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"miles better in that regard than almost any Android phone". Hilarious.

This would be easily solved if Apple allowed users to revert to the OS that runs best on their device. But Apple wants to keep claims that they're not "fragmented like Android is". It's this very thing what drove me away from iPhone forever.

The irony is that that fragmentation is not what cripples Apple phones, it's hardware. So them pushing and peddling the software that slows older devices to a crawl, and then cannot be reverted, is more than effective in driving the upgrade. You need to because the hardware can barely run on older devices; they're optimized for the OS they came with and only just.

Android phones do not suffer as a result of OS fragmentation, probably because they're usually loaded with powerful hardware specs that exceed the OS needs.

And Android functionality is ahead of iOS on the software side, so upgrading the OS to gain features becomes somewhat moot, unlike iPhone. I can live without iris scanning so long as I can split-screen multitask, have file-system access, run current apps, and customize the UI to MY liking. All features that Apple STILL doesn't have.

Yet iOS 11 breaks an iPad Pro. Ridiculous.

Obvious Android fanboy alert...snore...your idea of "powerful hardware specs" is misguided. Just because a phone has 32 cores and however much memory doesn't mean the OS is going to use it effectively.

Optimised for the OS they came with and only just? Disagree. I've never found an iDevice be slow with the next major version.

That's the problem, it keeps downloading itself on my devices. There is no way to turn off the automatic download of Apple updates. It's annoying, and wastes space of those of us happy with their devices as is.

Even freaking windows has a setting to completely turn off updates!

That android argument is getting really really old, My friend has a three year old android 6 marshmallow, his device is still working, getting operating system and app updates

OK, with you on the downloading, that is indeed annoying on an older device where you're unlikely to have loads of spare storage capacity. Perhaps that could be rethought.

Android though, yes some people and devices are still OK, but plenty of people with plenty of devices get no OS updates at all - or if they do, months after it should have been available.

As for apps, my iPad 3 is stuck on iOS 9 and still getting app updates...my iPhone 5 work phone is now stuck on iOS 10 and, yep, still getting app updates...
 
That's the problem, it keeps downloading itself on my devices. There is no way to turn off the automatic download of Apple updates. It's annoying, and wastes space of those of us happy with their devices as is.

Even freaking windows has a setting to completely turn off updates!

That android argument is getting really really old, My friend has a three year old android 6 marshmallow, his device is still working, getting operating system and app updates
You can install a tvOS profile which will stop the updates basically.
 
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I've learnt the hard way after having my iPhone 4 rendered a piece of treacly junk after updating to iOS 9 that the best iOS is the one your phone comes with. Happy with the speed and battery usage I have on my 6 to ever fall for the upgrades again.
 
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I've learnt the hard way after having my iPhone 4 rendered a piece of treacly junk after updating to iOS 9 that the best iOS is the one your phone comes with. Happy with the speed and battery usage I have on my 6 to ever fall for the upgrades again.
Ditto to that. My original iPad Air is still running iOS 7.1 and have NO desire of ruining the experience by upgrading to any higher OS. It does the job just fine with the OS it came with.
 
I updated my iPad mini and it works fine. My iPhone has a lot of data that I like to backup before I update. I would hope that it gets transferred, but I don't take any chances. Things like all of the Safari tabs I have open, pictures that may or may not be backed up, notes, and other apps. Luckily with the iCloud data, I worry a lot less about contacts, some notes, my calendar, and other data in the cloud.
 
The installed base of the A5 devices last year was bigger than the A6 devices this year.
Are there numbers showing all of that somewhere? Curious to see the actual breakdown of it all, given that these adoption numbers don't really show that.
 
Are there numbers showing all of that somewhere? Curious to see the actual breakdown of it all, given that these adoption numbers don't really show that.

Using Fiksu's iOS trackers:

iOS 10 dropped - 36.9 parent of the installed iPad base (iPad 2,3,Mini 1)

iOS 11 dropped -10.5 recent of the installed iPad base (iPad 4)

iOS 10 dropped - 4.1 percent of the installed iPhone base (iPhone 4s)

iOS 11 dropped - 4.2 percent of the installed iPhone base (iPhone 5, 5C)

The adoption numbers do show that. The iPhone 5 was on sale for one year vs the 3 or so years the 4S was on sale for. The 5C was never a flagship and sales were much lower than the 5C. The iPad 2 was on sale for a LONG time and plenty of sources will show how large the adoption was. iPad 3 sales were strong and iPad Mini 1 sales were also strong combined with the fact they were selling well into 2015.
 
Obvious Android fanboy alert...snore...your idea of "powerful hardware specs" is misguided. Just because a phone has 32 cores and however much memory doesn't mean the OS is going to use it effectively.

Optimised for the OS they came with and only just? Disagree. I've never found an iDevice be slow with the next major version.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. My Galaxy devices have not slowed like my iDevices have with subsequent OS upgrades.

And they already came with features that iPhone doesn't have, so the need to upgrade OS is NOTHING like the need to upgrade iPhones to gain BS features like emoji manipulation, etc. My Note 5 runs circles around the current iPhones...not for speed, but capability. Having a fast phone that can't do sh*** is worthless. I'm through with Apple telling me what I can or cannot do with my device.

Yes, I'm an Android fan. But I became one AFTER using iOS for years and seeing that I could do more on Android than iOS, and NOTHING's changed.

Going back to the crippled, proprietary iOS hardware and limited software is now impossible for me.

I have tasted the Android Kool-aid and it is SWEET.
 
For some that kind of thing happens pretty much with any major new version.

True. This seems to always be the case for the older devices, every time. Maybe now more than ever, people are less willing to upgrade devices as well ? Maybe having the 'latest and greatest smartphone' logic is stagnating in general.
 
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. My Galaxy devices have not slowed like my iDevices have with subsequent OS upgrades.

Weren't you talking about a Note 3? Cause that got OS updates for a whopping 15 months. Honestly not the best example.

My Note 5 runs circles around the current iPhones

I thought you have a Note 3.

Do you have, like, all the Notes?
 
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. My Galaxy devices have not slowed like my iDevices have with subsequent OS upgrades.

And they already came with features that iPhone doesn't have, so the need to upgrade OS is NOTHING like the need to upgrade iPhones to gain BS features like emoji manipulation, etc. My Note 5 runs circles around the current iPhones...not for speed, but capability. Having a fast phone that can't do sh*** is worthless. I'm through with Apple telling me what I can or cannot do with my device.

Yes, I'm an Android fan. But I became one AFTER using iOS for years and seeing that I could do more on Android than iOS, and NOTHING's changed.

Going back to the crippled, proprietary iOS hardware and limited software is now impossible for me.

I have tasted the Android Kool-aid and it is SWEET.
Why do Android users look at iOS as just a crippled software? The closed nature of iOS is not a disadvantage, rather it’s the reason many of us stick with the iPhone and not Android powered devices. On the whole, iOS is stable, extremely polished, secure, and has the best App Store.

Furthermore, I have had Android devices. Used them for years, and I hardly ever got major OS updates. What’s worse, I would see other Android users using different hardware running the latest software and I was beholden to my hardware manufacturer and or network provider waiting for an update. There’s no getting around the fact that Android can never offer the solidness of iOS because everything iOS runs on is Apple hardware (unless we’re talking about the Pixel line), whereas there are so many different Android devices to write software for.

To each their own. I can recognize the strengths in the hardware and software of Android, but Android users just don’t seem to ‘get’ why iOS users prefer iOS. iOS is absolutely NOT some sort of handicapped software.
 
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Software isn't magic or voodoo, despite what some people seem to think.

This idea that new software runs better on newer devices than older ones isn't remotely new, I really struggle to understand how people think it's surprising every year.

No reason for new software to run poorly on older devices. Its not as if the software I put out runs slower with each new release. That's what performance tests are for.

In Apples case its about planned obsolescence - why pay to make software more efficient when you can get customers to but new kit
 
Why do Android users look at iOS as just a crippled software? The closed nature of iOS is not a disadvantage, rather it’s the reason many of us stick with the iPhone and not Android powered devices. On the whole, iOS is stable, extremely polished, secure, and has the best App Store.

Furthermore, I have had Android devices. Used them for years, and I hardly ever got major OS updates. What’s worse, I would see other Android users using different hardware running the latest software and I was beholden to my hardware manufacturer and or network provider waiting for an update. There’s no getting around the fact that Android can never offer the solidness of iOS because everything iOS runs on is Apple hardware, whereas there are so many different Android devices to write software for.

To each their own. I can recognize the strengths in the hardware and software of Android, but Android users just don’t seem to ‘get’ why iOS users prefer iOS. iOS is absolutely NOT some sort of handicapped software.

From the perspective of someone who values the features baked into Android (hardware and software), iOS is most certainly crippled.

This is because there is so much you cannot do on an iOS device that you can on Android (I use Galaxy devices exclusively, so YMMV).

Apple has slowly been introducing features through OS updates, but on the Android devices I've had OS updates were somewhat moot; there was nothing the OS update would bring that I needed/wanted, because the core of Android devices already had the gotta-have-it features.

Android OS updates mostly refine what's already there, while introducing some new features.

To be more specific, these are the features I've had on my Galaxy devices for years (I switched to a new Galaxy S4!) that Apple STILL doesn't provide:

1. RAM: Older Android handsets do not suffer like iOS ones.
2. Filesystem access: Apple is bringing this (kinda) onto iOS only now, and it's nowhere near the same
3. Back button: Using iOS is like having a Mac with a one-button mouse. Oh wait...
4. Customization of OS look and feel: Themes give me a new "OS" at will and allow me to truly personalize my device
6. MicroSD storage: You can never have too much space, and the flexibility to swap it out quickly
7. Headphone jack: Bluetooth is convenient, but not as convenient or stable as wired connections. Android has the OPTION
8. Built-in stylus: When you need/want pin-point precision, you cannot beat it. Not indispensable, but nice to have
9. Real widgets: I prefer the Android way
10. App tray: I can make the endless row of icons go away until I need them
11. Wireless charging: Finally Apple brings this to iPhone now
*EDIT--forgot one:
12. Split-screen multitasking: This is one of the biggest reasons I'll stay Android.

I'm curious as to what feature you were jealous of on your older-OS Android device that was brought about by a new OS.

I have a Note3 and a Note5 in my family now that I really never needed to OS update, because they did all of the above.

Given Apple will never offer what's on my list I'll be out of the iPhone loop forever.
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Weren't you talking about a Note 3? Cause that got OS updates for a whopping 15 months. Honestly not the best example. I thought you have a Note 3. Do you have, like, all the Notes?

I have a family of 5. So right now we have a Note3, Note5, 2 S7Edges, and my new Note8 (which replaced my Note5) in my household. Everyone switched from iPhone and REFUSE to go back when I gave them a choice, because they'd miss out on features, regardless of Mac/iOS integration (I have an all-Mac household).

With Galaxy devices you don't need to do an OS update to gain features (I value), they were already there. OS updates mainly refine the existing features (they do add a few sometimes). Hardware updates add (and sadly remove, then sometimes reintroduce) hardware features. Look up the history of Note devices to see the differences in both hardware and software (capability, not OS).
 
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From the perspective of someone who values the features baked into Android (hardware and software), iOS is most certainly crippled.

This is because there is so much you cannot do on an iOS device that you can on Android (I use Galaxy devices exclusively, so YMMV).

Apple has slowly been introducing features through OS updates, but on the Android devices I've had OS updates were somewhat moot; there was nothing the OS update would bring that I needed/wanted, because the core of Android devices already had the gotta-have-it features.

Android OS updates mostly refine what's already there, while introducing some new features.

To be more specific, these are the features I've had on my Galaxy devices for years (I switched to a new Galaxy S4!) that Apple STILL doesn't provide:

1. RAM: Older Android handsets do not suffer like iOS ones.
2. Filesystem access: Apple is bringing this (kinda) onto iOS only now, and it's nowhere near the same
3. Back button: Using iOS is like having a Mac with a one-button mouse. Oh wait...
4. Customization of OS look and feel: Themes give me a new "OS" at will and allow me to truly personalize my device
6. MicroSD storage: You can never have too much space, and the flexibility to swap it out quickly
7. Headphone jack: Bluetooth is convenient, but not as convenient or stable as wired connections. Android has the OPTION
8. Built-in stylus: When you need/want pin-point precision, you cannot beat it. Not indispensable, but nice to have
9. Real widgets: I prefer the Android way
10. App tray: I can make the endless row of icons go away until I need them

I'm curious as to what feature you were jealous of on your older-OS Android device that was brought about by a new OS.

I have a Note3 and a Note5 in my family now that I really never needed to OS update, because they did all of the above.

Given Apple will never offer what's on my list I'll be out of the iPhone loop forever.
I’ll answer going down your list:
1. RAM isn’t really a problem on iPhones or iOS devices BECASUE of the software, And I would be more than confident that a 3 year old iPhone is much smoother and quicker than a 3 year old Android device.
2. File system on the iPad and iPhones offers plenty of functionality now. I’m not familiar enough with Androids current file system to compare.
3. There is a software back button or you can always swipe to the right. Both work plenty well to replace a physical button. Besides, aren’t most current Android flagships moving away from buttons?
4. I played the customization game for years and got tired of always ‘tweaking’ my phone. Give me something nice to look at that works consistently. This is a non starter for me and likely most iOS users.
5. MicroSD storage is nice, however, it’s not nearly as fast as the NAND storage built into the device. And you can get up to 256gb built in and cloud services as well.
6. Headphone jack does suck, but Android has more devices coming online without as well.
7. Not built in, but Apple Pencil with my iPad Pro is awesome. The stylus only works on the note correct?
8. Real widgets I’ll guve you. I wouldn’t be surprised to see those added.
9. This should be more adapted to the Android set up. I will also give you that one. The concept of the watchOS layout I’ve seen on Youtube looks great and would be a welcome change to the 10 year old left to right square grid lay out in iOS.

When I had my androids, it wasn’t so much the abscence of a ton of new features in the OS updates, but there were features that I couldn’t get because Android is so fragmented. To me, the only Android device worth owning is the Google Pixel. Pure Android and the latest updates every year. But even then, you’re only guaranteed 2 years worth of updates??

Lastly, I respect your opinion and your preference for Android. I am curious as to why you’re on this forum when you yourself stated you’ll never use an iPhone again?
 
I’ll answer going down your list:
1. RAM isn’t really a problem on iPhones or iOS devices BECASUE of the software, And I would be more than confident that a 3 year old iPhone is much smoother and quicker than a 3 year old Android device.
2. File system on the iPad and iPhones offers plenty of functionality now. I’m not familiar enough with Androids current file system to compare.
3. There is a software back button or you can always swipe to the right. Both work plenty well to replace a physical button. Besides, aren’t most current Android flagships moving away from buttons?
4. I played the customization game for years and got tired of always ‘tweaking’ my phone. Give me something nice to look at that works consistently. This is a non starter for me and likely most iOS users.
5. MicroSD storage is nice, however, it’s not nearly as fast as the NAND storage built into the device. And you can get up to 256gb built in and cloud services as well.
6. Headphone jack does suck, but Android has more devices coming online without as well.
7. Not built in, but Apple Pencil with my iPad Pro is awesome. The stylus only works on the note correct?
8. Real widgets I’ll guve you. I wouldn’t be surprised to see those added.
9. This should be more adapted to the Android set up. I will also give you that one. The concept of the watchOS layout I’ve seen on Youtube looks great and would be a welcome change to the 10 year old left to right square grid lay out in iOS.

When I had my androids, it wasn’t so much the abscence of a ton of new features in the OS updates, but there were features that I couldn’t get because Android is so fragmented. To me, the only Android device worth owning is the Google Pixel. Pure Android and the latest updates every year. But even then, you’re only guaranteed 2 years worth of updates??

Lastly, I respect your opinion and your preference for Android. I am curious as to why you’re on this forum when you yourself stated you’ll never use an iPhone again?

I'll do the same:

1. RAM is definitely a problem on all non-current iOS devices. Plenty of people commenting on this on these forums. I'll take the Pepsi challenge on speed and ability of 3-year old devices. More to the point, the Note3 is a 4-year-old phone and it'll beat the pants off a 5.
2. I don't know about the iOS files app, but the Android filesystem works like any other. I doubt the iOS version does too.
3. Android keeps the button, even if virtual. From what I understand, swiping to the right doesn't work on every app, or between apps, but I could be wrong there. On Android, I go back in say, web page history, and then to the previous app.
4. Can't argue against preferences. But when Apple changed the look of iOS (iOS 7), I learned to welcome the option to swith to what I want. I don't customize often, but it's nice when I can.
5. With removable storage I can swap between devices with ease, as well as increase/decrease storage per needs and budget. With Apple you make that decision at purchase, for a LOT more money, and you may not need it.
6. I'll only buy devices with a HP jack, until no one offers it.
7. No argument there, the iPad Pro/Pencil combo is unmatched. But that's a digression. Having it built into the smartphone device, at comparatively no cost, adds value to said device. I don't know if the stylus works on anything else, but it also has more features than the one-trick Pencil.
8. Hopefully Apple will add
9. Agreed

To me, the only Android devices to own are the Galaxy series, esp the Notes. Pure Android is nice, but Sammy has the better overal package and value.

Again, the issue of updates is a non-issue on Galaxy devices. I got plenty, but none gave me anything really new or indispensable. They are more like PCs in that regard.

What Android feature were you looking forward to that you missed out on because of an update?

As to why I'm on these forums, it's because I still use iOS and Macs (this is MacRumors after all), and someone needs to stop the FUD and offer real alternatives to those who, like me, become tired of losing features and are looking for said alternatives. Someone has to keep these from turning into cheerleading echo chambers and speak the truth...:p

I gave switching a chance because of these forums.

Also, because in the end I wish Apple does what the competition already did. I'd love all my Note features on an Apple device (so I get my Mac integration cake too). Alas....
 
Hot take: 38.5% of devices now having tanked battery life and irritating framerate drops.
 
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. My Galaxy devices have not slowed like my iDevices have with subsequent OS upgrades.

And they already came with features that iPhone doesn't have, so the need to upgrade OS is NOTHING like the need to upgrade iPhones to gain BS features like emoji manipulation, etc. My Note 5 runs circles around the current iPhones...not for speed, but capability. Having a fast phone that can't do sh*** is worthless. I'm through with Apple telling me what I can or cannot do with my device.

Yes, I'm an Android fan. But I became one AFTER using iOS for years and seeing that I could do more on Android than iOS, and NOTHING's changed.

Going back to the crippled, proprietary iOS hardware and limited software is now impossible for me.

I have tasted the Android Kool-aid and it is SWEET.

LOL. Obvious fanboy was obvious.
 
I am staying on iOS 10.3.3 on my 6s+, Air 2 and IPP 10.5 due to 32-bit apps, but also because I need to disable Bluetooth and wifi easily (via CC) when I get to work.

Really lousy of Apple to change the way CC and the radios work--shady and anti-security.
 
iOS 11 destroyed my iPhone 6, which worked just fine before the update. Looks like Apple has decided for me that it's time to upgrade my iPhone next month when my contract is up. Love the new Control Center, but not worth the performance drop.

I would suggest a 100% clean install. This has solved problems for me in the past.
 
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