Intel CEO Hopes to Win Back Apple by Making Better Chips Than Apple

[dguisinger]

Intel will take years to catch up with the likes of TSMC because they have/had bad engineers

Oh and intel being foundry to the likes of TSMC is confirming that they are the losers in this case, remember how intel didn’t rely on anyone in this regard because x86 was the lead for decades now poor intel has to rely on TSMC and it’s technology all because they stuffed up developing 10nm and you know it mate

Intel opening up their old fabs to be a foundry actually makes sense, as long as they can conform to industry standards which I understand they never used to.

They keep their old fabs online for years. They no longer are good for cutting edge CPUs, but they are great for embedded or less demanding ASIC's. I hear there is a chip shortage in the automotive industry, Intel probably has a fab somewhere that can produce 15 year old designs...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think this is the big question on the high end. Can Apple build or integrate with competitive GPUs on the high end?

If they don't make the effort for the niche pro machines here, they are going to have to depend on Intel/AMD for a long time... or give up on pro entirely, which seems like a non-starter for a company focused on margin.

They don’t need to integrate with any GPUs on the high end. All they need is to produce a GPU that’s faster than any prior GPU in a Mac. If it can run FCP faster and compress video quicker than any previous Pro Mac, it’s a win. It really doesn’t matter how many GFLOPS AMD and Nvidia are hitting because systems with THOSE GPU’s aren’t running FCP.

The MB and MBP are making and will continue to make Apple way more money than any of their desktops at ANY time. They’re really not concerned about margin for those because they’ve got margin covered and THEN some in the mobile area.

 

[StupidOpinion]

the only thing intel got left with apple is gonna be the mac pro. they gave up on creating SSDs, getting their ass kicked by amd, and their discrete GPUs are nowhere to be seen at the moment. by the time they can even catch up with apple CPUs (at least efficiency wise), apple will be too far gone to bother supporting intel anymore, even on the mac pro. i don't see intel winning back apple any time soon. their best bet is to make some good CPUs and GPUs for PCs going forward

 

[HiRez]

If Intel uses TSMC, x86 chips may match Apple Silicon performance.

Even if that’s true—and I’m not convinced it is—why would Apple Pay Intel a large fee when they can make their own chips that are at least equally good (and likely better because they can be optimized for macOS and Apple’s needs) and keep all the profit?

There’s no going back now, this is never happening.

 

[Bandaman]

This is becoming quite sad. Maybe Intel shouldn't have rested on their name without innovating for the last decade while AMD and Apple passed them up.

Even if that’s true—and I’m not convinced it is—why would Apple Pay Intel a large when they can make their own chips that are at least equally good (and likely better because they can be optimized for macOS and Apple’s needs) and keep all the profit?

There’s no going back now, this is never happening.

These chips are ridiculously efficient. My Air never gets hot, ever, even without a fan. The most demanding tasks make it warm, whereas Intel laptops sterilize laps ... preventing any future children.

 

[Marx55]

Intel, as always, selling vaporware. Remember the never ending microprocessor promises yet got stuck on 10 nm for years and also the Intel Optane Xpoint fiasco that was going to be 1,000 times faster with 1,000 more endurance than standard SSD, but actually does not deliver, is very expensive, requires a lot lf power, generates a lot of heat, has reduced capacity and is even slower in sequential read/write than standard SSD.

And remember that the most important thing is the interface, where macOS excels in comparison to the awkward Windows and even more Linux. Besides. ARM trounces x86 in performance and battery life. Intel should move to ARM, as Apple has done. The writing is on the wall. For instance:

VMWare Fusion and The Apple M1 Chip: Q&A With VMWare’s Michael Roy
That said, we’re seeing incredible performance with aarch64 Linux and BSD virtual machines, around 8-10x faster than that of similarly spec’d x86 hardware for many operations.

https://intuitivestories.com/vmware-fusion-apple-m1-chip-qa-vmware-michael-roy.html

 

[JDHiro]

They don’t need to integrate with any GPUs on the high end. All they need is to produce a GPU that’s faster than any prior GPU in a Mac.

I agree, but if you look at Apple history of caring about GPU performance for laptop/desktops, it's not that great. This is why the world is addicted to PCs for gaming.

I hope that Apple can produce a top-tier GPU and graphics stack.
They just have like a 20 year old habit of showing that they don't care to invest in this space.

 

[Larabee119]

No, it’s actually bad. Engineers may know how to make things, but they don’t necessarily know how to make things people want to buy. They ABSOLUTELY know nothing about advertising LOL

They’re good at making the same old thing faster, and lucky for Intel, that’s what’s desired in the desktop PC space.

meanwhile in AMD ship, Lisa Su is a very successful Engineer.

 

[Rappefiets]

Intel processors are on fire these days. Thats how they feel anyway…

 

[JDHiro]

Intel should move to ARM, as Apple has done. The writing is on the wall.

Intel was already building ARM until they sold it off in 2006. I'm not sure if they are ready to deal with that egg on the face.

 

[nerdo]

Talk about being out of touch with reality... no wonder they are in this position.

 

[NotTooLate]

Is he actually admitting to the public that RIGHT NOW Apple makes better CPU`s then Intel ? this is what it sounds like when he says in the future he wants to win Apple back with better CPU`s then Apple.
Competition is good for everyone that dont count the bottom line , consumers , employees (get more money as they have far more options now days then in the past) are to gain from competition while the book keepers are losing out as they need to allocate more money to R&D and lower prices if competition is too steep.

 

[Rappefiets]

Oew I have another one! I love intel processors…. Keeps my room warm👍🏼 Loving it.

 

[dguisinger]

They don’t need to integrate with any GPUs on the high end. All they need is to produce a GPU that’s faster than any prior GPU in a Mac. If it can run FCP faster and compress video quicker than any previous Pro Mac, it’s a win. It really doesn’t matter how many GFLOPS AMD and Nvidia are hitting because systems with THOSE GPU’s aren’t running FCP.

The MB and MBP are making and will continue to make Apple way more money than any of their desktops at ANY time. They’re really not concerned about margin for those because they’ve got margin covered and THEN some in the mobile area.

really? The only thing Mac users care about is running FCP? I swear some people listen too much to YouTubers …. Which all they do is product videos day in and day out and think the world revolves around what they do

 

[Homme]

Lot's of emotional Intel hate here! Think more logically guys. Yep, Intel went off the rails, but they know they did, and replaced the CEO, who replaced most of the rest of the management team. It's a clean slate. They also know how good ARM is now, as does everyone since the M1 release, and are working hard at both fixing up their x86 chip design, and releasing an ARM design. None of us can predict how successful they will be or not, but they are a huge, specialist, chip company, so they have the history, resources, desire, and introspection, to resurrect themselves. The first step to change is to recognise there is a problem, the second step is to desire to fix it, and the third is to actually set about fixing it. Intel are up to step 3.

There's also a lot of Intel hate here due to the heat of their processors, but that is only half true. The other half is Apple's gimped cooling design in their late model Intel laptops. Have a look at these vids, and have your mind blown:

In regards to your first step, Intel attacking and mocking apple with pointless ads ( coming directly from the principal company as well as the CEO himself since he took over) as well as pathetic interviews like this begging apple back for business isn’t a sign that they are recognizing that there is a problem. Yes they know how good is ARM but they failed to do this a long time ago

Also they shouldn’t be fixing they’re x86 design when it is seriously outdated compared to ARM and RISC-V

Everyone is making their own ARM chips from server to laptop. That scares AMD.

And Apple Chips do scare AMD because every Mac sold is not using an AMD CPU. They're competing for the same customers.

considering Apple and AMD represent different markets I doubt AMD is scared, and especially since they never made CPU’s for Macs I don’t see them feeling the need to be scared when they’re main competitor is and always intel

Yah Intel is a great company. It’s going to take them a long time to catch up to TSM. Intel’s best stuff is made by TSMC

TSMC makes the best stuff for everybody

but anyways Intel is going to have government money raining on it, and they will come back - but they will be behind maybe for 5 years.

I agree, I don’t think it’s nice to hate on them for being behind.

they deserve much hate for being behind. It’s they’re fault after all

I agree, but if you look at Apple history of caring about GPU performance for laptop/desktops, it's not that great. This is why the world is addicted to PCs for gaming.

I hope that Apple can produce a top-tier GPU and graphics stack.
They just have like a 20 year old habit of showing that they don't care to invest in this space.

not that I care if apple does a good GPU or not but apple has focused and developed on much better things during their history like apple silicon and hardware/software/services,

That and even Windows OS itself is superior to MacOS on the software side for gaming as well.

 

[senttoschool]

considering Apple and AMD represent different markets I doubt AMD is scared, and especially since they never made CPU’s for Macs I don’t see them feeling the need to be scared when they’re main competitor is and always intel

Anybody who chooses a Mac will not choose an AMD-powered computer. They compete for the same customers.

 

[obamtl]

If Intel uses TSMC, x86 chips may match Apple Silicon performance.

x86 was never designed with efficiency in mind, so using TSMC’s process won’t be enough to close the gap. Intel will need to evolve an Instruction Set Architecture that beats the current RISC options, including ARM.

 

[amnesia0287]

Intel may well eventually become competitive again in the mobile space, but that isn’t enough to win apple back. I honestly can’t think of anything that would even if they made an M1 class chip that was say 10% faster. They would still pay more than for their own silicon and be forever beholden to intel and their timelines and slipping.

Ultimately apple wants as much vertical integration as possible. Why do you think they started supporting blender again? It’s so their 3d modeling people can work on macs. I remember seeing that video inside one of apples design labs and it was full of imac Pro’s running windows cause the software needed just didn’t exist. They are doing all they can to cut over EVERYTHING (thus their aim to make modems).

The other side of this is that apple can customize chips to devices, apis, languages, operating systems. Trying to get purpose build chips like that from intel might be possible with extreme cooperation, but it certainly seems less viable which is the entire reason intel macs all ended up with T2 coprocessors.

Ultimately unless intel actually somehow manages to pull out some tech revolution (quantum, or perhaps figuring out how to replace transistors with something that can somehow directly compute in hex), apple would never have reason to go back. They already went through the painful process of transitioning and creating a cpu that was a good enough proof of concept that people already are confident in apple silicon. To go back to intel now would be to burn all that investment.

 

[obamtl]

f

They could theoretically make similar chip architecture to compete against Apple Silicon. It's not happening tomorrow. However, Intel is already adapting with their 12th gen chips which are somewhat of a hybrid and a transition. I don't get the whole anti-Intel thing, especially if you're an American. I think also Intel will invest not solely in designing, but becoming a foundry to other's chip designs, much like TSMC. This is how Intel gets back Apple's business. Which only made up I believe about 5% of their revenues.

Intel’s problems are from within. Until they solve their internal blockers to innovation and delivery, I won’t bet on their 12th gen arriving when they promised, with the improvements they promised.

 

[amnesia0287]

x86 was never designed with efficiency in mind, so using TSMC’s process won’t be enough to close the gap. Intel will need to evolve an Instruction Set Architecture that beats the current RISC options, including ARM.

The instruction set in a closed system is far less important than how well optimized the ISA and OS are optimized together. A general purpose chip will never match a chip like the M1 WHEN RUNNING A MAC OS no matter how hard they try. I’d wager windows on an M1 Mac even were it fully supported would be underwhelming by comparison.

Realistically, apples cpus have a lot of the same benefits as game consoles. They don’t NEED to do everything or support every config, just the ones relevant to the target device. Basically iOS and macOS api calls on apple silicon are just closer to the baremetal than any x86 chip because x86 requires extra abstraction by design.

 

[UBS28]

f

They could theoretically make similar chip architecture to compete against Apple Silicon. It's not happening tomorrow. However, Intel is already adapting with their 12th gen chips which are somewhat of a hybrid and a transition. I don't get the whole anti-Intel thing, especially if you're an American. I think also Intel will invest not solely in designing, but becoming a foundry to other's chip designs, much like TSMC. This is how Intel gets back Apple's business. Which only made up I believe about 5% of their revenues.

Indeed. Intel is also moving to TMSC who will produce their 3nm chips. The current 12th gen is still on 10nm, so it will be a big jump for Intel when this happens.

Apple and AMD should be worried when Intel transitions also to TMSC.

 

[Icelus]

Really confused...
Are they talking about x86 or CPUs in general.
And why have this weird ad campaign if you want Apple back in the future.

 

[Putzytart]

Moving back to intel, on any level, even on one or two devices that Apple sell, would be seen as an enormous failure for Apple Silicon. There's no way Apple will allow this to happen and Intel is delirious if it thinks that there's even the slightest possibility of winning them back. Pat Gelisinger is living in a world of make-believe.

 

[Kuro Tanaka]

I thought the video was a parody. It’s now just sad.

 

[Homme]

Anybody who chooses a Mac will not choose an AMD-powered computer. They compete for the same customers.

that maybe, but again different markets. Also considering windows OS has a far larger share in the market than macOS and a market where AMD CPU’s are a part of I don’t see AMD being scared of apple, maybe if intel is extinct one day perhaps ( I wish)

Indeed. Intel is also moving to TMSC who will produce their 3nm chips. The current 12th gen is still on 10nm, so it will be a big jump for Intel when this happens.

Apple and AMD should be worried when Intel transitions also to TMSC.

I doubt apple would be worried if intel transitions to TSMC. Apple is TSMC’s number one customer and both companies have relied on each other for many many years since A8 SoC I believe in 2014, and there will be other company’s much more worth for TSMC after apple than intel

Not sure about AMD in this regards though