I'm sick and tired of macrumors forum…

[adrianlondon]

I bet he's still reading so there's an even chance of that.

People write goodbye posts because they ultimately wanted attention, we provided the appropriate engagement 🤷‍♂️

I once wrote a "goodbye" post on a forum, as the moderation was too slack and every single thread was dominated by a handful of posters who just made the same political points over and over again, regardless of the thread title or forum area.

I logged out, scrambled my password, and never logged in again. The post was in an area not visible to non-logged-in people.

It was hard work mentally to fight the urge to reset my password and check, but I managed it. Just. 😁

 

[seggy]

I once wrote a "goodbye" post on a forum, as the moderation was too slack and every single thread was dominated by a handful of posters who just made the same political points over and over again, regardless of the thread title or forum area.

I logged out, scrambled my password, and never logged in again. The post was in an area not visible to non-logged-in people.

It was hard work mentally to fight the urge to reset my password and check, but I managed it. Just. 😁

"The final fart" is always tempting, but again, it really serves no other purpose than a cry for attention to somehow get your own back (which ain't happening) in your mind.

On this forum I have a good feeling I'll be ejected before I choose to leave, but I doubt I'll engage in that.

 

[seggy]

On a busy forum you have no time (nor typically the inclination) for consensus. I'd be really surprised if that is the case.

 

[Weaselboy]

I moderate on a different message board that's not nearly as busy as MR, but busy enough that the vast majority of moderated posts come to our attention via reports by other users, rather than something we see ourselves. So sometimes a similar post is seen to get a pass by the mods, when really it's just that nobody reported it and happened to report yours. Of course I don't know for sure, but I'll be willing to bet MR is the same way.

That is the case here on MR also. WAY too many posts for mods to see them all, so we in large part rely on member reports.

The other thing to remember is that (again I'm guessing about MR, but I bet it's similar) most things can't be done by one moderator alone.

It depends on the problem. If it is a clear rule violation like "you are a moron" or a LOL post (frivolous post rule), a single mod will handle with no discussion. The exception might be where there is a clear rule violation, but some mod discussion occurs surrounding what to do about it, that is a warning message versus a suspension, and how long the suspension should be.

There is also often discussion about whether a given post violates the rules. For example, is "You are crazy if you spend $2,500 on a MBP" an insult of a specific member or just a general comment and okay? We would discuss the context of the comment in the thread and come to a consensus either way.

 

[diego]

…and its moderators suspending me for breaking the forum rules. For stupid, silly little reasons that I won't go into here, because I post this not to argue about it, I just want to explain why you won't be seeing me much on the forums from now on. If you're a moderator, I'm sure you will be able to find the reasons for my suspensions, and what posts triggered them.

I feel I'm being treated like a child and I feel unwelcome. Anyone who has seen my posts in the forums I'm sure will agree with me that I have always been polite, positive and constructive. I have many years of experience and knowledge that I've tried to share with the community, but this last suspension was the last straw.

I will no longer participate in the forums like I have before. IMO, it's macrumors and its forum users' loss, not mine.

I've never seen a forum run in such an authoritarian way.

100% agree with you. This is exactly why I almost never post. It diminishes the experience of natural human dialogue.

 

[BenTrovato]

The moderation in this Starlink connectivity thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ink-connectivity-for-free-until-july.2449082/) appears inconsistent and potentially biased. While offensive comments, including some with Nazi-related content, remain visible, many constructive and technical comments supporting Starlink have been removed.

This selective moderation has created an imbalanced discussion and may suggest implicit support for certain viewpoints, which undermines the forum's role as a neutral platform. I guess many people assumed MR was a neutral platform but the moderation here points to the contrary. They disabled comments on the Apple Resumes advertising on X which also signifies where they stand. There should be a sticky that MR has taken a stance and comments contrary to their stance may be heavily moderated.

 

[icanhazmac]

The moderation in this Starlink connectivity thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ink-connectivity-for-free-until-july.2449082/) appears inconsistent and potentially biased.

I agree, I'm not sure I ever saw a thread with what appeared to be completely random moderation and also allowing comments that were 100% off-topic to remain. Many of these posts were flat out trolling but were allowed to remain.
Were I making that decision, I wouldn't have tagged the article "political" and any comment not in reference to the technology would have been mod'd. I also believe that approach would have been a lot less work than what that thread required.

This selective moderation has created an imbalanced discussion and may suggest implicit support for certain viewpoints, which undermines the forum's role as a neutral platform. I guess many people assumed MR was a neutral platform but the moderation here points to the contrary.

I agree, I cannot fathom why MR chose to leave so many clearly off topic and inflammatory posts live. I always try to give them the benefit of the doubt, as managing this cannot be easy, but it is getting harder and harder whenever an article can be loosely tied to a right of center individual.

Again, if you don't tag every Elon adjacent article as political, and mod every intentionally off-topic, trolling post, the recent articles would not have gone off the deep end.

They disabled comments on the Apple Resumes advertising on X which also signifies where they stand.

I'm not ready to agree here. In this instance, my optimistic view is that MR is trying different things to allow moderation to evolve. They went from allowing 2 or 3 articles to devolve into the wild wild west and now are on the polar opposite side, and just not allowing any comments. My most pessimistic view would be close to your own view on this, but I really hope not. People can not like Elon all they want, but does every single thread need to be a race to call everyone a Nazi? This is both childish and dangerous.

I still cannot fathom why they just don't stop tagging articles as "politics" that don't need to be and route out the virtue signaling children in a race to say Nazi first and as often as they can in a given post. Some articles, like the EU/DMA articles are inherently "political" and should be tagged as such. Though those threads can get heated and repetitious, they are usually far better than the 💩 shows we have seen over the last week or so.

Edit: I agree with the choice MR made on the X advertising article. That one was going to be a kobayashi maru, in a perfect world we would have had folks just registering their approval or disapproval but those previous threads showed us what would actually happen.

Edit2: "taken a softer approach to content moderation, allowing extremist views to proliferate on the platform", same thing could be said of MR for allowing childish, inflammatory posts to proliferate here.

 

[Zmmyt]

I wish MacRumors would publish a brief piece on how they plan to move forward regarding Apple’s change in direction and the influence of Trump and Musk, of the so-called “tech bros”.

I want to know if MR is courageous enough to take a stand against fascism.

 

[I7guy]

I wish MacRumors would publish a brief piece on how they plan to move forward regarding Apple’s change in direction and the influence of Trump and Musk, of the so-called “tech bros”.

Why would MacRumors need to do that?

I want to know if MR is courageous enough to take a stand against fascism.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I wish MacRumors would publish a brief piece on how they plan to move forward regarding Apple’s change in direction and the influence of Trump and Musk, of the so-called “tech bros”.

This is something with which I would be in complete agreement.

This is because that I do not believe that it is credible to attempt to argue (any longer) that the worlds of tech and the worlds of politics and power are not inextricably linked, and are, indeed, increasingly conjoined in a manner resembling some Siamese twins.

I want to know if MR is courageous enough to take a stand against fascism.

At the end of the day, MR is a privately owned platform, - and thus, they can say and do as they wish - and I doubt - possibly, for either commercial and/or ideological reasons - that they have any interest in taking such a stance.

Why would MacRumors need to do that?

Take a stand against fascism?

Or, agree - or disagree - with the suggestion that MR set aside a separate section of the forum dedicated to discussion (debate, disagreement) about where - and the extent to which - the worlds of tech and those of politics, power and governance have come to intersect and overlap?

 

[I7guy]

This is something with which I would be in complete agreement.

This is because that I do not believe that it is credible to attempt to argue (any longer) that the worlds of tech and the worlds of politics and power are not inextricably linked, and are, indeed, increasingly conjoined in a manner resembling some Siamese twins.




At the end of the day, MR is a privately owned platform, - and thus, they can say and do as they wish - and I doubt - possibly, for either commercial and/or ideological reasons - that they have any interest in taking such a stance.

Take a stand against fascism?

Macrumors is a tech site not CNN. And while I could be wrong, taking a stand against xyz cause is not Macrumors core mission.

Or, agree - or disagree - with the suggestion that MR set aside a separate section of the forum dedicated to discussion (debate, disagreement) about where - and the extent to which - the worlds of tech and those of politics, power and governance have come to intersect and overlap?

Are you suggesting to reincarnate PRSI?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

not CNN.

And?

And while I could be wrong, taking a stand against xyz cause is not Macrumors core mission.

Indeed it is not.

Are you suggesting to reincarnate PRSI?

No.

Not necessarily.

Rather, I am arguing that they have the courage of their convictions.

That, on the one hand, MR allow a space to acknowledge - to recognise - the degree to which tech now serves to influence - and determine - lives, given the extraordinarily powerful political role some of the "techbros" now play in the current administration, and carve out a space on the forum where this - and related matters - can be openly discussed.

In other words, that MR - as a tech site - reflect the role that tech titans now play in society, the economy, in politics today.

Or, failing that, that they accept that no political stuff of any description be discussed whatsoever, (rather than the clickbait excuse for political discussion that exists at present), and, instead, that exploration of tech matters on the site be confined to - what is to me - the sort of brainless banal stuff such as the desirability of a specific colour of Apple watch wristbands, the computing power of the (increasingly irrelevant) most recently released Mac, the next iteration of the iPhone, and so on.

Re the reincarnation - or restoration - of PRSI, while the idea may have some merit, I daresay that moderating it would require a significant investment in time and resources, one that may be considered excessive.

Nevertheless, it does seem unfortunate to me that in a world increasingly governed by (not just influenced by) tech platforms (and those who own them), that it seems next to impossible to find a space on these self same tech platforms where one can explore, and engage in a discussion, or debate, about these very same matters.

 

[bousozoku]

Bringing back PRSI would be like opening Pandora's Box and not finding Hope at the bottom.

People have shown themselves to be less than civil. They can't do better if they don't choose to do better.

Reading posts here and elsewhere shows me that people, in general, have little in the way of discipline. Seeing what people do in real life complicates my view of the world. It makes me wonder if parents and grandparents were ever training their children.

 

[I7guy]

...

All of this is all well and good, however, the site owner, who allows us to express ourselves, has some guidelines about where, what and how our expressions can take place. So according to those guidelines, for example, political discussions about the iphone battery in a non-political thread, should stay non-political. There are other places on the internet to express oneself exactly as described in a PRSI type of environment (hence the reference). However, MacRumors is not that place.

 

[bousozoku]

...


Nevertheless, it does seem unfortunate to me that in a world increasingly governed by (not just influenced by) tech platforms (and those who own them), that it seems next to impossible to find a space on these self same tech platforms where one can explore, and engage in a discussion, or debate, about these very same matters.

From what people on the streets have been recording and what I've been noticing, I would not want to put someone in jeopardy due to someone else's idealism in a post in the forums.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

From what people on the streets have been recording and what I've been noticing, I would not want to put someone in jeopardy due to someone else's idealism in a post in the forums.

There is that, agreed; very unfortunate, to say the least.

 

[BenTrovato]

I'm not ready to agree here. In this instance, my optimistic view is that MR is trying different things to allow moderation to evolve. They went from allowing 2 or 3 articles to devolve into the wild wild west and now are on the polar opposite side, and just not allowing any comments. My most pessimistic view would be close to your own view on this, but I really hope not. People can not like Elon all they want, but does every single thread need to be a race to call everyone a Nazi? This is both childish and dangerous.

It's happening again. I've noticed that pro-Elon comments often get moderated while calling him a "Nazi" slips through without being flagged as political speech which it obviously is. This isn't moderation, it's biased moderation and content suppression.

The narrative here is subtly shaped by how we frame discussions. It's not just "xAI," it's "Elon Musk's xAI." Not just "X," but "Elon Musk's X." Not "Tesla," but "Elon Musk's Tesla." This framing seems to bring out a community that's vocally anti-Elon, which is fine – everyone's entitled to their opinion. However, I believe the line should be drawn at unfounded accusations like "Nazi," which should be moderated but aren't. Instead, it feels like the moderation leans the other way.

I'm throwing in the towel here; the echo chamber wins again.

 

[adrianlondon]

Report the posts referring to people as Nazis.

If no-one reports the posts, the mods probably won't see them.

 

[icanhazmac]

Report the posts referring to people as Nazis.

If no-one reports the posts, the mods probably won't see them.

I've reported plenty of them, all come back with "The moderator team reviewed the post and concluded that no moderation action was warranted". Baseless and ill-informed accusations seem to be allowed now. Once the politics tag has been applied it's a free-for-all, unless of course, you are on the other side.

Hate speech is supposedly not allowed on this site, I cannot think of many things that are more hateful than falsely accusing someone of being a Nazi for the sole purpose of virtue signaling to your tribe.

 

[Digital Skunk]

The funny thing is, I thought this thread was a bit unnecessary and was surprised to see that the mods even allowed it to stay up. Kudos to them for even taking the criticism. I've been tagged, banned, timeoutted, and reprimanded for criticizing the forums the moderators and their lack of consistency in moderation.

I too stayed away for a long while and only chimed in very occasionally. I posted a smiley face and immediately wondered if that was "illegal" but assumed if it was it'd just be removed.

NO.

A moderator had to chime in my PMs with a reminder and goose step all over a smile face emoji.

It was very triggering, and in my old age it's a bit difficult to bring the heart rate down. Unnecessary moderation and overstepping was one of the reasons I moved away from the forums.

Seems I might have to go back into the shadows if nothing else for my health.

Report the posts referring to people as Nazis.

If no-one reports the posts, the mods probably won't see them.

The problem is, the mods seem to find every other benign post just fine. If we do report them then we get the "The moderator team reviewed the post and concluded that no moderation action was warranted"

Primarily because the mod at the time fits a certain demographic.

I've reported plenty of them, all come back with "The moderator team reviewed the post and concluded that no moderation action was warranted". Baseless and ill-informed accusations seem to be allowed now. Once the politics tag has been applied it's a free-for-all, unless of course, you are on the other side.

Hate speech is supposedly not allowed on this site, I cannot think of many things that are more hateful than falsely accusing someone of being a Nazi for the sole purpose of virtue signaling to your tribe.

For the longest time it was the other way around.

Years ago I had members throwing baseless accusations at me because of my avatar, which is a character from Civ5, and call me everything but a child of God and the mods did absolutely nothing. Left the posts up probably till this day.

If I said anything on the same level as what I received I was banned for 3 days.


I've long since understood that the moderators do not care to smooth out their biases.

That is the case here on MR also. WAY too many posts for mods to see them all, so we in large part rely on member reports.


It depends on the problem. If it is a clear rule violation like "you are a moron" or a LOL post (frivolous post rule), a single mod will handle with no discussion. The exception might be where there is a clear rule violation, but some mod discussion occurs surrounding what to do about it, that is a warning message versus a suspension, and how long the suspension should be.

There is also often discussion about whether a given post violates the rules. For example, is "You are crazy if you spend $2,500 on a MBP" an insult of a specific member or just a general comment and okay? We would discuss the context of the comment in the thread and come to a consensus either way.

To this I'd say: "Do better."

It may seem callous, maybe, but I'm not surprised that it's been nearly 7+ years since over moderation drew me away from the forums and that the same problems and criticisms exist.

Sure, I understand that in the big picture none of us really matter to you and that the mods have no interest in doing things better or being consistent, but could you at least try and maybe prove to folks that you're willing to try?

Then again, I guess this thread still being up is evidence that you're trying. The OP would've been banned years ago for creating it.

 

[seggy]

It's happening again. I've noticed that pro-Elon comments often get moderated while calling him a "Nazi" slips through without being flagged as political speech which it obviously is. This isn't moderation, it's biased moderation and content suppression.

The narrative here is subtly shaped by how we frame discussions. It's not just "xAI," it's "Elon Musk's xAI." Not just "X," but "Elon Musk's X." Not "Tesla," but "Elon Musk's Tesla." This framing seems to bring out a community that's vocally anti-Elon, which is fine – everyone's entitled to their opinion. However, I believe the line should be drawn at unfounded accusations like "Nazi," which should be moderated but aren't. Instead, it feels like the moderation leans the other way.

I'm throwing in the towel here; the echo chamber wins again.

I dunno man...

Did you see his tweet re Grok? Or how Tesla operates once the Hollywood Glow faded? The attachment is kinda unavoidable as long as the man(child - is that allowed here, insulting perhaps? or is it OK because it's tribe-friendly?) continues doing it, regardless of how his services and products may be standalone.

I feel like Elon dug a comfy pit for himself and as long as he stews in there he's sort of a foregone conclusion and we can all call him whatever we like, but that's just me 🤷‍♂️

 

[VisceralRealist]

It's not against the site rules to insult politicians/celebrities in the Politics News space. We've had this discussion before. Calling another user a Nazi would be modded. Calling Elon Musk a Nazi would not.

 

[seggy]

It's not against the site rules to insult politicians/celebrities in the Politics News space. We've had this discussion before. Calling another user a Nazi would be modded. Calling Elon Musk a Nazi would not.

In general I think avoiding the Nazi moniker is a good idea unless they've already started along the lines of eugenics and ethnic cleansing.

"Robber Baron" would be absolutely accurate tho

 

[VulchR]

...

The narrative here is subtly shaped by how we frame discussions. It's not just "xAI," it's "Elon Musk's xAI." Not just "X," but "Elon Musk's X." Not "Tesla," but "Elon Musk's Tesla." This framing seems to bring out a community that's vocally anti-Elon, which is fine – everyone's entitled to their opinion. However, I believe the line should be drawn at unfounded accusations like "Nazi," which should be moderated but aren't. Instead, it feels like the moderation leans the other way.

...

Well there was that one time when Musk made a palm-down one-handed gesture that contrasted to what Musk was supposedly saying at the time (he claimed he was giving love, but typically that gesture is both hands cupped palm-up, like presenting an actual gift). Anyway, I think it is really hard to separate the politics of today from technology discussions, and of course the moderators will have biases. We all do, and we are usually oblivious to them. I am pretty sure, though, if you alerted a moderator to somebody calling anybody else a "Nazi' in a post, the moderators would take the offending post down pretty quick. They have a difficult job, and do their best so far as I can see, so let us give them a break.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Anyway, I think it is really hard to separate the politics of today from technology discussions, and of course the moderators will have biases. We all do, and we are usually oblivious to them. I am pretty sure, though, if you alerted a moderator to somebody calling anybody else a "Nazi' in a post, the moderators would take the offending post down pretty quick. They have a difficult job, and do their best so far as I can see, so let us give them a break.

I agree we're oblivious to our biases. But as a former journalist we had to train to spot them and not make them AS obvious in our reporting.

As far as forum moderation, I cannot agree with any notion that biased moderators are acceptable. "Rules for thee but not for me" is a concept no civilized society should embrace.

As has been the case for a decade or more, calling the moderators does nothing if the mods are biased. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about calling a rich celebrity names, I'm talking about forum members saying: "Your avatar fits your violent nature," or "Given your avatar, I can see why you wouldn't understand," to me in non political forums.

I reported those posts for DAYS on end.

Nothing.

Then when I decided to toss something benign back at them I was banned for 3 days.

So, sure they have a difficult job, but so what? Lots of people do and we constantly ask them to do a better job so why not the moderators? It's not like reading a post and discussing it (with a hopefully diverse group of people who don't all believe the same thing) is hard work.

They shouldn't get a pass because we usually don't.