iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro Systems Must Pass Apple Diagnostics to Function After Certain Repairs [Updated]

[chucker23n1]

Besides, this is not due to design, they are artificially and willfully imposing a time limit to the ability to repair a product for absolutely no reason other than to screw their customers. That’s ********.

You're assuming that. We don't actually know how Apple will treat vintage/obsolete Macs with a T2. Apple itself might not even know yet.

It also isn't artificial. It can be argued that it's a poor design, or even that it's deliberately malicious, but it's not artificial.

Even companies that "need and depend on the fastest and most powerful hardware" will buy the cheapest toilet paper available, because a penny spent is a penny denied the shareholders. That $10K Mac, and the employee who insisted upon getting it, will eventually stick out as wasteful spending.

By your logic, no company has ever had someone build an extravagant skyscraper for their headquarters.

 

[fat jez]

I could certainly see the T2 being used as a form of hardware key to prevent OSX being installed on any machine not equipped with one. That would kill the Hackintosh market dead.

 

[David.Kennedy]

This is ridiculous. Apple, the moment i pay you for one of your products, it's MINE; and I reserve the right to have ANYONE I CHOOSE repair it. This is authoritarian, and anti-freedom. Shame on you.

Keep telling yourself that it's yours. You might believe it.

 

[MacBH928]

There was a time when Apple Computers meant quality hardworking last-longing computers. Now its a fashion item, expensive and outdated by next year.

I think I can say with ease that I think its time the from the womb of the old Apple consumers, a birth of a new company is wanted to replace MacOS and Windows. Maybe its time build their own solution... because Tim obviously doesn't care and he just wants to milk consumers forever. There was a time where all Apple wanted 5-10% of the computer market.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I could certainly see the T2 being used as a form of hardware key to prevent OSX being installed on any machine not equipped with one. That would kill the Hackintosh market dead.

I see the opposite happening, they won’t bother even fighting the Hackintosh market with these restrictions in place. It’s a market they clearly don’t want.

 

[barmann]

I personally know people who buy iMac Pros. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So do I . All of them bought low specced models on sale .
Which models did your friends buy, the top of the line with all options ?
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i think that, as someone has mentioned above (sarcastically), it is about "planned obsolescence" in way.
yes, apple will hope you will buy a new computer at the end of its natural life (not nefariously calculated life).
i think these new rules will result in a much newer and more capable installed base of machines.
think of it as the physical/mechanical extension of what apple does with its macOS: even today on this very site there is a huge headline story about how quick iOS 12 adoption is. apple and most users of this site are proud of how efficient apple is maintaining a new OS on iOS devices as well as macOS on mac devices.

these new Support/Maintenance rules are the physical equivalent of that.
so as a result of these rules about Support/Maintenance, apple will be fostering an installed base of devices running highly capable systems both software, and now, hardware as well.

First of all, iOS and OSX are entirely different things, and not even in the least compatible .
There is some akward interaction and data transfer possible between the two, I'll give you that .

Second, the upgrade cycles of OSX in recent years have been more disruptive and even destructive to people's workflows and productivity than any of the older OSXs ever were .
Compatibility, speed and adjustabilty have taken a nosedive since Mavericks .
It's a downward spiral that is hurting users arguably even more than the issues with current mac hardware .

 

[ChrisMoBro]

Insert double facepalm it’s cause when one is just not enough to express woes.

I triple your facepalm!

 

[chucker23n1]

So do I . All of them bought low specced models on sale .

In that case, I don't understand why you'd argue that "there is no market for the highend iMac Pros, and noone is buying them". If that was intended to be sarcasm, I didn't take it as such.

Which models did your friends buy, the top of the line with all options ?

One eight cores with 1 TB SSD; the other, I believe, ten cores with 2 TB SSD.

 

[Manzanito]

You're assuming that. We don't actually know how Apple will treat vintage/obsolete Macs with a T2. Apple itself might not even know yet.

It also isn't artificial. It can be argued that it's a poor design, or even that it's deliberately malicious, but it's not artificial.

Fair enough, I don’t know what apple will do when iMac pro becomes obsolete, but they should clarify what are they planning to do.

English is not my mother tonge, so maybe artificial is not the proper word to use, but it seems to me that the decission of preventing repairs unless the computer runs a test that only they possess is something apple chose to do, not a consequence of the design of the machine.

 

[todesto]

I see a class action suit just over the horizon.

I agree.

This is ridiculous. Apple just trying to capitalize on everything but usually it doesn't work that way. There are departement that requires detailed attention and professionalism. Apple can't do all that.

 

[effbee23]

They’ll tell you that your hardware is vintage, no longer supported, and cannot be repaired by a third party. And then they’ll offer to sell you a new Mac.

Just a speculation, robby.
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Fair enough, I don’t know what apple will do when iMac pro becomes obsolete, but they should clarify what are they planning to do.

English is not my mother tonge, so maybe artificial is not the proper word to use, but it seems to me that the decission of preventing repairs unless the computer runs a test that only they possess is something apple chose to do, not a consequence of the design of the machine.

Is it really sure that "only they possess" this test software? What exactly the "document MacRumors obtained" says? If this is not the case, everything here is pure speculation.

 

[chucker23n1]

English is not my mother tonge, so maybe artificial is not the proper word to use, but it seems to me that the decission of preventing repairs unless the computer runs a test that only they possess is something apple chose to do, not a consequence of the design of the machine.

I don't believe so. They probably designed the T2 security mechanism in such a way that this is necessary. Whether that was a good choice is a different question.

As I understand it, if the T2 detects component replacement, it will treat it as possible tampering, and therefore set a "I've been tampered with and refuse to boot" flag that needs to manually get reset.

The part I don't get about that, however, is why it can't, as an option, invalidate its encryption keys instead, making a potential hacker unable to recover any data (thus fulfilling the security purpose). Theft protection, perhaps?

 

[twistedpixel8]

This will have a direct effect on resale value of Macs. Who in the right mind will pay a decent amount of money for a used device soon to be unable to be repaired by *anyone*?

The tech-naive and the rich are pouring money into Apple’s pockets and this is why they’re able to operate like this. I’m genuinely really sad that this is what Apple has become. I really wanted to buy a 2018 MBP but this news coupled with the difficult-to-swallow price has made up my mind. Time to go Linux.

 

[Manzanito]

I don't believe so. They probably designed the T2 security mechanism in such a way that this is necessary. Whether that was a good choice is a different question.

As I understand it, if the T2 detects component replacement, it will treat it as possible tampering, and therefore set a "I've been tampered with and refuse to boot" flag that needs to manually get reset.

The part I don't get about that, however, is why it can't, as an option, invalidate its encryption keys instead, making a potential hacker unable to recover any data (thus fulfilling the security purpose). Theft protection, perhaps?

Maybe it was designed as a security measure, as you suggest, but if you can’t repair the machine as a consequence, that’s indeed a rather dumb design. Let’s not forget how fragile are mbp keyboards (even though the last ones seem to be ok).

 

[Drakenvlucht]

They’ll tell you that your hardware is vintage, no longer supported, and cannot be repaired by a third party. And then they’ll offer to sell you a new Mac.

I am afraid so.

All in all, it seems time to move oneand leave the apple ecosystem sadly enough

 

[chucker23n1]

Maybe it was designed as a security measure, as you suggest, but if you can’t repair the machine as a consequence, that’s indeed a rather dumb design. Let’s not forget how fragile are mbp keyboards (even though the last ones seem to be ok).

Yes, there are problems with this design no doubt. (That said, we don't know much about this decision yet. We'll see how Apple actually handles it.)

 

[lec0rsaire]

An investment in a tool that enables you to do productive work is an investment, even if the asset depreciates over time. That's why companies depreciate the assets they buy yet the CFO still approves.

Yes, this is true but more in an enterprise environment. It just tends to be overused by individual people when buying cars, computers, TVs and all sorts of things because they are considered expensive purchases. I tend to view investments as only assets that appreciate over time. They don’t have to be limited to real estate, precious metals, equities, bonds and other financial instruments. They can also be investment grade art, certain luxury watches, certain vintage cars, musical instruments and things of that sort which tend to be scarce.

 

[rboerdijk]

Similar story here, had macs exclusively for the past ~10 years. but now there's just too many reasons to switch away. Apple killed the platform for video-games (already a niche, but without OpenGL support trying to force Metal... At my company we always supported mac-ports, but it's simply not viable like this). Then the hardware, first macbook with dgpu was ~1800 euro... Now we are at 3000 - and I still have a feeling I'm making a compromise ( non-upgradable memory, no magsafe, non-replaceable battery... and soon not-repairable due to T2 lockdown), I can't even use my iMac as an external display for my macBook-pro... wtf?! ... I could afford it - if I really wanted to - but there's simply no reason for it. For my work it makes more sense to get Linux knowledge, mac is killed as a gaming platform, so it doesn't make sense for me to invest into xcode development. So basically had enough of it and bought my first non-mac machine 3 months ago (windows + linux), and over the next 2-4 years all old macs are going to be replaced. Quite happy with it ( and will soon stick another nvme drive in it + 16GB extra ram) - and love my 32" 4K monitor (to which I can actually connect my mbp!)

 

[nicho]

It's actually optional when I got my 6S' battery replaced last month. The genius that I talked said I didn't have to, but in some authorised service centers, they ask for you PIN which is a huge no no for me, so I usually voluntarily wiped my iPhone clean before service (thank goodness for iTunes backup).

In China it’s not.

 

[pika2000]

In China it’s not.

Well too bad then. Sorry to hear that.

 

[nicho]

Well too bad then. Sorry to hear that.

It wasn't the end of the world (the phone, in fact, was no longer in use and about to be given to someone new) but it did make me wonder why everything had to be reset for a simple battery replacement. I wonder if they were so busy they just randomly threw refurbs at some people.

 

[pika2000]

It wasn't the end of the world (the phone, in fact, was no longer in use and about to be given to someone new) but it did make me wonder why everything had to be reset for a simple battery replacement. I wonder if they were so busy they just randomly threw refurbs at some people.

From security perspective, it makes sense, as it also forces people to backup their devices (and also reduces their liability if something goes awry).

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Apple has said for years that Macs have to have diagnostics run to complete repairs.

I suspect they're exaggerating here. I suppose we'll see where it goes.

And of course your local repair guys will always fix old systems. Actually had Apple tell us to "stop working on that immediately and give it back to the customer, it's vintage" once. Yeah, we fixed it. We'll still recap a Mac Plus too.

 

[Feenician]

https://ifixit.org/blog/11673/t2-mac-repairs-test/

 

[Jwil736]

Don’t think so. Having the right to repair a device doesn’t mean the company is obligated to make that job easier for you.

It’s not making it “easier”. If its proprietary to only Apple and authorized repair shops and HAS TO BE performed then it should be available to any repair shop to purchase the equipment. That would be like a car manufacturer saying you can’t change your own brake pads without a scan tool that you cannot buy and have to go to the dealer.