwise you can stick with what you have. iPhoto, for example, is a great program as it is already.
(*BTW I use both Mac OS X Panther and Windows XP reguarly so I'm not unfairly dissing Microsoft)
You didn't have to buy any of the OS updates. OK, so you really need Jaguar, but the new iLife 04 suite works fine without the need for Panther.
Microsoft may never have done this, but what was the point of upgrading to Me or 2000 if you had Windows 98? Windows XP came out over 2 years ago. Since then, there has been one bug fix "sevice pack" and Windows users can look forward to service pack 2 this summer, 2 years after the previous one. Meanwhile, all the existing bugs and security problems still remain.
Personally I'm glad Apple chooses to update our OS and make improvements. Those who want to have them can buy them, otherwise you can stick with what you have. iPhoto, for example, is a great program as it is already.
(*BTW I use both Mac OS X Panther and Windows XP reguarly so I'm not unfairly dissing Microsoft)
I think it is just sad that people are going to steal a 50 dollar program. It is like people who hack through shareware, rather then supporting the developer who worte the application.
"I am a PC user for more than 7-8 years, and I didnt pay for any PC product except the win95 I bought bundled with my first PC!!"
Am I supposed to be proud of you for that?
Apple is charging for the software because it is new, it is improved, and they are paying people to make it work on older computers. Would you be happier if Apple made the software only work on new computers, but it was still free?
IE: only computers purchased after the keynote can run the software?
I really find it hard to believe that so much of the Mac community is angry at Apple for making them pay for new software. Especially since Apple has historically done this.
They freely upgrade application until a new version comes out. -- they fix the patches, offer minor enhancments, and adapt for new OS's. They charge when enough developemnt has been done to warrent a new version. 7.5 (pay), 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3, 7.5.5 (all free), 7.6 - pay. Etc.
And it's not like your old ones will stop working when the new ones are released.
I remember when Mac users would buy almost anything apple made to help with the bottom line.
And it is not deceptive if Apple touts a technology as part of an operating system - if it was true when they released it. they are alloud to change their business plan. If they MADE people pay to continue to use their Apps, then they would have a problem.
if you think it is toooooo much, quit yer whining and don't buy them, use what you already have. If you think 50 is toooooooo much for a single application (iPhoto) then go buy another photo application and do not complain when it does not work like iPhoto.
sheesh
Dave
"I am a PC user for more than 7-8 years, and I didnt pay for any PC product except the win95 I bought bundled with my first PC!!"
Am I supposed to be proud of you for that?
Apple is charging for the software because it is new, it is improved, and they are paying people to make it work on older computers. Would you be happier if Apple made the software only work on new computers, but it was still free?
IE: only computers purchased after the keynote can run the software?
I really find it hard to believe that so much of the Mac community is angry at Apple for making them pay for new software. Especially since Apple has historically done this.
They freely upgrade application until a new version comes out. -- they fix the patches, offer minor enhancments, and adapt for new OS's. They charge when enough developemnt has been done to warrent a new version. 7.5 (pay), 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3, 7.5.5 (all free), 7.6 - pay. Etc.
And it's not like your old ones will stop working when the new ones are released.
I remember when Mac users would buy almost anything apple made to help with the bottom line.
And it is not deceptive if Apple touts a technology as part of an operating system - if it was true when they released it. they are alloud to change their business plan. If they MADE people pay to continue to use their Apps, then they would have a problem.
if you think it is toooooo much, quit yer whining and don't buy them, use what you already have. If you think 50 is toooooooo much for a single application (iPhoto) then go buy another photo application and do not complain when it does not work like iPhoto.
sheesh
Dave
agree completely. What is 50 bucks anyway? It is hardly enough to cover the packaging, distribution and something for the retailer... Actually i don't think Apple is bothering too much if people run around copying either. I wonder if they are not just covering their ass with this - might be that they want the whole suite to be upgraded at any given time to ensure integration is intact; i.e. if you upgrade only one app you might experience trouble somehow... (I know they'd get their asses blown if that would happen... 🙂
Anyway - if they stay with the usual strategy everything will even be included in next major OS (or maybe if one buys Panther after jan16?) - so people could just wait for that and get it all then...
Interesting... I'm building an order for a 1.8G dualie at CDW and the included software no longer lists itunes, iphoto, or imovie. The account exec checked several other mac products and they aren't there either--it looks like they may not be included on new CPUs anymore?? 😕
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
Actually, Apple has released a definitive statement that iTunes will be the only freely downloadable iApp now.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/06ilife.html
iLife '04 is supposed to be included with new purchases. I'd make sure of that before buying from CDW.
Sounds like a reason to hold off on pushing the "approve transaction" button for at least several days if not until the end of the month. Or not... 😱
~Shard~
macrumors P6
You're going on the Net to download a $50 package - a package you don't even think is worth $50. Wow, that's pathetic. So instead of supporting Apple you want to support warez? Sounds like a devoted Apple user to me. 🙄
And you never bought software for your PC? I don't understand, is this supposed to make you cool? Are you proud of this? "Wow, look at me, I can steal! Give me an award!" 🙄
That is really sad and pathetic. By doing this you are stating that all of Apple's development time, all the improvements, the addition of a completely new app, and everything else with the new iLife suite isn't worth s#$t to you. Some people have no concept of quality, no concept of a company's time and effort and costs, and want everything for free. Simply pathetic.
iJon
macrumors 604
iphoto doesnt seem worthy? if its not worthy why are you doing out of your way posting on how ripped off you feel and you have to go out of your way to steal it. if its not pay worthy then why dont you use the free photo app that is a 70 dollar value that came with .mac?
iJon
Re: Something's wrong in wonderland?
1) Until now iPhoto has been free. Why would you need a patch to make it work with Panther when the current version is included with the Panther CD?
2) Watson is still used and developed. I can just about guarantee that Apple was working on Sherlock 3 before Watson was released. They might look similar, but the underlying technology and functionality are different.
3) How is only supporting built in SuperDrives abusing monopoly position? If anything it's exactly the opposite. If iDVD supported external 3rd party burners how would other developers convince hardware manufacturers to bundle their software? If Apple didn't have iDVD then people would complain that you had to buy 3rd party software to use the drives. As it is people already complain that the built in CD burning functionality of the finder is not good enough. If it was better then Roxio and others would not have a chance.
4) One one hand you complain that Apple is charging for iApps. On the other you are saying that they are abusing their monopoly buy giving away software that harms other developers. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
Jason
1) Until now iPhoto has been free. Why would you need a patch to make it work with Panther when the current version is included with the Panther CD?
2) Watson is still used and developed. I can just about guarantee that Apple was working on Sherlock 3 before Watson was released. They might look similar, but the underlying technology and functionality are different.
3) How is only supporting built in SuperDrives abusing monopoly position? If anything it's exactly the opposite. If iDVD supported external 3rd party burners how would other developers convince hardware manufacturers to bundle their software? If Apple didn't have iDVD then people would complain that you had to buy 3rd party software to use the drives. As it is people already complain that the built in CD burning functionality of the finder is not good enough. If it was better then Roxio and others would not have a chance.
4) One one hand you complain that Apple is charging for iApps. On the other you are saying that they are abusing their monopoly buy giving away software that harms other developers. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
Jason
No, not exactly, Apple said iTunes is currently available for download, it DOES NOT say anything other than that.
49$ too much ? Move out of your mum´s house and get a life !
And I am serious about it.
Good software, (excellent software as iLife´04), should be paid for.
i don´t know how many people are working on iLife, but with high sales, that amount of coders won´t dwindle and fade.
Apple is doing two important things here :
1. providing excellent software to us.
2. investors like companies that makes money.
If you feel insulted by Apple, if you feel Apple has lied to you . . . .
maybe you should change hardware/software platform. maybe step over to the linux platform. I hear there is a lot of nice and user-friendly applications there. lots of 0.7 0.8 and 0.9 versions.
I wonder why they are free........
And to all you hotliners out there. move out of your mom´s house, maybe you will respect those who are spending a lot of time, money and effort into making a living as a programmer.
And I am serious about it.
Good software, (excellent software as iLife´04), should be paid for.
i don´t know how many people are working on iLife, but with high sales, that amount of coders won´t dwindle and fade.
Apple is doing two important things here :
1. providing excellent software to us.
2. investors like companies that makes money.
If you feel insulted by Apple, if you feel Apple has lied to you . . . .
maybe you should change hardware/software platform. maybe step over to the linux platform. I hear there is a lot of nice and user-friendly applications there. lots of 0.7 0.8 and 0.9 versions.
I wonder why they are free........
And to all you hotliners out there. move out of your mom´s house, maybe you will respect those who are spending a lot of time, money and effort into making a living as a programmer.
Re: 49$ too much ? Move out of your mum´s house and get a life !
And 3. the perceived cost of owning a Mac has gone up a little.
(I guess that's the same as your #2.)
The fact is, if Apple is making more money, then owning a Mac is costing more. It doesn't matter if we agree that the extra cost is justified or not.
If something costs more, fewer people will buy it (maybe not significantly though). So they have to decide if the increased profit offsets the lower sales.
The GOOD thing for Apple about this move is that it doesn't affect new buyers, it only affects people who have already bought - and as such won't directly affect sales of new hardware.
Yes.
And 3. the perceived cost of owning a Mac has gone up a little.
(I guess that's the same as your #2.)
The fact is, if Apple is making more money, then owning a Mac is costing more. It doesn't matter if we agree that the extra cost is justified or not.
If something costs more, fewer people will buy it (maybe not significantly though). So they have to decide if the increased profit offsets the lower sales.
The GOOD thing for Apple about this move is that it doesn't affect new buyers, it only affects people who have already bought - and as such won't directly affect sales of new hardware.
AOL does it all the time - they give away the disk, packaging, everything. Those disks usually give you 1 month free. Then you start paying. This style of marketing made them the number one dial up service.
But basically you are saying that had Apple simply given us limited versions of iLife (demos) and then charged it would be OK and good marketing? But because they had the audacity to give us full versions and then charge it is not marketing and it is bad? If that is the case, just tell yourself that iLife up to this point has been a demo (a very full featured demo) and now they are charging for the upgraded actual product.
Also, from what I can tell, Apple's big mistake was only announcing the bundled version for $50 instead of also pricing the individual pieces at $29.95. Of course if they had done that, everyone would have bought the bundled version and said what a deal it was...I think Apple's marketing department slipped a little here!
iLife'04 shipping!
Mine shipped this morning. I ordered with ground shipping but got upgraded to 2nd day FedEx for free. That's the good thing when you preorder from Apple! 😀
Mine shipped this morning. I ordered with ground shipping but got upgraded to 2nd day FedEx for free. That's the good thing when you preorder from Apple! 😀
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
iPhoto troubles
Concerning Limewire, etc.
I got my hands on the 4C4 build version or iPhoto 4 and it appears to need OpenGL (if not Quartz Extreme) to run a slideshow at all. It screwed up my iPhoto 2.0 library while updating. Luckily, I backed up everything within the past month.
I tested it on both my beige box at home (with original video card)- no slides, and on my G4 450 at work. Slides worked when the original video card played the slides, but not when the XClaim3D plus did.
I hope the final release addresses this or there will be a bunch of ticked off people (again) out there... - j
Concerning Limewire, etc.
I got my hands on the 4C4 build version or iPhoto 4 and it appears to need OpenGL (if not Quartz Extreme) to run a slideshow at all. It screwed up my iPhoto 2.0 library while updating. Luckily, I backed up everything within the past month.
I tested it on both my beige box at home (with original video card)- no slides, and on my G4 450 at work. Slides worked when the original video card played the slides, but not when the XClaim3D plus did.
I hope the final release addresses this or there will be a bunch of ticked off people (again) out there... - j
johnnyjibbs
macrumors 68030
I wouldn't expect the cube transition and other such 'Keynote-inspired' transitions to work without Quartz Extreme. It's a bit lame if you can't even view a slideshow at all though...