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anyone else seen that hp is releasing laptops this month and early sept with quad core and 8gb ram with 1gb vid cards?

they are doing the 17" elitebook this month and the 15" in sept. starting prices around 1700 and 1500.

maybe this gives hope that apple will release something similar....or they will be way behind.

i dont have the link but you can search or find it through engadget and other sites. (on my cell phone now)
 
Depends on what CPU they use. I've owned those monster workstations from HP (and others) and in the past, they used desktop CPUs (my zd7000 had a desktop 3.4GHz Pentium 4) which required significant (and loud) active cooling systems and offered very, very poor battery life (about 1.1amp draw per 10 minutes).

I would hope HP uses the QX9300 (at the price-point of these machines, $1100 for a CPU is not an obstacle), but they might want to do with much cheaper desktop quad-cores (which can be had for under $200).
 
Electronista said:
The 17-inch EliteBook 8730w is the first known notebook to use a true Intel mobile quad-core processor rather than repurposed desktop parts and thus has the same size and battery performance of regular 17-inch systems.
...
The mobile workstation ... has the choice of an NVIDIA Quadro FX video chipset with 1GB of memory that can accelerate advanced 3D.
...
Two smaller 15.4-inch systems, the EliteBook 8530p and 8530w, will also have the option of the quad-core processor and come with as much as 8GB of memory when they ship in September, starting at a slightly lower $1,499.
...
The 8730w borrows the similar color accuracy development as the PC maker's recent DreamColor desktop display and outputs a full 16 million colors versus the 260,000 of most existing notebook LCD panels
Looks like the MacBook Pro will be left in the dust.

As I don't expect the MacBook Pro to get quad-core until H1 2010, it is realized that Apple's top laptop will have about half the theoretical performance of PC laptops not too much bigger for over a year.

Apple's obsession with thin and light on pro hardware is now costing them in terms of performance. Apple's obsession with crippling the MacBook means that the MacBook Pro has to fill the $2000 area as well as the $2500~$3000 area, and so is costing them in terms of high-end components. Would it be that bad to make the 17" MacBook Pro thicker and more powerful? Don't many who buy it use it as a desktop replacement anyway? As is, they aren't much different except for an extra USB port and high-res displays. The latter could be solved, but Apple isn't, since a 1680*1050 15" MacBook Pro would evidently eliminate the differentiation between the 15" and 17". So why not increase the differentiation by making the 17" better? (The 15" can't move down because apparently a MacBook Pro with a smaller display and a low-end discrete GPU is otherwise known as a MacBook with a GPU, which is supposedly too close to the regular MacBook.)

Perhaps the first comment on the second link summed things up.
splendic said:
With prices like these available for this kind of hardware, I'm always shocked that Apple can stay in business, and I don't say this as a windows fan, but as smart consumer.

Now, let's say Apple did release a thicker and more powerful 17" MacBook Pro. And the MacBook would get thinner than 1" because of the new 25 W (as opposed to 35 W) CPUs. So basically we would have a smooth progression of display sizes and thicknesses:

13" MacBook (.9") -- 15" MacBook Pro (1.0") -- 17" MacBook Pro (1.25")

What about the MacBook Air? It's thinner than the MacBook but more expensive. How would this fit? Well, it'll take a few years. The latest rumors point to significantly increased CPU and HD specs. So Apple could drop the price while offering a similar set of specs as today's MacBook Air. This would continue revision after revision, as the MacBook Air gets cheaper and cheaper.

From the other side, the MacBook would get more expensive. We've already seen this from the MacBook going up from $999 to $1099 and staying there. The aluminum case could also mean that the MacBook could become more like a MacBook Pro, in other words, moving up.

The two lines would cross seamlessly, as they are two different model lines with two different markets. And when the crossover is done, we get, much like the Mac mini - iMac - Mac Pro lineups and the iPod shuffle - iPod nano - iPod touch lineups:

11" 1280*800 MacBook Air (.16"~.76") -- 13" 1440*900 MacBook (.9") -- 15" 1680*1050 MacBook Pro (1.0") -- 17" 1920*1200 MacBook Pro (1.25")

That's one interesting possibility (never mind its likelihood).
 
Good to know. I wonder when the first quad core macs are going to come out. I'm not holding my breath, though.
I assume you mean other than the Mac Pro because it's had quad-core for quite a while. :p

Theoretically, the iMac can handle the upcoming 2.53 GHz quad-core (45 W, $1038) and the MacBook Pro and MacBook can handle the upcoming 2.27 GHz quad-core (35 W, $851).

But Apple doesn't put lower-clocked quad-cores in the same lineup as higher-clocked dual-cores (even as BTO). Montevina has only one 35 W quad-core and the GHz gap between dual- and quad-core is too large. Nehalem most likely won't solve these problems. So we may not see quad-cores in the iMac, MacBook Pro, or MacBook until H1 2010, when Westmere is released and would allow cheaper, cooler, and faster quad-cores (likely as cheap as $3xx). Then, the iMac and MacBook Pro would probably have an all-quad-core lineup. :) The MacBook would stay with dual-core until quad-cores get even cheaper and cooler (25 W, $2xx), at that point they'll all move to quad-core.

It has been hinted that mobile Nehalem will actually be 32 nm (Westmere) in Q3 2009; that would allow quad-cores to come sooner than 2010.
 
Love the HP books, and yes Apple will be behind as always.

But, there is no such thing as a smart consumer. You either buy what you want or you don't. Using the oxymoron "smart consumer" is simply suggesting whatever purchasing choice you make is the best for everyone, when in fact it's the best for you and your current decision.

So that reviewer is truly an idiot.

Once again, I agree that the 17" MBP could use a serious overhaul of design and innards so it can keep up with the PC variants. At the same time however, I do enjoy having a 17" book that is lighter than PC 15" books. So I do hope that Apple's over paid engineer's can find a good balance.
 
Well with the Q9100 quad-core having the same TDP and price as the current X9100 3.06GHz dual-core in the iMac and the 2.6GHz X7900 dual-core in the MacBook Pro, there is no real reason not to offer it in either machine.

Intel will likely drop the price of both the X9100 and X7900, which would allow Apple to just substitute the quad-core model for the current dual-core at the same price and then drop each current dual-core down to the next level, dropping the 2.4GHz base and replacing it with the 2.66GHz (iMac) and 2.5GHz (MacBook Pro)at each current price point.
 
Will a 2.27 quad be faster than the current 2.6 duo (or whatever the highest in the MBP is right now, i can't think), or is it not as simple as that? My main usage for the MBP will be for audio, so i'm guessing quad core will definitely help with plug-ins etc, especially with snow leopard, whenever that comes out?

Basically, would the extra cost of a BTO quad at a lower speed be worth it, or does it depend a LOT on what you're doing? (Excluding people just writing emails etc, obviously).
 
Will a 2.27 quad be faster than the current 2.6 duo (or whatever the highest in the MBP is right now, i can't think), or is it not as simple as that?

Applications really need to be designed to take advantage of multiple cores to get the most out of them.
 
Will a 2.27 quad be faster than the current 2.6 duo (or whatever the highest in the MBP is right now, i can't think), or is it not as simple as that? My main usage for the MBP will be for audio, so i'm guessing quad core will definitely help with plug-ins etc, especially with snow leopard, whenever that comes out?

Basically, would the extra cost of a BTO quad at a lower speed be worth it, or does it depend a LOT on what you're doing? (Excluding people just writing emails etc, obviously).
It depends on a variety of factors. Single-threaded or multi-threaded, CPU-bound vs. other-bound, cache-intensive, OS support (Snow Leopard).

Also with Montevina there will be a 2.8 GHz 35 W CPU that is in the same segment as the current 2.6 GHz. The 2.27 GHz quad-core is also over $300 more expensive than the 2.8 GHz dual-core ($851 vs. $530).

GHz for GHz, theoretically:

The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 81% as fast as the 2.8 GHz dual-core in single- and dual- threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 62% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in multi-threaded tasks.

Also if the applications and OS uses, say, 25% of the 2.8 GHz dual-core at idle, the numbers change in the quad-core's favor. Then:
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 81% as fast as the 2.8 GHz dual-core in single-threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 8% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in dual-threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 83% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in multi-threaded tasks.

This is because the quad-core is 4·(2.27 GHz) = 9.07 GHz while the dual-core is 2·(2.8 GHz) = 5.6 GHz, so 25% of 2.8 GHz dual-core (1.4 GHz) is bigger to the dual-core than the quad-core.
 
Will a 2.27 quad be faster than the current 2.6 duo (or whatever the highest in the MBP is right now, i can't think), or is it not as simple as that? My main usage for the MBP will be for audio, so i'm guessing quad core will definitely help with plug-ins etc, especially with snow leopard, whenever that comes out?

Basically, would the extra cost of a BTO quad at a lower speed be worth it, or does it depend a LOT on what you're doing? (Excluding people just writing emails etc, obviously).

yes, it will be - more cores mean more power (even though they dont add up (its NOT 2Ghz dual core = 4Ghz power) --unless you count in an OS that distributes tasks equally (snow leopard's upcoming technology called "Grand Central" processes will be distributed amongst all the cores equally - since processors have a heating CURVE and not a straight line - it will allow you to run cooler and faster) :cool:

and then the advantages work out properly
 
It depends on a variety of factors. Single-threaded or multi-threaded, CPU-bound vs. other-bound, cache-intensive, OS support (Snow Leopard).

Also with Montevina there will be a 2.8 GHz 35 W CPU that is in the same segment as the current 2.6 GHz. The 2.27 GHz quad-core is also over $300 more expensive than the 2.8 GHz dual-core ($851 vs. $530).

GHz for GHz, theoretically:

The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 81% as fast as the 2.8 GHz dual-core in single- and dual- threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 62% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in multi-threaded tasks.

Also if the applications and OS uses, say, 25% of the 2.8 GHz dual-core at idle, the numbers change in the quad-core's favor. Then:
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 81% as fast as the 2.8 GHz dual-core in single-threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 8% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in dual-threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 83% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in multi-threaded tasks.

This is because the quad-core is 4·(2.27 GHz) = 9.07 GHz while the dual-core is 2·(2.8 GHz) = 5.6 GHz, so 25% of 2.8 GHz dual-core (1.4 GHz) is bigger to the dual-core than the quad-core.

makes prefect sense - but youre a math whiz -- makes me envy u LOL :p
and the way u did the math is correct (read my post before this 1)
 
It depends on a variety of factors. Single-threaded or multi-threaded, CPU-bound vs. other-bound, cache-intensive, OS support (Snow Leopard).

Also with Montevina there will be a 2.8 GHz 35 W CPU that is in the same segment as the current 2.6 GHz. The 2.27 GHz quad-core is also over $300 more expensive than the 2.8 GHz dual-core ($851 vs. $530).

GHz for GHz, theoretically:

The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 81% as fast as the 2.8 GHz dual-core in single- and dual- threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 62% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in multi-threaded tasks.

Also if the applications and OS uses, say, 25% of the 2.8 GHz dual-core at idle, the numbers change in the quad-core's favor. Then:
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 81% as fast as the 2.8 GHz dual-core in single-threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 8% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in dual-threaded tasks.
The 2.27 GHz quad-core is 83% faster than the 2.8 GHz dual-core in multi-threaded tasks.

This is because the quad-core is 4·(2.27 GHz) = 9.07 GHz while the dual-core is 2·(2.8 GHz) = 5.6 GHz, so 25% of 2.8 GHz dual-core (1.4 GHz) is bigger to the dual-core than the quad-core.

Sweeeet. Nice maths etc!
Shotgun quad core MBP...
 
Well with the Q9100 quad-core having the same TDP and price as the current X9100 3.06GHz dual-core in the iMac and the 2.6GHz X7900 dual-core in the MacBook Pro, there is no real reason not to offer it in either machine.
No technical reason, right. But Apple won't put a lower-clocked quad-core in the same lineup as higher-clocked dual-cores (see the Mac Pro). If this is true, there won't be quad-core MacBook Pros until 2010 since there will be only 1 35 W quad-core in 2008 and 2009.

Intel will likely drop the price of both the X9100 and X7900, which would allow Apple to just substitute the quad-core model for the current dual-core at the same price and then drop each current dual-core down to the next level, dropping the 2.4GHz base and replacing it with the 2.66GHz (iMac) and 2.5GHz (MacBook Pro)at each current price point.[/quote]Q9100 is $851 so it would be a BTO option for the MacBook Pro, at least.
 
No technical reason, right. But Apple won't put a lower-clocked quad-core in the same lineup as higher-clocked dual-cores...

I agree it could create confusion in the marketplace since many folks still look at the clockspeed as the sole determiner of what is "fast" or not.

So Apple may indeed just keep the quad-cores as a BTO option for the iMac and MacBook Pro because:

  1. People who understand the difference between a quad-core and dual-core already know which is better for them.
  2. Apple can explain the differences on their website and in the Apple Store to help folks who don't understand make the proper buying decision.

Keeping the X9100 and X7900 as the top-end "retail/web" models would also allow Apple to lower the price a bit, which would help. They can then price the quad-core BTO upgraded model at the current price of the X9100 iMac and X7900 MacBook Pro.
 
I agree it could create confusion in the marketplace since many folks still look at the clockspeed as the sole determiner of what is "fast" or not.

So Apple may indeed just keep the quad-cores as a BTO option for the iMac and MacBook Pro because:

  1. People who understand the difference between a quad-core and dual-core already know which is better for them.
  2. Apple can explain the differences on their website and in the Apple Store to help folks who don't understand make the proper buying decision.
Completely agreed.

The only thing is that for the Mac Pro, even with BTOs, Apple keeps quad-cores at an equal or faster GHz as dual-cores. This leads me to think that this would carry over to the iMac and MacBook Pro.
 
Completely agreed.

The only thing is that for the Mac Pro, even with BTOs, Apple keeps quad-cores at an equal or faster GHz as dual-cores. This leads me to think that this would carry over to the iMac and MacBook Pro.

True, but since Intel's hands are tied on the mobile side in terms of how fast they can run up a chip (just getting a quad-core to 35W TDP is pretty impressive considering what the desktop chips run at), Apple may have no choice but to offer it as a BTO option even if it is slower then most/all of their dual-core offerings in the same line and then educating customers who don't understand why this is the case.
 
True, but since Intel's hands are tied on the mobile side in terms of how fast they can run up a chip (just getting a quad-core to 35W TDP is pretty impressive considering what the desktop chips run at), Apple may have no choice but to offer it as a BTO option even if it is slower then most/all of their dual-core offerings in the same line and then educating customers who don't understand why this is the case.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see what they do. I wouldn't be suprised to see them wait for 2.53GHz and 2.66GHz Nehalem mobile quad cores. I also don't think they would lose much business by doing so assuming we'd see such processors being suitable for a Macbook Pro by Q1 2010.
 
Even if they get the quad core speeds up by then, won't the dual cores have higher GHz by then too and the quad cores won't have actually caught up?
 
Even if they get the quad core speeds up by then, won't the dual cores have higher GHz by then too and the quad cores won't have actually caught up?

The sad thing is the quad cores can (and do if you look at the Xeons) run as fast as the dual core CPUs. I think I have said before, Intel can probably clock these chips pretty close to 4GHz on air if they felt inclined to. Core 2 just scales that well.
 
Even if they get the quad core speeds up by then, won't the dual cores have higher GHz by then too and the quad cores won't have actually caught up?

Probably. Apple somewhat hobbles themselves by using mobile technology in most of their desktop line, but that technology allows them to create smaller, sleeker and quieter form factors.

Apple will probably be helped by Intel's own advertising. Intel will very much want to instill in the minds of customers that even if it has a lower clockspeed, "four is better then two". They will want to do this because AMD does not offer a quad-core mobile CPU (that I am aware of) and as such, Intel can make more money by getting people to buy quads as only Intel can offer them.
 
I agree it could create confusion in the marketplace since many folks still look at the clockspeed as the sole determiner of what is "fast" or not.



Hmm..

Cores are the new Mhz.

Even for the dumbest Art Director of the lot, coming up with a "4 cores is better than 2 cores" slogan is not too hard.And the buyer get´s that.
That is the next trend in advertisement.

The Mhz myth still seems to be quite strong amongst the heavy users,but common folks lost the ball about 3-4 years ago.

-Older people go to the store and buy a computer that can "surf and read email"
-Younger peeps buy stuff that is "L33t" or has a nice colour.
-Nerds are still nerds,tinkering stuff and worrying about the geekbench results..


So my guess is that apple will go 4 core route in MBPs when they come aviable. Just to get the bragging rights and strenthen the image that they are forerunners.
Even if the performance would stay the same, about 70% of the purchasers wouldnt know that. And the 20% would know that but wouldnt care.
 
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