iOS/iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon Mac is still bad. Are they really working on it?

[sunny5]

Apple advertised that iOS/iPadOS can be used directly on AS Mac during the WWDC 2020. I was excited at that time but when I got the first M1 Mac mini on November, 2020, I was very disappointed and it never worked like they advertised. The touch system didnt work well, UI and resolution were terrible, and most importantly, most apps aren't available on Mac's App Store. But I had to admit it's just the beginning so I waited several months.

Now, it didnt changed much since then. I think people were able to use iOS/iPadOS apps which didnt support on AS Mac somehow but Apple blocked that method. (I dont know exactly so I gotta find an article) Why not just allow that since developers have to optimize their mobile apps on Mac separately which costs more time and money? The alternative touch mode and controlling mode sucks too and I expected more from it. And yet, it didnt' improve anything.

I do aware that there are a few apps support AS Mac pretty well such as Night Sky and it brew my mind. But most of them aren't.

As of today, Mac's App Store for iOS/iPadOS is full of trash apps and mobile app developers aren't willing to support for AS Mac so far. I really think iOS/iPadOS on Mac is a great idea but are they really willing to support that idea? Well, I dont know. Perhaps we might need more time to wait but as of now, it doesn't look good. Most major apps aren't available and that's a huge problem. Of course, I dont expect Google's mobile apps but at least I expected Instagram on Mac. I paid a 3rd party Instagram app but the developer ran away(...) Since WWDC 2021 developer session released from last week, I would probably gonna wait.

Any thoughts?

 

[thenewperson]

Unfortunately not much is going to change here. Apple gave developers the option to not display their iOS apps as available for use on M1 Macs and most jumped on that chance. Except if Apple reversed course on providing that option nothing will really change.

 

[Krevnik]

I have to agree. This is a classic case of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Apple has been pushing to get more iOS devs to bring apps to the Mac for what seems like an eternity now. Shared frameworks, Catalyst (UIKit on Mac), SwiftUI and now this are all aspects of Apple's attempts to make it as easy as possible to bring an app to both places.

But the devs keep saying no.

 

[ADGrant]

"this" is actually not that different from Catalyst, just without the recompile and Mac App Store distribution.

Unless the developer has an app with good iPad support (keyboard at a minimum but hopefully also trackpad), bringing an app to MacOS with a decent user experience requires some work.

 

[sunny5]

Unfortunately not much is going to change here. Apple gave developers the option to not display their iOS apps as available for use on M1 Macs and most jumped on that chance. Except if Apple reversed course on providing that option nothing will really change.

I have to agree. This is a classic case of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Apple has been pushing to get more iOS devs to bring apps to the Mac for what seems like an eternity now. Shared frameworks, Catalyst (UIKit on Mac), SwiftUI and now this are all aspects of Apple's attempts to make it as easy as possible to bring an app to both places.

But the devs keep saying no.

Then Apple should just allow iOS/iPadOS apps directly on Mac, not doing extra stuffs. It seems developers dont wanna spend more money and time on optimizing and supporting their mobile apps on Mac.

 

[spiderman0616]

Then Apple should just allow iOS/iPadOS apps directly on Mac, not doing extra stuffs. It seems developers dont wanna spend more money and time on optimizing and supporting their mobile apps on Mac.

My advice to all of you is to maybe give it a second. We're in the middle of a major architecture transition that has MOSTLY gone off without a hitch. I'm sure they haven't just halted work on a major initiative they JUST announced not long ago.

I personally only have one iPad app on my M1 that makes any sense at all in that setting, and that's LumaFusion. It just goes to show how different iPadOS and macOS really are.

 

[thenewperson]

Then Apple should just allow iOS/iPadOS apps directly on Mac, not doing extra stuffs

They do on M1 Macs, that still hasn’t stopped devs from opting out. These apps weren’t made to run on Macs, most of them were made solely for iPhones even. So forcing developers - who made apps assuming a smaller, multitouch screen - to deal with users who expect their apps to work well with KB/M input with no changes is silly.

 

[Gnattu]

The TestFlight on macOS brings much more opportunity for adequate support. Let's say we want to port an iOS app to Mac but we are not confident with the compatibility, having the TestFlight for public beta or not is a huge difference.

To bring an iOS app to macOS and make it works like a macOS app instead of an "iOS simulator app" is harder than just add macOS to build target or check the box to make it available on the Mac App Store. A very simple case: there is no low DPI device on modern iOS anymore, but they do exist on macOS, and if the App lacks low DPI support it may not display the right GUI. One of my developer friend was even scared about the feature to run iOS app directly on M1 Mac, he thought that this feature means Apple favors quantity over quality now and the very first thing he did is to opt out that feature for all his apps. He is porting his app to macOS using Mac Catalyst though, and it already took few months but not completed yet due to some iOS method does not work exactly the same on the Mac Catalyst and wait for new WWDC to check if his work would break.

 

[sunny5]

My advice to all of you is to maybe give it a second. We're in the middle of a major architecture transition that has MOSTLY gone off without a hitch. I'm sure they haven't just halted work on a major initiative they JUST announced not long ago.

I personally only have one iPad app on my M1 that makes any sense at all in that setting, and that's LumaFusion. It just goes to show how different iPadOS and macOS really are.

I get that but Capture One Pro 21 had enough time to rebuild their complicated software for macOS so I can't say they had no times to work on it. But of course, they dont wanna do support Mac for other reasons so far.

 

[dmccloud]

Then Apple should just allow iOS/iPadOS apps directly on Mac, not doing extra stuffs. It seems developers dont wanna spend more money and time on optimizing and supporting their mobile apps on Mac.

Some developers will never update their iOS apps to run on the Mac, either because they lack the staffing and resources to do so or because they have stopped developing that app in general. It's the developer's prerogative whether to make the apps available for the Mac, and Apple simply issuing a blanket edict would place an undue burden on smaller developers when they are unable to update the apps to work as well on the Mac as they do on iOS. The two operating systems have a different interface and UI setup, especially since iOS/iPad OS are both touch-first OSes and Mac is still keyboard/mouse focused.

 

[spiderman0616]

Some developers will never update their iOS apps to run on the Mac, either because they lack the staffing and resources to do so or because they have stopped developing that app in general. It's the developer's prerogative whether to make the apps available for the Mac, and Apple simply issuing a blanket edict would place an undue burden on smaller developers when they are unable to update the apps to work as well on the Mac as they do on iOS. The two operating systems have a different interface and UI setup, especially since iOS/iPad OS are both touch-first OSes and Mac is still keyboard/mouse focused.

Exactly—and there are still far too many iPadOS apps that don’t even support new features in iPadOS from 2 years ago yet. I’m starting to think there just isn’t a market of potential iPad power users big enough for developers to take the time.

 

[ADGrant]

Exactly—and there are still far too many iPadOS apps that don’t even support new features in iPadOS from 2 years ago yet. I’m starting to think there just isn’t a market of potential iPad power users big enough for developers to take the time.

That is definitely a problem. iPad apps don't make a lot of money for developers because people aren't willing to pay as much for them as they are for Mac apps. But as small as the market is for iPad apps, the market for iPad apps on MacOS will be even smaller.

 

[ADGrant]

The TestFlight on macOS brings much more opportunity for adequate support. Let's say we want to port an iOS app to Mac but we are not confident with the compatibility, having the TestFlight for public beta or not is a huge difference.

To bring an iOS app to macOS and make it works like a macOS app instead of an "iOS simulator app" is harder than just add macOS to build target or check the box to make it available on the Mac App Store. A very simple case: there is no low DPI device on modern iOS anymore, but they do exist on macOS, and if the App lacks low DPI support it may not display the right GUI. One of my developer friend was even scared about the feature to run iOS app directly on M1 Mac, he thought that this feature means Apple favors quantity over quality now and the very first thing he did is to opt out that feature for all his apps. He is porting his app to macOS using Mac Catalyst though, and it already took few months but not completed yet due to some iOS method does not work exactly the same on the Mac Catalyst and wait for new WWDC to check if his work would break.

Mac Catalyst is the right approach for shipping iPad apps on MacOS. Firstly Catalyst apps support all Macs, not just the Apple Silicon Macs. Also, you can add some native MacOS features.

I am actually surprised it took Apple this long to provide TestFlight support for MacOS. It's annoying to be able to beta test on iPads but not be able to beta test the same app on a Mac.

 

[alien3dx]

Apple advertised that iOS/iPadOS can be used directly on AS Mac during the WWDC 2020. I was excited at that time but when I got the first M1 Mac mini on November, 2020, I was very disappointed and it never worked like they advertised. The touch system didnt work well, UI and resolution were terrible, and most importantly, most apps aren't available on Mac's App Store. But I had to admit it's just the beginning so I waited several months.

Now, it didnt changed much since then. I think people were able to use iOS/iPadOS apps which didnt support on AS Mac somehow but Apple blocked that method. (I dont know exactly so I gotta find an article) Why not just allow that since developers have to optimize their mobile apps on Mac separately which costs more time and money? The alternative touch mode and controlling mode sucks too and I expected more from it. And yet, it didnt' improve anything.

I do aware that there are a few apps support AS Mac pretty well such as Night Sky and it brew my mind. But most of them aren't.

As of today, Mac's App Store for iOS/iPadOS is full of trash apps and mobile app developers aren't willing to support for AS Mac so far. I really think iOS/iPadOS on Mac is a great idea but are they really willing to support that idea? Well, I dont know. Perhaps we might need more time to wait but as of now, it doesn't look good. Most major apps aren't available and that's a huge problem. Of course, I dont expect Google's mobile apps but at least I expected Instagram on Mac. I paid a 3rd party Instagram app but the developer ran away(...) Since WWDC 2021 developer session released from last week, I would probably gonna wait.

Any thoughts?

The most important is

1. developer will run away is not profitable .
2. iOS market is very 2 small compare android
3. MacOs market is just mere 10 to 20 percent . Too risky . Introduction of m1 arm make developer more delay the output unless big company.
4. Development cost is high

 

[ADGrant]

The most important is

1. developer will run away is not profitable .
2. iOS market is very 2 small compare android
3. MacOs market is just mere 10 to 20 percent . Too risky . Introduction of m1 arm make developer more delay the output unless big company.
4. Development cost is high

The iOS market is almost twice the size of the Android market in terms of total App Store revenue. The tablet ecosystem for iPadOS is much healthier than the Android equivalent.

Development costs for iOS are generally lower than Android too because there are fewer OS and hardware variants to support.

 

[alien3dx]

The iOS market is almost twice the size of the Android market in terms of total App Store revenue. The tablet ecosystem for iPadOS is much healthier than the Android equivalent.

Development costs for iOS are generally lower than Android too because there are fewer OS and hardware variants to support.

iOS market yeah revenue a bit high is for apple not for developer . Understood.

You're not developer you cannot said it was lower even with android fragmentation . Android phone are cheap to buy and to test it and the price is 10x cheaper . A windows laptop much cheaper to developer compare to Apple platform .

 

[falainber]

The iOS market is almost twice the size of the Android market in terms of total App Store revenue. The tablet ecosystem for iPadOS is much healthier than the Android equivalent.

Development costs for iOS are generally lower than Android too because there are fewer OS and hardware variants to support.

You are comparing Play Store with App Store. But Play Store is just a fraction of the Android market. The whole market also includes Galaxy Store, Amazone Appstore, multiple Android app stores in China (unlike App Store, Play Store does not work in China) and probably some other stores.

 

[sunny5]

Sideloading iOS Apps No Longer Possible on M1 Macs

Apple this week implemented a server side blocking mechanism to prevent M1 Mac owners from sideloading iOS apps that have not been made available on the Mac by iOS app developers. Image via 9to5Mac As noted by 9to5Mac, it is no longer possible to use third-party apps like iMazing to obtain an...

forums.macrumors.com

I really think Apple should allow side loading or something similar on Mac's App Store. Otherwise, most apps won't gonna support on AS Mac.

 

[alien3dx]

Sideloading iOS Apps No Longer Possible on M1 Macs

Apple this week implemented a server side blocking mechanism to prevent M1 Mac owners from sideloading iOS apps that have not been made available on the Mac by iOS app developers. Image via 9to5Mac As noted by 9to5Mac, it is no longer possible to use third-party apps like iMazing to obtain an...

forums.macrumors.com

I really think Apple should allow side loading or something similar on Mac's App Store. Otherwise, most apps won't gonna support on AS Mac.

it's double edge sword advert by apple before. Before i'm as developer thinking ohh my apps for sure in m1 . Reality not . It's should be compile in Universal. Now developing two apps and hope can be view in m1 and ipad also.. Ohh time is precious

 

[sunny5]

it's double edge sword advert by apple before. Before i'm as developer thinking ohh my apps for sure in m1 . Reality not . It's should be compile in Universal. Now developing two apps and hope can be view in m1 and ipad also.. Ohh time is precious

So what is your thoughts and suggestions? No hopes for using mobile apps on Mac directly?

 

[ADGrant]

iOS market yeah revenue a bit high is for apple not for developer . Understood.

You're not developer you cannot said it was lower even with android fragmentation . Android phone are cheap to buy and to test it and the price is 10x cheaper . A windows laptop much cheaper to developer compare to Apple platform .

Actually I am a developer.

 

[alien3dx]

So what is your thoughts and suggestions? No hopes for using mobile apps on Mac directly?

apple product is a premium product and the most apple would experdite development is xcode can run in iOS which a lot more indie developer want to try and develop directly into device .A lot of company i work before shock upon hardware cost requirement just to make an apps in iOS

 

[alien3dx]

Actually I am a developer.

if you developer you should know the mess up apple does upon dungeon screen of size which before steve dont want it and with now what ? ios 12 , 14 and 15 to test which no diff at all with android fragmentation . So i concluded you are not developer

 

[ADGrant]

You are comparing Play Store with App Store. But Play Store is just a fraction of the Android market. The whole market also includes Galaxy Store, Amazone Appstore, multiple Android app stores in China (unlike App Store, Play Store does not work in China) and probably some other stores.

I am sure that the total revenue of all those stores combined is still less than the iOS App Store but what you have highlighted is the fragmentation of the Android ecosystem. I can release one app on iOS to one App Store and reach the entire iOS ecosystem. If I target iOS 14 I cover 90% of iOS devices released in the last 4 years, if I target iOS 12, my app will run on all 64bit iOS phones and tablets.

An Android device that does not support the Play Store does not have access to the full set of Google APIs. Devices not supported or approved by Google are really not the same platform as a standard Google supported phone.

 

[ADGrant]

if you developer you should know the mess up apple does upon dungeon screen of size which before steve dont want it and with now what ? ios 12 , 14 and 15 to test which no diff at all with android fragmentation . So i concluded you are not developer

You are free to conclude whatever you like but Apple addressed the screen size issues years ago on UIKit with constraint based layouts. iOS 14 covers over 90% of iOS devices released in the last four years and 79% of all iOS devices. Android 10 accounts for only 40% of the Android market. iOS devices are all designed by Apple, Android devices can be created anyone without even a Google license.