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So essentially the security threat wouldn't be the App itself, but where you go to get it...

Maybe this is what they mean when talking about side loading 😂

An App with a side dish... served nasty :eek:
You mean, like the developer websites Apple links to in the regular app store?
 
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Well Apple let Facebook place an app masquerading as a VPN that spied on other apps.

And it's not clear if the DMA would allow Apple to refuse such an app being installed.

Apple can't stop apps if they only threatens the user's privacy and security.
 
But Apple can't disapprove apps unless they threaten the hardware or the operating system.

Threats to the user's security and data isn't a reason which is allowed in the DMA.
And that right there...is further proof that the EU has no idea what they're doing and that this is about power and the EU's incessant need to meddle where they don't belong. They dictate what they want with no consideration for potential consequences. If they actually cared about their citizenry instead of just swinging their overreaching power around, they would have ensured that their edicts also included provisions to protect their citizens from potential risks (although that would involve actually knowing what they're doing and putting in some effort instead of just saying "bend to us or else"). Instead, the EU did what governments do best...**** things up.
 
You can say that about the Mac too. But you know the reputable places to download apps and do research before downloading them.

But this require knowledge and forethought by the user. The nice thing about iOS is you could be an idiot when it came to security and it would still be pretty safe.

And the evidence is out there for the last 25 years: Systems which allows end-users to install from any source, like Windows and macOS, has a much bigger problem with different types of malware.

Even if Apple has locked down macOS a lot in the last 10 years.
 
Congratulations EU people for having more flexibility to choose apps you want and optionally get them directly from those who make them. More freedom to run software on devices you own is a desirable option we should all envy.

The rest of us outside the EU have this same ability with our Macs- and always have- and it has not resulted in our destruction... but some of us have been snowed into believing the bulk of the EU will soon be destroyed by iDevice owners gaining an ability to download and use apps from anywhere other than the Apple App Store.

If I'm not mistaken, we're about a month into this multi-country (but not global) "experiment." Presumably, some number of EU people have already taken advantage of getting some apps from sources other than Apple App Store, making payments through means other than Apple, etc. How many tales of woe have hit about the evil crime syndicates wiping out EU iDevice users because they did this? How many tales of rampant iDevice viruses unleashed because of this so far? More simply: where's the destruction so many promised... and are still promising?

Security spin is a very easy card to play. People can be easily fooled into believing anything when the implication is that personal security risk is increased. But the catch in playing that card but then being "forced" to comply is that all get to see the terribly destructive or non-event outcome. The law is in play. Apple has already complied and is taking that further as the EU pressed for compliance with intent of the law vs. only letter of it.

My guess is that a month from now there will still be this international chorus of disdain against these EU market freedoms... but still no sweeping tales of woe & destruction we sling about how terrible this will prove to be for EU people.

My guess is that a YEAR from now, it will still be the same... much as some of us also passionatelly slung the "lint magnet", "broken tongues", "endless repairs" of iPhone going USB-C, which has since resulted in how much actual devastation as spun? I still find lint in my pockets. I haven't even spotted one "broken tongue" USB-C repair kiosk pop up anywhere. I haven't seen one story highlighting how countless latest iPhones are being sent in for USB-C port repairs because of its great inferiority as a port. I assumed there would a mountains of broken tongues by now, tripping all of us as we try to walk, ride or drive anywhere. What happened?

We can only play this negative spin game so long. If we keep crying Wolf when there is no wolf, the villagers will eventually wise up and stop coming. Very much as we should have leaned with the USB-C port nonsense, the clock is ticking for the EU armageddon we sling to either manifest... or for us to learn once again that it was much ado about nothing.

Everyone with a Mac who has ever purchased/downloaded a Mac app directly from developers, in bundle packs, etc (sources other than the Apple Mac App Store) should know how this will play out for EU people. But even if you can find some way to see it as dramatically different, stand by and just watch the doomsday spun by many play out... or not. This train has a already left the station. Either the EU will prove such confident passion about security-driven destruction correct... or maybe those who so easily run with whatever they think Apple wants will learn a lesson... again.

All that shared: everyone be careful out there. Tripping over a pile of iPhone USB-C tongues could be hazardous. Just ask those who so confidently assured us all of that total disaster for many months ahead of that round of Apple compliance with EU law. ;)
 
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Well then it's up to you. If you decide to install small one man show project, that's on you.

But in case of bigger open source projects its much safer than closed source proprietary binary from Meta on the Apple's App Store.

But how do you know the binary a user download from a website was compiled from the source code it claims?
How would regular users know?
 
We wanna be in the wild Wild West.... Yehaaaaa

Nothing wrong being a cowboy. or cowgirl

🤠🤠🤠🤠
🐴🐴🐎🐎🐎
 
That’s not decided yet, they are currently investigating the possibility.
I’m really interested where this ends up.

The notarization is something which may be easily thrown away by the EU, because it may go against the whole DMA idea, the core fee for free apps may be something to discuss and iPadOS inclusion too.
 
But this require knowledge and forethought by the user. The nice thing about iOS is you could be an idiot when it came to security and it would still be pretty safe.

And the evidence is out there for the last 25 years: Systems which allows end-users to install from any source, like Windows and macOS, has a much bigger problem with different types of malware.

Even if Apple has locked down macOS a lot in the last 10 years.
So why couldn't Apple do something similar with what they do on the Mac, where they allow identified developers and give you a warning if you try to install from an unidentified developer?
 
Maybe you missed that the apps are still subject to review and notarization by Apple. Developers still can’t offer apps for download without Apple signing off on each single app and each single update.

Yes, but Apple can disapprove based on content or even if it's a security threat to the user.

The way I read the DMA, Apple can only refuse an app if it threatens the hardware or the operating system itself.
 
So why couldn't Apple do something similar with what they do on the Mac, where they allow identified developers and give you a warning if you try to install from an unidentified developer?
Don't kid yourself. The EU would probably find a way to whine about that, too. The way they're going, they'd draw something up to forbid that warning and fine them for it.
 
You can still have a closed system. That aspect isn't changing. Allowing alternative app stores and downloads from websites doesn't affect anything or anyone unless they choose to go those routes.

I would say that's not true.

You're part of an ecosystem and you might be affected what other people in the same ecosystem do.

Don't you think that if you're a Windows user, you can be affected by what billions of other Windows user to with their machines and the software running on those machines?
 
While no big fan of alt stores or downloading iOS/ipad apps from websites, why only do this in the EU? Just make it a worldwide standard (which I believe will happen eventually). So that Apple can stave off lawsuits or additional laws being passed here in the U.S. or other countries.
 
But how do you know the binary a user download from a website was compiled from the source code it claims?
How would regular users know?
I don’t know how Apple notarization would work. Should Apple approve every app release, then you can be pretty safe, because the binary would be signed and unsigned and unknown binaries would not be allowed.

If Apple signing will not be required (which I sincerely doubt) then it’s up to you who you trust. Just like games on Steam and other apps on Mac.

Also apps are running in the sandbox, so it’s not like one app can take over your whole iPhone.
 
The notarization is something which may be easily thrown away by the EU, because it may go against the whole DMA idea
Checks for malware and restricted API calls are justified, but Apple could do that on-device or from the device in the cloud, upon installation, and only optionally ahead of time (and then notarized) if the developer chooses to for quicker installation. I don’t see what they can manually check in review that wouldn’t be subject to arbitrary decisions, like the current app review process already is.
 
Last time I checked macOS is open and is part of Apple.

Apple has been locking down macOS for 10+ years now taking cues from iOS:

  • Mac App Store
  • Sandboxing applications more and more
  • SIP
  • Not allowing applications to be installed from an unknown developer by default and hiding the choice to do so
  • Permission system for accessing photos and other stuff similar to iOS
  • Removing slowly support for third party kernel extensions (device drivers)
 
Would you like to also live in a zoo?
A nice safe controlled life, with food and entertainment that's approved by the zoo keeper.
No need to go outside into the real world as that's dangerous.
It's safer to stay in the zoo ;)

I look at more as living in a gated community with membership in a discriminating country club.

It keeps most of the riff raff out and if you want to have some more excitement, you can always go on a Safari.
 
Is no one reading a full paragraph anymore? the apps still need to be verified by Apple. If you do not trust Apples verification process in the first place, then why are you even worried?

Apple is very limited in the criteria used for denying an approval.

My reading of the DMA doesn't allow Apple to deny apps which threatens user's security or their data.
 
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