International 4G iPad Models Will Work on AT&T, Not on LTE in Home Countries

[sapporobaby]

no Special point just joining againt, the conversation to improve my english so I can move out of this miserable hellhole some day

Improve your English? Why didn't you say so...

Mita kuulu?

Are you in Helsinki or Espoo?

----------

No, I don't, but the text that now reads "Cellular data service for iPad is available from the following carriers. Each carrier offers a range of data plan options" was changed from the previous days "4G service for iPad is available from the following carriers: [3, Telia, Telenor, Tele2]"

Similar to what the Finnish site says now and originally?

**** The new iPad supports fast mobile networks the world over. So you can browse the web, stream content or download a film at incredibly fast speeds. It also works on GSM/UMTS worldwide network technologies, including HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA — the fastest 3G networks out there. You’ll see downlink speeds up to 42 Mbps with DC-HSDPA and up to 21.1 Mbps with HSPA+.2 ****

As I have not seen the Swedish site I can't say but I fine it hard to believe that the two sites were different.

 

[xinu]

Improve your English? Why didn't you say so...

Mita kuulu?

Are you in Helsinki or Espoo?

Helsinki is a urban-ghetto these days, I stay away as far as I can
I have lived there couple of years. Too expensive city to live.

Countryside. That is the real Finland.. 50.000 lakes and silence.

 

[sapporobaby]

Helsinki is a urban-ghetto these days, I stay away as far as I can
I have lived there couple of years. Too expensive city to live.

Countryside. That is the real Finland.. 50.000 lakes and silence.

Well, yes in a way but this is how it is in most cities. They are the melting pots of society.

 

[xinu]

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120312PD205.html

Apple likely to adopt slim bezel displays for 7.85-inch iPads, say sources
Siu Han, Taipei; Steve Shen, DIGITIMES [Monday 12 March 2012]
Apple is expected to adopt slim bezel displays for the highly speculated 7.85-inch iPads to increase the viewing area of the small-size tablets, according to sources in the upstream supply chain

The 7.85-inch iPad reportedly is designed to take on comparable models from Amazon and Samsung Electronics in order to maintain Apple's leadership position, said the sources, adding that Samsung seems is expected to launch its next generation 7- and 10.1-inch Galaxy Tab tablet PCs soon.

Although the 7.85-inch iPads may not adopt Retina displays as in the recently released new iPads, the 7.85-inch model is likely to use IPS/FFS panels from LG Display and probably AU Optronics (AUO), the sources indicated.

The 7.85-inch iPads will target the sub-US$300 segment and are likely to be priced US$249-299, the sources estimated.

 

[ikkeson]

How many times do we need to repeat this? The iPad WILL WORK in your countries. It just won't use LTE. However, they added DC-HSDPA and HSPA+ 21 to the new iPad, which is just as fast in real-world activity as LTE is here in the US. Are you really saying that if they had just marketed it as 3.5G/3.75G (or whatever your carriers consider DC-HSDPA and HSPA+) you wouldn't have been tempted to buy it?

But it will not work with 4G/LTE, as described on the local Apple website. And that is the whole issue. Or it works, or it doesn't and it this case it doesn't.

 

[sapporobaby]

But it will not work with 4G/LTE, as described on the local Apple website. And that is the whole issue. Or it works, or it doesn't and it this case it doesn't.

I'll try to go slow for you. LTE works in the US, and works in Europe but the iPad does not support European frequencies. Was that slow enough for you? Apple did not "say" the iPad will work with LTE on European frequencies. If you can prove this, then post a link or a picture. Otherwise you are just whining about something that does not exist.

 

[flynndean]

I've never seen so many people missing the point.

I'm going to use the UK as an example (because I live there). The UK Communications Watchdog Ofcom defines 4G as being:

LTE/LTE-Advanced & WiMAX/WiMA

And 3G as being:

UMTS/ HSPA/HSPA+

EU Member States are standardising on the 800MHz and 2.6GHz Spectrums for 4G which means that "The New iPad", which has models being advertised in the UK as being "Wi-Fi + 4G" alongside some nice little thumbnail images of the major Network Operators in the UK whose 4G networks will NOT be supported by "The New iPad", or any other EU 4G Network whether operational or proposed.

Now I don't have a problem with that per se. I understand that the US is the home market for Apple and represents the single biggest LTE Market in the world right now, and that the Qualcomm Chips required to support multiple Spectrum Standards simultaneously aren't ready yet...

What I DO have a problem with, is being misled into thinking that I am buying an iPad with capabilities that it does not have, and will never have. I don't care that here in Europe we have vastly superior networks that are comparable, if not better than real-world speeds achieved by 4G in the US. The fact of the matter is that iPads are being sold in Europe as having 4G, when by Apple's (and Ofcom's) own definition of 4G, the device does not support that functionality in a region in which it is being sold.

The Advertising Standards Agency (ASA) in the UK has a Code of Conduct that all Marketing (including websites) must abide by. It's really long & boring but contains the following snippet which I've dug out for you out of the kindness of my heart:

"Marketing communications must not mislead the consumer by omitting material information. They must not mislead by hiding material information or presenting it in an unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely manner.

Material information is information that the consumer needs to make informed decisions in relation to a product."

This Code is based on EU Guidelines around Consumer Law and Consumer Protection. All EU Member States will have very similar laws.

The crucial part here is the ambiguity. Unlike in the US, it is the case in the EU that even if Apple caveats with small-print, if there is any chance that the customer could be mislead by the content of their description of the product or associated advertising, warranty information, pricing or competitor comparison, Apple is in breach of this code.

"Wi-Fi + 4G" is DEFINITELY misleading to the consumer through it's inherent ambiguity (I'm fairly technical and I wouldn't have known the details unless I'd seen this news article). Apple can (and I'm sure WILL) be successfully sued under several EU-wide Consumer Protection Laws that weigh very heavily in favour of the Customer and leave no room for Manufacturer excuses.

The complaint to the ASA I just made personally (it's really easy - UK-based people can find the relevant link below) WILL be upheld legally, forcing Apple to remove all mention of 4G from it's packaging and both material and online advertising. We're talking box redesigns, recalls, not to mention no-questions asked refunds to any person who claims that they bought an iPad 3 in good faith only to discover it didn't have the features implied. I've seen it many times before.

LINK: http://bit.ly/wtcw2A

It's a stupid oversight that I predict will be even more embarrassing for Apple than "antenna-gate". We simply have to wait for the mainstream media to catch-up.

You'd think Apple would use some of that stockpiled cash to hire some decent lawyers...

 

[ikkeson]

I'll try to go slow for you. LTE works in the US, and works in Europe but the iPad does not support European frequencies. Was that slow enough for you? Apple did not "say" the iPad will work with LTE on European frequencies. If you can prove this, then post a link or a picture. Otherwise you are just whining about something that does not exist.

It states on the Apple website:"Data plan is sold separately. 4G LTE coverage is not available in all areas and varies by carrier. See your carrier for details."

This states that if 4G/LTE becomes available here, I will be able to use it on the new ipad.

And I am not whining, i am talking about a problem that occurs with the launch of a new product.

 

[Chlloret]

I've never seen so many people missing the point.

I'm going to use the UK as an example (because I live there). The UK Communications Watchdog Ofcom defines 4G as being:

LTE/LTE-Advanced & WiMAX/WiMA

And 3G as being:

UMTS/ HSPA/HSPA+

EU Member States are standardising on the 800MHz and 2.6GHz Spectrums for 4G which means that "The New iPad", which has models being advertised in the UK as being "Wi-Fi + 4G" alongside some nice little thumbnail images of the major Network Operators in the UK whose 4G networks will NOT be supported by "The New iPad", or any other EU 4G Network whether operational or proposed.

Now I don't have a problem with that per se. I understand that the US is the home market for Apple and represents the single biggest LTE Market in the world right now, and that the Qualcomm Chips required to support multiple Spectrum Standards simultaneously aren't ready yet...

What I DO have a problem with, is being misled into thinking that I am buying an iPad with capabilities that it does not have, and will never have. I don't care that here in Europe we have vastly superior networks that are comparable, if not better than real-world speeds achieved by 4G in the US. The fact of the matter is that iPads are being sold in Europe as having 4G, when by Apple's (and Ofcom's) own definition of 4G, the device does not support that functionality in a region in which it is being sold.

The Advertising Standards Agency (ASA) in the UK has a Code of Conduct that all Marketing (including websites) must abide by. It's really long & boring but contains the following snippet which I've dug out for you out of the kindness of my heart:

"Marketing communications must not mislead the consumer by omitting material information. They must not mislead by hiding material information or presenting it in an unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely manner.

Material information is information that the consumer needs to make informed decisions in relation to a product."

This Code is based on EU Guidelines around Consumer Law and Consumer Protection. All EU Member States will have very similar laws.

The crucial part here is the ambiguity. Unlike in the US, it is the case in the EU that even if Apple caveats with small-print, if there is any chance that the customer could be mislead by the content of their description of the product or associated advertising, warranty information, pricing or competitor comparison, Apple is in breach of this code.

"Wi-Fi + 4G" is DEFINITELY misleading to the consumer through it's inherent ambiguity (I'm fairly technical and I wouldn't have known the details unless I'd seen this news article). Apple can (and I'm sure WILL) be successfully sued under several EU-wide Consumer Protection Laws that weigh very heavily in favour of the Customer and leave no room for Manufacturer excuses.

The complaint to the ASA I just made personally (it's really easy - UK-based people can find the relevant link below) WILL be upheld legally, forcing Apple to remove all mention of 4G from it's packaging and both material and online advertising. We're talking box redesigns, recalls, not to mention no-questions asked refunds to any person who claims that they bought an iPad 3 in good faith only to discover it didn't have the features implied. I've seen it many times before.

LINK: http://bit.ly/wtcw2A

It's a stupid oversight that I predict will be even more embarrassing for Apple than "antenna-gate". We simply have to wait for the mainstream media to catch-up.

You'd think Apple would use some of that stockpiled cash to hire some decent lawyers...

Good luck complaining. The new iPad IS supporting 4G LTE, in the US,Kanada and Mexico. It IS supporting European FASTER network speeds NOT on LTE. Speedwise, all of the supported networks class as 4G and I wonder who you want to convince that its illigal advertising because it is not supporting LTE in the UK, specially since there IS NO LTE in the UK.

There WILL BE NO LTE for quite some time to come and I do not find any clause that says that the device has to fullfill the claimed tech where its sold, because then you could not sell anything.

In my house in Florida there is no LTE coverage, so I should sue because the pack or the website says its supporting it? it IS supporting it, just not in my driveway, tough.

Besides, the two companies in the UK that want to come first (even before the frequencies are allocated) t-mobile and orange (Everything anywhere) are testing in the 1800 Mhz Band, now, thats not conforming with the 800/2600 mhz bands for the rest of Europe. How many different devices should Apple build so that they work in a few years when this is becoming noticable?

In 2013/2014, when UK LTE goes live with any amount of coverage, the new new or the extreemly new iPad will cater for your needs then. In the mean time, the new iPad will beat any other device in speed with the today existing 4G speedy networks. I know the brits do not classify 42Gbs networks 4G, but 20 Mbs LTE is, God knows why. As a customer I like the fastest possible speed, regardless of the acronym.

 

[mrunix]

Better modem

Maybe they should have gone to former Ericsson instead of Qualcomm!

But they picked Infineon for iPhone and did there own antenna so what can be expected

http://www.stericsson.com/products/m7400-thor.jsp

 

[flynndean]

Good luck complaining. The new iPad IS supporting 4G LTE, in the US,Kanada and Mexico. It IS supporting European FASTER network speeds NOT on LTE. Speedwise, all of the supported networks class as 4G and I wonder who you want to convince that its illigal advertising because it is not supporting LTE in the UK, specially since there IS NO LTE in the UK.

There WILL BE NO LTE for quite some time to come and I do not find any clause that says that the device has to fullfill the claimed tech where its sold, because then you could not sell anything.

In my house in Florida there is no LTE coverage, so I should sue because the pack or the website says its supporting it? it IS supporting it, just not in my driveway, tough.

Besides, the two companies in the UK that want to come first (even before the frequencies are allocated) t-mobile and orange (Everything anywhere) are testing in the 1800 Mhz Band, now, thats not conforming with the 800/2600 mhz bands for the rest of Europe. How many different devices should Apple build so that they work in a few years when this is becoming noticable?

In 2013/2014, when UK LTE goes live with any amount of coverage, the new new or the extreemly new iPad will cater for your needs then. In the mean time, the new iPad will beat any other device in speed with the today existing 4G speedy networks. I know the brits do not classify 42Gbs networks 4G, but 20 Mbs LTE is, God knows why. As a customer I like the fastest possible speed, regardless of the acronym.

All of what you say is very nice, but in the eyes of Consumer Law in the EU, only the following matters:

1) Certain SKUs of "The New iPad" are being advertised in the EU as "WiFi + 4G"

2) "The New iPad" does not support 4G as defined by the EU Statute and (somewhat ironically) Apple.

3) It is possible that someone might interpret the statement "WiFi + 4G" to mean that "The New iPad" might be reasonably assumed to support either existing or proposed 4G Networks.

If even one person can successfully argue that Apple's description could lead to ambiguity and potential confusion and is misleading, Apple is in breach of EU Law. It matters nothing that a future iPad might have been released by the time of full 4G rollout, I might have potentially bought this version of the iPad with the reasonable expectation that it would support the 4G Standard as defined by the region in which I reside (small print or otherwise).

Personally, I nearly bought multiple iPads on the basis that they were somewhat future-proofed in supporting 4G. No amount of blind defense of Apple by fans changes that, and I am not the only one who made that assumption based on Apple's marketing material/website. I'm lucky that I read about the lack of support before entering my Credit Card Details. Thousands won't.

Are you 100% certain that by the end of this year when the first LTE networks are available in the UK, that all the people who bought "Wi-Fi + 4G" iPads are going to be happy to purchase a brand-new iPad if they want 4G support as advertised?

My hunch is that they will be really pissed-off and will have a perfectly valid legal case against Apple. I have just as strong a hunch that Apple will be brought to court sooner rather than later, and will rightly lose.

 

[Chlloret]

All of what you say is very nice, but in the eyes of Consumer Law in the EU, only the following matters:

1) Certain SKUs of "The New iPad" are being advertised in the EU as "WiFi + 4G"

2) "The New iPad" does not support 4G as defined by the EU Statute and (somewhat ironically) Apple.

3) It is possible that someone might interpret the statement "WiFi + 4G" to mean that "The New iPad" might be reasonably assumed to support either existing or proposed 4G Networks.

If even one person can successfully argue that Apple's description could lead to ambiguity and potential confusion and is misleading, Apple is in breach of EU Law. It matters nothing that a future iPad might have been released by the time of full 4G rollout, I might have potentially bought this version of the iPad with the reasonable expectation that it would support the 4G Standard as defined by the region in which I reside (small print or otherwise).

Personally, I nearly bought multiple iPads on the basis that they were somewhat future-proofed in supporting 4G. No amount of blind defense of Apple by fans changes that, and I am not the only one who made that assumption based on Apple's marketing material/website. I'm lucky that I read about the lack of support before entering my Credit Card Details. Thousands won't.

Are you 100% certain that by the end of this year when the first LTE networks are available in the UK, that all the people who bought "Wi-Fi + 4G" iPads are going to be happy to purchase a brand-new iPad if they want 4G support as advertised?

My hunch is that they will be really pissed-off and will have a perfectly valid legal case against Apple. I have just as strong a hunch that Apple will be brought to court sooner rather than later, and will rightly lose.

To 1), it IS wifi and 4G
To 2), no device is, as the one Gbs networks that where thought of to be 4G are a really long way off.
I really, really belive, that the term 4G is associated with higher speeds, not the defenition by EU regulators.
To 3) if you insist on 2), no device this decade will support this, there are no existing or proposed "true" 4G networks.

I also belive, that yes, if a new iPad buyer gets 42Gbs speed he will be very happy in the UK, once the networks build there infrastructure up to that point as already done here in spain.
When then the UK version of LTE arrives (end of this year is really a tad optimistic), proposed with "up to" 20-40Mbs, and the punter realises, that this slower tech is not supported (as he should know BEFORE buying) he probably could not care less.

I think the confusion here is, that people think that LTE is better or faster, this is not so. In the States it is true, but not in Europe. LTE is perfect for rural devellopement, fast internet to the home without the hassle of putting lines in the ground.

I for one would be quite embarrased to go to court and say after all this discussion, after reading the website, after being in the store ect, I STILL was not capable to see that the US LTE chip was not working on a non existing network in the UK and Apple duped me into using a faster conection instead.

 

[sapporobaby]

It states on the Apple website:"Data plan is sold separately. 4G LTE coverage is not available in all areas and varies by carrier. See your carrier for details."

This states that if 4G/LTE becomes available here, I will be able to use it on the new ipad.

And I am not whining, i am talking about a problem that occurs with the launch of a new product.

Yes but there are MANY types of LTE. Apple is using one that doesn't work with your iPad. It is that simple. Really it is...

 

[sapporobaby]

Finally the answer... Please read, learn, digest and get over it...

Problem solved and explained. While I am not a fan of CNET, I have to admit that the LTE issue is laid bare.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-5...internationally/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

 

[meatballs]

Considering that the swedish Apple website initially stated specifically that LTE would work on the four major carriers in the country before changing the info after about 24 hours, the problem was hardly the customers ability to read.
Anyone still denies that Apple mislead us?

Yup I saw that too. If Apple themselves got it wrong I can only imagine what will happen when this thing hits the shelves There will be some kind of legal action that will force Apple to can the 4G marketing in Europe.

 

[theluggage]

To 1), it IS wifi and 4G

No - it is WiFi and North American 4G. That is an important qualification that Apple only address in a footnote to the technical specs - and even that doesn't make it clear that it will not work with proposed LTE standards outside of the US.

To 2), no device is, as the one Gbs networks that where thought of to be 4G are a really long way off.

Not true - in the UK the communications authorities define "LTE" as 4G and HSPA variants as 3G. The Apple website in the UK (http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/features/) describes LTE as "4G" and DC-HSDPA/HSPA+ as "3G".

To 3) if you insist on 2), no device this decade will support this, there are no existing or proposed "true" 4G networks.

"4G LTE" networks are already being piloted in the UK. Carriers* are already mentioning in their websites that 4G is coming.

When then the UK version of LTE arrives (end of this year is really a tad optimistic), proposed with "up to" 20-40Mbs, and the punter realises, that this slower tech is not supported (as he should know BEFORE buying) he probably could not care less.

That's assuming that UK carriers continue rolling out "fast 3G" coverage once they start offering 4G, so that all areas have the choice (You might end up in an area with good 4G and crap 3G - If LTE is going to be the solution to rural domestic broadband woes it may well be that rural areas get 4G before they get reliable "fast 3G"). It assumes that they'll offer the same tariffs on both systems. It assumes that you don't take trips to Finland (or wherever) that has better 4G coverage than 3G.

If someone sees a product advertised as supporting 4G they'd be entitled to think "great - I'll be able to use 4G if it turns out to be more suitable for my purposes". The "4G" in the iPad offers no such future proofing outside of NA and advertising it on otherwise fully-localised websites is misleading - and EU trading laws are quite pro-consumer on what constitutes "misleading", tending to judge on what the headline claims rather than the disclaimers in the small print.

(* E.g. Three mention 4G at http://support.three.co.uk/SRVS/CGI...t_cat=signal,varset_subcat=3819,Case=obj(4040) - but carriers usually block international access to their sites)

 

[KPOM]

"4G LTE" networks are already being piloted in the UK. Carriers* are already mentioning in their websites that 4G is coming.

It's probably still a year or so away, though. By then, there will be more chipsets and antennas supporting multiple frequencies. As the CNet article pointed out, while the world seems to be in agreement that LTE should be the underlying technology, frequency spectrum is even more fragmented than in the 2G and 3G days.

That's assuming that UK carriers continue rolling out "fast 3G" coverage once they start offering 4G, so that all areas have the choice (You might end up in an area with good 4G and crap 3G - If LTE is going to be the solution to rural domestic broadband woes it may well be that rural areas get 4G before they get reliable "fast 3G").

Perhaps, but the vast majority of people live in urban and suburban areas now, so fast 3G will be in ready supply for them.

In any case, don't think of LTE being of any use to the average American living in a rural area. While Verizon is also toying with the idea of decommissioning its DSL networks and moving rural users to LTE, for the most part, its LTE network works in cities right now, but not rural areas. AT&T is further behind, operating in only 23 cities now, with 12 more on the way by summer. It will be a few years before rural areas see LTE.

If someone sees a product advertised as supporting 4G they'd be entitled to think "great - I'll be able to use 4G if it turns out to be more suitable for my purposes". The "4G" in the iPad offers no such future proofing outside of NA and advertising it on otherwise fully-localised websites is misleading - and EU trading laws are quite pro-consumer on what constitutes "misleading", tending to judge on what the headline claims rather than the disclaimers in the small print.

What ever happened to the concepts of caveat emptor and personal responsibility? Anyway, the headlines on Apple's site just claim that it is compatible with "super fast" networks. Yes, it is advertised as the "iPad WiFi + 4G," so perhaps the advertising regulators will request Apple to change it to "Wi-Fi + Wireless" or something similar, but I doubt they will require significant changes. I also doubt that the lack of European LTE will cost Apple much in the way of sales.

 

[Interesting_Way_924]

Taiwan is on WiMAX. Their LTE network won't even be up until 2017 last I heard.

Taiwan's wiMAX is a joke. Fact is Taiwan is like every other country out there. They're completely 3G HSDPA compatible, and thats what every ad for every carrier shows. If there's WiMAX coverage there, they've already abandoned it. The phones there are the exact same ones you would get in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Europe, etc. Otherwise you'd see them push WiMAX phones like for Sprint there...

 

[sapporobaby]

Yup I saw that too. If Apple themselves got it wrong I can only imagine what will happen when this thing hits the shelves There will be some kind of legal action that will force Apple to can the 4G marketing in Europe.

I saw Bigfoot stomping through the woods one day too...

I think that you are intentionally trying to be obtuse. There is no reason that I can see for your lack of comprehension.

 

[Lennholm]

Problem solved and explained. While I am not a fan of CNET, I have to admit that the LTE issue is laid bare.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-5...internationally/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

Explained, sure, but solved? Hardly. All that article concludes is that US customers wont know the difference because their LTE is so crappy anyways

 

[Chlloret]

Explained, sure, but solved? Hardly. All that article concludes is that US customers wont know the difference because their LTE is so crappy anyways

LTE is crappy anyplace atm, a bit crappier maybe in the States but Europe only shines LTE wise (in the few square feet you get reception) when you use it stationary. And even then you get about 30% of the promised bandwith and only when you are lucky enouch to be alone in your cell.

That will change, sure, but not in the short term and as the article says, since 3G is so well build up and so fast, the costumer is not going to notice a difference. Right now, 3G with up to 42Mbs ( 30-35Mbs real life) outclasses mobile LTE in every way. Coverage, speed, handover, data limits, voice cababillity, price.

 

[flynndean]

What ever happened to the concepts of caveat emptor and personal responsibility? Anyway, the headlines on Apple's site just claim that it is compatible with "super fast" networks. Yes, it is advertised as the "iPad WiFi + 4G," so perhaps the advertising regulators will request Apple to change it to "Wi-Fi + Wireless" or something similar, but I doubt they will require significant changes. I also doubt that the lack of European LTE will cost Apple much in the way of sales.

Certainly in most countries outside of the US, those concepts are superseded by a consumer's right to not be misled.

Surely the name of a product is the most important description available to the consumer? If the ASA (or the equivalent bodies in other EU Countries) uphold a single complaint, ANYBODY has the right through legal precedent to return their iPad due to the misleading advertising and sue Apple. It will involve ugly stickers being sent out to cover up the words "4G" from existing boxes. It'll mean salespeople being legally obliged at the point of sale to explain in detail to the person purchasing that 4G is not actually possible with the device they are purchasing anywhere outside of North America, it will involve a LOT of negative press less than a couple of years after Antenna-gate and with far more serious ramifications.

Apple is not untouchable, nor Teflon-coated. Their current success relies on a very narrow suite of products and being "fashionable" (which even they admit in their Annual Report to Shareholders is a significant weakness and threat to their future Share-Price). Enough negative press, or an unsuccessful Product Launch or two...and they're suddenly floundering like it was 1997. Just look at IBM in the early 90s. You're talking about the biggest company by market capitalisation, but the circa 50th largest company by revenue. Admittedly they have large cash assets, but that position at the top is not sustainable long-term unless they diversify.

Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Cisco, HP, Oracle, SAP, Google, Sun, AMD, EMC, Yahoo, Seagate & Symantec ALL spend more than Apple on R&D. Microsoft alone spends x10 times as much as Apple and would eat through Apple's Cash Pile solely on R&D spending within a decade.

Eventually Apple won't be the Flavor of the Month and the aforementioned companies are all better-positioned to survive a fluctuation in demand for their products, simply because their businesses are more diversified and their willingness to spend on innovation more apparent. Admittedly, it's not all about Dollar-Spend, but when was the last time Apple truly innovated instead of just throwing a load of existing or refined technologies into a prettier box? Eventually someone else will do things better, prettier & sooner to the birth of a new technology or fad, just like Apple did to Sony (who were arguably best-positioned to take advantage of the rise of MP3 Players at the turn of this Century) and to MS with the iPad by being better at Packaging and Marketing the Tablet-based technologies that Bill Gates had been talking about as being "the future" for years.

Microsoft is gunning for the mainstream with it's Metro UI and the natural extension will be for people to also have this UI in their Phones & Tablets & Games Consoles. MS is playing the long game. They might be 3rd in terms of pocket-adoption now, but Windows 8 is their Trojan Horse.

Google is also poised to capture the Zeitgeist with a product release at some point (if they can stop garnering negative press around Privacy), and spreads it's risk factor through intelligent partnerships rather than throwing all it's eggs in one basket. Android is already in many more pockets worldwide than iOS, and they're dominating the Budget and mid-range tablet market (but with all the real risk taken-on by the hardware manufacturers)

I'm not saying that misguided use of the term "4G" in territories outside the US is going to kill Apple. What DOES concern me is the fact that no-one at Apple seemed to consider the ramifications or think this through. A company is only as good as it's reputation, and this fiasco was easily avoidable (and believe me, the tabloids in the UK are going to have a riot with this story). If Apple are capable of this kind of error, then what other PR mistakes are potentially lurking around the corner?

Remember...there's no Steve Jobs any more to gloss over stuff like this, and the market is far more likely to interpret Product Launch controversies as indicating a lack of leadership than when the CEO was an icon rather than merely a very capable man...

 

[Chlloret]

Certainly in most countries outside of the US, those concepts are superseded by a consumer's right to not be misled.

Surely the name of a product is the most important description available to the consumer? If the ASA (or the equivalent bodies in other EU Countries) uphold a single complaint, ANYBODY has the right through legal precedent to return their iPad due to the misleading advertising and sue Apple. It will involve ugly stickers being sent out to cover up the words "4G" from existing boxes. It'll mean salespeople being legally obliged at the point of sale to explain in detail to the person purchasing that 4G is not actually possible with the device they are purchasing anywhere outside of North America, it will involve a LOT of negative press less than a couple of years after Antenna-gate and with far more serious ramifications.

Apple is not untouchable, nor Teflon-coated. Their current success relies on a very narrow suite of products and being "fashionable" (which even they admit in their Annual Report to Shareholders is a significant weakness and threat to their future Share-Price). Enough negative press, or an unsuccessful Product Launch or two...and they're suddenly floundering like it was 1997. Just look at IBM in the early 90s. You're talking about the biggest company by market capitalisation, but the circa 50th largest company by revenue. Admittedly they have large cash assets, but that position at the top is not sustainable long-term unless they diversify.

Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Cisco, HP, Oracle, SAP, Google, Sun, AMD, EMC, Yahoo, Seagate & Symantec ALL spend more than Apple on R&D. Microsoft alone spends x10 times as much as Apple and would eat through Apple's Cash Pile solely on R&D spending within a decade.

Eventually Apple won't be the Flavor of the Month and the aforementioned companies are all better-positioned to survive a fluctuation in demand for their products, simply because their businesses are more diversified and their willingness to spend on innovation more apparent. Admittedly, it's not all about Dollar-Spend, but when was the last time Apple truly innovated instead of just throwing a load of existing or refined technologies into a prettier box? Eventually someone else will do things better, prettier & sooner to the birth of a new technology or fad, just like Apple did to Sony (who were arguably best-positioned to take advantage of the rise of MP3 Players at the turn of this Century) and to MS with the iPad by being better at Packaging and Marketing the Tablet-based technologies that Bill Gates had been talking about as being "the future" for years.

Microsoft is gunning for the mainstream with it's Metro UI and the natural extension will be for people to also have this UI in their Phones & Tablets & Games Consoles. MS is playing the long game. They might be 3rd in terms of pocket-adoption now, but Windows 8 is their Trojan Horse.

Google is also poised to capture the Zeitgeist with a product release at some point (if they can stop garnering negative press around Privacy), and spreads it's risk factor through intelligent partnerships rather than throwing all it's eggs in one basket. Android is already in many more pockets worldwide than iOS, and they're dominating the Budget and mid-range tablet market (but with all the real risk taken-on by the hardware manufacturers)

I'm not saying that misguided use of the term "4G" in territories outside the US is going to kill Apple. What DOES concern me is the fact that no-one at Apple seemed to consider the ramifications or think this through. A company is only as good as it's reputation, and this fiasco was easily avoidable (and believe me, the tabloids in the UK are going to have a riot with this story). If Apple are capable of this kind of error, then what other PR mistakes are potentially lurking around the corner?

Remember...there's no Steve Jobs any more to gloss over stuff like this, and the market is far more likely to interpret Product Launch controversies as indicating a lack of leadership than when the CEO was an icon rather than merely a very capable man...

I really hope for you that you do not do this for a living. The UK, specially the UK, where until now every second iPad and other Apple stuff (ex iPhone) is brought in directly from the states, the UK, that has the highest quota of regular business and private travel between the two countries, the UK is going to be the last complaining about a product that allows them finally to roam on both continents with speed.
What in your opinion would have been gained to install a LTE chip that will support the non existing british networks (that the frequencies and bands are not even known until next year seems to be a meer technicallity as well) that will not work in britons favorite travel destination?
Fact remains, the new iPad IS supporting LTE 4G. It is NOT supporting it in the UK but then, no device is, because IT DOES NOT EXIST.

 

[sapporobaby]

Explained, sure, but solved? Hardly. All that article concludes is that US customers wont know the difference because their LTE is so crappy anyways

So you know the difference between LTE systems? If I popped a 800Mhz LTE phone down next to you and a 2100MHZ phone, you would be able to tell what frequencies they are on? Really, your lack of comprehension is unfathomable.

 

[immaculate]

erm, no, the USA is not Britain's favorite destination

I
What in your opinion would have been gained to install a LTE chip that will support the non existing british networks (that the frequencies and bands are not even known until next year seems to be a meer technicallity as well) that will not work in britons favorite travel destination.

The latest official figures (2009) show that the USA was only fourth on the list of British holiday destinations, with about 3m visits by people from the UK.

Spain had almost 12m visits, France almost 10m, and Ireland about 3.5m. Italy, Germany, Greece, the Netherlands, Portugal and Turkey each had around 2m.

So that means about 37.5m holiday visits were made to countries where Britons could not and could never use the so-called iPad 4G, and about 3m were made to one where they could. Just for your info.