'iMac Pro' Coming in 2022 With M1 Pro/Max Chips, 27-Inch Mini-LED Display, MacBook Pro Ports and More

[Ifti]

Im after an iMac with M1 Max, 32GB Ram, 1TB SSD.
Ports I need are at least 4 TB, 10GBe, and SD card slot.

I will then be happy to replace my current MacBook [and most likely my left kidney].

 

[Homy]

The maxed versions probably, but not the starting prices. Cheaper on ram and ssd upgrades. But no way a iMac 27 inch with m1 max and required 32gb will start at around $2000, not even with a 512gb ssd, and binned m1max with 24gpu cores.

No, of course not, who says that? But the entry iMac with the same spec as MBP 14", M1 Pro 8-core CPU, 14-core GPU, 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD will according to rumors start at around $2000, just like MBP 14".

 

[Adarna]

I was really hoping for a larger than 27" display and 3.5mm display border.

I find it odd that they'd put a HDMI port on any iMac. Historically it never came with it.

These are the I/O of the following iMacs

• iMac 21.5" & 27"

• iMac Pro

• iMac 24" four ports

• iMac 24" two ports

I'd personally prefer the iMac Pro's I/O continue as is but swap out SDXC for CompactFlash

Will the M1 Pro & M1 Max have identical performance across all desktop & laptop Macs?

Just like the M1 with all desktop & laptop Macs?

The iMac 24" comes with a 143W power adapter.

While the iMac 27" has a 300W PSU & iMac Pro has a 500W PSU.

A 40-core iMac Pro would have M1 Max chip that may look like this.

 

[citysnaps]

Yes, the iMac Pro's $5K (& up) sticker really killed it from being popular.

The way that I read the "...will have a starting price at or over $2,000" is that there's some internal contingent at Apple who understands how the original iMac Pro's high price killed it, so a little leak like this may help manipulate internal politics at Apple.

With that in mind, since this is an "at/over" and not an "under", the only thing that this leak does is to show that there's pressure for its starting price to start with a "2". As such, I'd call this more of evidence of an internal contingent who believes it should be "under $2999" that's being debated (or maybe gaining traction).

It's not internal politics. At the end of the day, whatever it turns out to be, Apple will need to return an approx 40% gross profit margin in order for it to go forward. That will govern its feature set and retail price. Companies live by GPM. That's the driver.

 

[MrMister111]

No, of course not, who says that? But the entry iMac with the same spec as MBP 14", M1 Pro 8-core CPU, 14-core GPU, 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD will according to rumors start at around $2000, just like MBP 14".

So entry level 27/30 whatever size it is with 16/512 win be the same price as 24 16/512? Can’t see that personally

 

[Homy]

So entry level 27/30 whatever size it is with 16/512 win be the same price as 24 16/512? Can’t see that personally

Won't be the same price and I said around $2000. iMac 24" with 16/512 costs $1900. iMac 27" with 16/512 today costs $2200. $300 difference.

 

[ValO]

No, of course not, who says that? But the entry iMac with the same spec as MBP 14", M1 Pro 8-core CPU, 14-core GPU, 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD will according to rumors start at around $2000, just like MBP 14".

Ok, sorry, probably reacted to the wrong post then.
But still think it could be around $2299 for the config you are talking about.

 

[Juuro]

Will the M1 Pro & M1 Max have identical performance across all desktop & laptop Macs?

I think they will use the exact same chips. There won't be any special desktop chips from Apple, only a range of chips with different features/performances which they will put in the devices they see fit.

A 40-core iMac Pro would have M1 Max chip that may look like this.

The Jade 4C-Die at the moment is the most powerful chip Apple will make in the foreseeable future. Do you really think they will put this one in the iMac already? I think the Mac Pro will have the most powerful chip only. maybe we will se the Jade 2C-Die in the iMac. I hope so.

 

[Adarna]

I think they will use the exact same chips. There won't be any special desktop chips from Apple, only a range of chips with different features/performances which they will put in the devices they see fit.

The Jade 4C-Die at the moment is the most powerful chip Apple will make in the foreseeable future. Do you really think they will put this one in the iMac already? I think the Mac Pro will have the most powerful chip only. maybe we will se the Jade 2C-Die in the iMac. I hope so.

Rumor is Apple will combine the iMac 27" into the iMac Pro and the product line will be called the iMac Pro.

Using IBM's 2nm node process one 30cm² silicon wafer can yield nearly 10 trillion transistors.

Below are some transistor count estimates when TSMC's 2nm node process is expected to start in 2025.

Assuming raw performance remains linear then the 2025 iPhone Pro Max may have the raw performance between today's A15 & M1 Pro.

​

Form Factor (As of 6 Nov 2021)​	Mac Pro iMac Pro​	Mac mini Pro Mac Pro iMac Pro​	MBP 14" MBP 16" Mac mini Pro iMac 24" iMac Pro​	MBP 14" MBP 16" Mac mini Pro iMac 24"​	MBA MBP 13" iMac 24" Mac mini 2021 iPad Pro​	iPhone 13 iPhone 13 mini iPhone 13 Pro iPhone 13 Pro Max 2021 iPad Mini​	300mm² Silicon Wafer​
Apple silicon chip​	M1 Max Jade-4C​	M1 Max Jade-2C​	M1 Max​	M1 Pro​	M1​	A15​	?​
Launch​	Q2 or Q4 2022​	Q2 or Q4 2022​	Q4 2021​	Q4 2021​	Q4 2020​	Q3 2021​	?​
Peak Quoted Transistor Densities using TMSC's 5nm (2020) at the same die size 171.3 million transistors per mm²​	228 Billion​	114 Billion​	57 Billion​	33.7 Billion​	16 Billion​	15 Billion​	5.19 Trillion​
Estimated Die Size​	8.502cm²​	6.3765cm²​	4.251cm²​	2.513cm²​	1.19cm²​	1.116cm²​	30cm²​
Peak Quoted Transistor Densities usingIBM's 2nm (2025) at the same die size 333.33 million transistors per mm²​	443.66 Billion​	221.83 Billion​	110.92 Billion​	65.58 Billion​	31.13 Billion​	29.19 Billion​	10.1 Trillion​

Just for fun imagine a 1 square foot 2nm node process chip with over 10 trillion transistors in a Mac Pro? Would it be worth a quarter $ million to any of us?

 

[SteveW928]

Yes, very few systems could drive a 5K display at that time. Everyone assumes it's a simple open and shut case, but it gets way more confusing than just a question of "Bandwidth: yes or no?"

If you want to get into some of the gory details, there's a rather in depth review of the BlackMagic eGPu that wanders into the reasons why hardly any 5K displays exist and why at the time there's only one eGPU that even supports driving a 5K resolution monitor despite that there were numerous eGPUs that had Thunderbolt ports.

iMacs before the 5K iMacs could be used in target display mode. None of them have supported it since, but there are 3rd party solutions that will allow you to use it at scaled resolutions. I don't know how well they work though.

Thanks for the link. I suppose there are some ways to get the video in and displayed, but I'm not sure those solutions would work with any video (ex. a game console) as they seem to need software.

Yeah, I have a BM eGPU, though I have it for quiet GPU power, not to drive a 5K display. But, again, my point wasn't to necessarily drive it at native rez. What I'm wondering is why Apple couldn't just add a HDMI input or whatever, and a scaler chip which would display any kind of device you plug in, whether it be 480p DVD player or 1080p game console or a PC with an Nvidia 3080, etc.

...
The way that I read the "...will have a starting price at or over $2,000" is that there's some internal contingent at Apple who understands how the original iMac Pro's high price killed it, so a little leak like this may help manipulate internal politics at Apple.
...

Of course, historically, Apple computers have sold for those much higher prices. It was really only after Jobs' comeback Apple were we saw the pro machines come into the price range of mere mortals. I hope we see that again, and Apple Silicon at least makes that possible. Where Apple decides to set those prices is now much more under their control.

But, the bigger problem, is that Apple need a solid middle or prosumer machine (that can run cool, quiet, and be competitive on CPU/GPU). They *should* certainly now be able to pull that off, but the question remains if they will. People have wanted a 'mini tower' type Mac for decades. Something between the laptops / consumer desktops and the Mac Pro.

A Mac mini with an eGPU was kind of that solution, although it still wasn't optimal as the mini really can't cool itself adequately. So long as Apple keeps trying to stuff everything into an enclosure that is only capable if cooling 80% of its performance capability, we'll never escape this problem.

Sure, high-end pros will want (and can afford) a Mac Pro. But there are a lot of us out here who want a reasonable level of performance, but don't have a Mac Pro budget. With PCs, we can get that. With Apple, it has been a constant battle of just barely making it. I really hope Apple fixed that, though they could have prior to Apple Silicon and never did either. The question is, do they want to?

I think they will use the exact same chips. There won't be any special desktop chips from Apple, only a range of chips with different features/performances which they will put in the devices they see fit.

Yeah, I think the iMac Pro naming makes sense just to differentiate it from the 'M1' version, just like the laptops. But, the legacy of the Intel iMac Pro kind of messes with it a bit. People in that came seem to assume it will be a Mac Pro in the all-in-one format. I'm doubting that will be the case.

But, given the cooling capacity and iMac should have, they should be able to make it outperform the laptops, or at least do so more quietly. A 27"+ iMac with the M1 Max and the right features and connectivity would be a pretty good machine. I fear people hoping it will be a lot more than that might be disappointed. But, maybe they'll go to 64 GPU cores? Or, is that going to be reserved for the Mac Pro. I'm kind of guessing the latter.

 

[smirking]

What I'm wondering is why Apple couldn't just add a HDMI input or whatever, and a scaler chip which would display any kind of device you plug in, whether it be 480p DVD player or 1080p game console or a PC with an Nvidia 3080, etc.

Given that it appears to be possible to do this through third party solutions, I'm going to make a wild guess and say that they intended for the viewing experience on an iMac to be at 5K resolutions and didn't want to support anything that would encourage the contrary. We know that once Apple decides things should be a certain way, it's in their DNA to drop legacy support and put maximum pressure on their extended ecosystem to evolve quickly.

Another possibility is that there's something in development and legacy support would complicate its implementation.

 

[SteveW928]

Given that it appears to be possible to do this through third party solutions, I'm going to make a wild guess and say that they intended for the viewing experience on an iMac to be at 5K resolutions and didn't want to support anything that would encourage the contrary. We know that once Apple decides things should be a certain way, it's in their DNA to drop legacy support and put maximum pressure on their extended ecosystem to evolve quickly.

Another possibility is that there's something in development and legacy support would complicate its implementation.

Probably more like, 'Why would anyone want to use anything on this beautiful display but MacOS?' (said with a British accent)

 

[smirking]

@SteveW928, have you seen this recent thread?
Connecting an Intel iMac to a M1Pro...is that possible?

I guess it may be possible to use a 5K iMac as a display if that iMac is being operated as a networked remote machine rather than just as a display.

 

[matram]

Rumor is Apple will combine the iMac 27" into the iMac Pro and the product line will be called the iMac Pro.

Using IBM's 2nm node process one 30cm² silicon wafer can yield nearly 10 trillion transistors.

Below are some transistor count estimates when TSMC's 2nm node process is expected to start in 2025.

Assuming raw performance remains linear then the 2025 iPhone Pro Max may have the raw performance between today's M1 Max & M1 Pro.

​

Form Factor (As of 6 Nov 2021)	Mac Pro iMac Pro	Mac mini Pro Mac Pro iMac Pro	MBP 14" MBP 16" Mac mini Pro iMac 24" iMac Pro	MBP 14" MBP 16" Mac mini Pro iMac 24"	MBA MBP 13" iMac 24" Mac mini 2021 iPad Pro	iPhone 13 iPhone 13 mini iPhone 13 Pro iPhone 13 Pro Max 2021 iPad Mini	300mm² Silicon Wafer
Apple silicon chip	M1 Max Jade-4C	M1 Max Jade-2C	M1 Max	M1 Pro	M1	A15	-
Transistors at TMSC's 5nm (2020) 173 million transistors per mm²	228 Billion	114 Billion	57 Billion	33.7 Billion	16 Billion	15 Billion	5.19 Trillion
Estimated Die Size	8.502cm²	6.377cm²	4.251cm²	2.513cm²	1.19cm²	1.116cm²	30cm²
Transistors at IBM's 2nm (2025) 333 million transistors per mm²	438.87 Billion	219.43 Billion	109.72 Billion	64.87 Billion	30.8 Billion	28.87 Billion	9.99 Trillion

Imagine a 1 square foot 2nm node process chip with nearly 10 trillion transistors in a Mac Pro?

I thought TSMC had a reticle limit of 815 mm2. Meaning that it would be difficult to fit Jade 4C?

 

[quarkysg]

I thought TSMC had a reticle limit of 815 mm2. Meaning that it would be difficult to fit Jade 4C?

Jade 4C is supposedly stitched together with 4 Mx Max dies. So 815 mm2 would be well within the limit of the Mx Max die.

 

[matram]

Jade 4C is supposedly stitched together with 4 Mx Max dies. So 815 mm2 would be well within the limit of the Mx Max die.

I would be interested to understand more. Do you mean we will see four ”chiplets” on a common substrate in one package?

 

[Adarna]

I thought TSMC had a reticle limit of 815 mm2. Meaning that it would be difficult to fit Jade 4C?

AMD used TMSC's chiplet tech to mask-stitch multiple dies together. A more advanced version of this tech may be implemented when stitching together 2-4 M1 Maxs together to have the potential of having performance of 2-4 AMD Ryzen 9 5950X desktop CPUs & Nvidia RTX 3080 dGPUs.

This would allow the pro desktop to be priced between $4,999-12,999 or even higher.

It is better explained in this video.

Below is the table with the omitted launched date and better data.

Check out the row on IBM's 2nm process. Assuming TMSC's 2nm process has similar densities then the 2025 iPhone, iPad Pro & Macs released later will have that many transistors assuming the die sizes remain the same. Transistor count is not the sole basis for performance per watt & raw performance improvements but it does provide a ballpark figure of what can be expected.

I hope Apple will never become as complacent or monopolistic as Intel as that company cared more about shareholder's value than delivering what they promised on their time table. This is the only reason why TSMC was able to give us 5nm process today while Intel just started 10nm.

​

Form Factor (As of 6 Nov 2021)​	Mac Pro iMac Pro​	Mac mini Pro Mac Pro iMac Pro​	MBP 14" MBP 16" Mac mini Pro iMac 24" iMac Pro​	MBP 14" MBP 16" Mac mini Pro iMac 24"​	MBA MBP 13" iMac 24" Mac mini 2021 iPad Pro​	iPhone 13 iPhone 13 mini iPhone 13 Pro iPhone 13 Pro Max 2021 iPad Mini​	300mm² Silicon Wafer​
Apple silicon chip​	M1 Max Jade-4C​	M1 Max Jade-2C​	M1 Max​	M1 Pro​	M1​	A15​	?​
Launch​	Q2 or Q4 2022​	Q2 or Q4 2022​	Q4 2021​	Q4 2021​	Q4 2020​	Q3 2021​	?​
Peak Quoted Transistor Densities using TMSC's 5nm (2020) at the same die size 171.3 million transistors per mm²​	228 Billion​	114 Billion​	57 Billion​	33.7 Billion​	16 Billion​	15 Billion​	5.19 Trillion​
Estimated Die Size​	8.502cm²​	6.3765cm²​	4.251cm²​	2.513cm²​	1.19cm²​	1.116cm²​	30cm²​
Peak Quoted Transistor Densities using IBM's 2nm (2025) at the same die size 333.33 million transistors per mm²​	443.66 Billion​	221.83 Billion​	110.92 Billion​	65.58 Billion​	31.13 Billion​	29.19 Billion​	10.1 Trillion​

The fellow above has some things right and wrong. Specifically about the iMac/iMac Pro. If the iMac Pro does come out it is very possible that Apple will offer M1 Max Duo with 20 CPU cores or Quadro with 40 CPU cores. I would not be surprised if Apple also offer these chips on the Mac mini.​

 

[ObliviousFool]

I think they will use the exact same chips. There won't be any special desktop chips from Apple, only a range of chips with different features/performances which they will put in the devices they see fit.

The Jade 4C-Die at the moment is the most powerful chip Apple will make in the foreseeable future. Do you really think they will put this one in the iMac already? I think the Mac Pro will have the most powerful chip only. maybe we will se the Jade 2C-Die in the iMac. I hope so.

I was just watching a Luke Miani video where he says as amazing at the M1 Max and Pro are, they are not stacking up that well against the new desktop Intel processors that would be available for iMac so in order for them to use Max or Pro in the iMac and have it be impressive they would need to string multiple together or come out with something completely different. Him talking, not me.

 

[SteveW928]

@SteveW928, have you seen this recent thread?
Connecting an Intel iMac to a M1Pro...is that possible?

I guess it may be possible to use a 5K iMac as a display if that iMac is being operated as a networked remote machine rather than just as a display.

Again, thanks. Interesting to see the different approaches and methods. But, I'm talking about just a standard video input... plug in any HDMI device kind of thing. Blu-ray player, gaming console, gaming PC, other Mac, etc.

 

[Juuro]

But, given the cooling capacity and iMac should have, they should be able to make it outperform the laptops, or at least do so more quietly. A 27"+ iMac with the M1 Max and the right features and connectivity would be a pretty good machine. I fear people hoping it will be a lot more than that might be disappointed. But, maybe they'll go to 64 GPU cores? Or, is that going to be reserved for the Mac Pro. I'm kind of guessing the latter.

If the cooling is better in the new iMac the performance will be marginally better, but other than a couple of points in Geekbench no one will notice. If they want to have 64 GPU cores they would need to use the Jade 2C-Die (2 x M1 Max). I hope they will put that one in the iMac.

The fellow above has some things right and wrong. Specifically about the iMac/iMac Pro. If the iMac Pro does come out it is very possible that Apple will offer M1 Max Duo with 20 CPU cores or Quadro with 40 CPU cores. I would not be surprised if Apple also offer these chips on the Mac mini.

The Jade 4C-Die with 40 CPU cores is the most high end chip of the M1 series. I can't imagine they will put that one in the iMac. It will be reserved for Mac Pro only.

I was just watching a Luke Miani video where he says as amazing at the M1 Max and Pro are, they are not stacking up that well against the new desktop Intel processors that would be available for iMac so in order for them to use Max or Pro in the iMac and have it be impressive they would need to string multiple together or come out with something completely different. Him talking, not me.

That's why I hope they will put the Jade 2C-Die (2 x M1 Max) in the iMac. At least a binned version of that package would make sense.

 

[Adarna]

The Jade 4C-Die with 40 CPU cores is the most high end chip of the M1 series. I can't imagine they will put that one in the iMac. It will be reserved for Mac Pro only.

Unlikely unless their goal is to have as low a volume as possible.

With only ~22.5 million Macs globally shipped in 2020 Apple needs to use every trick in the book to improve economies of scale.

The annual volume of the pro desktops would be ~225 thousand units globally.

The Jade-2C & 4C rumors has credence in light of TMSC's chiplet tech that mask-stitches chips together.

The volume of ~3 million 14" & 16" owners may help with the quarter million iMac Pro & Mac Pro annual units.

This is why the M1 is placed into 5 product lines. These signify ~80% of all Macs sold + the iPad Pros.

The M1 Pro & Max being placed in the MBP has more to do with parts constraints and I expect it to be placed into the high-end Mac mini & iMac 24" and 27" when bottlenecks are removed.

As the 14" has a 96W charger, the Mac mini a 150W PSU it can handle the two die Jade-2C (~100W) easily.

iMac 27" 300W PSU and iMac Pro 500W PSU that are all designed to power hotter & bigger Intel chips so either a Jade-2C (~100W) or Jade-4C (~200W) could be placed in easily.

 

[dave070]

The iMac Pro will likely be positioned for people who do serious photo and video work I think including many professionals. They'll still have the Mac Pro for studio work like special effects for movies or intensive video work.

 

[ipedro]

Interesting news, but why can't they work on more than one iMac at a time ?

They can, but why would they? This is marketing 101. Better to bask in the limelight over a longer time than to shine brighter for a moment. Why launch all products together where they have to compete for attention amongst themselves and split the focus when they can launch products steadily, obtain media focus multiple times and maintain the limelight for a longer period?

Apple is very good at this but that also makes them very predictable. Right now, they’re basking in the limelight with the MacBookPro and we should expect them to hold on to it for a few months. Once that begins to die down, some time early in the new year, the next product in the lineup will drop.

Some times they need a collection of smaller updates launched together to grab media attention but others, a single big launch like the MacBookPro and soon, the iMac, are going to demand being up there by themselves.

 

[anthonymoody]

Better to bask in the limelight

I'd also add that the sequencing here makes for great optics. Each new round of releases generates a whole new round of fantastic press. The M1-based hardware really wowed people at the time, with people cutting 4K footage on an Air without breaking a sweat. The Pro and Max are, more or less, 2x and 4x versions of the M1 in terms of overall performance, and the MBPs are leaving people with jaws on floors.

The Jade 2C and 4C versions in whatever combination of iMac, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro they release, are going yield yet another round of reviewers struggling to put the astonishing performance into context.

 

[Juuro]

Unlikely unless their goal is to have as low a volume as possible.

In all those chips the same die will be used. So the volume will be relatively great for a high end die. The only thing they would do in small quantities is the stacking of the dies into packages. But I think that's not the problem here.

iMac 27" 300W PSU and iMac Pro 500W PSU that are all designed to power hotter & bigger Intel chips so either a Jade-2C (~100W) or Jade-4C (~200W) could be placed in easily.

Just because the old iMac was capable of powering such kinds of chips does not mean the new iMac has to do the same. I just think it would be strange to have (almost) no performance advantage to the iMac with the Mac Pro.
The Mac Pro was always a low volume product. It is not a cash cow for Apple like the iPhone or the MacBook Air or even the MacBook Pro. It is a proof of concept. It is still there because it is the fastest Mac which is almost exclusively in the hands of real pros so they can vouch for Apple products. And it's simply a showcase for Apple where they put all on the line what they have. So the Mac Pro does not need to be high volume. It has just to be fast und useful for pros.