iOS 17.5 Lets EU iPhone Users Download Apps From Websites

[AppliedMicro]

The other countries of Europe: Kosovo, the UK, Norway, Switzerland, Ukraine, Moldova, Albania, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Andorra, San Marino, Iceland, Türkiye, Belarus, Liechtenstein, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Russia and the Vatican are not currently EU members.

The EEA member states of Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland are in the process of adopting the regulation, too.

I look at more as living in a gated community with membership in a discriminating country club.
It keeps most of the riff raff out

Contrary to country clubs or residential dwellings or neighbourhoods, there aren't many such clubs for consumers or developers to choose from.

And Apple aren't very discriminating in their membership - with a few exceptions, they approve everyone. Particularly if willing to pay (e.g. any ****** gaming app that capitalises on gaming addiction)

 

[3530025]

Apple has been locking down macOS for 10+ years now taking cues from iOS:

• Mac App Store
• Sandboxing applications more and more
• SIP
• Not allowing applications to be installed from an unknown developer by default and hiding the choice to do so
• Permission system for accessing photos and other stuff similar to iOS
• Removing slowly support for third party kernel extensions (device drivers)

That‘s completely true. But all these can be disabled or bypassed by user when needed, so you can still use macOS freely as you desire.

Also Mac App Store lacks fundamental apps - for better or worse most of my apps are downloaded from the appropriate websites. And I’ve no problem with this. Better than not having them at all because these apps would not pass Apple Mac App Store rules or having to pay for them, because of some strange Apple fee. MacOS is great as it is.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I got a new device yesterday. Essentially, a tablet that runs Android 12. Overall, it's fun. It's pretty cool that I can go to the Play Store and download apps to it from a different device and stuff like that.

By that night, however, I had this haunting feeling that this Chinese-made device and all the pre-installed apps may just have a security risk. Moments later, I downloaded Bitdefender and ran it. It says it's all good? But I still can't shake this uneasy feeling about it. Especially when I've already installed Bitwarden and whatnot on it.

Being a mostly Apple user, I've never had to really worry about it. I assume Google has the system locked down well enough that maybe there isn't as much risk? But again, I really just don't know. It's not that I've side-loaded, it's just how can I trust the device manufacturer and the shovelware?

Well, at one point, you could root, and install a base Android image that was free of all that. I am sure they have locked bootloaders now. Actually, this is why I wouldn't have anything but Pixel devices if I was to go Pixel.

 

[waltman]

Since when has a European nation tried to control an American company 🤔🤔🤔

 

[3530025]

I‘m torn on the core tech fee. Apple provides you full access to all developer tools, docs and even support for a very low entry point of $99 / year (no real seat pricing, you buy this once for your company).

This whole model is funded by the ecosystem getting 15/30% via IAP.

You now have the EU, Spotify, Epic and a plethora of other big corps saying „you can‘t force them to use your App Store and your IAP System, let them do it free of charge“.
It‘s only fair to Apple to get compensated for the very good DX it provides? Should they now go to per seat DX licensing (like Microsoft, charging thousands / year for VS access)? Apple decided on the 50c CTF model, lets see if that flies or whether they bite and come up with something else.

Nevertheless, arguing the „device already covers this!!!“ is a stupid argument, since the whole DX Apple provides is done by teams not actively working on the products (and you could say the same for all the other corps milking their developer platforms, I mean MS surely makes enough from Azure services, why do I have to pay for developing on their platform?).

If I were Apple I‘d just do it like this:
- Scrap the CTF
- People who want to distribute elsewhere can do it for free, under the condition they do not monetize their App in any way (enable truly free to use Apps)
- Apps distributing elsewhere / wanting to use their own IAP need to get on a different developer account licensing scheme that has per seat licensing on par with e.g. Microsoft products

That way Spotify pays a few thousand $ for access to the developer ecosystem Apple provides but they‘re still better off than having to pay the CTF for million of App downloads.

That may be true. In such case - just lock down XCode behind monthly or yearly payment which would pay the development of SDK and XCode. Just what Microsoft does with VS. Definitely better approach, than forcing free apps to pay core fee, which somehow does not make sense, because popular free app may easily make dev go bankrupt - which is, well, absurd.

 

[3530025]

Since when has a European nation tried to control an American company 🤔🤔🤔

EU does not try to control American company at all.

EU just regulates its market. Just as US does. Pretty standard thing to do. If your product does not comply, you can’t sell it on such market. Easy as that. No control is going on here. Apple is totally free to choose whether they want to comply and continue selling on EU market or whether Apple wants to withdraw from EU market.

From the revenue standpoint its pretty clear that compliance is the way to go. Just as Apple did on the Chinese market.

 

[nitrobear]

I‘m torn on the core tech fee. Apple provides you full access to all developer tools, docs and even support for a very low entry point of $99 / year (no real seat pricing, you buy this once for your company).

This whole model is funded by the ecosystem getting 15/30% via IAP.

You now have the EU, Spotify, Epic and a plethora of other big corps saying „you can‘t force them to use your App Store and your IAP System, let them do it free of charge“.
It‘s only fair to Apple to get compensated for the very good DX it provides? Should they now go to per seat DX licensing (like Microsoft, charging thousands / year for VS access)? Apple decided on the 50c CTF model, lets see if that flies or whether they bite and come up with something else.

Nevertheless, arguing the „device already covers this!!!“ is a stupid argument, since the whole DX Apple provides is done by teams not actively working on the products (and you could say the same for all the other corps milking their developer platforms, I mean MS surely makes enough from Azure services, why do I have to pay for developing on their platform?).

If I were Apple I‘d just do it like this:
- Scrap the CTF
- People who want to distribute elsewhere can do it for free, under the condition they do not monetize their App in any way (enable truly free to use Apps)
- Apps distributing elsewhere / wanting to use their own IAP need to get on a different developer account licensing scheme that has per seat licensing on par with e.g. Microsoft products

That way Spotify pays a few thousand $ for access to the developer ecosystem Apple provides but they‘re still better off than having to pay the CTF for million of App downloads.

Why aren't the developer tools, documents and support being funded by the absurdly crazy $200 it costs to upgrade your RAM, CPU or storage in any Apple device? They're consistently pushing the most expensive devices in the market and you really think this isn't enough to fund it?

 

[nitrobear]

I’ll just sit back and laugh at the EU when the next SE comes out priced at €750.

What you folks don’t understand is Apple is gonna get its bag of cash come Hell or high water.

If they can’t make money on the software, they’ll make money on the hardware.

Unless the EU comes up with some regulation mandating iOS on non-Apple hardware.

They're not going to sell any SEs if you can find new iPhone 13s for less than that absolutely everywhere in Europe.

 

[andycarver]

Is this an option on Android without a Jailbreak?

 

[scorpio vega]

Do you prefer Apple’s paternalism instead then? The EU is trying to provide a choice: you can download from Apple’s App Store or from a developer’s website. That seems less paternalistic than Apple’s way. I will always choose to have a choice over being forced into a corporation’s way of doing things (and I’m no fan of the EU).

I prefer iOS to work the way it always had before being made into an android clone

 

[AppliedMicro]

Is this an option on Android without a Jailbreak?

Sure thing:

Apple offer their own Music app for "sideloaded" installation on Android:

Download the Apple Music app if your country, region or device doesn't have Google Play – Apple Support (UK)

Find out how to download Apple Music on Android if you can't access Google Play. You may need to adjust your security settings to finish the installation.

support.apple.com

👉 "If you see 'Install Blocked'", Apple readily explain how to "allow" installation from "Unknown Sources" to install it.

 

[3530025]

Is this an option on Android without a Jailbreak?

Yes, it is. You can install any app from any source.

And yes, it is behind multiple warnings and checkboxes that you need to go through in order to do this. (and that’s fine)

It definitely is not something which casual user does and so it definitely is not crap storm of malware as many users are trying to picture here. It’s very useful though when you want to install some specific app which is not on Google’s Play Store (I’ve installed complete sshd server with rsync and all and so I can control my Pixel phone remotely, which is very useful for some use-cases).

 

[3530025]

Sure thing:

Download the Apple Music app if your country, region or device doesn't have Google Play – Apple Support (UK)

Find out how to download Apple Music on Android if you can't access Google Play. You may need to adjust your security settings to finish the installation.

support.apple.com

👉 Apple even explain how one should "allow" installation from " Unknown Sources".

What an irony! Wow. Apple itself recommends sideloading on the competitors device. You can’t make this up.

 

[TigerNike23]

They're not going to sell any SEs if you can find new iPhone 13s for less than that absolutely everywhere in Europe.

My point is Tim Cook is the bean counter emperor. If he can’t make money through software, he’ll make it some other way.

His options are 1) raise the cost of hardware, 2) raise the cost of services, or 3) raise the cost of both.

Buying a secondhand iPhone is one way around it, like you mention. However, when those secondhand devices are EOL’d and all iPhones are over 700 euros, somethings got to change.

 

[jlnr]

No one is suing GM over the fact that you can no longer choose which phone you can enjoy between Android Auto and Apple Car Play.

Because car entertainment systems are just that, while smartphones are quickly becoming your whole identity (ID, payment, only way to access public services etc.) Of course the regulations are stricter for the latter.

It's not like the EU just invented the concept of regulations last year. Medical equipment and other product categories always had them.

 

[canadianreader]

I got a new device yesterday. Essentially, a tablet that runs Android 12. Overall, it's fun. It's pretty cool that I can go to the Play Store and download apps to it from a different device and stuff like that.

By that night, however, I had this haunting feeling that this Chinese-made device and all the pre-installed apps may just have a security risk. Moments later, I downloaded Bitdefender and ran it. It says it's all good? But I still can't shake this uneasy feeling about it. Especially when I've already installed Bitwarden and whatnot on it.

Being a mostly Apple user, I've never had to really worry about it. I assume Google has the system locked down well enough that maybe there isn't as much risk? But again, I really just don't know. It's not that I've side-loaded, it's just how can I trust the device manufacturer and the shovelware?

You can remove pre-installed apps including system apps through ADB

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

My point is Tim Cook is the bean counter emperor. If he can’t make money through software, he’ll make it some other way.

His options are 1) raise the cost of hardware, 2) raise the cost of services, or 3) raise the cost of both.

Buying a secondhand iPhone is one way around it, like you mention. However, when those secondhand devices are EOL’d and all iPhones are over 700 euros, somethings got to change.

The average EU consumer doesn't have unlimited spending power. Thus simply raising prices on hardware perpetually to make up for losses can only work to some extent.

If the value of the product is too low relative to the price, or simply outside the buyers means, then no sale will occur. It's literally impossible if the price is too high.

I do believe, however, that you're right that Apple will find other ways to make up for the losses, like maybe making certain very attractive iOS AI features a part of some tiered subscription plan.

But I'd expect Apple to move to more subscription plans for a lot of its software even if Apple was never faced with these EU regulations.

Impressing consumers with new hardware ain't as easy as it used to be, you know. Too many of us own a smartphone, newer or older, that performs just as well as the latest and greatest does.

 

[Wando64]

I´m tired of the paternalism of the European Union, as if the user is stupid.

Signed: Citizen of the European Union

I mean, the exact opposite is true.
If there is someone behaving as if the user is stupid, that would be Apple.

 

[Wando64]

Vote accordingly and force your country out of stupid eu

You’ll never learn… 🙄

 

[Neebee]

How is Apple going enforce this? I have an iTunes App Store account located in the EU. Can I just log into that or will Apple use your actual location? If your location services are disabled it won't allow access or if you use a VPN without location services enabled?

 

[Graphikos]

You can remove pre-installed apps including system apps through ADB

Fair enough, but most of them are required for the device to work. They are a bit specialized like that.

 

[Graphikos]

Well, at one point, you could root, and install a base Android image that was free of all that. I am sure they have locked bootloaders now. Actually, this is why I wouldn't have anything but Pixel devices if I was to go Pixel.

Except the pre-installed stuff is, I'm assuming, custom to make the device work for features that are not core in Android. For example, it has a USB-C video input that launches some unknown app to show the video. Starting from scratch would likely cripple it. To be fair it is from a fairly known manufacturer so its.. "probably fine"... just makes me wonder though.

But that's a bit of the point. It's a lot easier to trust when a company builds both the device and the software. It's true with Apple, it's true with Google/Pixel. Maybe smart people at Google have a way to make sure that the OS can't be compromised when it's installed on 3rd party hardware, but again... who knows?!

 

[Neebee]

I´m tired of the paternalism of the European Union, as if the user is stupid.

Signed: Citizen of the European Union

Seems like someone may be afflicted with the Stockholm Syndrome.

And yeah, the way North America and Asian countries view the citizens of the EU these days and corroborated by recent studies, the consensus is citizens in the EU are viewed as stupid especially with their beliefs in conspiracy theories and pseudo-science. Even worse than in the USA!!

 

[Geoffb9]

Or game emulators, torrent clients or other apps that Apple doesn't think we should use. Thank you to the EU for the free choice, and thank you for letting us think for ourselves and use our common sense.

If that’s what you wanted, why didn’t you buy an Android or your Nokia (remember that failed company!)?
You only want US companies’ technology and taxes. The EU is becoming like parasites on the US.

 

[Geoffb9]

You do realise there would be no app store without 3rd party developers.
It would be like Apple owning a giant library with no books written by anyone other than a few by Apple.

Apple owe's the success of the app store 100% to the hard working devs who created all those apps we love.

I could buy and run an art gallery, but without talented artists my Gallery would be an utter failure.

Not a zoo. Think of it as a choosing to live in a secure compound. You prefer to live in a ghetto.