Intel Expecting Apple to Transition to Custom ARM-Based Chips Starting in 2020

[firewood]

Maybe this will explain why Apple has taken 2 years to build the new Mac Pro. They’re designing it from the beginning to be an ARM powerhouse. I would add that maybe it will run on dual chips, the ARM chip running macOS and native ARM apps and the Intel chip running Intel apps.

That's one possibility.
A Mac Pro including two different architecture processors.
The OS support for that hypothetical inhomogeneous processing would be pretty interesting.
Another possibility is that Apple could ship 2 types of new MacBook, at least one RISC one for developers, plus other Intel-based models for legacy/corporate customers. Apple already has iOS running on x86 (their iOS Simulator that ships with Xcode), and likely has a build of full macOS running on ARM (or other RISC?) in some blacked-out lab as well.

 

[coolfactor]

The choice of chip has nothing to do with what you’re talking about. Any chip can run any operating system.

Not true by a long shot. Software needs to be compiled for a particular chipset, and not every chipset is the same. That's why OS X, which was originally powered by Motorola chipsets needed to be completely re-compiled (and tweaked) to run on Intel x86 chipsets.

 

[kwikdeth]

Apple's modern A-series chips for iPhone and iPad are already more powerful than many Intel chips on the market.

Lol. the editorializing on this site is getting really out of hand.
There is literally zero chance of an A-series CPU having the same processing power as a high-end xeon.
If that were the case, every system maker on the planet would already be working on a plan to switch to them.
Intel would be in serious dire financial straits.

this is just like 2006-2008 when Apple insisted Core2Duos were faster than G5s. They werent. Its long since become known that Apple deliberately crippled the last G4 powerbooks because they wildly outperformed the Intel C2Ds of the time.

But whatever, hope the kool-aid actually tastes as good as you think it does in the walled gar, er, prison.

 

[coolfactor]

Curious if they could shoehorn an x86 chip in the mix for offloading x86 instructions. I bet AMD would love to sell them something custom that could communicate across a direct link to what Apple’s cooking. Maybe Apple’s chip runs the OS and everyday apps and the x86 module is gated down until it is needed. Would make for some crazy battery life and standby time. AMD basically designs for this kind of flexibility.

You're thinking exactly what I'm thinking, but the price would be prohibitive. Imagine if they build Macs that had both Intel and ARM-based processors, and ran OS X and iOS simultaneously. Wicked engineering, but I think it could be possible. Computers need to be completely rethought, so why not?

 

[kwikdeth]

Ah now the fan boys are out of the way. Those of us who really use our Mac's dread the day we can't have an intel or AMD chip in our machines. The question is this a move to dumb down the Mac line or remove it entirely....

it will be absorbed into the iDevice line.
[doublepost=1550800948][/doublepost]

Thank God. Intel blows chunks.

if the only mac i owned was a POS underpowered MacBook i'd think Intel sucked too

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This probably caught Apple off-guard

Absolutely did, especially when Intel assured not only Apple but ALL the OEM’s that Intel would be able to provide CPU’s for what the OEM’s were planning to produce. For 2016, 2017, 2018, the OEM’s were in a position they weren’t used to. A position of not being able to trust that Intel would be able to perform to their roadmap, sliding not by months, but by years!

 

[RickInHouston]

This move will really create a move back to pc's.

Good luck with that, apple.

 

[Seoras]

ARM was originally designed for the desktop, not mobiles, in the 80's.
I had an Acorn Archimedes A310 with the original ARM which smoked anything else at the time.
That was 30 years ago.
Intel's chips still carry a lot of legacy support which doesn't help in their complexity, power usage or efficiency.
ARM's instruction set has remained relatively clean and elegant in comparison.
The day has passed when you really had no choice in OS for your applications as so much of what we do is cloud based.
Also it isn't as if you can't get ARM versions of Linux or Windows but it is time we broke this i386 dependancy once and for all.
The advanced tech user won't be happy but Apple never cared about them only the tech uncaring consumer who wants to browse, do emails, write a letter, play music or edit a video.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Looking at the beast that is the A12X in the iPad Pro, I can see why.

As a customer looking to buy an Apple desktop this year, I'm really torn on what to do now. Is the lifespan of my Intel-based Mac going to be shortened by this? Seems likely. I also wonder if the transition will start with portables or desktops? You would think with a major modular redesign of the Mac Pro this year that it will be supported for a long time, but now I'm not sure.

This seems more and more to be a transitional period--it really has been since WWDC last year when Apple mentioned Marzipan and the multi-year transition / transformation. Looking back at the PPC to Intel transition--which I witnessed first-hand--I would suggest people not over-spend on current Intel hardware because it will likely not hold much value after a transition to ARM.



Those numbers are interesting. Two things I will be watching: (1) sustained vs burst performance on ARM (especially when comparing performance against Intel) and (2) performance of third-party software. iMovie offers a real-world comparison, but it won't mean much if only Apple software runs comparably between Intel and ARM.

 

[sirozha]

We can only hope-but I now I'm in the guessing game of updating my next laptop, and this just makes it harder to make a judgment call since I was looking at a MBA.

I got an MBA. Lots of compromises. Slower Wi-Fi (2x2 only) than the 15” Pro, but the same as the 13” Pro. Some Wi-Fi issues, but the 2018 Pros have the same problems. Apple will probably fix them at some point. Keyboard with a sticky key (T in my case). So far I’m using the Unshakey app to take care of the sticky T. Also, if you plug the two-prong power adapter in the 2018 MBA, you get zapped on you palms as you try to type on it. It’s supposedly the Y capacitor leaking voltage onto the aluminum body. If you use an Apple three-prong extension cord with the Apple charger, then there’s no voltage leaking. However, Apple no longer includes the extension cord, so you have to buy it separately. The same problem has been reported by owners of MacBook Pros.

Other than that, it’s a good laptop. I got the 16GB RAM 512GB SSD version, and it’s powerful enough for everything I do. I’m an IT engineer. I used to think I needed a quad-core i7 laptop, which I’ve always had. I don’t think so anymore. The 2018 MacBook Air surprised me with its performance.

If you can live with all of these issues, then go for it. If you can’t, be advised that the 2018 MacBook Pro has all the same issues. The only improvement is the 3x3 Wi-Fi card in the 15” version and, of course, a more powerful CPU. However, I refuse to pay over $2,000 for a laptop. I don’t need a quad-core i7 powerhouse that costs $3,000 or more.

To resolve the dongle hell problem, I bought a Hyperdrive Net-6 USB-C/Thunderbolt3 hub for $99. Its a phenomenal device! I am even able to use the 2018 MBA with my 27” Cinema Display with an additional USB-C to MiniDisplayPort adapter from Hypershop.com. This hub has a built-in Gigabit Ethernet, two USB-A ports, a Thuncerbolt3 port, a USB-C port, and an HDMI port. Pretty much covers everything one needs. They also have hubs with card readers in them and even with built-in miniDisplayPorts.

 

[cmaier]

But even saying that, you are undervaluing an asset that's already in the system.The more you try to convince me, it sounds more simply like its to spite those that would dare to use Windows-even though that was the sales pitch for close to 20 years in order to attract a whole lot of people to join the ecosystem.

I’m not trying to convince you. I’m just saying that switching to arm benefits a lot more people and creates a lot more new customers than are lost due to loss of boot camp.

 

[Trusteft]

Clickbait title.
It's not Intel expecting this transition, it's Axios.

Even if this ends up being accurate with Apple moving away from Intel and completely to ARM based CPUs, I can't see how this is going to be a good move for customers in the long run, as the article in the end claims it to be.

I will tell you what it will be, a disaster for Macs.
A very upsetting (to me) win for Microsoft.

If it ends up being true, what a dumb move!
I was planning on getting a new Mac in 2019, I just don't see the point any more.

 

[RickInHouston]

Now I am definitely delaying my purchase until later 2021. Interesting times ahead though. I hope Apple is working with Microsoft to build a port of Windows 10 for A Series with full desktop Office apps. Apple should get some developers on board to do the same for their apps: Adobe, AutoDesk, Intuit etc.

I laughed out loud when you said, "I hope Apple is working with Microsoft."

 

[cmaier]

Not true by a long shot. Software needs to be compiled for a particular chipset, and not every chipset is the same. That's why OS X, which was originally powered by Motorola chipsets needed to be completely re-compiled (and tweaked) to run on Intel x86 chipsets.

Sigh. I’m a cpu designer. I know that. My point is that essentially OS can be compiled for essentially any cpu, and the fact that a device has ARM doesn’t mean it has to use iOS instead of macOS.

 

[pl1984]

Lol. the editorializing on this site is getting really out of hand.
There is literally zero chance of an A-series CPU having the same processing power as a high-end xeon.
If that were the case, every system maker on the planet would already be working on a plan to switch to them.
Intel would be in serious dire financial straits.

this is just like 2006-2008 when Apple insisted Core2Duos were faster than G5s. They werent. Its long since become known that Apple deliberately crippled the last G4 powerbooks because they wildly outperformed the Intel C2Ds of the time.

But whatever, hope the kool-aid actually tastes as good as you think it does in the walled gar, er, prison.

Keep in mind they said:

...are already more powerful than many Intel chips...​

Given Intel makes a lot of different chips with different power / performance / heat / etc requirements I'm sure the ARM processors in the iPhone and iPads are faster than some of them. Though I'm not sure I would say they're faster than many of them.

I also want to know what they're faster at. I don't want to hear Geekbench for an answer. I want real world tasks that are CPU intensive.

 

[eeboarder]

I wonder if this is just part of the transition from Mac OS to iOS. It seems like Apple has been slowly pushing Mac OS in that direction.

 

[Val-kyrie]

ok--fine. But here is my concern:

what about boot camp? I this going to screw with my windows 10 when I decide to buy a new Mac. Second, what about the programs that came to Mac once apple transitioned from G-processors? Are they all going away then?

Based on the difficulties and limitations Windows on ARM has with X86 emulation, I would deduce that Boot Camp will be discontinued and any Intel software you own will require upgrading to an ARM version, if the developer decides to continue to support the software on ARM.

Many consumers who use Windows likely use Office. Since MS is now pushing Office 360 over Office 2019, continuing the transition to SaaS (Software as a Service), Office users will need the MS subscription unless they switch to Windows on X86. Apple will tout Office 360 on an ARM Mac to assuage business users--along with other SaaS apps (e.g. Adobe)--and omit any reference to lesser known Windows programs, such as the ones I use professionally. At the very least, any Mac ARM transition will require me to own an X86 Windows PC.

 

[Techwatcher]

My only concern with this is will this change still allow us to run Boot Camp and Parallels Desktop on ARM based Macs?

Nope.

 

[cmaier]

Nope.

There will likely be a parallels-like solution by someone at some point.

 

[alphaod]

My only concern with this is will this change still allow us to run Boot Camp and Parallels Desktop on ARM based Macs?

Well there is already Windows for ARM, so not much problem there.

 

[atomicparker]

I'm old enough to remember when Steve was on stage saying over and over again how much faster PPC was than Intel.

NARRATOR

"It wasn't."

 

[AstroRob]

Switching to a new architecture is going to be disastrous for a great deal of pro users who work on machines more powerful than laptops. It will be particularly damaging to the science research community that relies on access to legacy code; researchers do not have the resources or support to constantly update code bases to pivot to entirely new hardware. Also losing access to Boot Camp will be a critical blow to the many of us who rely on cross-platform workflows.

Nothing in this article makes me happy or promises to improve my work in any way that will offset the extreme disruption this will cause. It took many YEARS to recover from the PPC shift (as necessary as it was), and even the OSX transition.

I do wish Apple would quit fixing things that aren't seriously broken for the sake of design control.

 

[Acidsplat]

Well there is already Windows for ARM, so not much problem there.

I would prefer they keep Intel chips for the Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, and iMac Pro but Windows for ARM is a good point for VM uses if Microsoft will allow purchasing a license for it instead of requiring a pre-install on a new PC.

Windows on ARM also has an x86 emulator for apps and they're working on x64 emulation right now.

 

[pier]

Ah now the fan boys are out of the way. Those of us who really use our Mac's dread the day we can't have an intel or AMD chip in our machines. The question is this a move to dumb down the Mac line or remove it entirely....

My thoughts exactly.

I love macOS, specially for its small quality developers, but the only Apple app I use on a daily basis is Finder. Moving to ARM might be a good business or hardware decision (which remains to be seen) but it might not be a good decision for the quality of the software ecosystem.

I could be wrong but I seriously doubt Apple will find a way to emulate x86 instructions on ARM with good performance.

Time will tell.

 

[unclemax]

you get zapped on you palms as you try to type on it. It’s supposedly the Y capacitor leaking voltage onto the aluminum body. If you use an Apple three-prong extension cord with the Apple charger, then there’s no voltage leaking.

This is crazy. I had this issue with my 2011 MBA and have it with my current 2015 MBP. Why wouldn't Apple fix it already?