iMac and MacBook Pro Upgrades in First Half of 2011?

[butterfly0fdoom]

Apple discontinued the iPod mini at a time when it was the best selling iPod ever, it's not unheard of for them to do something like that.

Its replacement, the iPod nano, was subsequently the best selling iPod ever until the iPod touch came around. Likewise, the plastic MacBook was the best selling MacBook ever (although that can't have been hard since the only other MacBook at the time was the MacBook Pro) until the 13" MacBook Pro came along.

Previous 13" white MacBook and 13" MacBook Pro (Late 2009 and Mid 2009, respectively) had a "7-hour battery-life". The Mid-2010 versions of both computers have a "10-hour" battery life" while maintaining the same size chasis, and just about all other internal components. I'd attribute it to the increased efficiency of the GeForce 320M's function as the system controller, but that can't be the whole story.

The battery in the Mid 2010 models have slightly increased battery capacity, as well.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Its replacement, the iPod nano, was subsequently the best selling iPod ever until the iPod touch came around. Likewise, the plastic MacBook was the best selling MacBook ever (although that can't have been hard since the only other MacBook at the time was the MacBook Pro) until the 13" MacBook Pro came along.

Right. My point is that the market segment isn't going anywhere, but the product in that segment is. The 13" MacBook Pro isn't sticking around much longer, given the problems plaguing the line and how the White MacBook and the 13" MacBook Air each have their own means of taking that spot (by the former essentially being the same computer and the latter being more powerful in even less of a form factor).

The battery in the Mid 2010 models have slightly increased battery capacity, as well.

Uh...that was kind of my entire point there. Or are you just agreeing with me?

 

[alent1234]

Both amd and nvidia make you go to your laptop maker for mobile graphics drivers. And most people don't care about driver updates since it rarely makes a difference.

Even mbp's use intel graphics until you play a game or do something that needs the 320.

Regarding rumours of an Intel-only graphics solution for the MBP 13 - 4 reasons why I hope it doesn't happen (reposted here at the request of Yebubbleman):

1. Price. Something that seems to have been overlooked in all of the arguments for the SB IGP solution in the MBP 13 is that the SB GPU is essentially a "free" offering. SB + i3 will quickly become the stuff of sub-$400 notebooks, if not sub-$300 netbooks. Apple will have a hard time justifying a $600-$700 price premium for this kind of hardware package. Apple could make this pill slightly easier to swallow by offering the i5 or equivalent in the 13-inch model. It has been noted that the nVidia 320m is also an IGP, therefore "free" - but selecting a chipset based on IGP capabilities seems to be a little different than relying on an on-die GPU that will come with every CPU - especially when the "custom" IGP approximates the performance of previous generation discrete offerings (nVidia 320m performs at approximately the same level as the 9600m GS, due to more cores, along with increased system RAM bandwidth - and just slightly below the DDR2 9600m GT).

2. Product cycles. GPU manufacturers have lived in a world of grueling product cycles for years. Chip revisions have come as often as every six months to answer the ever-increasing needs of games, HD video, and now, multi-processing apps. How willing will Intel be to retool a CPU plant just for the sake of increasing the performance of the on-die GPU?

3. Ditto software cycles. nVidia and AMD are used to shipping drivers at regular intervals to address rendering artifacts in new or previously untested applications, and to improve performance. I have seen performance increase by as much as 25% over the lifecycle of a GPU, owing only to driver updates. Is Intel going to be this responsive to what will have to be perceived as the demands of "casual gamers?" Their track record with previous graphics offerings suggests "no" - just ask any Linux user stuck with an Intel IGP. If you think Flash performance under OSX is bad with the nVidia offering, just wait until you try playing "Farmville" on an Intel GPU.

4. Questionable OpenCL performance. So far the language surrounding OpenCL performance in SB has been evasive, in my book. Is OpenCL going to be supported by the GPU, as well as the CPU? If so, it would appear that Sandy Bridge has 12 shader cores vs. 44 for the current nVidia IGP. Undoubdtedly they are faster, but are they 4x as fast?

IMHO, if this is the direction the 13-inch MBP is going, Apple would do better to kill it in favor of the MBA and focus on the 15 and 17-inch offerings (presumably with Sandy Bridge and actually "killer" discrete graphics).

 

[Hellhammer]

Even mbp's use intel graphics until you play a game or do something that needs the 320.

There is no Intel graphics in 13" MBP, it's just the 320M. With 15" and 17", that is the case, and it's 330M, not 320M.

 

[alent1234]

If people are willing to pay such a ridiculous price for a 13" laptop with a c2d CPU they will do so with an intel Igp in there. Apple will just add a few more features elsewhere to make people think it's worth it

C2d basEd laptops I see as hot deals on fatwallet because intel is trying to clear inventory.

 

[calaverasgrande]

really wht differentiates the MB 13" and MBP 13" besides 1394 and the color of the case? Oh wait SD card and 2gb ram.
Soooo.
2gb ram is what $35?
usb-SD reader $9
the aluminum vs polycarbonate is kind of a draw. I hate the way they look but some folks really dig that whole white-apple-stuff vibe.
So $200 diff for $44 of stuff, plus you get firewire!
The more I think about it I cant believe the 13" MB isnt dead already.
But hey, we can only speculate until the turtlenecked one walks on stage.

 

[rivageek]

I'm looking to buy a MBP and contemplating on waiting to see what new announcements there are or just buying one now.

 

[pep.pep]

What's the word on the updates?

You think Summer? Or earlier?

I going to buy a MCP at some point, but not sure if I feel like waiting 4-5 months.

 

[jbyun04]

18.5" iMac coming soon priced at $999 is my bet
I'm excited to see what kind of upgrades come to the MBP though I expect to be let down

 

[jstjck]

1. People absolutely use the optical drive. This may be the number one largest deterrent to getting the MacBook Air, certainly out of all of the Mac users I know. I mean, hell, simply using the thing as a portable DVD player is nice.

2. MacBook Pros can last 8-10 hours on a single battery charge. More than that is extraneous; when are you going to be longer than that without an adapter

+1. I may not use my drive everyday but it's how a lot of media gets into my iTunes. Not everyone can afford to a) buy multiple machines for 1 house (I prefer laptop as portable) and b) replace decades of CDs / DVDs with new downloads from the store. And why should I pay more for something that I already have???

If you want to watch a movie, rip it to your hard disk.

How do I "rip" it without a drive???

Internet is very cheap nowadays.
I have 24Mbps unlimited for 20$ monthly fee.

So, where to get the BluRay quality?
One word: Torrents

Aside from the illegal component of this comment, here in Australia we are limited to what volume & speed of internet we can access. For instance, outer metro Melbourne in new estates has meant no cable, no DSL - have to use 3G USB sticks that are a) low in data volume allowance and b) up and down with speeds dependent on time of day & coverage strength. Shouldn't it be more congenial?

 

[Yebubbleman]

really wht differentiates the MB 13" and MBP 13" besides 1394 and the color of the case? Oh wait SD card and 2gb ram.
Soooo.
2gb ram is what $35?
usb-SD reader $9
the aluminum vs polycarbonate is kind of a draw. I hate the way they look but some folks really dig that whole white-apple-stuff vibe.
So $200 diff for $44 of stuff, plus you get firewire!
The more I think about it I cant believe the 13" MB isnt dead already.
But hey, we can only speculate until the turtlenecked one walks on stage.

It's the 13" MBP that I'm pretty sure they'd kill, mainly because the graphics options on it are poor and those who'd be buying the MB wouldn't be ones to care about said graphics options anyway.

 

[Yebubbleman]

+1. I may not use my drive everyday but it's how a lot of media gets into my iTunes. Not everyone can afford to a) buy multiple machines for 1 house (I prefer laptop as portable) and b) replace decades of CDs / DVDs with new downloads from the store. And why should I pay more for something that I already have???

How do I "rip" it without a drive???

Aside from the illegal component of this comment, here in Australia we are limited to what volume & speed of internet we can access. For instance, outer metro Melbourne in new estates has meant no cable, no DSL - have to use 3G USB sticks that are a) low in data volume allowance and b) up and down with speeds dependent on time of day & coverage strength. Shouldn't it be more congenial?

Even in the states, downloading any HD quality torrent takes an inconveniently long amount of time. When movies and software PRIMARILY come out on SD cards/downloads, then I'll be fine with no optical drive as its replacement will have truly arrived in earnest.

 

[MacQuest]

19" MacBook Pro. NO, I'm NOT CRAZY! Just hear me out...

I think I got it right here:

- 13" MacBook
discontinued or renamed "MacBook Classic/White/whatever"
[price dropped to $799 and keeps the same "old" technology to become the entry level Mac notebook and contrast it against the new technology in the MacBook Air/MacBook and MacBook Pro lines]

- 11"/13" MacBook Air renamed "MacBook"

If the rumors of 4 MacBook Pro models are true:

- 13"/15"/17"/19" MacBook Pro

If the rumor is not true, then the 13" MacBook Pro will disappear:

- 15"/17"/19" MacBook Pro

* MacBook Pro 19" *
- Core i7 [quad - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 400 series GPU [or better?]
- 6GB ram
- 512GB flash storage
- Light Peak port?
- Premium audio system [Beats Audio?]
- Wider trackpad for two handed multi-touch input/gestures?
- 1" height [about the same as current 17" MBP]
- 7 to 8 pounds
- 1 model @ $2999

There's several 18.4"+ windows notebooks that cost $1500-$3000+ and none of them weigh under 15 pounds. Apple can introduce a 19" MBP model at $3000 [the original 17" PowerBook cost $3300] and come in at about half the weight of the competition. Current MBP lineup weights [approx.] : 13" @ 4.5lbs, 15" @ 5.5lbs, 17" @ 6.5lbs.

Every extra 2 inches of diagonal screen size adds about one pound [lb] give or take, so a 19" MacBook Pro should be around 7.5lbs IF Apple were to keep the current enclosure design. I think we'll see a re-design of the MBP's that will look more like the current MacBook Airs though [thickest at the back, no more than 1" - and thin in front].

Soooo, how does Apple do this?

Ditch HDD's as already done with MBA's. Maybe due a dual FS/HDD drive option on MBP's for superior performance/capacity/perceived value/cost reduction. Large capacity FS is expensive - combine 64+GB FS chips for rapid access, with 250+GB HDD's for less expensive, larger capacities. I think Apple will go all FS though to eliminate traditional hard drive hassles..

Lose optical drives all together. Maybe have a removable optical drive option like HP does on some of it's models just for the MacBook Pro line. This would only be an option assuming Apple dumps the 13" MBP due to size constraints [which I'll be unhappy about because I've been hoping for a 13" MacBook Pro with a Core iSeries processor and discrete GPU] and goes 15"+ only [15"/17"/19"]. This "modular" approach may be too cumbersome and therefore non-Apple like, so this option is unlikely IMO. Although just keeping at least an internal optical drive option in the MacBook Pros will further distinguish them from the MacBook Airs, which again I believe will adopt the simple "MacBook" name.

With the space savings from removing HDD's and optical drives, plus the lower profile of Intel's new Sandy Bridge Core iSeries processors, Apple should now be able to get a discrete graphics card in the 13" MacBook Pro with an i3 or i5 so that the entire MacBook Pro line will finally actually be Apple's "Professional" class notebook line, as opposed to only the 15" & 17" models being worthy of that title as is the case now because of the NVIDIA 320M integrated graphics system hindering the 13" MBP.

* Apple Macbook Pro 13" *
- Core i5 [dual - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 330 [minimum] discrete GPU
- 4GB ram
- 256GB [minimum] flash storage
- 1440x900 resolution display [same as current MacBook Air and 15" MacBook Pro]
- Light Peak port?
- 1 model @ $1499

If it survives the cut, we'll probably see either an update to only the 13" MacBook Pro VERY soon to address the low resolution display issue [currently lower than the 13" MacBook Air] or a an entire MBP line upgrade featuring the new Core iSeries processors shortly after Intel starts shipping dual core versions of them later this month or by early February [currently only quads are available and could only be used viably in 17"+ form factors to avoid/reduce heat issues- like in a 19" MacBook Pro model as well].

An entire product line upgrade to accommodate new internal components will likely also bring us a re-design. I think Apple will use the current MacBook Air design for all aluminum Mac notebooks. The CPU/GPU performance will be the primary differentiators that will separate the lines [as has always been the case].

Maybe the space and weight savings from eliminating the HDD and optical drive from the 15" [and 17"] models will allow for enough of a re-design and further weight savings from it to make the 15" the new entry level MacBook Pro at around the current 13" models weight [one more reason to eliminate the 13" MacBook Pro].

* Apple Macbook Pro 15" *
- Core i5/i7 [dual - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 400 series discrete GPU
- 4GB ram
- 128GB [minimum] flash storage
- 1680x1050 resolution display
- Light Peak port?
- 2 models @ $1799/$1999

If the 13" MBP gets discontinued, then I think Apple should just include 1920x1200 HD displays across the entire MacBook Pro line [15"/17"/19"]. That would be a simple and great distinction between the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines, HD and non-HD.

The then obligatory re-designed [lighter, thinner] 17" MBP [i5/i7, dual/quad - FINALLY quad core Apple notebooks!] with all of the aforementioned specs for the 15" [or better] would then become the mid-range MacBook Pro.

* Apple Macbook Pro 17" *
- Core i5/i7 [dual/quad - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 400 series discrete GPU [or better?... for high end i7 model]
- 4GB/6GB ram
- 256/384GB flash storage
- 1920x1200 HD display
- Light Peak port?
- 2 models @ $2199/$2599

and to reiterate:

* MacBook Pro 19" *
- Core i7 [quad - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 400 series GPU [or better?]
- 6GB ram
- 512GB flash storage
- Light Peak port?
- Premium audio system [Beats Audio?]
- Wider trackpad for two handed multi-touch input/gestures?
- 1" height [about the same as current 17" MBP]
- 7 to 8 pounds
- 1 model @ $2999


Them's my 2¢.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I think I got it right here:

- 13" MacBook
discontinued or renamed "MacBook Classic/White/whatever"
[price dropped to $799 and keeps the same "old" technology to become the entry level Mac notebook and contrast it against the new technology in the MacBook Air/MacBook and MacBook Pro lines]

- 11"/13" MacBook Air renamed "MacBook"

If the rumors of 4 MacBook Pro models are true:

- 13"/15"/17"/19" MacBook Pro

If the rumor is not true, then the 13" MacBook Pro will disappear:

- 15"/17"/19" MacBook Pro

* MacBook Pro 19" *
- Core i7 [quad - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 400 series GPU [or better?]
- 6GB ram
- 512GB flash storage
- Light Peak port?
- Premium audio system [Beats Audio?]
- Wider trackpad for two handed multi-touch input/gestures?
- 1" height [about the same as current 17" MBP]
- 7 to 8 pounds
- 1 model, $2999

There's several 18.4"+ windows notebooks that cost $1500-$3000+ and none of them weigh under 15 pounds. Apple can introduce a 19" MBP model at $3000 [the original 17" PowerBook cost $3300] and come in at about half the weight of the competition. Current MBP lineup weights [approx.] : 13" @ 4.5lbs, 15" @ 5.5lbs, 17" @ 6.5lbs.

Every extra 2 inches of diagonal screen size adds about one pound [lb] give or take, so a 19" MacBook Pro should be around 7.5lbs IF Apple were to keep the current enclosure design. I think we'll see a re-design of the MBP's that will look more like the current MacBook Airs though [thickest at the back, no more than 1" - and thin in front].

Soooo, how does Apple do this?

Ditch HDD's as already done with MBA's. Maybe due a dual FS/HDD drive option on MBP's for superior performance/capacity/perceived value/cost reduction. Large capacity FS is expensive - combine 64+GB FS chips for rapid access, with 250+GB HDD's for less expensive, larger capacities. I think Apple will go all FS though to eliminate traditional hard drive hassles..

Lose optical drives all together. Maybe have a removable optical drive option like HP does on some of it's models just for the MacBook Pro line [this would only be an option assuming Apple dumps the 13" MBP due to size constraints and goes 15"+ only - this "modular" approach is very un-Apple like though, therefore this option is unlikely IMO] to distinguish it from the "MacBook Airs" [which again, I believe will take the "MacBook" name].

With the space savings from removing HDD's and optical drives, plus the lower profile of Intel's new Sandy Bridge Core iSeries processors, Apple should now be able to get a discrete graphics card in the 13" MacBook Pro with an i3/i5 so that the entire MacBook Pro line will finally actually be Apple's "Pro" notebook line, as opposed to only the 15" & 17" models being worthy of that title as is the case now because of the NVIDIA 320M integrated graphics system used in the 13" MBP.

* Apple Macbook Pro 13" *
- Core i3 [dual - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 330 [minimum] discrete GPU
- 4GB ram
- 256GB [minimum] flash storage
- 1440x900 resolution display
- Light Peak port?
- 1 model @ $1499

We'll see either an update to only the 13" MBP [if it survives the cut] VERY soon if not simultaneously to the entire MBP line featuring the new Core iSeries processors right after Intel starts shipping dual core versions later this month or by early February [currently only quads are available and could only be used in 17"+ models - like a 19" MacBook Pro model as well].

All this will need some internal component re-organizing/re-engineering and should warrant an enclosure re-design. I know Apple's going to do it. I think we'll have current MacBook Air design aspects for all aluminum Mac notebooks but with very different internal components and processing/graphics specs and performance as a result.

Maybe the space and weight savings from eliminating the HDD and optical drive from the 15" [and 17"] models will allow for enough of a re-design and further weight savings from that re-design that the 15" can become the new entry level MacBook Pro at around the current 13" models weight.

* Apple Macbook Pro 15" *
- Core i5/i7 [dual - Sandy Bridge]
- NVIDIA 400 series discrete GPU
- 4GB ram
- 128GB [minimum] flash storage
- 1680x1050 resolution display
- Light Peak port?
- 2 models @ $1799/$1999

If the 13" MBP gets discontinued, then I think Apple should just include 1920x1200 HD displays across the entire MacBook Pro line [15"/17"/19"]. That would be a simple and great distinction between the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines, HD and non-HD.

The then obligatory re-designed [lighter, thinner] 17" MBP [i5/i7, dual/quad - FINALLY quad core Apple notebooks!] with all of the aforementioned specs for the 15" [or better] would then become the mid-range MacBook Pro.

* Apple Macbook Pro 17" *
- Core i5/i7 [dual/quad]
- NVIDIA 400 series discrete GPU [or better?... for i7 model]
- 4GB/6GB ram
- 256/384GB flash storage
- 1920x1200 HD display
- Light Peak port?
- 2 models, $2299, $2699

and to recap:

* MacBook Pro 19" *
- Core i7 [quad - flash storage]
- NVIDIA 400 series GPU [or better?]
- 6GB ram
- 512GB flash storage
- Light Peak port?
- Premium audio system [Beats Audio?]
- Wider trackpad for two handed multi-touch input/gestures?
- 1" height [about the same as current 17" MBP]
- 7 to 8 pounds
- 1 model, $2999


Them's my 2¢.

I think you misunderstood the original post. They weren't predicting four SIZES of MacBook Pros, they were predicting four MODELS of MacBook Pros. The 15" has historically had three models and the 17" historically has had one. That makes four and conveniently excludes the two models of 13" MacBook Pro. A 19" model would be interesting, but definitely overkill. You're not going to get Lightpeak on this next rev, nor are the optical drives going anywhere on the MacBook Pro line. Otherwise, those are some interesting ideas there.

 

[alent1234]

with sandy bridge bringing very good battery life to cheapo PC laptop i'm pretty sure Apple will make SSD the only storage option on all MacBooks just so they can charge at the same price points

 

[anomie]

+1. I may not use my drive everyday but it's how a lot of media gets into my iTunes. Not everyone can afford to a) buy multiple machines for 1 house (I prefer laptop as portable) and b) replace decades of CDs / DVDs with new downloads from the store. And why should I pay more for something that I already have???

How do I "rip" it without a drive???

Aside from the illegal component of this comment, here in Australia we are limited to what volume & speed of internet we can access. For instance, outer metro Melbourne in new estates has meant no cable, no DSL - have to use 3G USB sticks that are a) low in data volume allowance and b) up and down with speeds dependent on time of day & coverage strength. Shouldn't it be more congenial?

How about simply not buying it then?? You are saying all of this as if there was no Apple laptop with an optical drive available.
The MBA is obviously just not made for you!

 

[sebseb81]

Has anyone here been to a college campus lately? There are tons and tons of students who have MBs and MBPs (13 inch) (granted, there are a lot of rich of out-of-state students at the university where I teach). These models aren't going anywhere anytime soon and their price is not going to drop. Apple is making a ton of money currently (granted not that much percentage-wise through their Mac sales) so why would they accommodate your fantasies of price reductions?

I do think, however, that the refresh cycle for the MBAs might be quicker than people think, esp. if they are targeting the MBA11 to students - in which case why refresh in October, a month after classes start?

 

[Yebubbleman]

How about simply not buying it then?? You are saying all of this as if there was no Apple laptop with an optical drive available.
The MBA is obviously just not made for you!

You clearly missed the point of the thread; this wasn't anyone talking about the MacBook Air negatively, it was a response to people suggesting that the MacBook Pro gain MacBook Air-like qualities. No one here is ragging on the Air.

Has anyone here been to a college campus lately? There are tons and tons of students who have MBs and MBPs (13 inch) (granted, there are a lot of rich of out-of-state students at the university where I teach). These models aren't going anywhere anytime soon and their price is not going to drop. Apple is making a ton of money currently (granted not that much percentage-wise through their Mac sales) so why would they accommodate your fantasies of price reductions?

They absolutely will, there is an abundance of 13" computers right now that all are just as fast as one another and, soon, just as similarly priced. The white MacBook essentially IS the 13" MacBook Pro save for exceptions that none of the students at the school that you teach will even know or care about anyway. Apple is not one for redundancy in its product lines. Plus the 13" Pro is failing to meet the needs of a decent amount of its customers in terms of speed (processor) and graphics, and unless it gets a major internal redesign, those problems aren't going away.

I do think, however, that the refresh cycle for the MBAs might be quicker than people think, esp. if they are targeting the MBA11 to students - in which case why refresh in October, a month after classes start?

Who said that they were targeting the 11" Air to students?

with sandy bridge bringing very good battery life to cheapo PC laptop i'm pretty sure Apple will make SSD the only storage option on all MacBooks just so they can charge at the same price points

The 15" and 17" MacBook Pros will retain the hard drive for the sake of more space. You can still fit more on a laptop hard drive than you can on an SSD, whether it be an mSATA "blade" or a 2.5" SSD drive.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I will get the 2011 model if we see a 15" quad core, with USB 3.0 and Firewire 800 ports and 512 GB SSD with a somehow reasonable price

 

[Yebubbleman]

I will get the 2011 model if we see a 15" quad core, with USB 3.0 and Firewire 800 ports and 512 GB SSD with a somehow reasonable price

So, what you're essentially saying is that you won't be getting a 2011 model as we're not seeing USB 3.0 on these and they won't be reasonably priced, especially with a 512GB SSD drive.

 

[sebseb81]

They absolutely will, there is an abundance of 13" computers right now that all are just as fast as one another and, soon, just as similarly priced. The white MacBook essentially IS the 13" MacBook Pro save for exceptions that none of the students at the school that you teach will even know or care about anyway. Apple is not one for redundancy in its product lines. Plus the 13" Pro is failing to meet the needs of a decent amount of its customers in terms of speed (processor) and graphics, and unless it gets a major internal redesign, those problems aren't going away.

I disagree that they are "essentially" the same... because they are not! Yes, internally they are relatively similar (, except for a few things like the amount of standard RAM, etc.) but style and price-wise they are different. And Apple puts a lot of emphasis on style and design, last I checked. Certainly university students care about both price and style, and are very able to discern the differences in these two product lines.

I understand your point that Apple does not like redundancy in its product lines... but Apple created these different product lines! (The 2010 version of the MBA doesn't really change things here either, if that's what some of the people in this thread are referring to.) And clearly they felt that they could make a distinction between what the MB delivers as a product and what the MBP delivers based on the styling of the laptop and some upgraded hardware.

I agree that the MBP13 could definitely be made better (with even better hardware specs) to truly distinguish it from MBs. But I don't think they will stop carrying both options or reducing prices soon. I will, however, be pleasantly surprised if what you predict comes true.

Who said that they were targeting the 11" Air to students?

I don't have the transcript of the October event speech on hand, but I'm pretty sure there was mention of how great the MBA11 would be for students, who are among the most mobile users. And it's priced the same as the MB, which is also aimed at students. I suppose you will disagree on that point as well, though.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I disagree that they are "essentially" the same... because they are not! Yes, internally they are relatively similar (, except for a few things like the amount of standard RAM, etc.) but style and price-wise they are different. And Apple puts a lot of emphasis on style and design, last I checked. Certainly university students care about both price and style, and are very able to discern the differences in these two product lines.

Most students don't actually know how to discern between the two; they assume that the silver one is better, and it is, albeit marginally. As for them being the same, they are at the logic board level. It's virtually the same logic board; it can take 8GB of RAM (despite Apple saying that the white MacBook is capped at 4GB); design they are even similar. But at the technological core, the two machines are the same. Most students are also broke and if they're getting a MacBook Pro, then either, they needed the FireWire port and fell into the small category of college students that know enough to know that they need the 13" Pro over the white 13", or mommy and daddy had the extra cash to spend on it, or both. That's also why everyone who owned a Black MacBook did; if you priced out a white model with the exact same specs, the black one was still $50 more. Trust me, I both was a college student recently and work at a computer repair shop in a college town.

I understand your point that Apple does not like redundancy in its product lines... but Apple created these different product lines! (The 2010 version of the MBA doesn't really change things here either, if that's what some of the people in this thread are referring to.) And clearly they felt that they could make a distinction between what the MB delivers as a product and what the MBP delivers based on the styling of the laptop and some upgraded hardware.

Apple isn't going to kill the 13" Pro due to redundancy. Redundancy is the reason why they could if they wanted to. They're going to kill it because they won't do what is necessary to both put graphics that are an incremental improvement from the GeForce 320M and similtaneously a Core i series processor and of the Core 2 Duo + 320M machines out there, it is the only one that truly demands that kind of an upgraded performance without the sacrifices that would need to be made to achieve even one of those goals otherwise.

I agree that the MBP13 could definitely be made better (with even better hardware specs) to truly distinguish it from MBs. But I don't think they will stop carrying both options or reducing prices soon. I will, however, be pleasantly surprised if what you predict comes true.

If not this refresh, then definitely the next.

I don't have the transcript of the October event speech on hand, but I'm pretty sure there was mention of how great the MBA11 would be for students, who are among the most mobile users. And it's priced the same as the MB, which is also aimed at students. I suppose you will disagree on that point as well, though.

No, MacBooks are aimed at students because they are cheap and durable. Neither thing could as easily be said about the 13" MacBook Pro or the 11" MacBook Air.

 

[jbyun04]

Much as I love the idea of the Flash storage.. unless it's minimum 512gb, I hope Apple does not switch MacBook Pros to use purely that.. 128GB-256GB just isn't enough space for prosumers..500gb is barely enough

 

[Yebubbleman]

Much as I love the idea of the Flash storage.. unless it's minimum 512gb, I hope Apple does not switch MacBook Pros to use purely that.. 128GB-256GB just isn't enough space for prosumers..500gb is barely enough

13" Pro, I could see it purely using SSD storage. But I couldn't see it on the 15" and 17". All three sizes will have mSATA blade SSDs, the 15" and 17" will also have a 2.5" bay for a hard drive or a second 2.5" SSD drive. At least, that'd be how I'd do it. This would allow Apple to nix the hard drive bay on the 13" Pro, allowing for enough room for a discrete GPU, thereby giving that computer a distinct purpose from the 13" Air and white MacBook that isn't simply "it has x port/slot that I really need" or "because it's aluminum and aluminum LOOKS cooler".

 

[calaverasgrande]

MBP does not have "8 hours of battery". That is a best case scenario with very light use. If you are doing serious work you might get 4-5 hours if you are lucky. So yeah, there is certainly room for more battery.
I also gotta wonder at all the 13" MBP defenders. It's abundantly clear that the 13" space is overcrowded. Even before the anouncement/rumour that there will only be 4 SKUs of MBP I was pretty sure that one of the 13" Macs had to go. The performance gulf between the 13" MBP and the rest of the MBP line is pretty big. Its really very similar to the MB non pro and the Air. And for that matter the air eclipses the white macbook quite well. I cant think of any justifiable reason to buy a white macbook over a an Air (lighter, sexier) or MBP 13" (also sexier, plus more connectivity).
I would love to see the numbers for how many white macbooks sold after the air came out. Especially after the cheaper air came out.