iPhone X I'm not getting a new iPhone until the notch is gone.

[booksbooks]

The case was made that a pop-up camera is objectively better than a flush, on the face camera.

I was offering obvious counter-arguments to that. Sure, some people may prefer the aesthetics of a pop-up camera, but that does not make it objectively superior. There are compromises to be made with a pop-up, those compromises are pretty clear, and the preference for one or the other is at least subjective, if not leaning towards the less risky option.

That's all.

I know this is personal for you, the whole notch thing (I've never seen someone so persistently and vociferously angry about an aesthetic feature), and therefore any comments that do not fully embrace the 'notch is evil' viewpoint are threatening or laughable (mine are apparently the latter). It doesn't need to be that way, though. You can see from the poll here, along with all the anecdotal evidence out there, that most people really don't care about the notch. If this is the hill you want to die on, that's fine, but these are the realities:

• A pop-up camera frees up space on the screen, it's true, a couple of ~1mm dots.
• A pop-up camera also introduces extra complexity and extra risk of failure (as discussed above).
• Apple could've done a pop-up camera. The reason they didn't is obviously not technical incompetence (suggesting otherwise is dishonest), it was a conscious decision.
  
• Most people honestly don't care.

I don't doubt some future version of the iPhone will be notch-less, or notch-modified, but when they do it won't be because Apple suddenly figured out how to make a lens move up and down, it will be when the product designers feel like a different setup makes sense given all the various pros/cons, risk assessment, etc.

I know this is personal for you, the whole popup camera thing.

Problems a popup camera solves that are generally created by a notch:

• Non edge-to-edge screen: it enables a complete and full edge-to-edge screen, maximizing the screen-to-body ratio. There has been a lawsuit against Apple for false advertising. The filing describes that the iPhone X has about 10% less screen area than advertised. This is due to the notch and the deadspace it creates.
• Asymmetrical screen: There is a defined top and bottom to the iPhone, and Apps are blocked from turning 180 degrees. When Jobs launched the iPhone, he pointed out there wasn't a wrong way to hold it. Now there is. There are also design and usability issues that arise from a notch. For instance, pinching and zooming a photo where the notch covers that part of the photo and the rest of the screen doesn't: the parts of the photo show within the left and right portion of the screen but otherwise covered by the notch. Or a fullscreen game that's full bleed: the notch covers content like a wart. Or tapping to go fullscreen on a video... the notch covers a section of the video. These kinds of things are glaring and absurd consequences of an asymmetrical screen. It's equally absurd on a TV, or watch, or computer monitor.
• Usable screen area significantly reduced under certain activities, and not just on the notch side. Surfing the Web in landscape mode, for instance, causes both the left and right side of the phone to have significant bands of deadspace. If Apple didn't do this, then one side (the notch) would cover content while the other side didn't. To make matters worse, it's hard to see where the content stops since it's white deadspace, rather than some border that shows the edges of the webpage (e.g., on a properly designed phone where the page hits the uniform and flush bezels/edges of the screen).
• Scratched camera and sensors: a popup camera protects sensors and cameras on the front by hiding these things. Daily use can grind exposed sensors and cameras under glass on the front of a device where the glass can be scratched. The notch on the iPhone houses all of the sensors and front-facing camera under glass that can be scratched and may, in certain circumstances, affect the fitness of these things.
• Spying: a popup camera securely hides the front facing camera when you're not using it, thereby protecting you from spyware.

Now, to your other comments. You erect strawmen for starters. Also, you cannot claim to know what most people think/want so you can't say most people honestly don't care. Additionally, you simply cannot claim that Apple could have done a popup camera but chose not to. You have no idea, unless you worked at Apple close to that project or you know someone who told you this. Also, Apple spent years working on the iPhone X. From what I've read, from the people I've spoken to, etc., there isn't sufficient evidence Apple considered a popup camera. I'm also unaware of any patent for a popup camera that has Apple's name on it: this typically happens when they're at least considering something.

Apple may consider a popup camera for a near future iPhone. We'll find out in time.

 

[44267547]

This thread is completely exhausted.

All that matters now, is we (The consumer) can’t change Apple’s perspective on the notch, it’s here and will be at least I gather for two more years. If you really want to prove your point to Apple, the only way to do it is _not_ support the iPhone by purchasing it. You can gripe, you can send Apple emails, but it doesn’t change what the iPhone is today with the notch and what it will be for the future. Either way, we know Face ID will be a massive part of the iPhone’s security base, it’s a design aesthetic that they believe in, you (Or others) don’t have to agree with it, but come to the realization that you can’t change it either.

 

[Ralfi]

I knew from 2016 that the X was going to be the best iPhone re-design they’ve done. & since ownership, it’s proven to be that, so people not upgrading because of that design is shocking to me.

This thread is completely exhausted.

It’s one of the most pointless threads here. People need to get over it.

A haven for the ultra stubborn to vent online...

 

[booksbooks]

This thread is completely exhausted.

All that matters now, is we (The consumer) can’t change Apple’s perspective on the notch, it’s here and will be at least I gather for two more years. If you really want to prove your point to Apple, the only way to do it is _not_ support the iPhone by purchasing it. You can gripe, you can send an Apple emails, but it doesn’t change what the iPhone is today with the notch and what it will be for the future. Either way, we know Face ID will be a massive part of the iPhone’s security base, it’s a design aesthetic that they believe in, you (Or others) don’t have to agree with it, but come to the realization that you can’t change it either.

What is the point of this post. Why post prescriptive things that are themselves “exhausted”. The tired “vote with your wallet and don’t buy it”. You don’t need to tell me what to do or state the obvious. The thread is about an Apple product. It’s an open Web and forum. It’s not exhausted.

 

[Lee_Bo]

So you don't want a smartphone with a notch? I'm sure there are still some flip phones out there.

 

[booksbooks]

So you don't want a smartphone with a notch? I'm sure there are still some flip phones out there.

So you want a phone with a notch? I’m sure there are still options, like an iPhone X series.

 

[Lee_Bo]

So you want a phone with a notch? I’m sure there are still options, like an iPhone X series.

Actually I'm still rocking the 7+. Not because I don't want a phone with a notch, but because the 7+ still works great. Plus I'm waiting to see what launches in the fall.

 

[I7guy]

What is the point of this post. Why post prescriptive things that are themselves “exhausted”. The tired “vote with your wallet and don’t buy it”. You don’t need to tell me what to do or state the obvious. The thread is about an Apple product. It’s an open Web and forum. It’s not exhausted.

At some point the mods may see fit to close a thread, in which the topic has been beaten to death and is going round in circles.

Problems a popup camera solves that are generally created by a notch:

• Non edge-to-edge screen: it enables a complete and full edge-to-edge screen, maximizing the screen-to-body ratio. There has been a lawsuit against Apple for false advertising. The filing describes that the iPhone X has about 10% less screen area than advertised. This is due to the notch and the deadspace it creates.
• Asymmetrical screen: There is a defined top and bottom to the iPhone, and Apps are blocked from turning 180 degrees. When Jobs launched the iPhone, he pointed out there wasn't a wrong way to hold it. Now there is. There are also design and usability issues that arise from a notch. For instance, pinching and zooming a photo where the notch covers that part of the photo and the rest of the screen doesn't: the parts of the photo show within the left and right portion of the screen but otherwise covered by the notch. Or a fullscreen game that's full bleed: the notch covers content like a wart. Or tapping to go fullscreen on a video... the notch covers a section of the video. These kinds of things are glaring and absurd consequences of an asymmetrical screen. It's equally absurd on a TV, or watch, or computer monitor.
• Usable screen area significantly reduced under certain activities, and not just on the notch side. Surfing the Web in landscape mode, for instance, causes both the left and right side of the phone to have significant bands of deadspace. If Apple didn't do this, then one side (the notch) would cover content while the other side didn't. To make matters worse, it's hard to see where the content stops since it's white deadspace, rather than some border that shows the edges of the webpage (e.g., on a properly designed phone where the page hits the uniform and flush bezels/edges of the screen).
• Scratched camera and sensors: a popup camera protects sensors and cameras on the front by hiding these things. Daily use can grind exposed sensors and cameras under glass on the front of a device where the glass can be scratched. The notch on the iPhone houses all of the sensors and front-facing camera under glass that can be scratched and may, in certain circumstances, affect the fitness of these things.
• Spying: a popup camera securely hides the front facing camera when you're not using it, thereby protecting you from spyware.

Problems the notch solves that the pop-up creates:
- no moving parts that can get jammed/broken and have debris in the mechanism
- smaller form factor
- distinctive stylish, look
- able to covertly spy
- don't have to wait for pop up

plus this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...e-notch-is-gone.2178645/page-12#post-27386797

Plus the un-scientific poll shows an over-whelming majority support the notch.

 

[booksbooks]

At some point the mods may see fit to close a thread, in which the topic has been beaten to death and is going round in circles.


Problems the notch solves that the pop-up creates:
- no moving parts that can get jammed/broken and have debris in the mechanism
- smaller form factor
- distinctive stylish, look
- able to covertly spy
- don't have to wait for pop up

plus this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...e-notch-is-gone.2178645/page-12#post-27386797

Plus the un-scientific poll shows an over-whelming majority support the notch.

-Moving parts/debris: there is currently no evidence that there is an issue and evidence that there isn’t an issue. So this “problem” is not actually a problem.
-Smaller form factor. What’s a smaller form factor. How is the notch a smaller form factor.
-Distinctive stylish/look: this also isn’t a problem, but you’re own subjective opinion on the style. So not an objective problem.
-Able to covertly spy. How is this a problem created by the popup camera and also how does the notch solve the problem of covertly spying? This makes no sense. The problem is with the notch having the camera exposed 100%. The notch creates the problem, the popup camera solves it.
-Don’t have to wait for popup. How long are you waiting? Is FaceID on the OnePlus 7 Pro slower than on iPhone? Is video calling slower? Are selfies slower? You have no evidence of these things and this is therefore not an established, objective problem.

 

[kenvip88]

So you want a phone with a notch? I’m sure there are still options, like an iPhone X series.

People who buy a phone with a notch doesn't mean they want a phone with a notch
They can also hate the notch, but having the notch or not isn't their 1st priority to chose a phone to buy.

 

[booksbooks]

People who buy a phone with a notch doesn't mean they want a phone with a notch
They can also hate the notch, but having the notch or not isn't their 1st priority to chose a phone to buy.

You have no evidence to support the statement that the notch isn't a 1st priority when choosing a phone to buy. Neither do I.

 

[kenvip88]

You have no evidence to support the statement that the notch isn't a 1st priority when choosing a phone to buy. Neither do I.

I cleary see that you don’t understand what I mean.

 

[I7guy]

-Moving parts/debris: there is currently no evidence that there is an issue and evidence that there isn’t an issue. So this “problem” is not actually a problem.
-Smaller form factor. What’s a smaller form factor. How is the notch a smaller form factor.
-Distinctive stylish/look: this also isn’t a problem, but you’re own subjective opinion on the style. So not an objective problem.
-Able to covertly spy. How is this a problem created by the popup camera and also how does the notch solve the problem of covertly spying? This makes no sense. The problem is with the notch having the camera exposed 100%. The notch creates the problem, the popup camera solves it.
-Don’t have to wait for popup. How long are you waiting? Is FaceID on the OnePlus 7 Pro slower than on iPhone? Is video calling slower? Are selfies slower? You have no evidence of these things and this is therefore not an established, objective problem.

Well horses for courses as in YMMV. The one thing that seems overblown/hyperbolic though the instant always on Face ID is slower than than a pop up that has to well, pop up? Additionally the pop up is not Face ID quality.

But one additional item, my opinion is the pop up is an item waiting to be broken. Definitely an item that would lose a sale for me.

 

[booksbooks]

Well horses for courses as in YMMV. The one thing that seems overblown/hyperbolic though the instant always on Face ID is slower than than a pop up that has to well, pop up? Additionally the pop up is not Face ID quality.

But one additional item, my opinion is the pop up is an item waiting to be broken. Definitely an item that would lose a sale for me.

What does YMMV mean in relation to what we're talking about. What evidence do you have that a popup and FaceID is slower than on an iPhone. And your opinion: why is the popup an item waiting to be broken. I presume you've seen the drop tests, smash tests, water submersion tests, hanging 50 pounds of concrete from the popup... so why is your opinion what it is.

And when it comes to the iPhone, the entire back of my iPhone X is smashed in part, because it's made of glass. Not exactly durable...

 

[I7guy]

What does YMMV mean in relation to what we're talking about. What evidence do you have that a popup and FaceID is slower than on an iPhone. And your opinion: why is the popup an item waiting to be broken. I presume you've seen the drop tests, smash tests, water submersion tests, hanging 50 pounds of concrete from the popup... so why is your opinion what it is.

And when it comes to the iPhone, the entire back of my iPhone X is smashed in part, because it's made of glass. Not exactly durable...

I don't need evidence to discuss my opinion of what I would buy or not buy, is the point being missed. Whether it's factually true or not cannot be proven, but it's lost sale, for me. I don't have to look at drop tests, smash tests, water submersion videos as they are all anecdotal in nature.

As far as your X back being smashed, I use a case to mitigate that occurrence.

 

[booksbooks]

I don't need evidence to discuss my opinion of what I would buy or not buy, is the point being missed. Whether it's factually true or not cannot be proven, but it's lost sale, for me. I don't have to look at drop tests, smash tests, water submersion videos as they are all anecdotal in nature.

As far as your X back being smashed, I use a case to mitigate that occurrence.

First, the stress tests are absolutely not anecdotal. Second, you can have an opinion. But your opinion is based on assumptions that have little to no evidence to support them and in some cases there's evidence to the contrary. Even when faced with this, and faced with evidence to the contrary, you seem to continue to hold said opinions.

 

[I7guy]

First, the stress tests are absolutely not anecdotal. Second, you can have an opinion. But your opinion is based on assumptions that have little to no evidence to support them and in some cases there's evidence to the contrary. Even when faced with this, and faced with evidence to the contrary, you seem to continue to hold said opinions.

Relying on said test to determine the course of damage to your phone for some type of damage event is anecdotal.

But it seems to be your opinion = right while others are wrong.

 

[Jack Neill]

I was pretty anti notch and then I got a XS and I'm like meh, its not that big a deal

 

[eoblaed]

I know this is personal for you, the whole popup camera thing.

It's not, really. If Apple did a pop-up, ok. It's not going to stop me from getting the latest iPhone. I really don't care that much. I think it would look clunky, and there are certain aspects I wouldn't appreciate fully, but that's true of all tech decisions. All I'm saying is that railing against the notch and claiming the pop-up is objectively better simply isn't justified. Subjectively? Absolutely, depending on the individual. But that requires recognizing both sides have legitimate reasons for liking what they like. I can recognize why some people might like a pop-up design. However, some people cannot recognize why others might prefer an in-screen design, and try to convince those people they're 'wrong'. That's why it comes across as personal.

There is a defined top and bottom to the iPhone, and Apps are blocked from turning 180 degrees. When Jobs launched the iPhone, he pointed out there wasn't a wrong way to hold it. Now there is.

This is demonstrably untrue. The phone has always prevented users from operating it 'upside down'. You could hold it upright, rotate 90 degrees to the left or the right, but nothing was allowed to rotate 180 degrees. The reason? There are hardware components to the phone that enforce an orientation during certain situations ... namely, the ear piece and the microphone as used during a phone call. If the phone were allowed to rotate 180 degrees, and the phone were 'upside down' when the user received a phone call, they may not realize it and try to speak on the phone with the microphone and ear piece inverted. Oops.

Scratched camera and sensors: a popup camera protects sensors and cameras on the front by hiding these things. Daily use can grind exposed sensors and cameras under glass on the front of a device where the glass can be scratched. The notch on the iPhone houses all of the sensors and front-facing camera under glass that can be scratched and may, in certain circumstances, affect the fitness of these things.

This has yet to happen to me since iPhones have had front facing cameras, but it's a possibility, sure. This reminds me, though, of another problem with the pop-up camera/sensors: it would effectively eliminate FaceID.

Spying: a popup camera securely hides the front facing camera when you're not using it, thereby protecting you from spyware.

Now, to your other comments. You erect strawmen for starters.

I don't believe I do. Claims were made the pop-up is the always the superior choice for front facing sensors. I presented counter arguments to that suggesting there are pros and cons to all sensor location models, and that pop-up vs in-screen can be seen as a largely personal preference given the nature of those pros and cons. There were no straw men involved.

Also, you cannot claim to know what most people think/want so you can't say most people honestly don't care.

Your own poll, which is not scientific, granted, strongly suggests I'm not far off on my assertion. Forums like this have a tendency to highlight those that are unsatisfied as, human nature being what it is, people are far more prone to take the time to complain about something if they're upset; they're less likely to be motivated to post something when they're happy. Even in an environment that over represents those that are unhappy, almost 75% of respondents to this poll said they'll buy an iPhone with or without a notch. My guess if you conducted a real poll in a more neutral setting, the percentage would be even higher.

That, and the fact that I have literally never heard a single person complain about the notch despite the many X and XS Max users I know and work with, while again, anecdotal, lends support to my theory.

From what I've read, from the people I've spoken to, etc., there isn't sufficient evidence Apple considered a popup camera.

Protect those sources you have deep in Apple. Knowing what they've considered or not is pretty sensitive information.

For the record, I never said they did or did not consider a pop-up. I responded to the claim that the reason they didn't have a pop-up was because they were technically incompetent. That's ridiculous on its face, and any person that looks that claim rationally knows so.

To provide additional clarity: Apple chose the notch not because they had other ideas but didn't know how to implement them (as the 'technical incompetence' claim would suggest), but because they considered all options and chose the one they felt best. Clearly some people don't agree, which is the nature of these things, but many people are just fine with the current design. It's subjective, we're not 'wrong'.

I'm also unaware of any patent for a popup camera that has Apple's name on it: this typically happens when they're at least considering something.

I imagine Apple has countless meetings, across huge numbers of teams, discussing and considering countless ideas, technological implementations, etc, that never get to the point of filing patents. I'm sure that's obvious.

Apple may consider a popup camera for a near future iPhone. We'll find out in time.

It's possible, though I still contend it violates many of the design priorities Apple has been following for the last many years.

 

[booksbooks]

It's not, really. If Apple did a pop-up, ok. It's not going to stop me from getting the latest iPhone. I really don't care that much. I think it would look clunky, and there are certain aspects I wouldn't appreciate fully, but that's true of all tech decisions. All I'm saying is that railing against the notch and claiming the pop-up is objectively better simply isn't justified. Subjectively? Absolutely, depending on the individual. But that requires recognizing both sides have legitimate reasons for liking what they like. I can recognize why some people might like a pop-up design. However, some people cannot recognize why others might prefer an in-screen design, and try to convince those people they're 'wrong'. That's why it comes across as personal.



This is demonstrably untrue. The phone has always prevented users from operating it 'upside down'. You could hold it upright, rotate 90 degrees to the left or the right, but nothing was allowed to rotate 180 degrees. The reason? There are hardware components to the phone that enforce an orientation during certain situations ... namely, the ear piece and the microphone as used during a phone call. If the phone were allowed to rotate 180 degrees, and the phone were 'upside down' when the user received a phone call, they may not realize it and try to speak on the phone with the microphone and ear piece inverted. Oops.



This has yet to happen to me since iPhones have had front facing cameras, but it's a possibility, sure. This reminds me, though, of another problem with the pop-up camera/sensors: it would effectively eliminate FaceID.







I don't believe I do. Claims were made the pop-up is the always the superior choice for front facing sensors. I presented counter arguments to that suggesting there are pros and cons to all sensor location models, and that pop-up vs in-screen can be seen as a largely personal preference given the nature of those pros and cons. There were no straw men involved.



Your own poll, which is not scientific, granted, strongly suggests I'm not far off on my assertion. Forums like this have a tendency to highlight those that are unsatisfied as, human nature being what it is, people are far more prone to take the time to complain about something if they're upset; they're less likely to be motivated to post something when they're happy. Even in an environment that over represents those that are unhappy, almost 75% of respondents to this poll said they'll buy an iPhone with or without a notch. My guess if you conducted a real poll in a more neutral setting, the percentage would be even higher.

That, and the fact that I have literally never heard a single person complain about the notch despite the many X and XS Max users I know and work with, while again, anecdotal, lends support to my theory.


Protect those sources you have deep in Apple. Knowing what they've considered or not is pretty sensitive information.

For the record, I never said they did or did not consider a pop-up. I responded to the claim that the reason they didn't have a pop-up was because they were technically incompetent. That's ridiculous on its face, and any person that looks that claim rationally knows so.

To provide additional clarity: Apple chose the notch not because they had other ideas but didn't know how to implement them (as the 'technical incompetence' claim would suggest), but because they considered all options and chose the one they felt best. Clearly some people don't agree, which is the nature of these things, but many people are just fine with the current design. It's subjective, we're not 'wrong'.



I imagine Apple has countless meetings, across huge numbers of teams, discussing and considering countless ideas, technological implementations, etc, that never get to the point of filing patents. I'm sure that's obvious.



It's possible, though I still contend it violates many of the design priorities Apple has been following for the last many years.

You confound a host of things.

• It's personal: I only said that because you said it. It's absurd to say that. No, this is not personal for me, never has. You inserted this, which is itself a weak strawman and a useless comment. Whether it's personal for you or not, I don't care.
• Defined top and bottom/180 degree rotation: First, the point is that without a notch and with an all screen device, there doesn't have to be a defined top and bottom. Second, you are wrong. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/no-upside-down-rotation-on-the-iphone-x.2084890/
• Popup camera/FaceID: No, the popup camera doesn't eliminate FaceID. There are phones right now that have popup cameras and FaceID, some arguably more advanced than Apple. https://www.bgr.in/news/vivos-new-face-id-technology-triumphs-over-apple-iphone-x/
• Strawman: "Claims were made the pop-up is the always the superior choice for front facing sensors." You just erected another one. I did not say this if that is what you're saying.
• Poll and your claim of "People honestly don't care": This poll didn't ask, "Do you honestly just not care about the notch". Again, you insert something that is unsupported.
• There is evidence that Apple was and is technically incompetent. First, the very existence of a design that incorporates the notch. If they could have an edge-to-edge screen, they would. There is no question there. The notch serves no purpose and creates a set of problems itself. This modern Apple has demonstrated on several occasions it's technical incompetence, including the AirPower mat that failed to ship because they admittedly couldn't get it done. Regardless, the notch is what Apple went with, and that is the focus here.
• Design priority violation: name these design priority violations that Apple would commit if they did a popup camera in an iPhone.

 

[Blaze4G]

At some point the mods may see fit to close a thread, in which the topic has been beaten to death and is going round in circles.


Problems the notch solves that the pop-up creates:
- no moving parts that can get jammed/broken and have debris in the mechanism
- smaller form factor
- distinctive stylish, look
- able to covertly spy
- don't have to wait for pop up

plus this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...e-notch-is-gone.2178645/page-12#post-27386797

Plus the un-scientific poll shows an over-whelming majority support the notch.

1. How does a notch make a phone a smaller form factor? This makes no sense.
2. How does a pop up camera make spying easier? If anything it makes it much harder.
3. iPhones take LONGER to open the selfie cam than the OP7 pro to raise the camera and open it. That's how slow the iPhone selfie cam is to open.

 

[booksbooks]

1. How does a notch make a phone a smaller form factor? This makes no sense.
2. How does a pop up camera make spying easier? If anything it makes it much harder.
3. iPhones take LONGER to open the selfie cam than the OP7 pro to raise the camera and open it. That's how slow the iPhone selfie cam is to open.

This.

 

[I7guy]

1. How does a notch make a phone a smaller form factor? This makes no sense.

Makes plenty of sense as the electronics are in the notch and not in the bezels. But it's still not a good enough answer as the oneplus "face id" is not as advanced as "face id".

2. How does a pop up camera make spying easier? If anything it makes it much harder.

How does a pop-up camera prevent spyware intrusions? That makes no sense and is not even accurate. Once spyware hits your phone (if in fact it does), microphone and every camera is vulnerable. And how do you know when the pop-up camera is in use, the spyware isn't siphoning the bits somewhere else.

3. iPhones take LONGER to open the selfie cam than the OP7 pro to raise the camera and open it. That's how slow the iPhone selfie cam is to open.

Citation please for the end-to-end timings.
[doublepost=1558900155][/doublepost]

You confound a host of things.

• [snip]
• There is evidence that Apple was and is technically incompetent. First, the very existence of a design that incorporates the notch. If they could have an edge-to-edge screen, they would. There is no question there. The notch serves no purpose and creates a set of problems itself. This modern Apple has demonstrated on several occasions it's technical incompetence, including the AirPower mat that failed to ship because they admittedly couldn't get it done. Regardless, the notch is what Apple went with, and that is the focus here.
• [snip]

Do you have a citation for this subjective opinion? Or is it just that...an opinion. Additionally, I invite anyone who thinks apple is technically incompetent, to design and release an "airpower" type of device. I mean, it must be a piece of cake for a technically competent engineer or (engineering department) to tackle.

 

[Ralfi]

As per vote, < a third of members aren’t concerned, as any sensible person shouldn’t be.

Yet, as per the internet, the highly vocal minority must have their ignoRANT views spammed again & again, despite the fact they & we know minds won’t be changed.

1. How does a notch make a phone a smaller form factor? This makes no sense.

Please close this thread.

 

[twowinns]

I'm holding onto my 8+ until its gone. The notch was the biggest esthetic design failure in Apples history.

You’d prefer and inch of solid black dead/wasted space at the top and bottom of your screen over a 1/4” notch? Strange.