Intel Begins Shipping First Kaby Lake Processors, but Most Macs Won't Get Them Until 2017

[Appleaker]

I doubt Apple will drop the dgpu, they have little reason to, in fact they have more reason to fit a dgpu into more models because the new ones are so much more efficient and produce less heat.

Personally I really hope they don't drop the dGPU - it is a move by Apple that I really hate, but with the redesigned MacBook Pros but here are the reasons why:

1 - The significantly thinner body will require a larger space for batteries (despite the Skylake efficiency), so the logic board has to be reduced.

2 - The heat output also has to be reduced due to the thinner body.

3 - If integrated graphics can reach around the performance of the previous dGPU, Apple will change it (even if they have to wait as they did with the 21.5" iMac). The Iris Pro 580 is more powerful than the R9 m370x in terms of TFLOPS.

4 - There is actually no suitable Pascal or Polaris mobile cards that are currently shipping. The 400-series cards currently available are rebrands of 300-series cards. The m470X is a rebrand of the m385X which would not be suitable given the new form factor and power/heat considerations. Nvidia have mobile 1000-series GPUs available right now.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Personally I really hope they don't drop the dGPU - it is a move by Apple that I really hate, but with the redesigned MacBook Pros but here are the reasons why:

1 - The significantly thinner body will require a larger space for batteries (despite the Skylake efficiency), so the logic board has to be reduced.

2 - The heat output also has to be reduced due to the thinner body.

3 - If integrated graphics can reach around the performance of the previous dGPU, Apple will change it (even if they have to wait as they did with the 21.5" iMac). The Iris Pro 580 is more powerful than the R9 m370x in terms of TFLOPS.

4 - There is actually no suitable Pascal or Polaris mobile cards that are currently shipping. The 400-series cards currently available are rebrands of 300-series cards. The m470X is a rebrand of the m385X which would not be suitable given the new form factor and power/heat considerations. Nvidia have mobile 1000-series GPUs available right now.

On paper, Iris Pro 580 is on par with R9 M380. So, next 5k 27" iMac update could present an entry model without dGPU.

Polaris 11 is 35w chip. Apple could practice its fetish to make everything thinner, and still put a dGPU in it.

 

[JamesPDX]

I'm really excited about Kaby Lake. Most see it as just an incremental improvement, but here's why I think it's really nice:

1. Optane (crosspoint) memory - crazy fast SSD's that run at 6-7x current SSD speeds. System responsiveness will be amazing.

2. On-cpu HEVC decoding. Super low cpu utilization for new 4k content playback (and even 1080p/720p stuff encoded with the new more efficient codec). In 5 years when you retire the macbook, it will make a great HTPC.

GPU doesn't matter that much to me right now. I'd build a desktop if I want to game, though I'm sure there are some improvements.

More than anything I wish residential broadband would improve. Let's assume a fairly common 50Mbps home internet connection:

Internet - 50Mbps
PCI SSD write speed - around 500MBps = 80x faster
PCI SSD NVME write speed - around 900MBps = 144x faster
New Optane write speed - around 2GBps = 320x faster

That's right - our internet can only download at 0.3% the speed of new SSD's.
If you're lucky enough to have Google Fiber at 1Gbps, you're at 6%.

SSD's are damn fast, and we need better internet! I suppose you could argue that since these are laptops the next generation with a die shrink would be even better because of improved battery life, but it's a pretty nice update. (I'm on a 5 year old machine right now).

If a computer can't easily edit 4k Avid Media Composer or Newscutter and Pro Tools as well as a Boxx or a "ProToolsPC", then I'm afraid it's not a really professional machine. They even took out ethernet. Unless Email, Tweets, and Facebooking are considered professional tools. Sure the spec looks fine, but if you can't (or won't) get a real product into people's hands, then it's all just rose-gold-strap-crap. But maybe this is all designed to herd the Creatives into merely being Consumers. Streaming wireless consumers.

This is a professional laptop, and you can buy it today. http://www.boxx.com/products/goboxx-mxl-series

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

They aren't selling fine. Sales are declining rapidly. Wonder why...

Have you looked at the laptop market as a whole? They're declining at the same rate everyone is seeing a decline. It's not due to lack of new hardware, it's due to less people buying laptops currently.

 

[Appleaker]

On paper, Iris Pro 580 is on par with R9 M380. So, next 5k 27" iMac update could present an entry model without dGPU.

Polaris 11 is 35w chip. Apple could practice its fetish to make everything thinner, and still put a dGPU in it.

Yeah I've been worried about Apple dropping the dGPU in the 27" iMac for a while, I think it's definitely possible but so is them keeping it. I really hope they choose the latter and keep the dGPU as standard accross all 27" iMacs just as they have with RAM upgradeability... I think it's more important with the 27". I can't wait to see the performance increase with the 4K models.

 

[dav1dd]

I remember some time ago, people where crazy about skylake and all the magic that would bring to apple. AND NOW, they are skipping it!!! Is hilarious.

The tragedy is that the next MBPs will probably be released this Sep with Skylake and all those that were waiting for Skylake will start waiting for Kaby instead.

 

[s15119]

Timmy is not able to manage a relationship since he is busy talking about LGBT rights all day and night.

Steve would have either straighten Intel, bought them, change CPU vendor or develop and use Apple own chip.

Clueless accountant Tim is not able to manage any company, he is not able to react or fight in a super fast brutal tech world.

He and the board have to go, they are Apple's cancer

Maybe you should apply for his job. I'm sure you know the right way to do it.

hint: the last quarterly profit was 18.4 BILLION. not too shabby for a "clueless accountant" who is "not able to manage any company".

Tell us what you have done.

 

[Zellio]

I KNOW my Core 2 Duo was outdated- I'm talking about those who are calling the present offerings (Haswell and Sky Lake) outdated.
[doublepost=1469137336][/doublepost]
Wrong - the MacBook Pro 2015 15" can drive a 4K monitor and it is Haswell.

I KNOW my Core 2 Duo was outdated- I'm talking about those who are calling the present offerings (Haswell and Sky Lake) outdated.
[doublepost=1469137336][/doublepost]
Wrong - the MacBook Pro 2015 15" can drive a 4K monitor and it is Haswell.

I don't think you need to explain to anyone that your ancient pc was out of date. All anybody would need as evidence is to attempt to run more then one tab.

And that guy you were talking to said 'multiple 4k' not one. And while I haven't tried, supposedly the IRIS pros that come with skylake can run triple 4k setups.

 

[512K Fat Mac]

Yes, I stumbled there. But it wont take away the point that there hasn't been an Intel product for rMBP 15". Until last month. And still the yields seems to be too low.

What comes to rMBP 13"... I think it will go, with MBA, to oblivion... and reborn as a one new product. Maybe that new one is waiting for the Kaby Lake?

I guess I'm a little puzzled as to why the 13" model, at least, wasn't sooner updated and announced with the Iris 550 parts. But, as you say, perhaps Apple is re-segmenting its product line and doing away with the 13"/15" bifurcation of the MBP line. Or maybe Apple just didn't want to release the 13" model (potentially months) ahead of the 15" model, which (similar to the current lineup) would likely rely exclusively on the higher end Iris Pro 580 parts, rather than the Iris 550.

Whatever the case, Intel's issues at 14nm may have been the reason Apple decided to skip a CPU respin/refresh with the current Retina Macbook Pro models. Though it seems to me that had more to do with Broadwell. At this point, however, I have a hard time pinning all of whatever Apple is now doing with the "new" Retina Macbook Pro product line (which presumably involves a design overhaul) on Intel.

 

[Arminnn89]

the only way to make change in apple mac line up is by not buying this crappy rmbp line up, but unfortunately they are still selling in high rate !!!! i really cant understand why someone give thousands to 400 days old device

 

[Michael Scrip]

C'mon; do you know you're making erroneous statements or are you ignorant? The only correct thing you said is what's bolded above.

Oops! My bad.

Skylake is present on the tiny Macbook and the iMac 5K.

I guess I was only thinking about Macbook Pro.

You win!

But it still doesn't explain how Intel is the one causing the delays suggested by the comment I replied to earlier.

This is what was said: "Why is everyone always so pissed at Apple for having “old” hardware, when it’s Intel that’s been causing the delays?"

Intel releases new chips all the time. I don't see how they are responsible for Apple's delays.

That is what I was talking about.

 

[Johnny907]

Anything to back this up? And no, geek bench does not count.
[doublepost=1469131053][/doublepost]
So you have multiple external 4K monitors? Impressive! And probably the only thing where Skylake is truly more "future proof".

Hey I'd be happy if it could drive a single 4K monitor at 60hz without a console hack.

 

[sir1963nz]

This is less about processing power for me and more about the redesign. If we're expecting some sort of shell change, I'm not buying something that was first released in 2012.

I have lots of things that we designed before 2012..... and who cares.
Does it work Y/N
Does it do the job Y/N
Is it reliable Y/N

There you go, if it answers those 3 questions, problem solved.

 

[Johnny907]

the only way to make change in apple mac line up is by not buying this crappy rmbp line up, but unfortunately they are still selling in high rate !!!! i really cant understand why someone give thousands to 400 days old device

Actually, they aren't. The current rMBP lineup is selling horribly right now because most folks are waiting for the pending refresh. Anyone that buys a Macbook before September/October either doesn't know any better, or doesn't have a choice like me. Swiping my credit card on that purchase was more painful than the first time I broke my leg.
[doublepost=1469144931][/doublepost]

I have lots of things that we designed before 2012..... and who cares.
Does it work Y/N
Does it do the job Y/N
Is it reliable Y/N

There you go, if it answers those 3 questions, problem solved.

Is it worth the same MSRP as the day it was first released?

 

[sir1963nz]

This is typical for most of Intel's CPU line.

The first customers are server OEMs and premium desktop PCs (gaming, graphics, etc.) Then the higher volume customers get upgrades as yields for the fabs improve for the wafers.

Imagine if AMD was a second source for lower end Mac's!

Why, if they are going to do that they may as well go with the ARM chip that they use in the iPadPro
its already faster than most Intel based laptops and will more than meet the needs of those who basically web surf and do email.
[doublepost=1469145101][/doublepost]

Is it worth the same MSRP as the day it was first released?

If it meets all the requirements I posted, Yes.

 

[Johnny907]

If it meets all the requirements I posted, Yes.

I bought my 2011 truck new in 2012. It met all my requirements, but I sure as heck didn't pay original MSRP. Purchased a TV first released in July 2015 in May of 16. Met all my requirements, but I didn't pay original MSRP for that either.

Apple seems to be the only company out there that can charge full price for old tech, and it's customers like you that let them get away with it with excuses like that.

 

[jimbobb24]

I thought Apple went to Intel so they would no longer be behind. But somehow...Apple still manages to.

 

[Johnny907]

Have you looked at the laptop market as a whole? They're declining at the same rate everyone is seeing a decline. It's not due to lack of new hardware, it's due to less people buying laptops currently.

Well that's funny: HP, Dell and Asus all not only beat Apple but saw year over year growth in Q2. They were all up 5.1, 4.2 and 5.4% respectively while Apple was down 8.3%, which is actually worse than the exact opposite of those other three.
What's more, the only other major manufacturer to see a decline year over year was Lenovo, and that was only 2.3%

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS41584116

 

[citysnaps]

Perhaps. But don't tell me that a product isn't shipping to or available for purchase by consumers when that's obviously not the case.

Apple being Apple, I can imagine the Company not wanting to release whatever portion of the lineup, if any, configured for the Iris 550 without also being able to ship those units configured for the 580. But to the extent the former is being delayed on account of the latter, that's more to do with Apple than with Intel.

But has Intel been supplying them in volume, more specifically, the volumes Apple needs for their laptops? Or, just enough to go in Intel's own Nuc, likely a low volume device compared to Apple laptops. If Apple cannot be assured of adequate volume deliveries they'll simply wait.

 

[Lynxpoint]

I bought my 2011 truck new in 2012. It met all my requirements, but I sure as heck didn't pay original MSRP. Purchased a TV first released in July 2015 in May of 16. Met all my requirements, but I didn't pay original MSRP for that either.

Apple seems to be the only company out there that can charge full price for old tech, and it's customers like you that let them get away with it with excuses like that.

But isn't the difference in your cases the fact that both purchased products had newer models on the market?

Apple's approach is to not introduce 'new' models, thus making the current model, no matter how long it has been on the market, the only model.

Car companies could do this as well, but they switched to the model year model long ago, so people expect it. My question in general though (and this is not in defence of Apple's approach), is why do we need continual product updates? Is there a need to be such a society of consumption that we can't wait to hear why we need to run out and get the 'latest and greatest' again?

 

[Osty]

If Apple wanted to release Macs with new processors they would have done so already.

They haven't because they don't care.

 

[Johnny907]

But isn't the difference in your cases the fact that both purchased products had newer models on the market?

Apple's approach is to not introduce 'new' models, thus making the current model, no matter how long it has been on the market, the only model.

Car companies could do this as well, but they switched to the model year model long ago, so people expect it. My question in general though (and this is not in defence of Apple's approach), is why do we need continual product updates? Is there a need to be such a society of consumption that we can't wait to hear why we need to run out and get the 'latest and greatest' again?

Nope. Both were the latest model currently available. I assume they were marked down to make room for pending replacements, as is customary in the retail market. Unless you're Apple, of course, who will be charging full price for the 2015 MBP right up until the website goes down for the 2016 MBP launch.

 

[blahbrah]

Well, at this point I'd be surprised if Apple decided to release them this year considering by the time they come out the chips will be outdated within 2 months. I'm willing to bet it's more likely this gets pushed back to Dec 2016/Jan 2017 and the 3.5mm port is replaced with lightning.

 

[Canubis]

I really hope Apple is cooking up something big in the Mac area. Otherwise: what have all these people in the Mac unit been doing for the past years?
Just read here today that about a 1000 people are expected to work on the unreleased car project. Incredible…

I remember a time, when Apple was a much smaller company than nowadays, they simply had to be, before all the iPhone and iPod craze. And it felt like productivity and efficiency was so much higher. During one of the keynote speeches Steve even compared Apple with and made fun of Microsoft, how many people were working there and how little innovation came from MS then. I bet things changed a little…

 

[Zarniwoop]

If Apple wanted to release Macs with new processors they would have done so already.

They haven't because they don't care.

Or, Apple was about to release a new form factor or new design Mac's. But the CPU's and GPU's needed were either canceled or delayed. So there was nothing to release. So they are waiting...

And I am pretty sure, that there is a roadmap to ARM based Macs.