iLife Updates (iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, New App)

[blybug]

I woudn't count on downloads becoming available on the 16th or otherwise. I remember well that just before iLife was first released as a bundle, the rumor boards were full of these exact discussions because it had slipped that Apple was going to charge $xx for the package as a bundle, with no more free downloads.

At the time of the iLife presentation last year Steve gave the $49 price then quickly said that the new versions of iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie would still be available for free download, which they were a short time later (I think the same day the iLife discs were released, which many may remember was also delayed past the promised original release date because of problems with iMovie). It came out again on the boards several days later that continuing the downloads was not the original plan, and was a last minute decision (like maybe even the morning of the Stevenote) in response to a flood of complaints that Apple had received.

I think we've already gotten a bonus free year. This decision was supposed to have gone into effect with iLife v1. I believe that if they were going to continue with the downloads, Steve would have mentioned it in the keynote (like he did last year). The fact that he didn't say it I think means it isn't going to happen. They already knew people were going to be unhappy and are probably geared up for all the complaints again...but I doubt very much they will give in this time.

 

[1macker1]

my .02

I just have one question. If they say iDVD is too large to put up as a free download, so that's why they charge for it, and put it on the iLife disk. How do they plan on selling software through software update, which they said they will start doing. Sounds kind of fishy to me.

 

[iMan]

Re: my .02

Originally posted by 1macker1
I just have one question. If they say iDVD is too large to put up as a free download, so that's why they charge for it, and put it on the iLife disk. How do they plan on selling software through software update, which they said they will start doing. Sounds kind of fishy to me.

1. new technology might make it possible to easily download large amounts of data on near future.

2. if you charge for it, you won't have the same massive traffic on your servers as if it were free

3. if they start selling software through software update it does not mean they have to sell everything through there - and an update does not necessarily mean donwloading the whole app; xtras and all.

++

Also, make a note that this is also still a rumour - the same kind that spawned the $100 iPod 😉

 

[JBracy]

Re: my .02

Originally posted by 1macker1
I just have one question. If they say iDVD is too large to put up as a free download, so that's why they charge for it, and put it on the iLife disk. How do they plan on selling software through software update, which they said they will start doing. Sounds kind of fishy to me.

Apple have actually never said that they would do this. Rumors are not news. True there is evidence that it will happen https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031220204205.shtml but it has not been confirmed or announced by Apple. There's also the possibility that they will only offer for download items up to a certain size. I have a 3MB Cable connection and downloading GB's of data still takes a VERY LONG time.

 

[1macker1]

If it's free, people would be willing to endure the long download times, i'm pretty sure of that. As far apple selling sw via sw update, yeah it's only a rumor, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[iMan]

Originally posted by 1macker1
If it's free, people would be willing to endure the long download times, i'm pretty sure of that.

well, imagine the donwload time from a server trying to cope with 1 mill users getting 4.3 GB of free data each... I think you'd save time and money buying the $49 pack if you're on a 56k modem line 😀

 

[JJTiger1]

iDVD and 56k dialup

Originally posted by iMan
well, imagine the donwload time from a server trying to cope with 1 mill users getting 4.3 GB of free data each... I think you'd save time and money buying the $49 pack if you're on a 56k modem line 😀

I bought the first iLife for just that reason.

iDVD came on a DVD in that version of iLife, and I could not install it on my non-DVD G4.

Somehow (maybe original OS 10.1 installer/restore CD's) my G4 has iDVD 2.1 in the Panther Applications folder, but it won't launch because I don't have a DVD burner.

I'm hoping that the new iLife includes iDVD installer on CD, not on DVD.

How else could I install the newest iDVD?

How else can I build an iDVD on my non-DVD machine, to transfer the file to a DVD machine?

If the newest iDVD installer is on DVD discs: NO SALE.

We shall see next week Friday, won't we?
=-=
JJ

 

[1macker1]

Surely a company that just annoucned new servers wouldn't have a problem with that 🙂

Originally posted by iMan
well, imagine the donwload time from a server trying to cope with 1 mill users getting 4.3 GB of free data each... I think you'd save time and money buying the $49 pack if you're on a 56k modem line 😀

 

[iMan]

Re: iDVD and 56k dialup

Originally posted by JJTiger1
iDVD came on a DVD in that version of iLife, and I could not install it on my non-DVD G4.

I think the market for a DVD app for non DVD machines would be rather slim - eventhough I see your point of transferring the project - so I would not count on Apple making a priority of this over the ease of using a DVD disc for the amount of data. The whole cabooz requires 4.3 GB on your harddrive and specifically says DVD is required for iDVD and GB.

 

[iMan]

Originally posted by 1macker1
Surely a company that just annoucned new servers wouldn't have a problem with that 🙂

I would bet the bandwith into the server had something to do with this also... what if Apple invented instant superfast fiberoptic internet 😉

 

[GregA]

Re: Ok, But now what...

Originally posted by flyfish29
Apple charges so much for two reasons. They make quality stuff ... and they provide lots of extras on their comptuers as far as software. Yes, I know Apple is being forced to charge for upgrades to some of their software titles but think about the fact that all those people for the last three years of isoftware development that were working on these products were giving it away for free.

There's a bit of a contradiction there (I think it's half the reason everyone is disagreeing here.

So... you're saying
1. Apple charges more because they provide free extras, and
2. they can't afford to make nothing on the extras.
Well, they were not making nothing if they charged more for them.

On another note:
I don't care about $49us. But it is quite different to consider $49 per year though (+ $129 per year for OSX). It's almost a sneaky subscription model (with the exception that you can keep using the original version of software if you want).

I know I said it before, but I think Apple is playing with a new way of making money. I'm all for it if Apple is shuffling where it makes money (eg. small profit on the hardware big profit on software?), but it would be a shame to make Mac's even more of a premium product - when the iApps were once what made the Mac worth the extra $$ (for some people).

 

[1macker1]

[rant] What the heck happened to the updated Appleworks? and why does apple's site say "it's like Microsoft office for the rest of us" and it has a pic of the new 04 iLife. WTF do movies, dvds, and music have to do with word processing and spreadsheets? Damn apple really dropped the ball this time. [/rant]

 

[Dahl]

Originally posted by 1macker1
[rant] What the heck happened to the updated Appleworks? [/rant]

I hear ya!
I might need Word soon, but I don't really want to buy it, if I can get Apple Works instead. But I don't want to buy Apple Works, when it looks like they are dropping the app.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

If I were you, I'd just get AppleWorks or Office, or one of the alternatives (e.g. openoffice or thinkfree office) because I don't think Apple is going to come out with one.

It seems as though Apple is backing Microsoft Office fully. The reference to iLife being "the Microsoft Office for the rest of your life" has a double meaning. It is saying that MS Office takes care of your work-related life, while iLife takes care of the rest of your life (i.e. fun), as someone else stated earlier. It is also a subtle retreat by Apple - a reference to shut up all the rumours about an Apple competitor to MS Office.

Apple has spoken: they are backing MS Office, not wanting to compete with it.

Unfortunately, the statement on Apple's front page can be (and already has been) misinterpreted as iLife being updated for the rest of your life (as in time), sort of like Office is! Hope that makes sense?!

 

[autrefois]

I agree with the rest of your post, but will just comment on this part.

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Unfortunately, the statement on Apple's front page can be (and already has been) misinterpreted as iLife being updated for the rest of your life (as in time), sort of like Office is! Hope that makes sense?!

That's hilarious!! 😀 It took me a second to see what you meant, but yeah if you dislike Office (like I do!) then it sounds like buying iLife would be torture!!

It's like (being stuck with) Microsoft Office for the rest of your life

 

[johnnyjibbs]

You have to love Office really.. 😀 😉

 

[ipoddin]

Originally posted by blybug
Imagine for just a moment that the iLife package and all the previously individual components never existed, for free or for pay. Now just think if at yesterday's keynote after the Microsoft Office demo Steve welcomed a developer from Adobe or some other company up on stage who went through a demo of a new never-before-seen software package they were releasing that:

(1) Allows you to purchase, rip, organize and play all your music on your computer, transfer to your portable player, and stream across your network
(2) Imports your digital photos from virtually any camera, organize and edit your pictures, share them on your network or on the web, order prints and other merchandise
(3) Imports digital video, edit it, and fabulous effects and titles, export to a multitude of formats, video tape, or DVD
(4) Create and burn professional looking DVDs of all your video footage
(5) Create your own music with a combination of dozens of electronic instruments, professional loops, and live recording

Furthermore, all of these applications interact with each other, allowing one-click integration and transfer of media and creations from one component to the other. And it will only be available for the Macintosh platform.

Price: $49

The crowd would have gone wild. And who here would not want to buy this package, whether they would necessarily use all the features or not? This scenario is really no different than reality except for one small difference...this package does already exist and you do already have it on your computer. Now you are simply being asked to pay $49 to have the latest version (which, by the way, many of us have paid several times already just to have iDVD updates).

Don't like the price? Stick with the versions you have. They still work, maybe not as smoothly as you'd like or with all the fancy new bells and whistles, but hey, it was free, right? Think of it like many shareware programs...there's a "lite" version that is often free or discounted, and a full-featured version that you have to shell out some cash for.

Having said all that, I'd still like to see Apple offer at least a discount (and maybe even free downloads of iPhoto and iMovie) to .mac members. That would give more perceived value to .mac, which also has been debated into the ground on this forum, and allow Apple to show some goodwill towards its most loyal supporters.

For the record, I've already ordered my iLife '04. I already use the 4 core apps regularly, and look forward to (finally) being able to use iPhoto the way it was meant to be used. Might play around a little with GarageBand, but honestly don't quite understand why this is being bundled with iLife.

Except when that company released v2.0 next year, they wouldn't charge full price to those who bought v1.0 this year. I hear ya on the .Mac discount as well. Nothing new for .Mac at the keynote either...

Apple is like a drug dealer. "Here ya go, first one's free. Like it, eh? Now you gotta pay!" They get you hooked in to using their free software so you can't imagine life without it..and then drop the freebie like a bomb. And of course, I'm addicted and will pay for my next high with iLife 04.

 

[~Shard~]

Originally posted by ipoddin

Apple is like a drug dealer. "Here ya go, first one's free. Like it, eh? Now you gotta pay!" They get you hooked in to using their free software so you can't imagine life without it..and then drop the freebie like a bomb. And of course, I'm addicted and will pay for my next high with iLife 04.

Number one, this is Marketing - get used to it. Number two, it's 49 freakin' bucks. Too rich for your blood? Work an extra few hours at your job.

 

[iMan]

Originally posted by ipoddin
Apple is like a drug dealer. "Here ya go, first one's free. Like it, eh? Now you gotta pay!"

he heh... if Apple actually got you that addicted I guess they did something really good with the stuff they fed you 😉

 

[ipoddin]

Originally posted by ~Shard~
Number one, this is Marketing - get used to it. Number two, it's 49 freakin' bucks. Too rich for your blood? Work an extra few hours at your job.

It's not really marketing. Which companies offer free versions of their software only to then charge you for it down the line? Most offer demo's first, and then charge you for it - that is marketing.

And if you read my post again, you'd see I already PLAN to buy it. My beef is the fact that those of us who spent $49 last year for iLife have to pay $49 for upgrades when most software companies offer discount for previous owners.

 

[flyfish29]

Originally posted by idkew
no one is "bitching" that they have to pay for iDVD or Garageband. People are "bitching" because they have to pay for programs they will never use. If Apple wants to charge $50 for 5 programs, where is this different than charging $40 for 4, $30 for 3, $20 for 2 and $10 for 1?

I see no difference, except that Apple wants the $50, knowing that a LARGE majority of Mac users do not have the ability or desire to use all 5 components. You say we are cheap, I say Apple is being greedy by forcing us to buy software we do not use nor want.

you show me a real software company that charges $10 for a program? this method of marketing the programs is beneficial to most as it makes the programs all $50. If Apple charged $25 per program (which they would have to do if they were sold separately) there would be many people paying $100 for all five programs which would suck. If you only used two programs you would probalby have to pay at least $40 if they bundled them separately...so just shell out the $50, help Apple succeed, and keep this train rolling!.

Another thing to remember, Music Store has not been set up to make much of a profit, iTunes is still FREE to everyone that wants it, so the only real way they make much money off the whole music thing is to sell iPods and hopefully Macs to go with, but with iTunes for PC that makes it more difficult. Hopefully Music Store will be profitable soon with so many aol, PC, and companies buying music.

 

[flyfish29]

Originally posted by idkew
😕
They did it once with .Mac, just did it with iLife, what's next? iTunes updates costr for iPod'ers? Safari paid updates? 10.3.x paid updates? 😕

As I stated before, the forced bundle is a way for Apple to make more revnue by not allowing consumers to purchse what is needed and necessary. Apple likes to dictate what we do and how we do it. Here is one more way for them to do that.
.

This forced bundle allows everyone to pay a relatively low price for up to five appications. Bundling alows no one to pay more than 50...where most that used just two apps would pay more than 50 total.

When the online .Mac deal started and was free it didin't provide many benefits and really didn't work all that terrific. Give Apple credit to make it right, but of course it took money and many hours of work to make it right...so they had to charge. This software boom is what is KEEPING APPLE AFLOAT. WERE IT NOT FOR ITUNES, MUSIC STORE, IDVD, IPHOTO, ETC. APPLE WHOULD BE IN THE $#$%$ HOLE IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

 

[syclone]

you know, considering how piss slow iPhoto is on my new computer, I think the price of entry is worth it just for that. I also hate downloading things and would love to have all the software on one nice DVD since never back up. (my 2 month old PB G4 15" totally died for no reason, yay! At least they'll fix those damn white spots along with it) I would probably pay $50 for GarageBand too.

Here's the thing. I really like what Apple is doing here from a business standpoint. They're giving me a bunch of programs, that I have already tried (except GarageBand) and know to be great software that could use a few tweaks, so I'm more willing to pay to purchase it, and think I'm getting a great deal, because I'd pay $50 for each one, and now I get all four (iTunes doesn't count its still free) I think its a good idea and a great way for Apple to make money. I just wish that if you already had OSX that it was only $70 for an upgrade. And hey, if you don't like it, then shut up and download them on BitTorrent. Its not like anyone is going to be putting out anything professional with any of these apps anyway.

 

[SlimPickens]

iPhoto: Panther "Feature"

One of the things that's really bugged me about the iPhoto deal is that it's been advertised as a feature within Panther. Now it looks like the mention of iPhoto as one of the "Top New Features" on the website has dissappeared...

Pretty sly... or I guess deceptive...

 

[~Shard~]

Originally posted by ipoddin
It's not really marketing. Which companies offer free versions of their software only to then charge you for it down the line? Most offer demo's first, and then charge you for it - that is marketing.

I wasn't referring specifically to products, but also services. In my workplace, I see it all the time. Certain features, services, etc. are initially offered to customers for free, and then upgrades/enhanced functionality end up costing more in the future. Also, many websites did this during the tech boom, are currently doing it, and planning on doing it in the future - offer free services, then charge for them later. I can think of mulitple examples of this, from e-cards, to e-mail, and on and on...

Originally posted by ipoddin
And if you read my post again, you'd see I already PLAN to buy it. My beef is the fact that those of us who spent $49 last year for iLife have to pay $49 for upgrades when most software companies offer discount for previous owners.

And I wasn't discounting that at all - I appreciate that, and agree that a discount in this situation would be appropriate - sorry for any confusion over that. 😎

P.S. Oh, and if you wanted another example, Apple did it with .Mac already as well - initially free, then make the users pay!