I7guy
macrumors Westmere
Actually all those products are great.Tim Cook invented this:
iOS Adoption Remains at Lowest Levels Since 2014 as Android Captures Record 87.5% Market Share
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rjohnstone
macrumors 68040
Who ever thought it was a good idea to put the charging port on the BOTTOM of the MM2 needs to be slapped.... hard.
And that battery case is just plain fugly.
Carlanga
macrumors 604
no, I asked how did you determined his social class?
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
the function is high for battery case even if some don't like the form. The pencil charge for 15 seconds is genius.
StrongArmmed
macrumors regular
The iPhone is definitely positioned as the "luxury" alternative, in terms of design, and utility. It's positioned to be the device that people aspire to own. And carriers make that a reality by providing monthly payment plans.
But make no mistake... iPhone, iPad, Mac, the retail experience...all are positioned to make you want to own one at least partly because of the status it implies.
trifid
macrumors 68020
Out of curiosity do you think any Apple product looks ugly or is bad design?
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
can you elaborate on why this is germane to the conversation?
Born Again
Suspended
are we talking steak dinner to a burger?
an ipa to a generic beer?
or like a benz c class with an AMG package to a stock c-class?
you can't say ferrari and iphone in the same sentence ever is my point. retail $ is so far skewed. an iphone is $649 - a cheap android is $200 new? That's more like a S-class to a loaded honda accord. if that. So no ferrari.
trifid
macrumors 68020
Some people are more biased than others, but by the way you reacted to that photo I posted, it seems you might be disproportionately biased towards loving any and every single product Apple makes, without any objectiveness in admitting when Apple is at fault. After all, no company is perfect, right? I was just curious how you evaluate Apple's other products, as that might help how we keep debating, and interacting about these discussions.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
Bias does run all ways, correct? Something as subjective as liking a product or design can't be a wrong opinion or can't be biased if you agree with the herd, but disagree with the herd and there is a disproportionate amount of bias, which is subjective anyway based on these discussions, especially if the subtext is to pin a label on someone in an anonymous Internet forum . Is the essence of this summarized correctly?
trifid
macrumors 68020
Bias can run all ways, that's why I purposely said "disproportionate bias", what do I mean? If you think everything Apple does is justifiable and perfect and you never admit anything wrong that Apple does, then I think that's unrealistic and disproportionate and that'll make me approach a discussion differently.
That's why I was curious about what you though Apple did wrong, or ugly or bad design, to see if there is anything at all that you find questionable.
For the record, I'm a heavy critic of Apple, but do admit several things they do right, and I still consider Apple's ecosystem superior to the alternatives. I think a balanced approach is the right approach, that's my personal take on the matter.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
It seems that by conveying one is a "heavy critic and admitting they do things right", is trying to create an impression of impartiality free from bias, which is not the case. An opinion always carries bias with it and saying there is "disproportionate bias" because one may have a different opinion is fallacious; even "disproportionate bias" is a subjective opinion.
What one thinks apple does right or wrong or good or bad is completely subjective and open to interpretation. And just to note, you are the one who seems to conclude or state or intimate that I said apple is perfect, when all I really said was I like those designs. So there is a "bit" of hyperbole in that first paragraph.
trifid
macrumors 68020
All I did was ask a simple question which you keep evading. Thanks for answering it by your omision.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
I already answered the question, which was a loaded or baited question to begin with.
iOS Adoption Remains at Lowest Levels Since 2014 as Android Captures Record 87.5% Market Share
trifid
macrumors 68020
The question was "of curiosity do you think any Apple product looks ugly or is bad design?"
You haven't answered it. I'm genuinely curious.
Radon87000
macrumors 604
Did he use existing materials and combine them into a whole new product line which are more than just the sum of their parts?Yes.Thats called inventing.Every invention including televisions used existing materials.So by your logic nobody invented anything in history
And since you obviously havent read much on Jobs,I recommend you give this article a read.His 14 biggest inventions
http://www.bet.com/news/fashion-and...inventions.html#!10611-fashion-beauty-apple-1
Increasing size is not innovation.Tons of Android manufacturers were well ahead of Apple on that one.Now having the best display on the planet at one point(Retina Display 2010),having the best build quality in business at one point and going above and beyond what competitors do is innovation.
Oh and on a side note the phone which catapulted Apple into the stratosphere and Tim's most innovative phone ever is subject to Touch Disease™
And its not just me who feels this way.Even Apple news websites are mentioning this
https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/04/opinion-apple-recipe-for-success-has-become-boring/
"Tim Cook said that the iPad Pro eliminated the need for a PC. “No, really, why would you buy one?” he said. But then Apple has come out with three new Pro laptops, the simpler of which is remarkably closer to the 12” MacBook than to its more powerful peers. And then the Air has been all but forgotten. Then again, you also have the iPad Pro (two, in fact), with too many overlapping features and price points and not enough uniqueness to make me understand what exactly they want to be. Jobs put the iPad clearly in between the iPhone and the Mac; now everything seems blurry, confused. And this is only one practical example.
"Ironically, Microsoft’s ideas of a ‘tablet that can also be a laptop’ and a ‘laptop that can also be a tablet’ make much more sense, because at least they run the same (great) operating system, and most of all know what they want to be. I’m not saying that they are necessarily better devices — that still largely depends on your preferences and needs — but trying to look at it just from an external perspective, I see the Surface lineup as the clear pinnacle of the current hardware game. Apple may still be a leader, but they sure aren’t the most forward-pushing innovator they were before."
"But as things are right now, I feel like Apple has, at least partially, lost its way. I don’t understand whether the dissonance between its virtually endless (and growing!) customer base and their business decisions has made it so that enthusiasts simply couldn’t be their main target anymore, but recent products — be it because of their price, compromises or just better alternatives from other OEMs — make me question whether even your average Joe is the ideal one."
That is just an extraordinary gain thanks to Samsung.If the market share keeps declining and there are no new potential customers who will they get record breaking profits from?
I believe Google is ahead with their Andromeda project and AI based computing which is the future.Microsoft just like Google has already transitioned into an one OS everywhere with Windows 10 on mobiles,laptops and tablets and even consoles.Apple is not even trying to make iOS and MacOS a unified OS which would really help the iPad Pro sales which isnt even the best selling iPad
lol.This is actually funny.You cant seriously look at that battery case and call it "great"
Steve Jobs inventions
Tim Cook's inventions
You can clearly see the differing philosophies even the products themselves
And we have news like this floating about
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...le-company-happens-make-smartphones-computers
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By far the biggest frustration was how the phone dealt with notifications. With no notification light of any kind or icons for missed calls/texts etc in the toolbar, I kept missing things. The final straw was a couple of time-sensitive texts from my wife that I didn't see for nearly two hours (which was too late). The app switcher means you don't need to go to the homescreen so often.
Lack of a back button. Such a simple button but so, so useful. Made iOS feel slow and clunky.
Using the iPhone as sat nav, when someone calls, the entire nav screen disappears for the duration of the call.
The silent switch is too easy to accidentally switch back.
Scrolling is really slow. Scrolling through a long webpage is a tedious task. In Android it's just a flick.
Lack of (genuine) widgets.
Not being able to set default apps (like Google Maps).
Siri is waaaay behind. Asking a question usually just throws up websites. Asking "hey Google" would usually get you the answer. I kept activating Siri as I took the iPhone out of my pocket so wanted to just turn it off. Easy - I asked Siri to turn off Siri. All I got was a snarky retort "I hope it's not something I said".
But Siri was still switched on.
Frustrating.
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I guess that's the end of that discussion, then.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
I left the only relevant part of your quote above. If by your logic, is the "same grain" of sand is not being used, there is no discussion.
You keep moving your own goalposts, post after post. (And what's with the sentences without any intervening spaces?)
If something new is more than just the sum of their parts, Timmy did that admirably. If the former is not true, then Jobs didn't do it(invent) either and then nobody ever invented anything.
People compare Cook to Ballmer as if it's a negative, and look where he is. (And it's a reflection of how Microsoft did under his leadership)
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I never miss notifications, I don't keep the phone in my face 24x7 and during the day, it's usually in my jacket pocket and either
- I feel the soft vibration
- I get the message on my smart watch.
As far as satnav, when I use it, when a phone call comes in, I can press the home button and go to the satnav program.
IOS doesn't need a back button, because the control is on the screen. Siri excels in controlling the phone. I get in my car and forget to turn on bluetooth? "Hey Siri", turn on bluetooth. I
Anyway each of us has different likes. YMMV.
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I7guy
macrumors Westmere
I'm not giving a detailed answer because that caption seems to be a popular MR meme that doesn't show the entire picture i.e. Has a slant and/or agenda because this type of thing was brought up previously in MR posts. The iPhone 5s/6/6s/7 Apple TV, MacBook was left out. Each of those products though has some interesting innovation that no doubt will be copied in the future as the headphone jack continues to disappear and battery accessories grow in popularity. The 15 sec quick charge for the pencil is especially innovative.
Radon87000
macrumors 604
Solution is Apple Watch.I dont even look at notifications on my iPhone that much
Agreed.Android destroys iOS in this area.If you are used to the back button iOS feels like hell but I got used to it the more I used iOS .Besides in most apps a swipe from the left makes the app go back anyway
Press Home button during call to resume navigation
Why are you using the crappy Safari browser?I use Google Chrome as it has scrolling just like Android.Safari is in my Apple trash apps folder now
Yeah the default apps thing is lame and Google Now wipes the floor with Siri
You are still having difficulty distinguishing products and product lines.Any cash grab CEO can continue a product line.Its very very hard to start one ,something Steve was a master at
Ballmer failed to see the smartphone revolution coming.If he hadnt underestimated iPhone ,Microsoft had the opportunity to dominate both PC and mobile.In fact considering how much iPhone helped Apple,if Microsoft had come out with its Lumia series as that juncture,Windows would no doubt have dominated Android considering its similarity to the iPhone model as far as software goes
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They were not shown as the products you mentioned were invented by Steve and improved by Tim just like how Microsoft Surface isnt Satya's creation
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I7guy
macrumors Westmere
If I'm having difficulty distinguishing product and product lines then you are having difficult in seeing how you move your own goalposts across posts. Apple did not invent the cell phone or computer. It put their own spin on it.
No CEO is perfect not even jobs, ballmer made sure Windows dominated the world; that is his overarching accomplishment in time and Apple will never catch up. There will always be critics and those who think they can do a better job but when investors are happy it means the customers are happy.
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Surface 4 is all satya's. But clearly the guts of the surface has been around since the IBM PC days.
toph2toast
macrumors 6502a
I have honestly never seen a single person use those services.
IG88
macrumors 65816
These comparisons crack me up. What percentage of Android users are ever on the current version of Android?
That 87.5% marketshare is very misleading. The vast majority are low end devices that will never be on the lastest version of Android. It's a separate market than where the iPhone exists.
That 87.5% marketshare is very misleading. The vast majority are low end devices that will never be on the lastest version of Android. It's a separate market than where the iPhone exists.
Radon87000
macrumors 604
Lol.The iPhone is worlds away from being just a cellphone.Are you seriously saying Apple's invention is not much different from Nokia 3310 plus or even Symbian?
Windows is adopted by multiple OEMs and is also available on low end laptops right till high end ultrabooks.It isn't any different from Android.If we compare the profit margins on Macs to Windows OEMs no doubt Apple would come out on top.So by your logic Sundar Pichai is credited with capturing 80% of the smartphone market and Apple will never catch up
Ballmer did a major goofup.Windows was going to be a hot product anyway when he took the reins.It requires a lot of insight to see the next big thing which Jobs was a master at.iPod,iPhone,iPad all smash hits.Name me one CEO who even compares
Wrong.Windows on all platforms was an idea conceptualised by Ballmer which is what led to the development of the Surface during his reign as the flagship proper Windows tablet
Likewise with laptops its rare to see anything other than a Mac open up in coffee shops these days in London UK