iMac 2013 (and later) with NVME SSD?

[dobrink]

When your Mac hits standbydelay timer or autopoweroff timers, it will enter hibernation, and crash upon waking followed by a restart.

You can easily test that by changing your hibernatemode to 25 and disabling standby: sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 25 standby 0

 

[DaDeNgDeNG]

Alright guys,
I got me a late 2013 iMac 21.5 a couple of months ago pre owned from eBay.
I recently upgraded the ram from 2x4GB to 2x8GB, iMac is working perfectly since then (maybe for 4 weeks + almost 24/7 turned on).
Yesterday I added a NVMe 1.3 PCIe SSD transcend 220s (DRAM cache version) to the built in 1TB SATA HD. I bought a cheap NVMe PCIe M.2 NGFF SSD 2013 2014 Adapter on eBay for connecting the transcend to the PCIe slot on the logicboard.

I ran several benchmark tools and all of them came up with 700 to 750 for both, reading and writing.
I also checked the SATA 1TB built in benchmarks and.... seriously guys, benchmarks where not even close to 100 for reading/writing xD xD xD Is an iMac SATA HD really that slow normally????

When I saw the transcend ssd Benchmarks I was pretty much ****ed up because I was expecting much higher R/W scores. I checked the lanes, 2 lanes instead of the transcend's offered 4lanes. I did some research and it seems like there's no way of getting the iMac to use 4 lanes, right?

Some people posted that sometimes the slow benchmark results of around 750 and 2 lanes instead of 4 come up because:
- the NVMe SSD isn't connected to the Adapter correctly. unplug it and replug it again.
- even if the NVMe is connected correctly, unplug the NVMe SSD from the logic board and replug it again sometimes change the 2 lanes to 4 lanes.
- sometimes it is just the M.2 Adapter which is not working with your Mac and/or NVMe SSD model. Try different adapters. Recommended: sintech adapters seem to work most of the time.

Alright, I did not unplug my NVMe again. I am just tired of tearing down the iMac again 😛
I also did not test different adapter brands, yet.

QUESTIONS:

1. As far as I am informed by now, late 2013 iMac 21.5 models are simply physically not able to support 4 lanes but only 2, right?

2. Also there is no possibility to get higher benchmarks by using different SSD drives like Intel 760 ssd models or stock apple ssd modules, right?

3. Trim is enabled but is it really suggested? Is it better for the system performance or does active trim slow down the system?

4. I today created a APFS Fusion Drive (NVMe SSD 250GB + 1TB SATA HD). I read that Fusion Drives were suggested back in the days but by now, more and more people write that Fusion Drives are not the best option and suggest not to use a Fusion Drive because it slows down the system too much. Instead just use the NVMe SSD and the SATA Hd separately. So what should I do best? Keep the Fusion Drive or go with a separate NVMe PCIe SSD + SATA HD?


My iMac runs continuously for maybe 48hours now without any bugs, hardware problems, and so on.
No sleep problem, all fine.

Oh and one last advice:
If you tear down your iMac, DO NOT USE SUPERGLUE AS REPLACEMENT FOR APPLE's STOCK TAPE TO ATTACH THE DISPLAY TO YOUR IMAC AGAIN xD xD xD xD xD I did so, all fine until I came up with the idea of adding an extra SSD xD xD xD It was a hell of a work to disconnect the display again 😉

 

[Edinhio]

I am realy excited on someones answer to your question DaDeNgDeNG, No. 1 and 2.

I have a IMac 27" Late 2013 14.2 and I want to buy this components, you guys think this will work?
Blade Disk:Link 1
Adapter:Link 2

I also want to keep a HHD inside for my BIG-Data, I want to exchange the original Apple 1TB HDD with an 4TB WD HDD. Do I need the Temperature Sensor, or will it work without?

Thanks for your answer 🙂 I am really excited to take this thing apart.😵😛

 

[asaadsedar]

Hello everyone
I have iMac 27" late 2013 which I upgraded 2 years ago from 1TB HDD to Fusion Drive by adding 128 SSD ( the Original Apple SSD pulled from MacBook Air ) and bellow is my Read/Write Speed.

This upgrade is:
1- cheaper since you only need the original apple blade 128GB SSD (easy to find also because people been changing those to upgrade their MacBook Pro / Air to bigger memory so the 128gb is easy find and cheaper)
2- No Sleep Issues with the iMac since you are using the Original Apple blade 128GB SSD.
3- The speed is almost identical to the NVME speed since the PCIe 2x2 act as a bottleneck

Basically I don't see any reason to go for NVMe and getting the Sleep problem and pay more !! Since I have 1tb+128gb Fusion with with same speed.

Correct me please if I am wrong 🙂

 

[Farmerjohn832]

Hello everyone
I have iMac 27" late 2013 which I upgraded 2 years ago from 1TB HDD to Fusion Drive by adding 128 SSD ( the Original Apple SSD pulled from MacBook Air ) and bellow is my Read/Write Speed.

This upgrade is:
1- cheaper since you only need the original apple blade 128GB SSD (easy to find also because people been changing those to upgrade their MacBook Pro / Air to bigger memory so the 128gb is easy find and cheaper)
2- No Sleep Issues with the iMac since you are using the Original Apple blade 128GB SSD.
3- The speed is the is almost identical with the NVME since the PCIe 2x2 act as a bottleneck

Basically I don't see a reason to go for NVMe and getting the Sleep problem and pay more !! Since I have 1tb+128gb Fusion with the same speed I will get from the NVMe

Correct me please if I am wrong 🙂

Can you tell me what year Mac air you got your blade from? I have a blade from a 2013 air but that thing was only getting 300/600 bench mark r/w speeds previously. I rather not install that if that is going to be speed. Thinking of buying a 256 gb apple drive.

Also. Why is everyone with a 2013 obsessed with blade drives when potential is Speed Is maybe 750ish. Why not just upgrade sata3 bus 2.5 one only? Where that top speed should be 400-550 range. Is 200 transfer rate worth the hassle in getting in that deep?

i want to upgrade ram and will be in that deep anyway so I may consider buying the Apple blade hard drive if I really get a big boost in performance. I have a 1tb Samsung evo 860 2.5 SATA3 already I’m pulling from another system.

 

[asaadsedar]

Can you tell me what year Mac air you got your blade from? I have a blade from a 2013 air but that thing was only getting 300/600 bench mark r/w speeds previously. I rather not install that if that is going to be speed. Thinking of buying a 256 gb apple drive.

Honestly I am not sure which Macbook Air i got the blade from, but I am confident that your Blade should work (if u are sure its from MBA 2013 it will work) and I think its same like mine , because all macbook air 2013-2014 shipped with PCIe 2.0 x with 2 Lanes means they can do ≈ 700 read/write , maybe you were not able to get the most out of your Hard drive because you needed the lates bootrom i am not sure also you will not get any extra benefit of 256 vs 128 both will run at the same speed and you will only get extra capacity in the total capacity of the fusion Hard, check this article will help u :
Here

Also. Why is everyone with a 2013 obsessed with blade drives when potential is Speed Is maybe 750ish. Why not just upgrade sata3 bus 2.5 one only? Where that top speed should be 400-550 range. Is 200 transfer rate worth the hassle in getting in that deep?

Ok in My case i had an extra 128 Apple blade so instead of buying 1TB 2.5” SSD which was around $200 at that time and ended getting 500 r/w speed, I just installed the extra 128ssd i have and got the 700/500 r/w speed for me it was ( Free upgrade , Faster , Bigger capacity ( not much but 128 extra)) , and till now i think the 128ssd is less than half of the price of the 1tb 2.5” SSD also faster and will get bigger capacity.
Now for you question abut the difference on the speed, For the basic tasks and for faster booting time you will not notice the difference at all between those upgrades, thats why i decided to comment ( why people go to nvme since u are not getting the speed of the nvme !! again 2013-2014 iMac has PCIe 2.0 x2 lanes means you will never jumb over ≈ 790 r/w speed !!!) I had MacBook Pro 15” 2015 that one i put nvme because the original drive was PCIe 2.0 x4 lanes or PCIe 3.0 x2 lanes and the macbook pro itself has PCIe 3.0 x4 lanes so NVMe will almost double the speed if i put NVMe PCIe 3.0 x4.

i want to upgrade ram and will be in that deep anyway so I may consider buying the Apple blade hard drive if I really get a big boost in performance. I have a 1tb Samsung evo 860 2.5 SATA3 already I’m pulling from another system.

Since u saying you need to open it to upgrade the RAM thats mean u have the 21.5”, so before you decide between PCIe or 2.5” SSD u need to make sure your iMac has PCIe port because not all 21.5” Has PCIe port. you may end stuck with only one option which is 2.5” if u have no PCIe port.

 

[Farmerjohn832]

Thanks for the response. Your right. Come to think about it. My sister had her MacBook Air nearly max capacity. I had to delete so much. I installed a 500 gb ssd. I have the extra 128 sitting around. I’ll use that if there is a PCIe slot. I’ve read that all late 2013 21.5in had PCIe slots. But i don’t know if that is true. We will see soon enough. Will take on project in a couple of weekends

 

[Farmerjohn832]

Ok I can confirm 21.5 late 2013 imac has PCIe slot even if it wasn’t originally a fusion drive.

 

[Edinhio]

Ok I can confirm 21.5 late 2013 imac has PCIe slot even if it wasn’t originally a fusion drive. View attachment 868831View attachment 868832View attachment 868833View attachment 868834

and does it use 2x or 4x lanes for the PCIe Flash Memory, which one did you install?

 

[Farmerjohn832]

and does it use 2x or 4x lanes for the PCIe Flash Memory, which one did you install?

2 lane
[automerge]1570877102[/automerge]

 

[Farmerjohn832]

did some research about various ssd blades

Below black magic score was tested in my 2015 mbp I bought very recently. I pulled ssd from 2015 mbp to put into imac. Took 128 Gb ssd from a 2013 mba and put it in my newer2015 mbp. I am planning on getting a much bigger hard drive for the mbp in the near future.

2013 mba ssd caps at 350/650ish
2014 models hitting much higher thresholds at 500-700 ranges
2015 gets into 1200 ranges.

so the year does make a difference.
Here’s some good information.
Differences in ssd years

luckily went with gut based on above research. It would have been annoying to tear down the iMac again to change the blade ssd again. I’m happily getting 750 read and write persistently.

 

[DVX]

Ok, I converted my Late 2013 27" iMac now with a 2 TB Samsung 970 Evo using the Sintech ST-NGFF2013-C adapter. As you said, it is straight forward and without any hassles (except that you have to open the iMac). TRIM is automatically enabled:

View attachment 776651

I am getting speed rates of slightly below 780 MB/s (both read and write), which is way under the Samsung's nominal performance:

View attachment 776650

The above speed test was performed directly after installation, so it might be the drive's thermal throttling in action. The iMac however feels blistering fast and the installation was extremely quick as well. What speeds could I expect with the Late 2013 iMac (PCIe 2.0x2)?

...

As it stands I am not sure whether I keep the setup or whether I switch and install a standard SATA SSD. I am travelling right now so further testings will have to wait ...

 

[Eduard01]

Hi guys i just want to make sure that i can use in my late 2013 27" (base model 1TB hdd, no fusion) apple newer ssd 256gb SSUBX 4gen 4x (16+12 pin) it has aluminium heatsink model number: MZ-JPV256R/0A1 -

It will be only little bit slower (aroud 750read) but it will work as it should right? thx for answer

 

[kubaj123]

Hi!
I have small little issue with my NVMe Crucial P1 500GB.

I Have iMac 5k 27' Late 2015 With Fusion Drive (1TB HDD + 32GB Apple SSD)

I decided to buy Crucial P1 because of recommendation from YT and many other places. My problem I that:

i have installed od HDD OSX Catalina and formate the 32GB Apple SSD - everything works normally but a little bit slow because of OS X on HDD.
Then I tried to install NVMe Crucial P1 with Adapter on motherboard (no-name, longer adapter - not Sintech) and that's where problems happen. When Crucial P1 is installed I have totally non response from iMac. Cant even Boot, not even a Fan Spin. When I remove name with only HDD there is no problem at all. Installing back Crucial P1 and nothing happens... I Have tried internet recovery key combination, everything but my iMac won't even start with SSD plugged in... Without everything is ok.

Can someone please tell me if I am doing something wrong? I tried on Catalna and Mojave with High Sierra, Catalina on USB but non of this will even try to start. Totally dead.

Maybe it is a adapter fault? Maybe I have bought a non compatible ssd? ( but on snitch site P1 is as compatible)

 

[Saulera]

Hey guys I have the same exact issue with deep sleep on a 970 Evo pro NVMe drive with my iMac. When it goes to sleep i can not wake it up with the mouse/keyboard, i have to press the power button, I will get a black screen for about 5 seconds and a flashing folder with a question mark appears. I have to power down and up again to get back to OSX. I also tried running bootcamp w/ win10 and it wouldn't let me install Windows 10 on it, it looks like it will install but sits at 0% and i get an error message. Anyone ever install windows 10 successfully on this specific drive? Just curious.

Just FYI in case someone is planning on upgrading to this specific drive and adapter.

My iMac is
Late 2015
3.2GHz i5 | 32GB 1867MHz DDR3 | Radeon R9 M380

I used this adapter -
Sintech NGFF M.2 nVME SSD Adapter Card for Upgrade 2013-2015 MacBook
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FYY3H5F/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and this drive -
Samsung 970 PRO 512GB - NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 SSD (MZ-V7P512BW)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C8Y31G2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Event in console
com.apple.message.domain: com.apple.wake.failure
com.apple.message.signature: Drivers Failure
com.apple.message.signature2: RP17(IONVMeController)

in the end i get some crazy speeds though, as long as i turn off sleep it runs fine.

Hi Jaden87.

I also have an Imac 27 - Late 2015 - A1419 and my Blade SSD is about to fail soon. How is your Imac working after the update? I know this post is old and I was wondering if OS Catalina solved all issues on Evo97. If you could get me some feedback I would appreciate it.

 

[Szilzsolt]

Hi guys, could somebody tell me why my late 2013 27” imac(base model 1Tb hdd model) doesn’t recognise the apple flash blade(128Gb samsung MZ-JPV1280/0A4) as Nvme hardware, it is recognised as SATA drive. I did the normal installation of the OS(actually i have tried both internet recovery and usb install) and still cant see it as NVME drive. I have read speed up to 768mb/s and 662mb/s for write speed.

Anybody has any clue why is like this considering its an apple 12+16pin blade puled from a 2015 macbook pro

 

[mdgm]

Not sure whether that's meant to show as a NVMe drive or not.

However, your iMac is running a very old bootrom IM142.0130.800 (see your Hardware Overview screenshot - the last of the three).

See if you can update to the bootrom from Big Sur. There are suggestions in Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe on how to update the bootrom.

The new bootrom should also solve the hibernation issues with using 3rd party NVMe SSDs.

Edit: Oops. Catalina is the latest Mac OS for your Mac. I think the latest bootrom in Mac OS 10.15.6 Catalina for your Mac might be version 146.0.0.0.0.

 

[Edinhio]

I have the same situation.
Doesnt show as a NVMe, just as a SATA with the same speed as yours.
So you are allright, this is the max speed you can get out of this mac.

 

[Szilzsolt]

Not sure whether that's meant to show as a NVMe drive or not.

However, your iMac is running a very old bootrom IM142.0130.800 (see your Hardware Overview screenshot - the last of the three).

See if you can update to the bootrom from Big Sur. There are suggestions in Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe on how to update the bootrom.

The new bootrom should also solve the hibernation issues with using 3rd party NVMe SSDs.

Edit: Oops. Catalina is the latest Mac OS for your Mac. I think the latest bootrom in Mac OS 10.15.6 Catalina for your Mac might be version 146.0.0.0.0.

Msgm thanks mate...
I’m running Catalina on it now i was just wandering why for some people it’s listed under Nvme in Hardware Overview and for some is under Sata/sataexpress...
Thats the other thing i dont know why it didn’t updated the bootrom when i installed the OS over interned recovery..
Or on the other hand it didn’t updated even when installed from a USB drive..
I read about that post which you mentioned about “big sur” and thats the next thing i’ll try as soon as my internet will be up and running again..

 

[Szilzsolt]

I have the same situation.
Doesnt show as a NVMe, just as a SATA with the same speed as yours.
So you are allright, this is the max speed you can get out of this mac.

Regarding the speeds i know its the max i can get out of it and its fine..
It’s still a lot faster with this Pcie SSD then it was with the original HDD which died a few days ago, thats why i changed my drive to a 256Gb SSD and i got this blade from a 2015 MBP which had a moderboard failure

 

[dayslypper]

According to iMac 27 Late 2013...
I personally tried only SSD with NVMe compatibility, but according to previous examples it seems that

- in NVMe mode there is Write speed limited between 400-500 MB/s
- without NVMe (AHCI mode) there can be Write speed 600-700 MB/s

...or is it non-sense?

 

[Bd9999]

Ok, I converted my Late 2013 27" iMac now with a 2 TB Samsung 970 Evo using the Sintech ST-NGFF2013-C adapter. As you said, it is straight forward and without any hassles (except that you have to open the iMac). TRIM is automatically enabled:

View attachment 776651

I am getting speed rates of slightly below 780 MB/s (both read and write), which is way under the Samsung's nominal performance:

View attachment 776650

The above speed test was performed directly after installation, so it might be the drive's thermal throttling in action. The iMac however feels blistering fast and the installation was extremely quick as well. What speeds could I expect with the Late 2013 iMac (PCIe 2.0x2)?

Furthermore, SMART data readings is not supported:

View attachment 776652

As it stands I am not sure whether I keep the setup or whether I switch and install a standard SATA SSD. I am travelling right now so further testings will have to wait.

Thanks,
Magnus

Hi, I made the mistake of buying the wrong adapter for my Late 2013 27in iMac (NGFF M.2 NVMe SSD Convert Adapter Card for Upgrade) and I noticed that no one on the Internet sells an adapter specifically for iMacs (any iMacs - it's all their laptops, Airs and Pros only).
The ST-NGFF2013-C is, apparently, no longer made, however, the ST-NGFF2013 (without the C in the part number) is still available.
Any idea if there is another adapter anywhere that will support an NVME drive on the iMac (late 2013)?
I suppose I'm screwed (it's bad enough that model is incompatible with just about everything, worse, that I spent $300 on bad advice from other forums)

 

[Bd9999]

According to iMac 27 Late 2013...
I personally tried only SSD with NVMe compatibility, but according to previous examples it seems that

- in NVMe mode there is Write speed limited between 400-500 MB/s
- without NVMe (AHCI mode) there can be Write speed 600-700 MB/s

...or is it non-sense?

Did you ever get it to work? I've opened my Late 2013 27in iMac 5 times and getting frustrated as I've tried several brands of adapters on the Samsung 970 EVO drive (which I know works) and the iMac just won't recognize it. It runs Catalina fine on the stock drive, but because it's only 128GB, I can't use BootCamp to dual boot to win 10 - it needs 64GB minimum and, with Catalina, I can only get 60GB (which I desperately need!).

 

[mbosse]

Hi, I made the mistake of buying the wrong adapter for my Late 2013 27in iMac (NGFF M.2 NVMe SSD Convert Adapter Card for Upgrade) and I noticed that no one on the Internet sells an adapter specifically for iMacs (any iMacs - it's all their laptops, Airs and Pros only).
The ST-NGFF2013-C is, apparently, no longer made, however, the ST-NGFF2013 (without the C in the part number) is still available.
Any idea if there is another adapter anywhere that will support an NVME drive on the iMac (late 2013)?
I suppose I'm screwed (it's bad enough that model is incompatible with just about everything, worse, that I spent $300 on bad advice from other forums)

Here it is: https://www.amazon.com/-/en/gp/prod...o05_s00?tag=macr05-21&ie=UTF8&geniuslink=true

There is no difference in the SSDs or the connector between MacBook Pros, Airs or iMacs. Having said that, I would try the following:

1. Your EFI Firmware should be 430.0.0.0.0, if not update your iMac to the newest macOS you can (Catalina) and check again;
2. Install the Samsung properly seated in the adapter and then also properly seat it into the slot on the motherboard;
3. (The Samsung 970 Evo tends to get quite hot, so you might want to mount a slim metal heatsink such as this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076YZMQR5?tag=macr05-21&geniuslink=true)
4. Close the iMac and temporarily fix the screen carefully with sticky tape;
5. Start up and boot into Internet Recovery, there open Disk Utility and select 'show all devices' under 'View' in the toolbar. Even if not formatted, your Samsung 970 Evo should show;
6. (only if the Samsung does not show here, buy the ST-NGFF2013-C adapter!)
7. Select the Samsung SSD and format for Catalina, then continue installation;
8. Move all your data and observe the iMac's behaviour for a solid couple of days, particularly the sleep/hibernation issues which plagued the older iMacs in the past when upgraded with NVME drives (newer firmwares should have addressed this, but I have no way to test this);
9. Only is all is fine, seal the iMac with the correct display tapes.

In any case, the SSD's speed will be limited to about 780 MB/s (both read and write).

Good luck,
Magnus

 

[mdgm]

The latest security updates for Mojave should also update the EFI firmware.