Intel to Supply Apple with Special High-End Haswell Processors for MacBook Pro

[nhiyenvo]

okay I just bought a new mbpr(2.3 ghz i7 quad core, 8gb ram, 256 ssd, geforce 650 graphics card with 3 year warranty) for 2k at bestbuy for college. All I do is game, school stuff, use photoshop and paint tool SAI for drawing. Was I stupid for not knowing a new mbp with a hashwell chip was coming out?!! like seriously? ughh. Should I have waited?

 

[eltaurus]

Please elaborate.
If integrated graphics gets you from A to B as fast if not faster than discrete graphics then what difference does it make?

Or do you measure the size of your penis by computer specs?

see there is a common sense. Dedicated GPU is always better then integrated.

todays smart phone have better processing capabilities then 80s super computer BUT we should compare latest integrated GPU vs Dedicated GPU.

no way it will be faster from A to B

 

[neteng101]

By both of those definitions, an advanced gamer can qualify.

An advanced gamer would laugh at you and consider you a real joke if you even mention gaming on a Mac to them.

 

[Quu]

The fear I think is that the dGPU will go away permanently which most people including myself do not want. Even though I will not be buying a rMBP, I just don't think it would be the right move. Selling an Iris Pro only rMBP alongside ones with dGPUs would be a good move though.

I understand that fear but if this Iris Pro ends up being faster than the dedicated card Apple would have used anyway then does it really matter?

Intels Haswell chips are manufactured on a 22nm process. Broadwell is set to be produced on a 14nm process. NVIDIA and AMD are stuck right now at 28nm and they may well be still at 28nm when Broadwell launches. Intel is ahead of the game in power consumption and gate size.

The point I'm trying to make is I think the concerns are perhaps unfounded at this stage due to Intel being so far ahead in fabrication they could conceivably deliver a better midrange GPU (which is what Apple has always used in the MacBook Pro range) than NVIDIA and AMD can at the power consumption Apple wants.

I was totally against Apple dropping the dedi GPU in place of an Intel Iris Pro chip. But that was before this story broke about them getting an especially powerful chip that could potentially beat the overclocked 650m in the current Retina MacBook Pro, now I'm on the fence and I want to see the notebook before I make any decisions.

 

[jread]

This is why I'm waiting a bit... If iPad 3 and HDTV showed me anything, is that you can't go back... I'm still happy with my 2010 hires 15" MBP, so I don't even want to see a rMBP... Yet...

Trust me, stay far away from the rMBP until you are ready to buy one.

I bought a decked out Haswell MBA in June and after using my iPhone and iPad for so long, I absolutely could not stand the MBA display. I was disgusted with it and found it completely unacceptable. Retina screens are all I want now, the sharp text, the color quality, and more importantly, they don't strain my eyes.

I returned the MBA after 3-days and bought a 13" rMBP for about the same price. I will never buy a non-retina device again. Apple has shown me how amazing displays can be and I can't go back to anything less.

 

[eltaurus]

You weren't the only person choosing between 15" and 13" for the rMBP. Why don't you check the actual sales numbers if there are any?

hmm .. ok .. 4 me my opinion matters .. i didn't buy rMBP 13 that mean 1 sale less due to me ..

But with twice the power on the Haswell this might just fix the problem without compromising the form factor. dGPU will vanish soon from notebooks without a question quite soon.

there are so many other things involved in it ( with time dedicated GPUs are becoming powerful as well .. almost real-time 3d rendering) … anyway if i agree with you .. Then please drop the word PRO from it.

not sure about that ... the rMBP 13" is the sweet spot for me in terms of physical size, power, portability, resolution and performance. I'm not into editing photos or video so I doubt I'll need the prowess of a dGPU but I do appreciate the video capabilities handled by it's own memory space!!

I'm on a late 2010 MBP now (non Hi-Res LCD) and I wonder if I should spend the extra $$ for the high-end rMBP 15"??

Good.. BTW you can do edit phot & videos on MBA also .. retina display is amazing once you get use to it u won't like other displays

So what is it that you know about rMBP 13" sales that nobody else knows?

Fact is, outside a small but vocal minority, nobody cares about dedicated graphics.

to tell you the fact " sssssuuuusssshhhhh I didn't buy it because of no dedicated GPU + 128GB SSD + 1500$ do you think i am stupid ? & anyone else ask me for advice I never recommended rMBP 13 bcz of price to value ratio "

nobody cares then get a MBA

power was never something macs were able to deliver at a competitive price point so not sure what you're complaining about...

seriously then how there are always mention 2x / 3x performance gains ? & highlight features during launch events

I'm a "creative guy" too. I do photography (with Photoshop), video capture/editing (FCPX), website design/engineering and iOS development. Having had a shot at doing such tasks on the 13" RMBP, it's absolutely capable of running all of my tasks very smoothly. The ONLY reason I want the 15" display is because it's bigger, not because it's more capable.

There's a very, very big difference in what suits you, and what suites anyone else. Just because the 13" RMBP doesn't meet YOUR needs, it doesn't mean it doesn't fit someone else's needs, and it certainly does NOT imply that the sales are any less.

And I don't run out and buy every Apple product there is. My current MacBook Pro was purchased in December 2010, and only now just starting to fall behind my needs. My iMac, purchased in 2011 takes everything I throw at it. I only bought my iPhone 5 last year because my contract was up, and was due a renewal. My only "had to buy it now" purchase was the 3rd Gen Apple TV, and I've used it pretty much every day since I bought it.

Don't judge people based on nothing. You're always wrong.

Ok .. here's a thing.. all the thing you do .. You can do it in MBA as well .. right?

there more advance users also. Do you work in Digital content creation apps (3d like c4d / maya / houdini )? do you know about realtime GPU render.

Do you know in more advance applications you can dedicated UI to integrated GPU & use dedicated GPU to render 3d scenes ?

 

[cppguy]

I have a unique line of work that requires me to run multiple large virtual machines for multi-OS development. Not all at the same time, but they must always be with me. That means at least 500GB 7200rpm drive, plus a 256GB SSD. Ideally both should be much larger.

At the same time, I don't want an all-in-one, because I already have nice monitors, and I need a single computer that I can carry to work every day in a backpack. That leaves me with MacBook Pro (classic) or MacMini. They both allow me to run a dual-drive configuration. I know I'm the minority, a niche customer, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs larger storage than the amount of SSD we can afford/justify buying. And those standard 5400rpm drives come out of my machines the day after I buy them.

I really hope that the discrete GPU option still remains available. It should even be introduced into the Mac Mini as well. The Mini is a very nice portable desktop for those who want to carry a computer, but don't need a built-in display and keyboard. I have a hard time working on a 15" laptop screen, retina or not, I'm so used to 27".

Technically I don't need a gaming PC, but if I spend that much, why would I settle for something without a dedicated GPU? Especially when we can use the GPU for things other than gaming.

 

[sshhoott]

Any possibility of IGZO?

 

[syd430]

...and there it is. The death of the Pro in MacBook Pro. So Apple can continue their irrational obsession with stripping functionality to make thinner and thinner.

R.I.P.

There's many reasons why dGPU's suck in a laptop other than their physical size. It really has little to do with making the machine thinner. The entire industry has been shifting in this direction for some time now.

 

[techwhiz]

They are both referred to as a MacBook Pro.

However this from the story:

Earlier this week, KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo suggested that the updated MacBook Pros will launch in mid-September. It is unclear if Apple will refresh both the Retina MacBook Pros and the standard MacBook Pros, but many believe that Apple is planning to phase out the non-Retina varieties.

this could mean the end for the non-retina displays.

Not surprising the RMBP outsells the standard MBP.
Talked to an AppleStore employee and he said, all he sees going out the door is machines with SSD, MB Air and Retina MBP. Almost none of the standard MBP. Mind you this is a single store but I bet they don't move many of the non-retina variety since the MBA offers SSD and similar performance to the standard MBA. Remember the 11" Air is similar in resolution to the 13" MBP and the 13" MBA is similar to the 15" MBP.

 

[Rafterman]

Trust me, stay far away from the rMBP until you are ready to buy one.

I bought a decked out Haswell MBA in June and after using my iPhone and iPad for so long, I absolutely could not stand the MBA display. I was disgusted with it and found it completely unacceptable. Retina screens are all I want now, the sharp text, the color quality, and more importantly, they don't strain my eyes.

I returned the MBA after 3-days and bought a 13" rMBP for about the same price. I will never buy a non-retina device again. Apple has shown me how amazing displays can be and I can't go back to anything less.

I stayed away from the first gen rMBP's. I got spooked by all the screen issues people are having and didn't want to mess with worrying whether I got a Samsung or an LG display. I'm hoping the new Haswell ones coming up will have ironed out those screen issues.

On a side note, I am clearly disgusted at how Apple dealt with the screen problem. Instead of pulling all the LG displays from stock and shipping only Samsung ones (LG seems to be the problematic screens - problems with image retention), Apple decided "go cheap" and let the customers sort it out for them by waiting until a customer bought a "bad" LG equipped model, then replacing the screen by repair with a Samsung one. As I said, Apple should have yanked all LG equipped models and only used Samsung ones, instead of making the customer go through repair to fix the stock problem for them.

 

[Toltepeceno]

The MacBook is also worse than a GameBoy SP for portable gaming.

The macbook is nowhere remoetly close to the graphics cards used in the sagers, but then again the macbook is not a gaming laptop.

I pretty much never play any more, but when I did I preferred pc over PORTABLE gaming stuff.

 

[jread]

On a side note, I am clearly disgusted at how Apple dealt with the screen problem. Instead of pulling all the LG displays from stock and shipping only Samsung ones (LG seems to be the problematic screens - problems with image retention), Apple decided "go cheap" and let the customers sort it out for them by waiting until a customer bought a "bad" LG equipped model, then replacing the screen by repair with a Samsung one. As I said, Apple should have yanked all LG equipped models and only used Samsung ones, instead of making the customer go through repair to fix the stock problem for them.

I completely agree.

I also don't like how Apple released the iPad 3, then 6-months later released the iPad 4 with no warning and discontinued the iPad 3. This not only hurt the resale value of the 3, but also showed that the 3 was a place holder, just slapped together to get a retina iPad out there when the 4 is what they really wanted to make.

 

[AzN1337c0d3r]

The Iris Pro is not going to match the performance of the GT650M (which is really a GTX660M) on the current rMBP. The rMBP sorely needs additional GPU power as well. I don't see Apple only providing Iris graphics on rMBP. I also don't see the Iris Pro making it into any machine alongside discrete graphics. The rMBP can hardly handle the current 45W chips and the 4950HQ is a 57W TDP part!

I think Apple is doing this to remove the discrete graphics on the non-Retina Macbook Pro, which clearly doesn't need all that much GPU power. Maybe drop the price on it a couple hundred bucks too to make it sell better.

 

[Count Blah]

I understand that fear but if this Iris Pro ends up being faster than the dedicated card Apple would have used anyway then does it really matter?

And if it doesn't?

Intels Haswell chips are manufactured on a 22nm process. Broadwell is set to be produced on a 14nm process. NVIDIA and AMD are stuck right now at 28nm and they may well be still at 28nm when Broadwell launches. Intel is ahead of the game in power consumption and gate size.

I agree. With the general progression, the NEXT version of the iGPU should be on-par if not slightly ahead of the GPUs that would go into the MBP.

The point I'm trying to make is I think the concerns are perhaps unfounded at this stage due to Intel being so far ahead in fabrication they could conceivably deliver a better midrange GPU (which is what Apple has always used in the MacBook Pro range) than NVIDIA and AMD can at the power consumption Apple wants.

Could they "conceivably deliver a better midrange GPU"? Sure, if they improve some of their benchmarks by 30-40% from previously stated. Unless you are talking about just being below LAST years dGPU - 650M

I was totally against Apple dropping the dedi GPU in place of an Intel Iris Pro chip. But that was before this story broke about them getting an especially powerful chip that could potentially beat the overclocked 650m in the current Retina MacBook Pro, now I'm on the fence and I want to see the notebook before I make any decisions.

You should still be. Intel would have to make some MAJOR improvements in this special version to come anywhere close to what a 2013 dGPU puts out. *this is not directed at you specifically* Please don't show the ONE benchmark where IRIS beats the 650M, show the other 10 where is lags behind. Then at 5-10% increase to the 650M results to put it on par with it's year younger siblings.

 

[weaverra]

I'm confused:

Is this for MBP or Retina MBP? Would make no sense to need all this GPU power for the low-res standard screens.

GPU power is not just for resolution. For 3d graphics and rendering it could be useful no matter the resolution.

 

[djcodee]

Video Dj's everywhere are crying!

These step back to integrated video cards is not suitable for the pro community. I hop they drop the pro name and make a real pro laptop. Hell even the new mac pro tower may not be enough video power for what is needed. I may have to go back to PC's. If only windows supported syphon.

 

[chrono1081]

Why? I really don't understand the people who are against the retina display. After using one for awhile, every other display looks like total crap. Is it the display or just the fact that the rMBP is not upgradeable?

They're not really against it, they're just looking for reasons to whine about a machine they don't even have for some reason.

Macbook Pro's are fantastic machines, anyone who thinks they're crap hasn't used one.

 

[kahkityoong]

They're not really against it, they're just looking for reasons to whine about a machine they don't even have for some reason.

Macbook Pro's are fantastic machines, anyone who thinks they're crap hasn't used one.

And some people have trouble comprehending that not everyone else has the same needs nor opinions as themselves. It's a trait often found in autistic people. I own both retina and standard displays and for a variety of reasons as a professional photographer and digital artist, I prefer the non-retina anti-glare display on my 15" non-Retina display MBP.

 

[Mr. Gates]

This rumor is false.

There is no reason for Intel to shut out 90% of the PC world.

It doesn't make any sense to position yourself against your biggest clients.

Whatever the top tier mobile chip might be, it will be available to anyone willing to sign a contract.

There will be no exclusive AT&T style chip hoarding

 

[Mr. Dee]

When Broadwell gets here

Already saving up for the next iMac with Haswell (this will be my first Mac). Right now, this is my priority, already have a decent laptop with Windows 7.

Next, I am also purchasing an iPad 5 when and if it comes.

Next, an unlocked iPhone 5S, when it comes.

As for when I do purchase a Retina MacBook Pro:
1. When Broadwell is here
2. Price drop - its too expensive
3. DDR4 and this might actually be after Broadwell, so 2015, gen 4 MBPr?
4. Thunderbolt 2
5. 512 GBs SSD default config
6. Want to be able to purchase it with 16 GB default
7. Have to save for it, since I will be spending quite a bit in 2013 on Apple.
8. Its a want, not a need, so I can wait, still have a 7 year old Acer doing a great job.

 

[alexrmc92]

Dedicated GPU's are the future. AMD and Intel are both starting to put everything on one chip. When you have a single chip you don't have to worry about bus limitations. Eventually we will see graphics cards that require more than what PCIe has to offer and the next logical step will be CPU and GPU integration.

The slim Xbox 360 already does this along with both new gaming consoles coming out this year. AMD and Intel both do it with their lower end chips, eventually the higher end chips will have high end GPU's integrated with them. Haswell is just the beginning.

 

[applepie555]

okay I just bought a new mbpr(2.3 ghz i7 quad core, 8gb ram, 256 ssd, geforce 650 graphics card with 3 year warranty) for 2k at bestbuy for college. All I do is game, school stuff, use photoshop and paint tool SAI for drawing. Was I stupid for not knowing a new mbp with a hashwell chip was coming out?!! like seriously? ughh. Should I have waited?

Well a dGPU would probably be better unless intel did something amazing. Is it really a 2.3? Or is it a 2.4? Most best buys don't sell the 2.3 since it was updated to 2.4 several months ago. And just recently any 2.3/2.6ghz "2012" model (not the "newer" 2.4/2.7/2.8s) were put on clearance for just $1299 in any store that still has them (not that many). If you just got it and it is the older 2.3, maybe you can go back to best buy and see if you can get some of your money back...

Haswell should bring better battery life (but probably no dGPU), faster SSDs, hopefully fixes to things like image retention, and 802.11ac.

I personally have given in and ordered one (a 2.6/512). Unfortunately I couldn't get the best buy clearance (Around $1650 with tax), only a few stores had it...) so I ended getting it from B&H ($2149, no tax in my state)

That being said unless apple lowered prices you still saved a haswell would be around $2500 with a 3yr warranty. And again, it sees more likely for apple to drop the dGPU for Iris, which isn't as good for gaming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

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I have a unique line of work that requires me to run multiple large virtual machines for multi-OS development. Not all at the same time, but they must always be with me. That means at least 500GB 7200rpm drive, plus a 256GB SSD. Ideally both should be much larger.

At the same time, I don't want an all-in-one, because I already have nice monitors, and I need a single computer that I can carry to work every day in a backpack. That leaves me with MacBook Pro (classic) or MacMini. They both allow me to run a dual-drive configuration. I know I'm the minority, a niche customer, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs larger storage than the amount of SSD we can afford/justify buying. And those standard 5400rpm drives come out of my machines the day after I buy them.

I really hope that the discrete GPU option still remains available. It should even be introduced into the Mac Mini as well. The Mini is a very nice portable desktop for those who want to carry a computer, but don't need a built-in display and keyboard. I have a hard time working on a 15" laptop screen, retina or not, I'm so used to 27".

Technically I don't need a gaming PC, but if I spend that much, why would I settle for something without a dedicated GPU? Especially when we can use the GPU for things other than gaming.

I can get no dGPU on MBPs but there is no reason not to put one on a mini as a high end option...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[StyxMaker]

…on average once a month for a few weeks at a time …

If you're going somewhere once a month for '...a few weeks at a time...' aren't you, pretty much, living there?

 

[spaceballl]

I would be surprised and irked if they gave up integrated graphics in the pro. As a current rMBP user, I don't think the GPU is currently powerful enough to power its own display. It often lags, and even things like editing a few photos in Aperture can bring this supposedly high-end machine to its knees. When I do the same stuff on my LED Thunderbolt display, they are faster... One of the main features that would make me pull the trigger on an upgrade would be a faster GPU. I don't think MacBook Pro users like myself are as concerned with battery life. Yes... we like good battery life... of course... but 80% of the time, we're plugged in, and we want power. I was really hoping to see significantly better graphics on this next version...