Intel's Napa Platform with Yonah

[boombashi]

Considering that the current Powerbook has not been updated speedwise in a year, I cant see Apple just letting it sit there with the same speed for another 6 months. I think it wil be PB first and then iBook.
Alternatively maybe we will see the 7448 in the Powerbook first...

Yeah, I doubt they would be so hard cut and start from the bottom up. I could see a mac mini upgrade and not a laptop upgrade, but I think they will do PBs first or both at the same time, or a new line all together (very possible).

Actually my real prediction is nobody knows what they are talking about except Apple who will be suprising the crap out of everyone in a few weeks - can't wait.

 

[pgwalsh]

Considering that the current Powerbook has not been updated speedwise in a year, I cant see Apple just letting it sit there with the same speed for another 6 months. I think it wil be PB first and then iBook.
Alternatively maybe we will see the 7448 in the Powerbook first...

No sure why so many people are convinced it'll be one or the other. I don't think it's that difficult to imagine Apple releasing a new iBook and PowerBook. Both are in need of an update.

 

[Maxiseller]

No sure why so many people are convinced it'll be one or the other. I don't think it's that difficult to imagine Apple releasing a new iBook and PowerBook. Both are in need of an update.

Agree wholly.

As it's been said, they can't update the iBook without it entirely taking over the powerbook; and obviously that isn't going to happen. Having said that, even if the iMac dwarfs the POWERbook anymore the situation will become laughable.

How long has everybody waited and prayed for a G5 powerbook "next tuesday"...I tell you, ill be pissed if January is all about the iPod again..."and one more thing is an iPod the size of a match - sure it holds only the one song, but it's thinner than my hair"

 

[GregA]

OS X x86 requires SSE3... hence there will be no old Dothan pentium M's. These will all be Yonah based pentium M's.

Yonah handles SSE2 much better than Dothan did, and it supports SOME (not all) of the SSE3 functions. Which explains why Apple asked developers not to port to Intel assuming the chip would have SSE3 (though I figured they also did that just incase Yonah didn't materialise as expected!)

 

[supersalzme]

All rumors aside, there is no way apple can just sit on the powerbook for much longer. People (even the average consumer) are starting to notice there are slim differences in performance from the ibook and PB. Yes, there are a few things, but not enough for someone like me to drop 2000 bucks on a 15" PB with a line infested screen. To be honest, if they DON'T come out with a PB in the next few months...I probably will just have to get a PC notebook...and that...sucks.

 

[pgwalsh]

Agree wholly.

As it's been said, they can't update the iBook without it entirely taking over the powerbook; and obviously that isn't going to happen. Having said that, even if the iMac dwarfs the POWERbook anymore the situation will become laughable.

How long has everybody waited and prayed for a G5 powerbook "next tuesday"...I tell you, ill be pissed if January is all about the iPod again..."and one more thing is an iPod the size of a match - sure it holds only the one song, but it's thinner than my hair"

You haven't heard!!! Rumor has it that Apple "will" release a new iPod. It's called the iPod Nero, which is surgically implanted in your brain and uses the 90% of the brain you don't use to store music. It uses your body as a battery and teaches you how to dance properly. It also has a built in wireless connection and when you think of music you like, it automatically purchases it, but there's some DRM issue with that. It's the future.

 

[Randall]

Agree wholly.

As it's been said, they can't update the iBook without it entirely taking over the powerbook; and obviously that isn't going to happen. Having said that, even if the iMac dwarfs the POWERbook anymore the situation will become laughable.

How long has everybody waited and prayed for a G5 powerbook "next tuesday"...I tell you, ill be pissed if January is all about the iPod again..."and one more thing is an iPod the size of a match - sure it holds only the one song, but it's thinner than my hair"

Ahhh the iPod pico! Steve is that you? Seriously, Apple will be updating the Powerbook to a dual core 2 GHz Intel Pentium M "Yonah". Anything less will be unacceptable.

 

[GregA]

Well it is a given that there will be compatibility problems considering that this is x86 vs PPC. Also the processor will definitely cost much, much more. The G4 PPC is a very inexpensive processor, the new Yonah will initially be Intels flagship processor and cost a pretty penny.

The cost is an important factor. The cost and apparent speed is what makes me guess Powerbooks are more likely than iBooks.

If Apple releases Intel iBooks first, they'll outperform the Powerbooks. Assuming that the Powerbooks don't get a dual-core G4 or similar.

I hope that they keep the outside relatively the same. Why mess with perfection? It has got to be the most solid and well built laptop I have ever seen. Apple please don't change the outside.

Perfection!? Well, while I wouldn't say perfection, I do think the Powerbook 15" and iBook 12" look particularly good.

Personally, I hope that for the first Intel machines Apple makes them look identical to the old PPC machines. If normal users can't tell the difference, this would be very good for Apple. It makes people more comfortable with the switch and happy to buy the Intel machines - AND the seamless transition keeps confidence in PowerMac G5s.

 

[qtip919]

All rumors aside, there is no way apple can just sit on the powerbook for much longer. People (even the average consumer) are starting to notice there are slim differences in performance from the ibook and PB. Yes, there are a few things, but not enough for someone like me to drop 2000 bucks on a 15" PB with a line infested screen. To be honest, if they DON'T come out with a PB in the next few months...I probably will just have to get a PC notebook...and that...sucks.

ew...

why not just get a "last version" powerbook (v.before the upgraded screens)

I have been soooo happy with my current 1.5ghz powerbook...wouldnt trade it for the world. Ive noticed these going for around 1100 on ebay (which is a flat out steal)

the only thing you need to do is make sure there is applecare on it, or have the receipt so you can purchase applecare at the end of the 1yr warranty period.

 

[Randall]

Yonah handles SSE2 much better than Dothan did, and it supports SOME (not all) of the SSE3 functions. Which explains why Apple asked developers not to port to Intel assuming the chip would have SSE3 (though I figured they also did that just incase Yonah didn't materialise as expected!)

hehe, I guess Apple was used to getting burned by IBM. Intel will not dissapoint. Their sole purpose in life is to churn out useable CPUs in a reasonable time frame. Take a lesson IBM... Moore's law will stay intact... no thanks to you!

 

[plastique45]

Finally, some REAL processors in an Apple box.

 

[pgwalsh]

ew...

why not just get a "last version" powerbook (v.before the upgraded screens)

I have been soooo happy with my current 1.5ghz powerbook...wouldnt trade it for the world. Ive noticed these going for around 1100 on ebay (which is a flat out steal)

the only thing you need to do is make sure there is applecare on it, or have the receipt so you can purchase applecare at the end of the 1yr warranty period.

My 1.5 Ghz 15" PowerBook is two years old and it feels older. I'm ready for something with more power. I started looking at desktops, but with the transition, I'm not sure. It'll be very intersting to see how the new machines pace and which software developers port their apps quickly. That'll make all the difference, IMO.

 

[Norse Son]

I heard this as my bus passed a noisy subway entrance... But I swear it's true!

Sorry, just want to clarify something...What makes you think that Powerbooks are to first ones, and not Ibooks? Haven't the rumors been more incisive on Ibooks? Really, I'm just trying to figure out why are you still talking about PB's...Did I miss something...?

• Are we talking about Think Secret? How many times have their sources dusted off the old tablet Mac rumors, or the mysterious "Asteroid" project that was due... hmmm... When was the last time it was due? Or the, what was it... the XStation "superduperslooper" workstation... Please, if you take them as gospel, Orson Wells has a radio broadcast you just gotta tune in.

• The point is, I don't trust rumors until I hear Steve say, "Oh, and one more thing..." Sometimes I think Steve gets bored up in his office, so he walks by the dumpster when noone's looking and writes some "hearsay", just to see how quick the rumor sites will jump on it - he's gotta be rollin' on the floor this month.https://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

• I quoted Polinho, who was responding to Lacero, who seems to have a clearer understanding of the big picture.

• Right now there is negligible difference between the PowerBook and iBook. The latter could not advance further with the G4, because the former had no where to climb. If you moved the iBook to Intel (Yonah/Napa) it would leap to a minimum 1.8GHz on a 600MHz bus (I think #s are correct). And that would blow away the G4, stuck at 1.67GHz on a 66MHz(still?!?) bus...https://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

• The iBook cannot... CANNOT... get the Yonah before/until the PowerBook. I've surfed enough stories/rumors the past 6 months to see the logic of the anemic Powerbook getting the dual-core, 32bit Yonah in January. The iBook will await the single-core, 32bit Yonah, which should debut around May/June. Then, around September, Intel will release the dual-core, 64bit Merom, at which point I believe the iBook and PowerBook lines will split/broaden into 4 distinct lines.
•• iBook "Jr.": Yonah 32bit/single-core, Intel integrated graphics (32-64MB shared memory), 13" WS, combo drive, ATA-100 hard drive, Centrino (802.11g)...
•• iBook: Yonah 32bit/dual-core (1.8-2GHz), Intel graphics (64-128MB shared memory), 13-15" WS, Superdrive, ATA-100 hard drive, Centrino (802.11g)...
•• PowerBook: Yonah 32bit/dual-core (2GHz +), PCI-E x16 GPU (128MB VRAM), 13" & 15" WS, Superdrive, S-ATA hard drive, Centrino (802.11g)...
•• PowerBook "PRO": Merom 64bit/dual-core (2.4GHz +), PCI-E x16 GPU (256MB VRAM), 15" & 17" WS HD + DVR, Superdrive, S-ATA hard drive, Centrino (802.11n), FrWr 800, USB 2, digital audio i/o...

 

[youngestchild]

ah! I want to sell my ibook to help pay for a new (current model) imac. i was banking on the new intel imac to come out at mwsf thus dropping the price of the pp imac but i need to get maximum $$$ for my ibook, it'll be a 13 months old by the time i want to sell.... but if the intel ibooks come out i'll have no choice but to drop it down to $$

 

[DrEasy]

Aren't the current iBooks held back in order not to compete with the PowerBooks? Also, wouldn't this Napa platform be too expensive to put in an iBook?

One possiblity would therefore be to release a Napa-based PowerBook, while the iBook is upgraded to the best G4 there is (i.e. whatever is in the current PowerBooks), along with a price drop.

Then in April the iBook would migrate to a single-core Yonah.

Or maybe a new laptop with a completely different name and design (black!) will be released, the rumored 13'' with the 16/9 ratio using Napa. The 12'' PowerBook and the 14'' iBook are EOL'd and the 12'' iBook is upgraded to the best G4 there is. But that seems too confusing.

 

[strange days]

The previous posts about the 25-30% decrease in the size of the laptops seems even more credible in light of this article:

"Napa . . . can help cut the size of a notebook by 30 percent versus today's machines, the Santa Clara, Calif., company said.

Thus . . . Napa will make for smaller, lighter notebooks with stronger performance, . . . ."

woohoo, anybody looking for a 9 incher yonah laptop ?

 

[Sogo]

Umm...Has everyone forgotten that intel will come out with Mermon mid year'ish of 2006? I just mention this since it hasnt really been seen as a possibility.

 

[Norse Son]

News flash: Steve Jobs NEVER said consumer... MS will be lucky to see Beta by June...

"Unless running PowerPC code on these things (Rosetta) has been vastly improved, it will be iBooks first."

" Steve said consumers first then professionals in that Intel keynote didn't he? I'm 80% sure he did."

"Remember, it's going to take some time to get the big professional apps transitioned over to Universal binary so they can run at better than snail speeds on an mactel machine. Apple jumping the gun on the Intel transition makes it even more likely that most professional apps will still be stuck with PowerPC only code."

"I'd say the tiny iBook reaching into broader market territory with a good price and lower speed is the most likely announcement along with a redesigned mac mini/media device and a big focus on Leopard because Vista is now set to mid 2006 and Steve said they'd meet the release date.

• Going from a 1.67GHz G4 on a 66MHz(?) bus, to a dual-core 1.8-2.1GHz Yonah on a 600MHz bus will ease a lot of Rosetta's lag.

• At no place in the keynote does Steve say "consumer first". I believe it was the WSJ (and/or C|Net)"leaked" stories prior to WWDC that said consumer.

• The apps that will struggle to "cross over" will be those compiled in Code Warrior. Apps originally written/compiled using XCode, or those converted over prior to the x86 announcement, will have the least trouble. Didn't Steve call Wolfram on stage at WWDC to show how it took 2 hours and 20 lines of code-change to recompile Mathematica?
It's "similar" to the whole Classic/Carbon/Cocoa transition from MacOS 9 to MacOS X.

• Longsnore-z-z-z was originally expected to hit beta back in, what, 2003? With a release in 2004, no, 2005, no...ARGHHHSGWT!...
Last week I read that the second developer beta, wasn't "on its way" from MS, for early December - ZOIKs! My calender says it's already the 14th.
And it sounds like they may skip a few previously (I won't say "original", as MS promised that back in the Jurrasic period) announced developer releases over the next couple months... And that kind of a timetable suggests the first public beta won't come before next September...
So, given MS's track record to date, and the features that continue to drop by the side of the meandering path... I think that Steve will be announcing "Alley" for release at the same time as Vista, because Alley Cat will be the only cat codename left by that distant date.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Seriously Rosetta or not a dual core 2Ghz Yonah is going to give even the PM G5 a run for its money, nevermind the current G4. Bring it on Apple!

OK I think I can claim to be one of the biggest Pentium M proponents on MR but claiming that it will take on a G5? Umm no. The one area the M gets trounced is FP calculations. The Yonah is supposedly improving on its performance but its still FAR behind even P4’s let alone G5’s.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Umm...Has everyone forgotten that intel will come out with Mermon mid year'ish of 2006? I just mention this since it hasnt really been seen as a possibility.

I still think Mermon won't be out til end of 3rd quarter. IMHO September-ish.

 

[Randall]

Yonah handles SSE2 much better than Dothan did, and it supports SOME (not all) of the SSE3 functions. Which explains why Apple asked developers not to port to Intel assuming the chip would have SSE3 (though I figured they also did that just incase Yonah didn't materialise as expected!)

Yonah does support ALL of the SSE3 instrcution set. I don't know where you got your information, but I think you are mis-informed in this respect.

Right now there is negligible difference between the PowerBook and iBook. The latter could not advance further with the G4, because the former had no where to climb. If you moved the iBook to Intel (Yonah/Napa) it would leap to a minimum 1.8GHz on a 600MHz bus (I think #s are correct). And that would blow away the G4, stuck at 1.67GHz on a 66MHz(still?!?)

To set the record strait... The PPC G4 is at a 1.67GHz clock with a 167MHz FSB. As for Yonah, it will launch with clock speeds up to 2.16 GHz with a 667 MHz FSB (166 MHz quad-pumped). A single core version will also be available, and a cut-down version of that will be marketed under the Celeron M brand. I think we can all guess as to which formats will be going where.

 

[Multimedia]

Because Dual Core Yonahs Come First

Sorry, just want to clarify something...What makes you think that Powerbooks are to first ones, and not Ibooks? Haven't the rumors been more incisive on Ibooks? Really, I'm just trying to figure out why are you still talking about PB's...Did I miss something...?

Because Dual Core Yonahs Come First. Single core Yonahs won't come out until later in 2006.

 

[Randall]

Because Dual Core Yonahs Come First. Single core Yonahs won't come out until later in 2006.

We all know that the Powerbooks will be the first to receive the x86 goodness, if only because of the dual core processor. Apple will take this opportunity to unvail the FIRST EVER DUAL CORE LAPTOP COMPUTER, and thus, Powerbook regains it's rightful place as king of all portables. This is not a rumor, it doesn't take a genius to realize that not even Apple can resist this opportunity to re-claim the mobile throne.

 

[Randall]

OK I think I can claim to be one of the biggest Pentium M proponents on MR but claiming that it will take on a G5? Umm no. The one area the M gets trounced is FP calculations. The Yonah is supposedly improving on its performance but its still FAR behind even P4’s let alone G5’s.

That is correct. Integer performance in Yonah even decreased slightly due to higher latency cache. (This is comparing Yonah to the current line of Pentium M processors "Dothan" based)

 

[AidenShaw]

hardly...

So the second core can putz around with the library calls while the first core runs the application then. How come we have been hearing reports that Rosetta is fast (enough) to be comparable?

It doesn't work that way, except in rare circumstances.

The code has to be written to run in multiple threads, and the multiple threads can be run in parallel on both cores. You can't make arbitrary core assignments based on program topology.

Having said that, there of course are some library calls that are implemented as threads. These can run in parallel, but usually the program has to be aware that they're running asynchronously in order to get full advantage.