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Good luck. Apple did not break the law in any way shape or form.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The ASA are investigating them right now and based on my understanding of Advertising Law (an area where I have some experience) they are very much breaking the law in the EU.

And when it will be on sale from Friday in the shop, you can be sure that, if you ask, the Apple genius will tell you that no, you can not conect in the UK to a non existing network but yes, you CAN conect to a far faster network then the US 4G.

The whole point is, you shouldn't have to ask.

Most people in the UK have heard of 4G and know it is coming. By extension, when purchasing a product advertising itself as "4G", you might reasonably expect it to support the upcoming 4G Networks that all the Network operators are banging on about.

In the EU, you can't imply one thing and then cover yourself by putting a fuller explanation/caveat in the small print.

So far as the ASA is concerned, Apple's content might as well say:

Cookies - 90% Fat Free & Super Tasty
10% Anthrax - Do not ingest.
 
This justifies my decision to not upgrade. Thanks, Apple, I really appreciate this - but I hope that next generation will be compatible with the 4G network we use in Norway and other European countries. This is because I'm considering an upgrade to the top-of-the-line iPad of latest gen in mid-2013 as a graduation gift to myself (utilizable 4G and 128 gigs of storage would be fantastic!)

But until then...

1311723169535.jpg
 
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The ASA are investigating them right now and based on my understanding of Advertising Law (an area where I have some experience) they are very much breaking the law in the EU.



The whole point is, you shouldn't have to ask.

Most people in the UK have heard of 4G and know it is coming. By extension, when purchasing a product advertising itself as "4G", you might reasonably expect it to support the upcoming 4G Networks that all the Network operators are banging on about.

In the EU, you can't imply one thing and then cover yourself by putting a fuller explanation/caveat in the small print.

So far as the ASA is concerned, Apple's content might as well say:

Cookies - 90% Fat Free & Super Tasty
10% Anthrax - Do not ingest.


You have a link pointing to this alleged investigation or is it more whimsy like your claim regarding the UK website.

Is your site failing or do you need a font size like this to be about to read it?

You are misleading people into believing that Apple shrunk the font size as to try and hide the fact that they do not support European LTE when they never said they did in the first place. You are truly lost.
 
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The ASA are investigating them right now and based on my understanding of Advertising Law (an area where I have some experience) they are very much breaking the law in the EU.



The whole point is, you shouldn't have to ask.

Most people in the UK have heard of 4G and know it is coming. By extension, when purchasing a product advertising itself as "4G", you might reasonably expect it to support the upcoming 4G Networks that all the Network operators are banging on about.

In the EU, you can't imply one thing and then cover yourself by putting a fuller explanation/caveat in the small print.

So far as the ASA is concerned, Apple's content might as well say:

Cookies - 90% Fat Free & Super Tasty
10% Anthrax - Do not ingest.

You really think that a brit will come up in a year or two, when there are maybe LTE Networks in Briton and complain that his out of warranty device from days gone by (the new new iPad will after all support networks, once they exist and one knows what frequencies they might use) can only conect to the fast "3G" networks but not to the slower, battery guzzling "4G" networks?

Boy, something really must go wrong on that island.

What about all the people (millions) that own iPad ones or iPad2 and can only surf with 7,2 Mbs? Where is the "futurproofing" there? Apple KNEW that faster networks are coming on line, with iPad2 they WHERE online, still, I can not use it allthou it did say HDSPA on the pack.

In sueing heaven USA, how many complaints are going to come because it says that the fast networks are supported, up to 42 Mbs (and they actually work) but NO ONE in the States can actually use it? They have to be content with ****** "4G" and a maximum real life performance of around 7Mbs, something we here in Europe have for years (without the "4G" lable)
I go from Barcelona to Madrid in a train with over 200mph and have one, ONE fallback to 3,2Mbs for a total of 4mins. I walk in NYC from the Apple Store on 5th to 30 Rock and have 3 dropped calls, full network conection but no data whats so ever. Can I complain to the advertiser that its not working like in the comercial? No I can not. Your milage may vary.
 
You have a link pointing to this alleged investigation or is it more whimsy like your claim regarding the UK website.

I have already had an acknowledgement email from:

ComplaintsReception@ASA.Org.uk

Which I will forward to you if you wanted to PM me.

My Complaints number is: A12-190975

They have already called me today to tell me that it appears Apple could be in breach of the code and that they are "taking up" my complaint. Apparently multiple people have already highlighted this issue as being a serious breach of Advertising Rules and they asked me if I would be willing to supply further information if required to help them assess the complaints as fully as possible.

In my opinion, Apple have deliberately set out to mislead people with the naming of the product and through their website. The supplemental information is in smaller font than it should be and is delivered in a form that many non-technical people will not understand. Just because you think something is obvious, doesn't mean that everyone else is stupid for not being able to interpret something that concerns an area they are not specialist in.

I'm not suing, and I don't stand to gain at all financially from complaining. I did however, nearly buy "The New iPad" on the perfectly valid assumption that something labelled "4G" might actually support 4G once it rolled-out properly in my region. Many will not realise, Many more may never notice or even care. But if even one person can correctly argue that Apple's branding/advertising is in any way misleading, then Apple are in the wrong and should have action taken against them.

If my claim is upheld, I'll await your apology with baited breath.

PS. God can see you masturbating over that Steve Jobs poster.
 
By the way, the supplied link is from the UK website, either you have a reading comprehension problem or you are not being truthful: http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/specs/. Notice the little (3), and (4)...Almost verbatim minus the reference to the Verizon network.

To be fair, it does appear that they have tweaked the page a little bit since last week. They added this, for instance:

* 4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US, and on Bell, Rogers and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details.

Also, the bolded text below used to read "up to 4G LTE." It is now a little repetitive since HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA are mentioned twice. It also has a glaring grammatical error, which suggests a hasty update (that I'm sure will be fixed once someone at Apple notices).

The new iPad supports fast mobile networks around the world, including HSPA, HSPA*+ and DC-HSDPA.* So you can download content, stream video and browse the web at amazing speeds. And if you’re in a location without a 4G network, you’ll including HSPA, HSPA + and DC-HSDPA.

In the US, that last sentence reads:

And if you’re in a location without a 4G LTE network, you’ll still get access to fast 3G networks including HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA.
 
You really think that a brit will come up in a year or two, when there are maybe LTE Networks in Briton and complain that his out of warranty device from days gone by (the new new iPad will after all support networks, once they exist and one knows what frequencies they might use)

Yes, and the warranty won't matter one bit if he argues he bought the device on the pretence that it had a feature that it turned out it didn't really have. We also have something called the "Sale of Goods Act" that means we can get a refund or replacement up to six years after purchase if the product is deemed "Not Fit For Purpose". An ASA ruling that Apple wrongfully sold the iPad as 4G would be a valid and enforceable argument as the product is not fit for utilising 4th Generation networks in the country in which it is being sold.

Oh, and we do know what frequencies will be used in the UK/EU. It's 800/2600MHz and for Everything Everywhere: 1800MHz. The 800/2600MHz bit is enshrined in EU Law and will be the standard throughout Europe. So it is 100% certain that the iPad WiFi + 4G will NEVER work outside North America on 4G Networks.
 
Nope, not even in FantasyMacRumorsLand could I imagine that.
:p

Now that's something we can agree on. :D

Our equivalent of Silicon Valley is situated around a Roundabout in East London. I suppose technically that roundabout is "One Infinite Loop", but that's where any comparison to Apple ends.
 
I can not see that anything is misleading. Apple promisses "amaising speeds" and I am quite sure they deliver.
The lonely nerd that gets off over the lable "4G" KNOWS what it means here, he can not be mislead. The regular costumer could not care less, because he gets exactly whats being promised. In the US he can (coverage allowing) enjoy 4G speeds with 72Mbs chip capabillity (I do not think that has been made clear, that the chip supports these speeds, the providers however only offer about 10% of that) and if he got HDSPA coverage up to 42Mbs speeds, they translate in real life to a good 30-35 Mbs.

The problem with all this is the obismal LTE politics that nobody gets anymore. We are talking about mobile devices here, that means they move around and just a few 100km, in fact, a few meters, can make the difference between incopatable mashines.

As a costumer I want the fastest possible experience, the new iPad is the only device on the market atm that offers that.

The competition (well, there is not really anything but there will be, eventually) like the new Samsung tablet, gives me LTE for a network that is not in existence and might never be, when I travel to places (like the US) where they are, it is not working. Its all well and good to say "in a few years it might work here" but thats really no argument for a device I buy TODAY. If I need the slower and more expensive networks of tomorrow, I will buy my gadget tomorrow, then I know it will work.

Today I get the gadget that gives me the best experiance today. Thats the Ipad. Regardless what some people think that have nothing better to do then arguing about font size on Websites or how they might get there 15 seconds of fame on SKY NEWS as the bloke that pointed out a "flaw" in an ad nobody really cares about.
 
I have already had an acknowledgement email from:

ComplaintsReception@ASA.Org.uk

Which I will forward to you if you wanted to PM me.

My Complaints number is: A12-190975

They have already called me today to tell me that it appears Apple could be in breach of the code and that they are "taking up" my complaint. Apparently multiple people have already highlighted this issue as being a serious breach of Advertising Rules and they asked me if I would be willing to supply further information if required to help them assess the complaints as fully as possible.

In my opinion, Apple have deliberately set out to mislead people with the naming of the product and through their website. The supplemental information is in smaller font than it should be and is delivered in a form that many non-technical people will not understand. Just because you think something is obvious, doesn't mean that everyone else is stupid for not being able to interpret something that concerns an area they are not specialist in.

I'm not suing, and I don't stand to gain at all financially from complaining. I did however, nearly buy "The New iPad" on the perfectly valid assumption that something labelled "4G" might actually support 4G once it rolled-out properly in my region. Many will not realise, Many more may never notice or even care. But if even one person can correctly argue that Apple's branding/advertising is in any way misleading, then Apple are in the wrong and should have action taken against them.

If my claim is upheld, I'll await your apology with baited breath.

PS. God can see you masturbating over that Steve Jobs poster.

1. We will see. I suspect this will be thrown out in court simply because of semantic issues, not blatant attempts at frauding the public.

2. No need to wait with baited breath, I have no problem with saying I am wrong but in the same vein, I expect your apology as well when I am proven correct. If Apple is wrong, I say hammer them and hammer them hard.

3. My beliefs for or against God have nothing to do with your feeble attempt at humor. I could ask if your mommy found you jerking off in the closet? Your answer would be?

Until we hear one way or another about whether or not Apple is guilty, I kindly invite you to FOES...

----------

To be fair, it does appear that they have tweaked the page a little bit since last week. They added this, for instance:



Also, the bolded text below used to read "up to 4G LTE." It is now a little repetitive since HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA are mentioned twice. It also has a glaring grammatical error, which suggests a hasty update (that I'm sure will be fixed once someone at Apple notices).



In the US, that last sentence reads:

Nice catch.... It still goes to show that regardless (my opinion here) that they have checked the wording by now and "legally" can still use the same context. It will all shake out in a few weeks after the official launch.
 
Yes, and the warranty won't matter one bit if he argues he bought the device on the pretence that it had a feature that it turned out it didn't really have. We also have something called the "Sale of Goods Act" that means we can get a refund or replacement up to six years after purchase if the product is deemed "Not Fit For Purpose". An ASA ruling that Apple wrongfully sold the iPad as 4G would be a valid and enforceable argument as the product is not fit for utilising 4th Generation networks in the country in which it is being sold.

Oh, and we do know what frequencies will be used in the UK/EU. It's 800/2600MHz and for Everything Everywhere: 1800MHz. The 800/2600MHz bit is enshrined in EU Law and will be the standard throughout Europe. So it is 100% certain that the iPad WiFi + 4G will NEVER work outside North America on 4G Networks.

Thats sounds like a shoppers paradise. So I can get my money back because my two year old bleeding edge 3D TV is not supporting the new SKY 3D standard, my in the UK bought HD Satellite Receiver is not compatable with UK Satellite emissions, my shiny only 4 year old DAB radio is not receiving BBC broadcasts ect pp.
You know what? NOBODY CARES.

The frequencies by the way are by no means enshrined in EU Law, on the contrary. In Germany they using 700mhz (not compatable with the US 700 mhz because off differend bands) 1800 mhz, normally assosiated with Asia, is used in the UK, the 2600 Mhz from Germany (they use it in some parts of Cologne) are also using a different pair of bands the UK wants to use (but they are not even sure about that, they still have to "test") and in the middle is France, they have, surprise, there own ideas. Here in Spain there is a LTE Test in Barcelona,they showed it off a few weeks ago at the 3G, but frequencies have not been decided yet because there are issues with Marocco and Algeria, never mind the brits on Gibraltar. Continues in Europe seems to be 800mhz, but that is for stationary use in rural aereas and even there are different bands used.

Its by no means easy sailing and no matter what "4G" device you buy, there is no garantie that it will ever work even in its own limited network. Vodafone Germany sells for there own network in Germany a HTC phone, a Samsung Tablet and Huawei USB Sticks. Nothing works correctly. Stationary these devices perform resonably well, on the move only the USB stick is of any use. Vodafone says to wait till 2013 for the first regular devices that also can be used for longer then half a day mobile.

Considering the extreem small cell size the 2600 mhz comand, it will be quite some time and billions of Euros until any resonable network will be established. T-mobile and Vodafone in Germany estimating alone for the legal battles to put up additional cell towers a minimum off 2years.

Counting all that (and you are not really believing that in 12 Month anything anywhere is really anywhere with anything outside selected cells) the fragmantation off devices not only by continent or country, but WITHIN countries, that anybody really is bothered that the new iPad might not be supporting something in the future we do not even know if it ever arrives?
 
1. We will see. I suspect this will be thrown out in court simply because of semantic issues, not blatant attempts at frauding the public.

2. No need to wait with baited breath, I have no problem with saying I am wrong but in the same vein, I expect your apology as well when I am proven correct. If Apple is wrong, I say hammer them and hammer them hard.

3. My beliefs for or against God have nothing to do with your feeble attempt at humor. I could ask if your mommy found you jerking off in the closet? Your answer would be?

1) It probably won't go to court unless Apple objects to any ASA ruling. More likely is that the website will have to be changed & Apple will be banned from referring to "The New iPad" as "WiFi + 4G" in the UK, with Apple getting a slap on the wrist for being naughty and a letter telling them to be more careful in the future.

2) I feel I was misled. It appears (upon the completion of a few simple web searches) that many other people feel various levels of fury/confusion over this in multiple countries outside the US/Canada. Should I apologise for feeling that a claim from Apple was more than a little ambiguous? I think not. It's completely subjective.
 
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Thats sounds like a shoppers paradise. So I can get my money back because my two year old bleeding edge 3D TV is not supporting the new SKY 3D standard, my in the UK bought HD Satellite Receiver is not compatable with UK Satellite emissions, my shiny only 4 year old DAB radio is not receiving BBC broadcasts ect pp.
You know what? NOBODY CARES.

The frequencies by the way are by no means enshrined in EU Law, on the contrary. In Germany they using 700mhz (not compatable with the US 700 mhz because off differend bands) 1800 mhz, normally assosiated with Asia, is used in the UK, the 2600 Mhz from Germany (they use it in some parts of Cologne) are also using a different pair of bands the UK wants to use (but they are not even sure about that, they still have to "test") and in the middle is France, they have, surprise, there own ideas. Here in Spain there is a LTE Test in Barcelona,they showed it off a few weeks ago at the 3G, but frequencies have not been decided yet because there are issues with Marocco and Algeria, never mind the brits on Gibraltar. Continues in Europe seems to be 800mhz, but that is for stationary use in rural aereas and even there are different bands used.

Its by no means easy sailing and no matter what "4G" device you buy, there is no garantie that it will ever work even in its own limited network. Vodafone Germany sells for there own network in Germany a HTC phone, a Samsung Tablet and Huawei USB Sticks. Nothing works correctly. Stationary these devices perform resonably well, on the move only the USB stick is of any use. Vodafone says to wait till 2013 for the first regular devices that also can be used for longer then half a day mobile.

Considering the extreem small cell size the 2600 mhz comand, it will be quite some time and billions of Euros until any resonable network will be established. T-mobile and Vodafone in Germany estimating alone for the legal battles to put up additional cell towers a minimum off 2years.

Counting all that (and you are not really believing that in 12 Month anything anywhere is really anywhere with anything outside selected cells) the fragmantation off devices not only by continent or country, but WITHIN countries, that anybody really is bothered that the new iPad might not be supporting something in the future we do not even know if it ever arrives?

Great post. Too bad it won't sink in but at least you tried. Sonera is planning on bidding for an 800Mhz license in a year or so. Who knows when the first base stations will go up. Apple better stop all iPad sales and wait until this is cleared up. How dare they force us to use a faster technology (currently DC-HSPA+) when we can just sit and wait for future.

----------

1) It probably won't go to court unless Apple objects to any ASA ruling. More likely is that the website will have to be changed & Apple will be banned from referring to "The New iPad" as "WiFi + 4G" in the UK, with Apple getting a slap on the wrist for being naughty and a letter telling them to be more careful in the future.

2) I feel I was misled. It appears (upon the completion of a few simple web searches) that many other people feel various levels of fury/confusion over this in multiple countries outside the US/Canada. Should I apologise for feeling that a claim from Apple was more than a little ambiguous? I think not. It's completely subjective.
.

This is probably your best post ever. Frame it.... In disclosure, I too was a bit annoyed but I went back and read the tech specs. Being an engineer has its upside sometimes. We tend to go back and look at things again.

P.S. Sorry about your mom regardless.
 
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Good for you. Let's hope the next iPad will support the upcoming Spanish 800/2600 Mhz LTE network :D

No, I hope not. First, by the time that is up and running, we have the iPad 5 or later, I certainly would not like to be limited with my device from 2012 then.
Second, while the 800 might go ahaid, the 2600 is not sure at all, as there are problems with the neighbors.
And third, why should I be hoping for a 20Gbs Network with twice the battery use when I have a perfecly working 40mbs network in place? Today, not sometimes after 2015.
 
Thats sounds like a shoppers paradise. So I can get my money back because my two year old bleeding edge 3D TV is not supporting the new SKY 3D standard, my in the UK bought HD Satellite Receiver is not compatable with UK Satellite emissions, my shiny only 4 year old DAB radio is not receiving BBC broadcasts ect pp.
You know what? NOBODY CARES.

No, you couldn't get your money back because 3D is a model used to describe dimension. If the TV displays a degree of depth that is perceivable, it is rightly described as 3D.

4G is a defined standard that is not currently available in many countries in which the iPad is being sold. On these grounds alone, it is wrong to sell the iPad as "WiFi + 4G". It's just an additional kick in the teeth that it won't support the future rollouts.
 
1) It probably won't go to court unless Apple objects to any ASA ruling. More likely is that the website will have to be changed & Apple will be banned from referring to "The New iPad" as "WiFi + 4G" in the UK, with Apple getting a slap on the wrist for being naughty and a letter telling them to be more careful in the future.

2) I feel I was misled. It appears (upon the completion of a few simple web searches) that many other people feel various levels of fury/confusion over this in multiple countries outside the US/Canada. Should I apologise for feeling that a claim from Apple was more than a little ambiguous? I think not. It's completely subjective.

Ahh, you can make sense. Well, we will see. I still think a lot of effort for absolutely nothing.
Sorry about your mom.
 
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No, you couldn't get your money back because 3D is a model used to describe dimension. If the TV displays a degree of depth that is perceivable, it is rightly described as 3D.

4G is a defined standard that is not currently available in many countries in which the iPad is being sold. On these grounds alone, it is wrong to sell the iPad as "WiFi + 4G". It's just an additional kick in the teeth that it won't support the future rollouts.
Well, the TV is not showing any depth what so ever as it is not compatable with SKYs new standard. But I would never even think about complaining about that, because I KNEW at the time, that it was not even decided yet, what standard SKY would choose, same as we do not know today, what will finally (if anything at all) will transpire in the UK regarding LTE.
By your resoning the new iPad wifi+4G IS correctly named, as it HAS LTE capability. That it is not supporting YOUR specific LTE got nothing to do with it. Is it quoting your (not existing) LTE provider anywhere? Or is it maybe telling you, to ASK your provider if this device is supported? Btw, you ask BEFORE dropping 500 quid.
4G is by no means a defined standard, heck, according to the powers that decide, everything over 20Mbs is 4G, the US LTE for excample would NOT be 4G. Only in Britain they decided to go by technology, so GSM/UMTS is consideres 3G, LTE 4G, regardless that the former is faster and better adapted for mobile use. Is that important for the customer? No, what do I care how you call the chip as long as I get "amaising speeds"
 
The map shows countries with LTE

Your map is incorrect. I live in Finland and Finland is not blanketed with LTE...It's not even rolled out to most cities yet... Get a better map.

Well, what an ignorant statement. The map does not delineate between countries that have it fully deployed across the whole country, versus just small deployments.

Finland does in fact have LTE, while I understand you live there, and you are un-aware of the 3GPP (LTE) deployments there, it does not take away the fact that LTE is deployed in Finland.

3 Carriers in Finland have LTE.

Operator/Network Name_______Deployment___LTE Band
DNA Finland - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Dec 2011 - - - - - 2.6GHz
Elisa - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dec 2010 - - - - - 2.6GHz & 1800MHz
TeliaSonera - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nov 2010 - - - - - 2.6GHz
 
2) I feel I was misled. It appears (upon the completion of a few simple web searches) that many other people feel various levels of fury/confusion over this in multiple countries outside the US/Canada. Should I apologise for feeling that a claim from Apple was more than a little ambiguous? I think not. It's completely subjective.

This is really the crux of your argument. You feel cheated and mislead, not that you actually were. The feeling is there. As I previously posted, initially I felt the same but I went back and re-read the Apple sites (US, UK, German) and realized that while it unfavorable but I would rather have the faster practical speeds that DC-HSPA+ offers over LTE...

----------

Well, what an ignorant statement. The map does not delineate between countries that have it fully deployed across the whole country, versus just small deployments.

Finland does in fact have LTE, while I understand you live there, and you are un-aware of the 3GPP (LTE) deployments there, it does not take away the fact that LTE is deployed in Finland.

3 Carriers in Finland have LTE.

Operator/Network Name Deployment LTE Band
DNA Finland Dec 2011 2.6GHz
Elisa Dec 2010 2.6GHz & 1800MHz
TeliaSonera Nov 2010 2.6GHz

Are you sort reading challenged? The only issue I had a problem with is the fact that 4G is not blanketed all over Finland. The map that was used showed LTE as being pervasive throughout Finland and it isn't. Not even close. That was the only thing I commented on. My comment still stands...
 
This is really the crux of your argument. You feel cheated and mislead, not that you actually were. The feeling is there. As I previously posted, initially I felt the same but I went back and re-read the Apple sites (US, UK, German) and realized that while it unfavorable but I would rather have the faster practical speeds that DC-HSPA+ offers over LTE...

----------



Are you sort reading challenged? The only issue I had a problem with is the fact that 4G is not blanketed all over Finland. The map that was used showed LTE as being pervasive throughout Finland and it isn't. Not even close. That was the only thing I commented on. My comment still stands...

Thanks for your clarification - then no map, of any cellular infrastructure is correct. As you correctly pointed out, LTE is not fully deployed in Finland, nor IN ANY COUNTRY. In fact, wait for it, GSM is not fully deployed. The map was NOT a representation of the coverage. The map was a representation of the 'COUNTRIES THAT HAVE ADOPTED LTE' - That's it.

It is not a coverage map, get it?

Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution
 
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