Intel Experiencing Shortages of Notebook Chips?

[zoemacuser]

You know, if all you MB-Pro people had all just bought one back when you needed it months ago you could have been enjoying a laptop for the last 5 or 6 months. Instead, you've been sitting around, laptopless, wondering what to do.

This is getting kind of funny now...I'm assuming you're all just posting from iPhones, getting madder and madder every day?

Or we already have laptops, and are just wanting to make sure we don't get one and a week later new ones come out...

 

[mags631]

Well, if you agree with me, then I would recommend you don't say you don't.
If I say "Apple does not have the resources to produce a competitive chip" and you answer that with "Yes they do", then what you're saying is that "Apple does have the resources to design a _competitive_ chip". That's not so difficult, is it?

No I did not say that I agree with you. I don't agree with you because your point is moot.

Oh? Macbooks would sell just as well if a $ 2000 Macbook offered the performance of a $ 500 netbook, you think? It's not necessary to be competitive as far as performance is concerned? Right.

This is tangential and only supports my argument why they shouldn't. This has nothing to do with "can't" (not being able to).

Apple could get economies by sub-ing out the manufacturing. Or perhaps, they simply ask Intel to produce a special Apple variant. My argument is not based on production of the chip, but the design.

 

[M.Fantastique]

I only took issue with the assertion that they can't.

Keep taking issue, because they can't: They do not have the R E S O U R C E S.

 

[mags631]

Keep taking issue, because they can't: They do not have the R E S O U R C E S.

Which resources do they not have that they can't acquire?

 

[zMudvayne]

No I did not say that I agree with you. I don't agree with you because your point is moot.



This is tangential and only supports my argument why they shouldn't. This has nothing to do with "can't" (not being able to).

Apple could get economies by sub-ing out the manufacturing. Or perhaps, they simply ask Intel to produce a special Apple variant. My argument is not based on production of the chip, but the design.

Apple is not such a major customer of Intel that they can request a custom designed chip and expect to recieve sufficient quantities of it. Intel and Apple have worked closely and Apple has been given special
packing of chips for the MBA but not a custom designed chip. Apple, like any other computer company, is not in control of Intel, it is the other way around. On the same respect, you asked why not purchase Intel licensing?... Because if Apple starts producing their own chips, Intel would be in no position to assist them... Why would the help Apple become independent of Intel?! Seriously, you cannot base your argument on the fact that Apple is _able_ to design a chip, we're talking about competitive advantage and practical
implementation.

 

[thedavemc]

Is there a possibility that the reason intel has a shortage is because they have just delivered a shed load of chips to apple? It seems unlikely that Apple would be considered 2nd tier and all the companies that have already released ix laptops 1st tier.

 

[M.Fantastique]

No I did not say that I agree with you. I don't agree with you because your point is moot.

Oh, I see, that's what you meant with reasoning based on facts, etc.? You just say my point is moot? Funny guy, maybe try to follow arguments?

If you exit a line of argument in the middle by just claiming that what you said is not what you meant, and you were in fact not talking about Apple's ability to produce competitive chips, when that, however, is what you where referring to all along, then you're just unable to argue with people, and my wardrobe recommendation still applies.

This is tangential and only supports my argument why they shouldn't. This has nothing to do with "can't" (not being able to).

So you think that Apple "is able to" design a competitive laptop chip?

My argument is not based on production of the chip, but the design.

Your arguments seem to be based on the fact that your parents were doing drugs a bit too much. Kid, you either start to make sense, or you're officially out of this discussion.

 

[zMudvayne]

Which resources do they not have that they can't acquire?

Patents. Manufacturing. Lifecycle. Market awareness and penetration. Economies of scale.

 

[choco]

You know, if all you MB-Pro people had all just bought one back when you needed it months ago you could have been enjoying a laptop for the last 5 or 6 months. Instead, you've been sitting around, laptopless, wondering what to do.

This is getting kind of funny now...I'm assuming you're all just posting from iPhones, getting madder and madder every day?

5/6 months ago i was unemployed and broke. now i have enough saved up for a pimped out 15" mbp and i work on an old dell w/ less than a gig of ram leaving me to do my design homework in the class before it's due because my laptop takes 10 minutes to just open any adobe program.

...but that's just me. i'm sure an iphone would be better.

 

[M.Fantastique]

Which resources do they not have that they can't acquire?

What about decades of experience of designing and manufacturing most of the best performing PC processors, for example?

Your point is a bit like saying that AT&T is going to build the next space shuttle. And then if somebody says "no way, they don't have the resources to do that", then you say "which resources do they not have that they can't acquire?".

 

[iZac]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and probably am) but wasn't this an issue? Or are these different processors?

 

[mags631]

Oh, I see, that's what you meant with reasoning based on facts, etc.? You just say my point is moot? Funny guy, maybe try to follow arguments?

I seem to follow arguments fine. And there is only person in this argument that finds it necessary to consistently insult others who happen to disagree. Your only claim is that they don't have "resources" but have yet to provide any insight into what those resources might be.

If you exit a line of argument in the middle by just claiming that what you said is not what you meant, and you were in fact not talking about Apple's ability to produce competitive chips, when that, however, is what you where referring to all along, then you're just unable to argue with people, and my wardrobe recommendation still applies.

I've never claimed that. So no.

So you think that Apple "is able to" design a competitive laptop chip?

It's guaranteed -- they own the platform which the chip would supply.

Your arguments seem to be based on the fact that your parents were doing drugs a bit too much. Kid, you either start to make sense, or you're officially out of this discussion.

Again, ad hominem.

 

[M.Fantastique]

I seem to follow arguments fine.

Good one!

And there is only person in this argument that finds it necessary to consistently insult others who happen to disagree.

I'm telling you that you are showing a respectable inadequacy for logically following arguments. I cannot see the insult there. I showed you several examples of where you where not making any sense, and you've consistently failed to provide answers to those examples. Either you're just trying to provoke, or you are demonstrating a low intellect.

It's guaranteed -- they own the platform which the chip would supply.

See, now you're _again_ claiming that Apple is able to _design competitive laptop processors_, when just a few minutes ago you claimed that you were just talking about Apple's ability to design _a_ chip, and that you were never talking about competitive chips.

You so don't make sense. It's not an insult to call a duck a duck. You're out. Go play now.

 

[cvaldes]

Which resources do they not have that they can't acquire?

They currently don't have the human resources nor do they have the Intel license.

They have the assets (cash) to hire or acquire another firm, but there is no guarantee that those people could be properly integrated to provide the team necessary to do custom Intel design work which is a much more challenging endeavor compared to optimizing an ARM design.

Also, it's pretty obvious that Apple does not pay for an Intel license. So despite the fact that they have the assets (cash) to do so, they currently don't have the required resources nor does it appear that they have inclination to acquire those required resources.

Your stumbling block is using the word "can". Just because Apple "can", doesn't mean they "should", "want to" or "will".

 

[ValSalva]

I think this story is either bogus or has nothing to do with Apple and the relative delay in refreshing their MBP line.

Apple use Intel's higher end chips more than most OEMs. Thus even though Apple gets bulk deals it buys the higher margin chips from Intel. So wouldn't it make sense that Apple ends up as one, or the one, priority for Intel?

I'm not buying this.

 

[Eric S.]

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Apple has been developing their own chip and will be throwing everybody a curve ball for the next generation of MBP's.

Thus the delay?

0% chance of this.

Unless this revision included something extraordinary like Blu-Ray drives and HDMI outputs, which I doubt, I would not expect a pre-announcement or even an announcement at all. Rather, like in the past, Apple will just quietly upgrade/update the MB(P)s when everything is ready. It could very well be that supply and/or the Intel-NVidia chipset fiasco could be the reason the MB(P)s are not updated yet.

Those are two very different possibilities for the delay. The "Intel-NVidia chipset fiasco" has implications for the basic board design, so issues here could very well have implications on the release schedule. The chip supply is a very minor problem in comparison.

I think this story is either bogus or has nothing to do with Apple and the relative delay in refreshing their MBP line....

I'm not buying this.

I agree. This seems like the tech blogs have run out of things to talk about.

 

[cvaldes]

I think this story is either bogus or has nothing to do with Apple and the relative delay in refreshing their MBP line.

Apple use Intel's higher end chips more than most OEMs. Thus even though Apple gets bulk deals it buys the higher margin chips from Intel. So wouldn't it make sense that Apple ends up as one, or the one, priority for Intel?

I'm not buying this.

Actually, the fact that Apple uses the higher-end parts is a very plausible reason why they might experience delays.

Yields are typically lower for a high-end chip because the increased complexity results in higher number of rejects from a wafer. Some of the rejects can be underclocked and sold as a lower performance part, thus increasing the availability of those.

Even though Intel has priced its product line to anticipate availability, it still often comes down to actual yield limitations from the manufacturing line.

It will take Intel several months to refine its 32nm manufacturing process and eventually, there will be fewer rejects from any given wafer.

 

[puckhead193]

maybe because apple bought all them in the future mbps....

 

[ValSalva]

Actually, the fact that Apple uses the higher-end parts is a very plausible reason why they might experience delays.

Yields are typically lower for a high-end chip because the increased complexity results in higher number of rejects from a wafer. Some of the rejects can be underclocked and sold as a lower performance part, thus increasing the availability of those.

Even though Intel has priced its product line to anticipate availability, it still often comes down to actual yield limitations from the manufacturing line.

It will take Intel several months to refine its 32nm manufacturing process and eventually, there will be fewer rejects from any given wafer.

True, I hadn't considered this. It just seems like Arrandale has been out long enough and is in enough other OEMs products that this story doesn't seem right.

 

[mrblack927]

Your arguments seem to be based on the fact that your parents were doing drugs a bit too much. Kid, you either start to make sense, or you're officially out of this discussion.

You're out. Go play now.

Oh, I didn't know the supreme ruler of the internet posted on macrumors? Do I have permission to post? Does anyone else here have permission to post? Should we speak freely or wait for your authorization in the future?

My point is, don't result to personal attacks. It makes you look far more immature than you accuse the other person of being. For the record, I supported you up until those comments.

 

[Lone Deranger]

You sound like a broken record DJ ellison.

Right now - I can go and buy a Core iX laptop from Sony, HP, Dell, Acer, Asus - straight off the shelf

A 'shortage' is a pathetically weak argument in explaining the tardiness of Apple in updating their outdated, overpriced laptop lineup because somehow - it's not affecting any other player.

 

[wizard]

Not a chance in hell.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Apple has been developing their own chip and will be throwing everybody a curve ball for the next generation of MBP's.

Thus the delay?

What I could see is a special arrangement with intel for annArrandale that deletes the GPU. Further because of all the recent patents that Apple has filed with respect to vector processors I could see them replacing the GPU with an Apple design vector processor on the Arrandale chip.

Now that is a limited probability possibility but is many more times likely than Apple building their own X86 processor. It would be almost impossible for Apple to build a competitive X86 at a reasonable price for their captive market.

Dave

 

[gri]

Apple is not such a major customer of Intel that they can request a custom designed chip and expect to recieve sufficient quantities of it. Intel and Apple have worked closely and Apple has been given special
packing of chips for the MBA but not a custom designed chip. Apple, like any other computer company, is not in control of Intel, it is the other way around. On the same respect, you asked why not purchase Intel licensing?... Because if Apple starts producing their own chips, Intel would be in no position to assist them... Why would the help Apple become independent of Intel?! Seriously, you cannot base your argument on the fact that Apple is _able_ to design a chip, we're talking about competitive advantage and practical
implementation.

Ah - if I remember correctly (and I might be wrong on this) - didn't Intel specially design the chip for the MBA...? In any cse, we now need to wait even longer for an update of the portable line (I am waiting for the right MBA until it was originally released, schlepping my MBP around with me).

 

[Eidorian]

Ah - if I remember correctly (and I might be wrong on this) - didn't Intel specially design the chip for the MBA...? In any cse, we now need to wait even longer for an update of the portable line (I am waiting for the right MBA until it was originally released, schlepping my MBP around with me).

The packaging was smaller but it was just a Low Voltage Merom otherwise. Apple decided to use the smaller packaging first.

 

[mdavis]

Just say no to MBP

Posting from Pismo.

Seriously.

Got a Dual 1.25 G4 MDD at home.

Anyway, those of you that think Apple could build an x86 are strait up retarded.