Intel Begins Shipping First Kaby Lake Processors, but Most Macs Won't Get Them Until 2017

[keysofanxiety]

Ah I see. The extra expensive model.
Well as long as the numbers are worth it to you.

The point isn't the price of Macs (again, another thing widely criticised during this thread, myself included).

The fact is that there isn't a flagship mobile CPU more powerful that currently ships. Quite the opposite. As such, a large majority of the criticisms regarding new chips not being fitted in mobile MacBook Pros are rendered completely moot. That was the point all along.

Best wishes & hope you have a great evening.

 

[PizzaBoxStyle]

So now that Apple say it in a Keynote, you throw away your Macs? I honestly find it amazing how their words have so much impact sometimes.
They're not going to give up on Macs, but it will be a so what niche market in the perspective of the entire market they sell to - Steve Jobs said that over 6 years ago.

They haven't just said it in a keynote, they have been showing us by doing by not updating their product lines all that well lately. Go look at the buyers guide!

I'm not throwing my Mac away, I'm upgrading and migrating away from it. Current daily driver is a 13" rMBP (Late 2013). Has served its purpose, but less than three years later, it can't drive a 4K display properly (@ 60 hz), the graphics performance sucked from the second I first turned it on and really this machine has always felt laggy and still does to this day. I loaded it down when I bought it thinking I would be happy with it for next next 5-6 years, but have ended up disappointed because of the aforementioned. Take this experience, plus the kind of shenanigans that the buyers guide exposes, Tim Cook's Mac-dignifing "vision" quote and the expiration of my machine's AppleCare warranty and... I think I'm at a logical point to step away from the Mac.

Sounds like @Osty wasn't planning on throwing anything away at all, but just move their primary usage away from the Mac and to the iPad. Exactly what Tim Cook wants.

I don't really see a future for the Mac at this point. Even as a niche product. It really looks to me like the sun is setting on at least half of the Mac lineup. Few things that might survive this culling are a reduced lineup of a single iMac config, the MacBook one and 15" MacBook Pro.

So for me, the best thing to do is move on to a different computing platform and keep an iPad around to, again, be my window into the Apple world. Eventually this same reality is gonna hit more and more people here in our corner of the web. iPad Pro with a physical keyboard isn't all that bad if you can get your work/tasks completed on a system that restricted. Windows 10 really isn't all that bad. Linux is a pretty darn good UNIX-like OS.

But by all means, keep fighting the people who have control over the future of the Mac. See where it gets you in two or three more years of this.

 

[headcartoon]

During Intel's second quarter earnings call yesterday afternoon, Intel CEO Brian Krzanich told investors and reporters that Intel has begun shipping the first of its 7th Generation Core processors, known as Kaby Lake.

Kaby Lake is the third member of the 14-nanometer process, following Broadwell and Skylake. It is the first processor Intel has released since announcing the company will no longer adhere to the "tick-tock" processor release cycle, which saw it alternating between shrinking chip fabrication processes and building new architectures each year.

Intel's last two chip releases have been plagued with long delays, and moving away from the tick-tock cycle will allow it to push out new chip updates on a regular basis. Apple's Macs, such as the Retina MacBook Pro and the iMac, have been impacted by Intel's chip delays over the last few years, resulting in long periods of time between updates and unusual update cycles.

Kaby Lake is a semi-tock with optimized microarchitecture, offering support for Thunderbolt 3, native USB 3.1, and DisplayPort 1.2. Krzanich did not offer details on which chips have started shipping, but an old Intel roadmap suggests low-power Core M chips and U-series chips with GT2 graphics (likely not suitable for the MacBook Air) will be the first to ship out.

Kaby Lake chips appropriate for the Retina MacBook Pro, the machine everyone is most curious about, may not launch until the very end of 2016 or the beginning of 2017 and thus may not be released in time for inclusion in this year's rumored update.

Article Link: Intel Begins Shipping First Kaby Lake Processors, but Most Macs Won't Get Them Until 2017

[doublepost=1469228984][/doublepost]Apple needs to use AMD. Intel chips are laggy on the up-start. Don't accidentally launch the wrong application! What a hassle trying to close and reopen the intended application. Intel = DogAss

 

[ThaRuler]

Cannon Lake or bust

 

[nt5672]

Is anybody out there really maxing out there tech? Really constantly putting it to the test, no nobody is in my opinion. Short spurts of intense use and then you cruise for a while. The chips in the iphone are never really maxed out and yet some can't wait for the next gen, but why? Newer really isn't always better!

Yes, some of us do more than texting, Facebook, twitter, occasional spreadsheet, and email.
[doublepost=1469230924][/doublepost]

Apple never had a real Pro line, just a Pro line name to make consumers feel "Pro". At core components they were always behind, except for few small consumer interfaces. Real Pros do not use Apple. You won't see any engineers building the next Boing Airplane or BMW Car or next Space Station or an Sky Skaper on Apple devices. Not even the milling machines they use are controlled by Apple devices, they are controlled by Windows boxes.

Apple is pure consumer oriented. Spec wise their pro "line" is a joke.

Yes, but the sad point that people want to make is that Apple software is better and if they committed to a real Pro line of hardware people would switch in a heartbeat or as soon as the major software suppliers recompiled their products.

 

[brentsg]

Ah I see. The extra expensive model.
Well as long as the numbers are worth it to you.

The point is that the model you cited has one of Intel's slower iGPU's. Using that is going to be a downgrade for sake of being newer.

And I keep seeing people mention that "Skylake supports Thunderbolt 3". Skylake requires a separate Alpine Ridge controller to support this, it's not natively supported.
[doublepost=1469231473][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1469228984][/doublepost]Apple needs to use AMD. Intel chips are laggy on the up-start. Don't accidentally launch the wrong application! What a hassle trying to close and reopen the intended application. Intel = DogAss

I don't even know how to respond to this. It makes no sense and has no basis in reality.

 

[lowkey]

Real Pros do not use Apple. You won't see any engineers building the next Boing Airplane or BMW Car or next Space Station or an Sky Skaper on Apple devices. Not even the milling machines they use are controlled by Apple devices, they are controlled by Windows boxes.

Apple is pure consumer oriented. Spec wise their pro "line" is a joke.

Architects are Pros. We are a PROfession. I'm sharing an office with another firm of 40 who are exclusively Apple. Cheese Grater Mac Pro servers with 40 27" iMacs running Archicad.

The office I just moved out of shared with a Digital Design firm. They have done some massive projects and sold their algorithms to Twiiter for tens of millions. They are pros. They are all Apple. Both directors have rMBs. The employees iMacs and rMBPs.

The new office I'm moving to in August is with another architecture firm all running Revit on Windows...on 27" iMacs.

So I don't know about "space stations" , but there are certainly "sky skrapers" designed and documented on Macs.

And there are plenty of professionals using Apple. Real Pros, who do real work rather than complain about chip specifications.

 

[Appleaker]

They haven't just said it in a keynote, they have been showing us by doing by not updating their product lines all that well lately. Go look at the buyers guide!

I'm not throwing my Mac away, I'm upgrading and migrating away from it. Current daily driver is a 13" rMBP (Late 2013). Has served its purpose, but less than three years later, it can't drive a 4K display properly (@ 60 hz), the graphics performance sucked from the second I first turned it on and really this machine has always felt laggy and still does to this day. I loaded it down when I bought it thinking I would be happy with it for next next 5-6 years, but have ended up disappointed because of the aforementioned. Take this experience, plus the kind of shenanigans that the buyers guide exposes, Tim Cook's Mac-dignifing "vision" quote and the expiration of my machine's AppleCare warranty and... I think I'm at a logical point to step away from the Mac.

Sounds like @Osty wasn't planning on throwing anything away at all, but just move their primary usage away from the Mac and to the iPad. Exactly what Tim Cook wants.

I don't really see a future for the Mac at this point. Even as a niche product. It really looks to me like the sun is setting on at least half of the Mac lineup. Few things that might survive this culling are a reduced lineup of a single iMac config, the MacBook one and 15" MacBook Pro.

So for me, the best thing to do is move on to a different computing platform and keep an iPad around to, again, be my window into the Apple world. Eventually this same reality is gonna hit more and more people here in our corner of the web. iPad Pro with a physical keyboard isn't all that bad if you can get your work/tasks completed on a system that restricted. Windows 10 really isn't all that bad. Linux is a pretty darn good UNIX-like OS.

But by all means, keep fighting the people who have control over the future of the Mac. See where it gets you in two or three more years of this.

I know, you both said you would be keeping Macs for other purposes. My point was about your view that Apple is moving on from the Mac. While I agree that it will become a niche market, they won't kill it off and will mainly reduce the lineup on desktop if anything (with the exception of the MacBook Air). And that won't be happening this year as you seem to suggest - delayed updates have reasons, although I can't see a reason for the Mac mini other than lack of interest.
iPad has always been a replacement for peoples primary consumer device, and that number is growing as Apple add more functionality and larger models. The difference is now, that figure is creeping into the MR user base. And with the help of statements made by Phil Schiller and Tim Cook, that number is growing as more people are finding that it works for them.
You don't have control of the future of the Mac and I was not fighting you, simply saying that Apple is not going to ditch the Mac anytime soon.

 

[Osty]

So now that Apple say it in a Keynote, you throw away your Macs? I honestly find it amazing how their words have so much impact sometimes.

He's running the show.

Sounds like @Osty wasn't planning on throwing anything away at all, but just move their primary usage away from the Mac and to the iPad. Exactly what Tim Cook wants

Thanks @PizzaBoxStyle, I'm not throwing anything out. The Mac still has a place in my house, albeit not as my daily driver but more as a shared, specialist. I won't be buying a MacBook again. The iPad is my primary personal device.

I'll keep the Mac mini until it dies and I can no longer service it myself.

 

[Zellio]

He's running the show.



Thanks @PizzaBoxStyle, I'm not throwing anything out. The Mac still has a place in my house, albeit not as my daily driver but more as a shared, specialist. I won't be buying a MacBook again. The iPad is my primary personal device.

I'll keep the Mac mini until it dies and I can no longer service it myself.

I agree with you. It's hard to convince myself to get a new macbook pro when pc manufacturers have made leaps and bounds in the trackpad department (Which was really their main Achilles heel). Plus with all the 'pro' shenanigans going on recently, I don't trust Tim Crook enough to not find underhanded ways to raise the macs prices.

My last Mac will probably be this current 5k iMac (Not that I'd need one for years mind you, this was meant as a workstation and work in general (no gaming), and it does everything perfectly). I'll keep my older ones though

 

[Wildkraut]

Architects are Pros. We are a PROfession. I'm sharing an office with another firm of 40 who are exclusively Apple. Cheese Grater Mac Pro servers with 40 27" iMacs running Archicad.

The office I just moved out of shared with a Digital Design firm. They have done some massive projects and sold their algorithms to Twiiter for tens of millions. They are pros. They are all Apple. Both directors have rMBs. The employees iMacs and rMBPs.

The new office I'm moving to in August is with another architecture firm all running Revit on Windows...on 27" iMacs.

So I don't know about "space stations" , but there are certainly "sky skrapers" designed and documented on Macs.

And there are plenty of professionals using Apple. Real Pros, who do real work rather than complain about chip specifications.

Yeah, few exceptions exist, but the majority use Windows with Autocad, Revit for Arch works. The industry standard to render arch pre-visualizations is 3dsmax with Maxwell Render or Vray on Windows. Running Windows on a Mac makes no sense. Sounds like a wrong hardware buy to me, because there are much better devices, for the same money, to run Windows on for Arch works. e.g Certified Hardware with Nvidia Quadros and 64gb or 128gb ram, and ram is never enough for such kind of work.

BMW here uses Catia and Creo (a.k.a. Pro/Engineer), both Windows only Applications, too.

 

[lowkey]

Sorry. I thought your argument was "Real Pros don't use Apple". That's obviously false and basically just trolling. Many real pros use Apple.

I guess what you meant was "I think Windows and PC hardware is better"? Or maybe "More people use Revit than Archicad"?

There is a reason why many professional designers prefer Apple hardware. It's because it's well designed.

Yeah, few exceptions exist, but the majority use Windows with Autocad, Revit for Arch works. The industry standard to render arch pre-visualizations is 3dsmax with Maxwell Render or Vray on Windows. Running Windows on a Mac makes no sense. Sounds like a wrong hardware buy to me, because there are much better devices, for the same money, to run Windows on for Arch works. e.g Certified Hardware with Nvidia Quadros and 64gb or 128gb ram, and ram is never enough for such kind of work.

BMW here uses Catia and Creo (a.k.a. Pro/Engineer), both Windows only Applications, too.

 

[Wildkraut]

Sorry. I thought your argument was "Real Pros don't use Apple". That's obviously false and basically just trolling. Many real pros use Apple.

I guess what you meant was "I think Windows and PC hardware is better"? Or maybe "More people use Revit than Archicad"?

There is a reason why many professional designers prefer Apple hardware. It's because it's well designed.

With "Real Pros don't use Apple", I meant somebody who cares primary for their work and use the best tools available to accomplish it.

Without questions, Apple hardware looks great, but I prefer an less appealing power horse hp workstation with color calibrated displays, fast gfx card and a lot of ram, to do the real work, than messing around with an great looking Apple device with slow, inferior and outdated components. The Xcode dongle (to dev mac/ios apps) is currently the only valid argument to buy a Mac.

Anyway, exceptions will always exist, but doesn't mean it was a good choice.
Their choice was probably based on emotions(apple hardware design), than on valid professional arguments to accomplish their work. In this area, hardware purchases based on emotions just degrades their "Pro" status.

 

[lowkey]

^you seem to assume that the choice of computer makes someone a "pro" or not. That's a pretty usual assumption by people overly obsessed by specs, rather than their actual vocation.

Revit on Windows on a PC is no better tool than Archicad on OSX on a Mac. Revit on a PC is no more "pro" than Revit on a Mac.

You are not somehow a "pro" because your computer has more ram than the other person mate! It certainly doesn't give you "pro status" :LOL:

 

[pmau]

... and I also refuse to continue to pay ridiculous prices for memory and storage.

The main problem is that really large memory and exchangeable SSD models are available from most vendors.
Apple just keeps me locked-in.

The anger is not even coming from the pricing itself but the lack of options.
We have to sit and watch while all the innovations are skipped by Apple.

And I do not buy the argument that parts are not available.
I can buy any part of modern hardware today.

 

[Wildkraut]

^you seem to assume that the choice of computer makes someone a "pro" or not. That's a pretty usual assumption by people overly obsessed by specs, rather than their actual vocation.

Revit on Windows on a PC is no better tool than Archicad on OSX on a Mac. Revit on a PC is no more "pro" than Revit on a Mac.

You are not somehow a "pro" because your computer has more ram than the other person mate! It certainly doesn't give you "pro status" :LOL:

Of course not, its a combination of tools together with competence, but these tools reflects the users mindset.
Without decent tools you have to struggle like crazy, while others achieve same task, better, in less time, while time is money. E.g rendering pre-visualizations with "Maxwell,Vray,Indigo" on a Workstation with decent newer Xeon cpus, Quadro cards(decent cuda support) with fluid non-lagging viewports, huge amount of ram, saves you a lot of building and render hours. Apples expensive MacPro Trashcan with its outdated, unflexible nor upgradeable components is a joke in that matter. If a customer demand some change, he don't want to wait for the results of an slow Apple device or counterproductive working behavior. There are various cases why Apple just fail at this, and it shows why their Pro line is not Pro at all. E.g. They fail more or less at all 3D scenarios, for this there are better choices(hardware,software,money wise) than Apple hardware.
[doublepost=1469268319][/doublepost]

... and I also refuse to continue to pay ridiculous prices for memory and storage.

The main problem is that really large memory and exchangeable SSD models are available from most vendors.
Apple just keeps me locked-in.

The anger is not even coming from the pricing itself but the lack of options.
We have to sit and watch while all the innovations are skipped by Apple.

And I do not buy the argument that parts are not available.
I can buy any part of modern hardware today.

Yep, its all just a lame excuse to not lose *pro* customers, while working on their *professional* Macbook wonder LED bar for F-Keys replacement.
From Mac "Pro" to iPad "Pro" next comes iPhone "Pro" bwahaha and then someday Apple Watch "Pro".

 

[lowkey]

^first you said "Real pros don't use Apple". That's plainly false. Then you said choosing Apple lowers someone's "pro status" again a pretty laughable assessment ... You are admitting you prefer HP hardware...that's fine, but the rest is just BS.

The people in my office working on Archicad on 27"iMacs are all "real pro" architects. They are not "struggling like crazy" with inferior hardware. Their computers do everything they need them to do, with a very small IT department.

I've worked in a big office with a big IT department using Revit on PC hardware. It was no more professional.

The quality of your work and your skill level makes you a far more valuable professional than your geekbench score.

 

[geta]

Apple under Tim only focuses on iToys these days...

 

[Zarniwoop]

Typical "Pro" user is an office worker using MS Office. Word, Excel, Power Point and Outlook. One of my clients just replaced their three year old Macbook Airs to Macbooks. And they've been happy, despite the fact that they got zero more CPU power. 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD makes the difference and is the sweet spot (RAM & Storage wise). Macbook is quite perfect machine for many "Pro" users. If you compare other laptops in the market with same RAM and storage, Macbook's price is quite competitive.

I don't like the Pro brand in Macs, it's just confusing. I'd prefer Apple returns the Power Mac and Power Macbook branding instead.

Apple likes the name, because they want Mac to be the first word of the name.

 

[LordVic]

[doublepost=1469228984][/doublepost]Apple needs to use AMD. Intel chips are laggy on the up-start. Don't accidentally launch the wrong application! What a hassle trying to close and reopen the intended application. Intel = DogAss

This isn't remotely true.

As someone with a fair share of computer and cou usage experience this sort of behaviour is not CPU, but possible of many other factors (RAM, drive speed, software/OS)

None of my Intel hardware, my desktop, my server, my surface pro, my MacBook Air.

My desktop using Intel boots in 3 seconds. Applications are instantaneous (except the dog Chrome).

I recommend if you're seeing noticeable launch time lag you get your system checked out

 

[MacBH928]

The Broadwell (and in fact even some Ivy Bridge processors) chips are the highest performing mobile processors on the market. Nothing released since can touch them in overall performance.

Ok then, you are telling me that the Skylake processors are slower than Broadwell and some Ivy Bridge?

 

[iHack13]

Does AMD still make processors? Maybe that would be an option.

AMD is expected to launch some badass best bang for the buck processors in the first quarter of 2017. They are called Zen and are pretty much hyped in the tech blogs. Reason for this are presentation slides with nice graphs and most importantly Jim Keller was head of the team designing the Zen. For everyone who doesnt know him... well you kind of know him, at least you used his creations. He was first known for his AMD K8 who put AMD at lead and blew the Pentiums away back then. After that Steve Jobs who was known to hire A players only, hired him to develop the SoC in the early iPhones . iPhone 3G etc. From there on basically everything kept building upon his foundation. He is well known for setting up foundations and then leave the companies after a short time , having fulfilled his duty. Meanwhile he isnt even at AMD anymore . I think he is at Tesla.

Intel is still going to be superior, main reason being power efficiency, but if you put some Zen based APUs inside the future iMacs. They are going to be really badass. Apple will pay less and the Customer will get really good value for his money compared to the ****** current iMacs, that are actually embarrassing , since the base model is nothing but a low clock MacBook Air attached to a big screen.

 

[chilly willy]

2017 would be a miracle, I fear. Thankfully, I have the ability to hold out.....

 

[Val-kyrie]

So what? They can use the new Nvidia or AMD GPUs if they want.

Apple could, but it won't. They will likely continue to offer a $1999 15" rMBP model with iGPU only and hopefully a 15" model with a dGPU (for $500 more), unless they go all iGPUS (GT4e) and introduce external graphics cards. To offer a 15" rMBP with iGPUs other than the GT4e would be a step backward and would not be received well.

Personally, I think Apple is planning to make computing a completely modular experience. You buy the PC with CPU, iGPU only, RAM, and (minimum) storage, and attach everything else you need--eGPU, ODD, external storage (or more likely subscription to cloud storage), cables via USB-C and adapters. I wouldn't be surprised if they envisioned putting their OS and all apps in the cloud in the future based on the notion of PC = internet access node only.

 

[Appleaker]

Apple could, but it won't. They will likely continue to offer a $1999 15" rMBP model with iGPU only and hopefully a 15" model with a dGPU (for $500 more), unless they go all iGPUS (GT4e) and introduce external graphics cards. To offer a 15" rMBP with iGPUs other than the GT4e would be a step backward and would not be received well.

Personally, I think Apple is planning to make computing a completely modular experience. You buy the PC with CPU, iGPU only, RAM, and (minimum) storage, and attach everything else you need--eGPU, ODD, external storage (or more likely subscription to cloud storage), cables via USB-C and adapters. I wouldn't be surprised if they envisioned putting their OS and all apps in the cloud in the future based on the notion of PC = internet access node only.

Yeah I agree and it is extremely likely that they'll drop dGPUs in the redesigned MBPs but hopefully not.