In a matter of generations is the English dialect changing significantly?

[Three141]

Note: I initially made this reply in another thread about cliches and decided it might be better with a different topic.

I was at the pool the other day and I saw this happening, so I walked over to the guard (20 something) and asked if (kids) sitting on the lane dividers was frowned upon? Does this question make sense to our young members? Would anyone say this is old person talk? The guard asked me what did I mean? I had to follow up with is it bad to sit on the lane dividers? He understood that and said yes.

This is somewhat beside the point of this particular post, but I also asked him what is the YMCA policy for kids playing in lap lanes, during times designated for swimming laps, when people were waiting to swim laps? He told me he had no clue... Hmm.

I mentioned it before (another time, another thread), but was at McDonald's today ordering a lunch and after everything I said, the response was no problem. That's really bothering me these days, because IMO as a rule, no problem should be reserved for instances when you are inconvienencing an employee or asking for something unusual, not on the menu. It should be assumed there is no problem ordering what's on the menu, or the voice in the box being able to produce what you order. Better replies would be yes, got it, absolutely, my pleasure, or say nothing unless there is an issue understanding the order.



Good to know, just verifying. I do know that other phrases have popped up during my life, with a first time hearing them. Such as my bad (my fault) and sick as in that's sick, which really means that's cool or great... I think.

I'm in my 30's but the first one 'frowned upon' I thought was common knowledge I think that might be a one-off.

Second one makes sense to me.

Third one I'm guilty of and I think I picked it up from our outsourced team in India, they often say "No problem" when complaining or telling them to fix something.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'm in my 30's but the first one 'frowned upon' I thought was common knowledge I think that might be a one-off.

Second one makes sense to me.

Third one I'm guilty of and I think I picked it up from our outsourced team in India, they often say "No problem" when complaining or telling them to fix something.

'Frowned upon' is perfectly acceptable (if somewhat correct) and yes - still used - English as spoken (and sometimes, written) This Side Of The Pond.

 

[Zombie Acorn]

I get solicited by a lot of millenial salespeople and I have no clue what language they speak. Everything is a ****ing cliche. No problem, circle back, core competency, move the needle, lots of moving parts, scalable, get your ducks in a row, drill down, take it offline, synergy, reach out, low hanging fruit, peel the onion.

I was in sales for many years rising to the VP level. As all our calls are recorded, I use these calls as training for our salespeople.

This post is our executive meetings in a nutshell.
[doublepost=1470617755][/doublepost]Only one that really bothers me is when someone pronounces "ask" as "axe"

 

[Slix]

I have a few issues regarding the English language in typing conversations (texting, email, forums).

One being when people flat out don't use punctuation after sentences or commas to indicate where a thought is heading. "I really want to come over but I don't know when I can I'll ask my mom" It's incredibly hard to read a sentence like that. Another example is not using a question mark, for instance, if I ask someone, "I'm going to leave soon," and they reply, "Where should I meet you" it just strikes me as lazy, and again, harder to read a sentence quickly without knowing right away that it's a question and not a statement without the indication of the question mark.

Granted, I grew up typing lik this all the time 2 ppl on iChat and stuff, at some point I realized it was much more proper and easier to understand and read if you use punctuation and proper sentence structure while typing, even if it's a quick text to a friend meeting them for lunch or something.

Also, to reply to the "Frowned upon" question, I'm 21 and I use that phrase all the time.

 

[senseless]

I have a few issues regarding the English language in typing conversations (texting, email, forums).

One being when people flat out don't use punctuation after sentences or commas to indicate where a thought is heading. "I really want to come over but I don't know when I can I'll ask my mom" It's incredibly hard to read a sentence like that. Another example is not using a question mark, for instance, if I ask someone, "I'm going to leave soon," and they reply, "Where should I meet you" it just strikes me as lazy, and again, harder to read a sentence quickly without knowing right away that it's a question and not a statement without the indication of the question mark.

Granted, I grew up typing lik this all the time 2 ppl on iChat and stuff, at some point I realized it was much more proper and easier to understand and read if you use punctuation and proper sentence structure while typing, even if it's a quick text to a friend meeting them for lunch or something.

Also, to reply to the "Frowned upon" question, I'm 21 and I use that phrase all the time.

I've seen entire paragraphs without punctuation and it makes the writer seem deranged.

 

[AngerDanger]

I've noticed some some people—myself included, unfortunately—starting sentences of with "I mean, …" followed by something that's usually pure pathos. It's one thing to follow up an abstract sentence with another starting with "I mean" to add clarity, but I've heard it used to start new tangents of thought. I think it's usually used to begin a sentence that might possibly be taken unfavorably.

I've also responded affirmatively while starting a sentence with "No". If somebody says something and seems unsure of themselves, I'll sometimes say "No, I agree …" I think there's an implicit "you don't need to be unsure because" between the "No" and the "I agree".

As for the OP, I'm both amazed that the life guard didn't know what @Huntn meant and that of all the issues to take with millennial influence on language, that is what started this thread. Or rather, lol @OP gettin lit af over fleek ****, fam.

 

[Roller]

I've noticed some some people—myself included, unfortunately—starting sentences of with "I mean, …" followed by something that's usually pure pathos. It's one thing to follow up an abstract sentence with another starting with "I mean" to add clarity, but I've heard it used to start new tangents of thought. I think it's usually used to begin a sentence that might possibly be taken unfavorably.

I've also responded affirmatively while starting a sentence with "No". If somebody says something and seems unsure of themselves, I'll sometimes say "No, I agree …" I think there's an implicit "you don't need to be unsure because" between the "No" and the "I agree".

As for the OP, I'm both amazed that the life guard didn't know what @Huntn meant and that of all the issues to take with millennial influence on language, that is what started this thread. Or rather, lol @OP gettin lit af over fleek ****, fam.

I've also noticed that many people begin sentences with "so," especially in conversation. It seems to have replaced "well" as an introductory word in many circles. I consciously try to avoid it, but I occasionally catch myself slipping up.

However, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as "ek cetera" for "et cetera," a malaprop that I often see used by well-educated speakers.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I was taught to write letters the old fashioned way; that is, by hand, with your address, their address and the date at the top of the page, a formal salutation, paragraphs, and a proper and respectful sign off - which, depending on the relationship you had with the person to whom you were writing, could vary in the degree of warmth you wished to convey.

Later still, I was allowed to - even encouraged to - use my mother's typewriter when writing letters.

The upshot of this is that this is how I write emails, too.

And, as for text-speak - I fully understand why and how it arose - but, as a writing style, it never really appealed to me. Thus, I write texts in proper sentences, to.

 

[Huntn]

I've noticed some some people—myself included, unfortunately—starting sentences of with "I mean, …" followed by something that's usually pure pathos. It's one thing to follow up an abstract sentence with another starting with "I mean" to add clarity, but I've heard it used to start new tangents of thought. I think it's usually used to begin a sentence that might possibly be taken unfavorably.

I've also responded affirmatively while starting a sentence with "No". If somebody says something and seems unsure of themselves, I'll sometimes say "No, I agree …" I think there's an implicit "you don't need to be unsure because" between the "No" and the "I agree".

As for the OP, I'm both amazed that the life guard didn't know what @Huntn meant and that of all the issues to take with millennial influence on language, that is what started this thread. Or rather, lol @OP gettin lit af over fleek ****, fam.

Why are you amazed? I was just asking how much is language changing. You don't think that's a worthy topic? I have no issues with millennials per se although no problem will always bug me but I'm resigned to it being said as the most common reply to any request regardless of the circumstances or setting.

 

[AngerDanger]

…

However, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as "ek cetera" for "et cetera," a malaprop that I often see used by well-educated speakers.

By far, the wackiest malapropism I've come across is "firstable". It's both a malapropism and a portmanteau (which I'm sure gets it on some academic list somewhere) of "First of all", and people actually use it.

Why are you amazed? I was just asking how much is language changing. You don't think that's a worthy topic? I have no issues with millennials per se although no problem will always bug me but I'm resigned to it being said as the most common reply to any request regardless of the circumstances or setting.

Ah, I don't think my tone came across properly. I mean, () it's definitely a worthy topic and one I'm surprised we haven't had a thread about before, but out of all the overt butcherings of english you had to choose from, you started us off with what seems to be a minor experience. It'd be like taking a murderer in to custody and only reprimanding them for jaywalking to the other side of the street to get to their target.

 

[Huntn]

By far, the wackiest malapropism I've come across is "firstable". It's both a malapropism and a portmanteau (which I'm sure gets it on some academic list somewhere) of "First of all", and people actually use it.



Ah, I don't think my tone came across properly. I mean, () it's definitely a worthy topic and one I'm surprised we haven't had a thread about before, but out of all the overt butcherings of english you had to choose from, you started us off with what seems to be a unique experience. It'd be like taking a murderer in to custody and only reprimanding them for jaywalking to the other side of the street to get to their target.

Ok, understood, but my example was not about butchering the language. It was about me wondering if my language was so dated that it was incomprehensible. Yes, this most likely was an isolated case interacting with this individual, but it surprised me.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I would add to the conversation in the thread that there appears to be blurring of the boundaries between spoken (more informal) English, and written English, with some young people confusing the two, especially when, how and where to use each of them.

Actually, reading letters from my grandparents - and others - I have been struck by the perfect grammar, legible handwriting, and flawless spelling of those who penned letters from a century or more ago. Even people who left school at 14, had - as was said on those days - 'a fair hand'.

Unfortunately, nowadays, even some with college degrees find it difficult to express themselves clearly and grammatically correctly on paper.

 

[senseless]

Time to recycle obsolete phrases. I'm bringing back "how was your crossing" for friends traveling overseas.

 

[Roller]

By far, the wackiest malapropism I've come across is "firstable". It's both a malapropism and a portmanteau (which I'm sure gets it on some academic list somewhere) of "First of all", and people actually use it.

I've never heard of this one. I probably wouldn't have understood what the speaker meant had I heard it, so thanks!

I suspect that this is an result of the way that people sometimes learn new words and phrases. If a listener misheard the phrase "first of all" in conversation, I imagine that it could enter their spoken vocabulary as "firstable."

 

[63dot]

There are words that come and go. Winningest was once used in the ghetto much like the term phat but it caught on and you may see it used on ESPN. I used to use it as slang but now it's proper.

Musicality is a rather new word but as a musician I don't use it, nor do I use bad or badass, but if I did that would be phat ass bukkake cillin not illin talent dog.

 

[Clix Pix]

What I don't like is the trend of making nouns into verbs -- i.e., "gift" (customarily a noun) has somehow become a verb and seems to have replaced the perfectly good word "give." Another trend I have noticed recently is the word "adult" suddenly being used in a new way: "adulting." Instead of saying, "I'm tired of being the adult," I've seen people say, "So, I'm tired of adulting now -- kids are in bed, it's me-time now."

 

[pat500000]

maybe..."what it do?"

 

[Scepticalscribe]

What I don't like is the trend of making nouns into verbs -- i.e., "gift" (customarily a noun) has somehow become a verb and seems to have replaced the perfectly good word "give." Another trend I have noticed recently is the word "adult" suddenly being used in a new way: "adulting." Instead of saying, "I'm tired of being the adult," I've seen people say, "So, I'm tired of adulting now -- kids are in bed, it's me-time now."

Yes, this development has been a source of considerable frustration for me.

In common with yourself, I must admit that I don't like it - at all - and deplore this trend. Moreover, I agree that the existing words - such as 'give' - are perfectly good and functional verbs and don't need replacing.

I suspect that the initial use of the noun 'gift' - when it was first transplanted into being a verb - was possibly a knowing ironical reference, stressing the strange (as it then was) verb by not mentioning the noun except in a manner guaranteed to draw subtle, and possibly knowing, attention to it.

However, its usage in this context has become so widespread that any shades of irony have been long lost.

 

[63dot]

What I don't like is the trend of making nouns into verbs -- i.e., "gift" (customarily a noun) has somehow become a verb and seems to have replaced the perfectly good word "give." Another trend I have noticed recently is the word "adult" suddenly being used in a new way: "adulting." Instead of saying, "I'm tired of being the adult," I've seen people say, "So, I'm tired of adulting now -- kids are in bed, it's me-time now."

I used to get mad at all the changes but these days if it becomes generally accepted, then I start to use it.

Some spellchecking programs still don't recognize "Microsoft" or "online" and those two words are universally understood by everybody.

 

[Clix Pix]

Another strange usage (born on the internet, I believe) is saying "I heart" instead of "I love." AIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I've never heard of this one. I probably wouldn't have understood what the speaker meant had I heard it, so thanks!

I suspect that this is an result of the way that people sometimes learn new words and phrases. If a listener misheard the phrase "first of all" in conversation, I imagine that it could enter their spoken vocabulary as "firstable."

Excellent example.

Of course, increasingly, people read a lot less, and thus, very often, fail to even see how the word is supposed to be spelt.

And, as you have pointed out, if they mishear it when they first encounter it, they are likely to misspell it too, because what they heard is not what was said.

Mind you, much of my vocabulary are from books; there were words I used - in writing, and later in speech, which I mispronounced because I had never heard them spoken although I knew what they meant and used them readily. For example, as a teenager, I remember mangling the word 'ubiquitous' until I heard someone actually use it in speech.

There are words that come and go. Winningest was once used in the ghetto much like the term phat but it caught on and you may see it used on ESPN. I used to use it as slang but now it's proper.

Musicality is a rather new word but as a musician I don't use it, nor do I use bad or badass, but if I did that would be phat ass bukkake cillin not illin talent dog.

Badass I rather like; perhaps because I came to it when it was used to describe Pam Grier in Jackie Brown.

Another strange usage (born on the internet, I believe) is saying "I heart" instead of "I love." AIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Good grief.

Is there any way to cull such monstrosities?

 

[Roller]

Another strange usage (born on the internet, I believe) is saying "I heart" instead of "I love." AIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

In the U.S., the heart symbol was famously used as a surrogate for "love" in the "I [heart symbol] NY" campaign, and it again gained prominence from the 2004 movie "I Heart Huckabees" in 2004. I don't recall hearing it in spoken form much, if at all. I would cringe if I did, though.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

In the U.S., the heart symbol was famously used as a surrogate for "love" in the "I [heart symbol] NY" campaign, and it again gained prominence from the 2004 movie "I Heart Huckabees" in 2004. I don't recall hearing it in spoken form much, if at all. I would cringe if I did, though.

Thanks for a fantastic explanation for a horrible way of abusing an already over used word.

I used to cringe whenever I saw those heart signs on anything, - cheap tat for tourists, I thought. But that this has now metamorphosed into a word......a perfectly good noun twisted by fashion and fate into a cringe inducing verb. Shudders.

 

[63dot]

A graphic design studio entrepreneur and art professor came up with heart logo in the NY shirts, posters, and mugs. It may be good or awful, but it's not easy to forget.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Glaser
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Glaser


http://www.sva.edu/faculty/milton-glaser

 

[MechaSpanky]

Mind you, much of my vocabulary are from books; there were words I used - in writing, and later in speech,

Scepticalscribe,

Maybe it is a difference between American English and UK English but isn't "vocabulary" in the way you used it uncountable (or a non-count noun)?

Mecha