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Heh....wow. Entertaining. Carry on...:eek:

Well apparently econgeek is in good company...

http://www.shufflegazine.com/2009/11/08/nvidia-ceo-visiting-dubai-says-im-all-apple/

Nvidia CEO said:
... Intel wants to standardize the technology that computer manufacturers use and computer manufacturers, like Apple, wants to differentiate. Mr Huang said “Apple wants to differentiate. So inside your MacBook is a NVIDIA chipset. Because Apple wants to build fundamentally different computers than just the Intel platform. They want to add value.”

Mr Huang said that in his home they’re “all Apple.” According to him “Apple uses the best technology for their [computers]. Apple says to their customers: if you buy a computer from us you can be sure we have selected the best technology inside for you. That is their promise to consumers. Their promise to consumers isn’t we’ve selected the best technology for you with the exception of what Intel allows us to use. That’s not their promise. And that’s why Apple uses the best technology where they want whenever they want. And that’s why I’m all Apple! At home it’s just Macs everywhere. It’s NVIDIA’s technology in all of them but I use Macs. My son has two Macs, my daughter has a Mac, there’s an extra Mac just in case and my wife has a Mac. It’s just Mac, Mac, Mac! Because I know it’s got the best stuff inside.”

Well maybe something interesting will come of the PA Semi acquisition for Macs and not just iPhone/iPods...

B
 
The $799 mini is a decent machine, but I can get similar power and more utility from a refurbished MacBook.

The fastest processor in the mini today is a 2.66 GHz Core2Duo, slower than the 2.8 GHz Core2Duo in my MBP.

The base model Dell XPS 8000 w/ i5 processor is $699 and is comparable CPU/RAM/storage wise with the $1999 27" iMac.

That is one bad comparison. Either you you are very bad at comparison shopping, or you're just being ignorant.

I'll use Canadian prices. The Apple Mini is 649$, base model, with a 2.26 ghz Core2Duo (3MB cache, 1066 mhz FSB), Wireless-N, Gigabit ethernet, 2 display output ports, 160 GB HD, Superdrive with dual layer support.

If you look at comparable Dells (no, the XPS 8000 is not it...), we see they sell a SFF PC called the Studio Hybrid. Let's see how much a comparable configuration costs. It starts at 499$, but :

- We need to bump up the processor to 2.2 ghz (800 mhz FSB, 2 MB cache... not even equivalent, we'd need the 150$ extra T8100 to get something somewhat equivalent).
- Bump Vista to at least home premium (even though OS X is more like Ultimate)
- Bump up RAM to 2 GB (1 GB at 499$)
- Add Wireless-N

Total : 748$, 100$ more expensive and not even catching up to the 649$ Mini. It would require an extra 339$ to catch up to the 649$ mini...

So yeah, the mini is soooooooooo over-priced....
 
That is one bad comparison. Either you you are very bad at comparison shopping, or you're just being ignorant.

I'll use Canadian prices. The Apple Mini is 649$, base model, with a 2.26 ghz Core2Duo (3MB cache, 1066 mhz FSB), Wireless-N, Gigabit ethernet, 2 display output ports, 160 GB HD, Superdrive with dual layer support.

If you look at comparable Dells (no, the XPS 8000 is not it...), we see they sell a SFF PC called the Studio Hybrid. Let's see how much a comparable configuration costs. It starts at 499$, but :

- We need to bump up the processor to 2.2 ghz (800 mhz FSB, 2 MB cache... not even equivalent, we'd need the 150$ extra T8100 to get something somewhat equivalent).
- Bump Vista to at least home premium (even though OS X is more like Ultimate)
- Bump up RAM to 2 GB (1 GB at 499$)
- Add Wireless-N

Total : 748$, 100$ more expensive and not even catching up to the 649$ Mini. It would require an extra 339$ to catch up to the 649$ mini...

So yeah, the mini is soooooooooo over-priced....
Where an SFF machine is concerned, the mini shines. If I wanted an HTPC or a carputer, the mini would be on the top of my list.

The problem with your comparison is that I and many others don't WANT an SFF machine as a desktop, because it is not cost effective. I'd like to be able to throw in a cheap 1 TB or larger 3.5" drive (and no, the $999 2x500 GB 2.5" mini server ain't it). I can do that in an iMac or Mac Pro, but not a Mini or Dell Studio Hybrid.

the only computers I have bought in the past four years are an iBook G4, an iMac, a unibody MB and my MBP. They were all great machines at the time of purchase and I gladly paid the very small premium for each of them compared to an equivalent PC notebook. in all of those cases from factor was a significant factor in my decision process.

If form factor was an issue for a desktop purchase, I'd consider something like the Studio Slim. $529 for a Q8300/2GB/500GB machine.

The $699 XPS 8000 will spank it though.

EDIT: I don't think you have a good feel for how fast the i5 and i7 processors can be.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html

See the i5 750 up there near the top at #5? Now look for the base Mac mini's P8400, see it down by #40?

I'm really glad they're in the high end iMacs, so when I am in the market for a large screen I can get my computer along for the ride.

B
 
- Apple has every right to remove Atom support from the OS, especially since they're not using it. I would like to know if that saved them anything, or if it was code added to protect their OS, just as they do with the Palm-Pre in iTunes.

1. There is a very small amount of code that is specific to the processor. Like code to enter sleep mode, change the clock rate down, atomic operations etc. Not very much, but it is the kind of code that is very hard to get exactly right and that might not work if you use it on a different processor. It would make sense if the OS refuses to boot on any processor where this code is not well-tested, which means any processor that is not used in a Macintosh model sold by Apple. On the other hand, working around this would be no DMCA violation because the purpose of this is not to prevent illegal copying.

2. All Macintosh models sold by Apple support SSE3 (I think the very first Intel Macs shipped only to customers didn't, but I may be wrong). Mac software can therefore assume that SSE3 is present. This can be overcome by emulating SSE3 if not supported; such software would run awfully slow on the wrong processor. The Atom chips support SSE3.

3. Apple clearly has the right to stop anyone from using an unlicensed copy of MacOS X. So even though there are reasonable technical reasons (not very strong, but reasonable) to stop MacOS X from working on an Atom processor, there are also perfectly reasonable licensing reasons to do so. Some posters here have claimed that Apple lost their right to tell people not to use MacOS X on a non-Mac computer because Apple takes no action against such use.
 
Who gives a rat a$$ about Apple bottom line?

I believe he was arguing that Apple would lose money on turning away hackintosh users. It's not about caring for Apple's bottom line, it's about estimating what this hackintosh segment means to it.
 
Blah, blah, blah...

Safari's much snappier.;)
 

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MacOS X 10.6 officially supports:

Intel Core Solo
Intel Core Duo
Intel Core2Duo
Intel Xeon

The actual hardware IDs show many more models - Merom/Penryn for example.


All-in-ones can't compete outside of Apple against minitowers.

The don't compete within Apple as well - Apple realizes that minitowers are much more popular than all-in-ones, so Apple doesn't offer a mini-tower.


There's always 32-bit versions of Windows 7. x64 on Atom is feature to upsell on as well. It's a very low margin product.

This should be the last time out for 32-bit operating systems. I don't see any complaints about OS X's 32-bit support "cruft".

Microsoft has stated that the next version of Windows will not support 32-bit processors. The current "Windows 7 Server" (officially known as "Windows Server 2008 R2") is x64 only.


Its called the Mac Mini. There's no reason Apple should make a mini-tower. That market segment is covered by the iMac and the Mini. IF you want a tower, get a low end Mac Pro.

Hmmm. Entry Mac Pro $2499. Dell i7 minitower less than $800.

Say what?


The only parts that are Apple's are the lobo and enclosure/risers.

Is the "lobo" what the Mac fans need in order to think that Apples are a better deal?


I saw a consumer level Western Digital Green drive in the last Time Capsule take apart. :p

Apple has its own definition of "server grade" that doesn't map to any disk manufacturers' definition.
_________________

Wow. This thread is over-the-top even without the notorious MS-paid astroturfer AidenShaw making any comments. ;)
 
So what do you think it is if not intentional?

Could be leak finding?
developer program getting these seeds is all under NDA.

So take out support for Atom which isn't going to effect paid up user but is going to get noticed, for half the program. Then Half of leak group, then half again, some time during 10.6.5 development we will here of some boby being kicked out of the program.
 
Damn.

If Apple doesn't want us to Hackintosh, the least they should do is come out with a:

10" MacBook Air !
 
It's really amazing to me that people have such strong opinions about the computer industry and don't seem to really have a basic grasp of how computers work or what goes into them.

Apple NEVER SUPPORTED the Atom processor, officially, so there's no way they could "drop support" for it.

The REASON Apple does things the way it does is to make sure the product quality is superior to everything out there in the market.

Even though Apple doesn't officially support this processor, its highly likely that they have unofficially made sure the OS runs on it.

You guys have obviously never worked on an operating system. You act as if its trivial for Apple to support or not-support a particular architecture and as if it doesn't support hardware that hasn't ever shipped in a MAc that they must be doing this because they're big meanies. This is the thanks you give to Apple for the unofficial support they've given for non-supported hardware over the years?

It takes effort to make the OS run on so many different random combinations of hardware, and the cost of that is the reason Apple doesn't license the OS to cloners.

Finally, this is a BETA we're talking about. You shouldn't even know about it, or be talking about it unless you're in the developer program and SIGNED AN NDA.

You have NO RIGHT to bitch about a beta and talk about how bad apple is because some beta release doesn't work on some hardware combination.

Of course, when it ships and it does work on the Atom, you'll claim that your outcry caused them to change their mind. :rolleyes:

Frankly, to the extent that Apple is not swayed by the opinions of users, this kind of crap is all the justification they need.

If you're running OS X on unsupported hardware and you are mad if Apple releases an OS with bugs or that doesn't run on that hardware--- you're being unreasonable.

You want to hack OSX to run on your hardware, fine, that's YOUR problem. You're breaking the license agreement anyway, violating apple's rights and you thus lose the right to bitch.

Apple makes OS X free as an open source project under Darwin. That's ported and supported by the community. But that's not sufficient, you want the UI layer, and all the software that Apple spends time making special features for.

But you don't want to pay to buy the hardware that is half of the engineering effort for those features. You don't get to complain.

Software and hardware are inextricably related. Apple controls both sides and is able to innovate. The idea that Macs and PCs are the same is asinine. Macs can run windows, but not all PCs can or should be able to run OS X.

To limit OS X like that would be to limit Apple's ability to compete.

IF they break Atom compatibility with this release, tough. You don't get to characterize apple as being mean or even doing this deliberately-- after all, Atom was NEVER SUPPORTED. Thus its impossible for them to "DROP SUPPORT".

And dishonest to characterize it like that.

You have made a lot of wrong assumptions in your post, put words into the mouths of the people in favour of hackintoshes and haven't bothered to read the thread.

Apple not supporting other platforms is an admittance on their half that they can't compete with Windows directly, so they have to go down the "luxury item" path. Not everybody is fooled by the oft repeated phrase "seemless integration of hardware and software" because we know that is marketing nonsense. There is nothing in OSX that is enhanced by running it on Apple's own hardware alone, it merely gives Apple an easily recognisable brand that they can differentiate from other PC manufacturers. People like yourself pay a lot of money for your computer and can't stand to see that underneath the shiny case is a pretty average PC.
 
Hardware cost is NOT the total cost of ownership.

Why Danish Police High Tech Control Center runs on Apple Computers
http://obamapacman.com/2009/10/danish-police-high-tech-control-center-runs-on-apple-computers/
How many places do you think Obama visits where security is run by PCs? Since he's not dead and I haven't heard of any attempts on his life so far, I imagine the PCs are doing their job.

Also those are certainly not Apple displays being used there. Just goes to show, even when an organisation is pro Mac Apple's range of hardware and prices lets them down.
 
Apple has never officially supported the Atom processsor with ANY build on Mac OS X.

MacOS X 10.6 officially supports:

Intel Core Solo
Intel Core Duo
Intel Core2Duo
Intel Xeon

and they've dropped support for G4 and G5 PowerPC

None of these low-power, non-core intel processors are supported, since none of them are used in Apple machines. They should absolutely jail these people who are illegally installing OS X on PC non-supported hardware, afterall, it is a crime to do so.

And probably everyone who has illegally installed 10.5 Leo via hack on a low powered unsuported G4 as well???

The real depressing thing: What these evil hackintoshers are doing with their Atom netbooks is still 1000 times better than what Apple has to offer in the segment of ultra-portable notebooks with full blown OS – which is absolutely nothing!

There are three things I absolutely despise about Apple:
1. The barn-door size gaps in their model line (i.e. small footprint notebooks and mid-size towers) which leaves many us with a dreadful Windows PC as the only legal alternative.
2. Their stubborn refusal to implement even widely established standards like bluray, while still having the audacity to proclaim their leadership in video content creation. Again a situation that forces many content producers to use the Windows platform.
3. The stupid arrogance and blind sheepishness of Apple fanboys and evangelicals.
 
And probably everyone who has illegally installed 10.5 Leo via hack on a low powered unsuported G4 as well???

The real depressing thing: What these evil hackintoshers are doing with their Atom netbooks is still 1000 times better than what Apple has to offer in the segment of ultra-portable notebooks with full blown OS – which is absolutely nothing!

There are three things I absolutely despise about Apple:
1. The barn-door size gaps in their model line (i.e. small footprint notebooks and mid-size towers) which leaves many us with a dreadful Windows PC as the only legal alternative.
2. Their stubborn refusal to implement even widely established standards like bluray, while still having the audacity to proclaim their leadership in video content creation. Again a situation that forces many content producers to use the Windows platform.
3. The stupid arrogance and blind sheepishness of Apple fanboys and evangelicals.

overview_hero1_20090608.png
 
Excellent!!! I hope Apple succeeds in getting rid of all of these useless Hackintosh users. They are not customers of Apple and they just make useless justifications as to why they think they should have the RIGHT to install OS X on non-Apple hardware. GO APPLE!! Get rid of the fake Mac users.

I guess I'm a "useless Hackintosh user" by, going first buying a Mac Mini, then iMac, then trying a Dell Mini9 and 10v Hackintosh (for portability and cost purposes for the kiddies), and then most recently a MacBook Pro. I agree, a larger than you think percentage of Hackintosh users are Mac owners or soon to be Mac owners. Besides, most guides out there require a Mac anyway for installing OS X on a non Apple machine.
 
The truth is, Apple locked out the netbooks, a market they didn't even have. So how did they lose money? They don't. Meanwhile, normal hackintoshes continue to thrive, eg Psystar's computers. So apple pissed off the people who may upgrade to a proper mac, while leaving the people who didn't want pay for a real mac alone. Brilliant.

What part of small footprint don't you get?
 
The truth is, Apple locked out the netbooks, a market they didn't even have. So how did they lose money? They don't. Meanwhile, normal hackintoshes continue to thrive, eg Psystar's computers. So apple pissed off the people who may upgrade to a proper mac, while leaving the people who didn't want pay for a real mac alone. Brilliant.


What part of small footprint don't you get?

Oversight. So all of it.
 
My Dell Mini 9 is what I use on my way to work. It fits in my pocket for the most part and is easy to use on a cramped train. I tried using my MBP but it was just too big.

You must have a very high tolerance for bad trackpads then. I have a colleague with a Dell Mini 9v that he installed OS/X on, but the trackpad was just painful to use, and if you plugged in a mouse, the system would lock up when it came out of hibernation.
 
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