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Intel Expecting Apple to Transition to Custom ARM-Based Chips Starting in 2020

I use an MBP for my consulting business because I can bootcamp Windows into a partition, and run some Windows-only business applications that my clients utilize (MS Project, MS Visio, etc). If I can't run them, I'll have to switch to a Wintel laptop.

May be good for the wallet as I won't have to pay the ever-increasing prices on mbp's. I'll just switch for an imac (have one that is 8 years old and still ticking) and iphone for personal use.
 
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Reindeer_Games said:
Possibly on the macOS side (I sure don't want iOS though), but how will Bootcamp suffer? That is my concern.



Ok, I see your point, but please see above. I want Windows in full fashion, not a high powered netbook.
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That’s an orthogonal issue. But most of us only want MacOS in full fashion and don’t give a **** about windows.

Macs have always been expensive, but lately they have been underpowered, expensive, and unreliable. If people are buying them to run Windows, that’s their fault.
 
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So, is this the beginning of the end for MacOS? What about people investing right now in a new Mac, will it still be supported in 6 years time or will it be scrap in just a few short years?

Speaking for myself I will not be investing in new Mac hardware until we see if the rumours are true and how this will play out.
 
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Interesting (i.e. ignorant) comments re: ARM vs. x86. At the moment, there just isn't a good comparison. Apple's A-series of chips is not your typical ARM processor - as evidence by EVERY benchmark out there. Look at the Geekbench results for the A12X vs. Intel's i5 mobile line - the A12X is neck and neck, and even sometimes goes out ahead. And that's for a chip designed for only passive cooling. Imagine one with active cooling that doesn't have to stay throttled to stay cool. In addition, those complaining about not being able to do things on the iPad because of the ARM chip, that's not an ARM issue, that's a software issue with the iPad. Transitioning to ARM on a Mac is not going to suddenly convert macOS into iOS.

With all of that being said, without seeing an A-series chip in a Mac, with active cooling, we really have no real comparison to go on.

I do, however, echo other's sentiments re: Boot Camp and virtualization. One of the great things about the PPC to x86 transition was native support for Windows. While I don't use Windows all that often, it is extremely convenient to fire up a VM and be good to go. While emulation has come a long ways since the PPC days, there's still a ton of overhead to emulate a different instruction set. Microsoft does have a version of Windows for ARM processors, but it's not great, at least not yet.
 
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Junior117 said:
Microsoft has actually made progress on making Windows work well on ARM processors and they've made it in such a way where developers have very little (if any) changes to their code in order for their apps to work properly.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/

So at this point, I (at the very least, since I use Windows and macOS side-by-side via Parallels) can breathe a sigh of relief.

The only issue now is to get previous versions of Windows to work on ARM processors, but this is of no concern for me since I don't use them.
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First of all, do we actually know whether Windows 10 for ARM64 can run on any of Apple’s A-series processors? If not currently, then do we have any idea how much work would be involved? If this rumor is true, then maintaining compatibility of CPU architectures is not likely to be a major goal for Apple, and they would be unlikely to pay Microsoft to devote engineering resources to getting Windows 10 running on A-series processors. Would Microsoft have the financial incentive to do this on their own?

Second, even if these rumored Apple-designed Mac CPUs can run Windows 10 for ARM64 in virtualization, are your Windows-only games and productivity apps compiled for ARM64? Probably not.
 
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Lankyman said:
So, is this the beginning of the end for MacOS? What about people investing right now in a new Mac, will it still be supported in 6 years time or will it be scrap in just a few short years?

Speaking for myself I will not be investing in new Mac hardware until we see if the rumours are true and how this will play out.
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What does this have to do with MacOS? Certainly they will have no problem porting it to ARM. ARM macs are going to run MacOS, not iOS.
 
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This is fine for the MacBook, but no way can they bypass TigerLake for an ARM processor in the 2020 Pro machines and not get a huge blowback from the professional community.

Hopefully they stick with ARM only for their less demanding products.
 
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UltimaKilo said:
This is fine for the MacBook, but no way can they bypass TigerLake for an ARM processor in the 2020 Pro machines and not get a huge blowback from the professional community.

Hopefully they stick with ARM only for their less demanding products.
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I hope not, since ARM will be faster than Intel, and I want the fastest machine possible.
 
I know quite a few people that run Windows in parallels... personally I use bootcamp for games. As a casual gamer I'm happy with iMac performance and the fact, that I can use it instead of a "real" PC box.

But bigger question is, what will happen with software, that came to Mac when it went Intel... as a music producer I have lots of plugins, many of which are made by small developers. Will they develop an ARM version or will they simply abandon the platform with less users? And even if they do it, that's a lot of work, which probably means buying the ARM licence again...
 
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I'm truly hoping that the iOS/macOS looks and feels and works exactly like OS X. Will this be the start of the iPad becoming the new MacBook Pro? It just feels like Macs these days and in the future won't be "keepers" like they used to be, but "consumable" that needs to be replaced every 2 - 3 years. I hope that's not the case.
 
Now I am definitely delaying my purchase until later 2021. Interesting times ahead though. I hope Apple is working with Microsoft to build a port of Windows 10 for A Series with full desktop Office apps. Apple should get some developers on board to do the same for their apps: Adobe, AutoDesk, Intuit etc.
 
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I really have no desire to go through another processor migration with Apple.

It had better run x64 code natively on the hardware (not software emulation). This could be why the 32 bit apps are done after Mohave. Apple will only need to have the processor run Intel 64 bit code.
 
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I can see it this for laptops like the Air, but the MacPro? Pretty dang hard to beat an 18 core Xeon.
And what about all the really expensive pro apps? 3D and simulation stuff that costs thousands & thousnds. Hard to imagine those companies being enthusiastic about this.
We can expect Adobe to get with the program sometime in 2030
 
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Mr. Dee said:
Now I am definitely delaying my purchase until later 2021. Interesting times ahead though. I hope Apple is working with Microsoft to build a port of Windows 10 for A Series with full desktop Office apps. Apple should get some developers on board to do the same for their apps: Adobe, AutoDesk, Intuit etc.
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If that deal with Microsoft is still in place then Microsoft will have to port Office to ARM Macs.
 
tha_man said:
I know quite a few people that run Windows in parallels... personally I use bootcamp for games. As a casual gamer I'm happy with iMac performance and the fact, that I can use it instead of a "real" PC box.

But bigger question is, what will happen with software, that came to Mac when it went Intel... as a music producer I have lots of plugins, many of which are made by small developers. Will they develop an ARM version or will they simply abandon the platform with less users? And even if they do it, that's a lot of work, which probably means buying the ARM licence again...
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I thought about the same. I mean Logic will be fine and probably AU plugins might be natively compatible. But seeing Avids track record in supporting new MacOS versions, I will not even start to think about how long it would take them to port ProTools to ARM let alone all the (non-AU) plugins. And then I'm not even talking about all the 3rd party applications that are needed to install and maintain all the plugins (Waves Central, Gobbler, Native Access, iLok ...). Thinking about driver support for all the external HW I use... it creeps me thinking about it. All of this stuff is vital for me so I hope this will be a somewhat well-thought move and they start treating music production serious again.
 
cube said:
Because people only started buying Macs in greater numbers when it could also run Windows natively.
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cube said:
What?
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You had told a member to forget Windows Games, but prior in the thread you acknowledge that when Windows became native is when Apple's computers began selling in droves. Bootcamp made OS X/macOS/Apple into the company it is today.
 
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iVoid said:
It had better run x64 code natively on the hardware (not software emulation). This could be why the 32 bit apps are done after Mohave. Apple will only need to have the processor run Intel 64 bit code.
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Apple is not allowed to run native x64 or x86 code on their processors. That would be an infringement of Intel's copyrights. Only AMD is allowed to do that.
 
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"Apple is said to be planning to use its Marzipan efforts to allow developers to create a single app that can theoretically work with all of Apple hardware, including the iPhone and Mac sometime in 2021"

This would fit the time table and require all to have ARM chips. So makes sense.
 
Reindeer_Games said:
You had told a member to forget Windows Games, but prior in the thread you acknowledge that when Windows became native is when Apple's computers began selling in droves. Bootcamp made OS X/macOS/Apple into the company it is today.
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Yes, if you go ARM you should forget about Windows games.
 
Will probably be the next-gen MacBook Pros, as their 4-year replacement cycle is due in 2020.
 
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