iOS/iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon Mac is still bad. Are they really working on it?

[dmccloud]

iOS market yeah revenue a bit high is for apple not for developer . Understood.

You're not developer you cannot said it was lower even with android fragmentation . Android phone are cheap to buy and to test it and the price is 10x cheaper . A windows laptop much cheaper to developer compare to Apple platform .

Unless you have worked on developing mobile apps (as I have), you also really have no grounds to stand on. With iOS development (especially using XCode), it is relatively simple to code once and publish to multiple devices. A lot of the device-specific callouts (based on screen resolution, SoC, etc.) can be generated via XCode at the time of compilation, which is a massive time saver. On the Android side, you're essentially facing the same obstacles Windows developers face, since there are so many variances in hardware, OS version, screen resolution, processors, etc. And that is before even taking into account alternative app distribution channels, the Amazon App store (which is a forked branch of Android sans Google apps and services), Samsung's Galaxy Store, Chinese alternatives such as Tencent and whatever Huawei is cooking up this week. Most developers are going to focus their limited development resources on areas most likely to generate revenue. For the bulk of mobile developers that will be iOS, simply because the iOS userbase is more likely to both purchase apps and make in-app purchases (pay-to-win BS such as Clash of Clans notwithstanding).

 

[Leon1das]

After leaving apps-safe 11.2.2 I moved to Monterey and am stoked that some of my fav iPad apps still work:

Google Maps, Play Books, Google Authenticator, some medical books (incl MSD Manual Pro).. even my fav iPhone Guitar Tuner app...
Heck, I play ARM version of Baldurs Gate for iPad on my M1 Mac and avoiding the Steam's Rosetta version...

Clearly, devs who wanted - could have just let their apps happen on M1 Macs without any issue, so I slowly come to realize that this not Apple's fault but more devs approach: opening app to the new hardware platform without rework - makes it possible that same users who already rated it high for iPhone/iPad - now start changing their ratings as their M1 Mac experience is not optimal.

And no-one wants to do the rework for free...

 

[thenewperson]

They messed up, so it's up to them to fix the problem.

Fix what? Turning off the feature isn’t a fix (and what difference would that make vs just not using an iOS app?) and forcing iOS apps to work on Macs, disregarding the feelings of the developers of these apps isn’t a fix either.

The developers are in charge of the decision on whether to bring their apps to M1 Macs or not. They have to be the ones convinced it’s more of a win than a loss.

 

[Slartibart]

What we have here is a serious problem -- Apple said we can run iOS apps on out M1 Mac's, and that's one of the reasons I bought the M1, but *none* of my regular iOS apps will run on it -- what's the remedy, and there has to be one. I really, really, really, hate false advertising.

so you tried to push the developer of these apps to make them available? Or - probably the better way 🤓 - contacted them asking why they don’t do that? What was their reply?

 

[bobcomer]

Fix what?

The false advertising.

Turning off the feature isn’t a fix

It is to me -- making it not a selling feature of M1 Macs since that didn't work out and admitting they messed up in thinking iOS developers would like the idea is about all I want. (unless they want to give me a refund that is, and that's not going to happen.)

 

[xraydoc]

Perhaps when iPadOS 15 hits along with Monterey, Apple could give apps that also work on the Mac preferential treatment (spotlight on the App Store front page, etc). Something to encourage developers to optimize their iPad apps for the Mac.

 

[Slartibart]

The false advertising.

but you can run iOS/iPadOS apps on your M1 Mac. 🤓🥳

It is to me -- making it not a selling feature of M1 Macs since that didn't work out and admitting they messed up in thinking iOS developers would like the idea is about all I want. (unless they want to give me a refund that is, and that's not going to happen.)

Besides that: if running iOS/iPadOS apps is important to you, what about getting an iOS/iPadOS device?

I understand the convenience aspect but if a developer decides not to offer an app on MacOS, well, you have to use a different platform, haven‘t you?
That’s actually true for any program on whatever platform. 😎

nota bene: I just skimmed Apple.com and couldn’t find any reference to this feature. So maybe they don’t treat it as a very important selling feature? 😀

 

[honam1021]

After leaving apps-safe 11.2.2 I moved to Monterey and am stoked that some of my fav iPad apps still work:

Google Maps, Play Books, Google Authenticator, some medical books (incl MSD Manual Pro).. even my fav iPhone Guitar Tuner app...
Heck, I play ARM version of Baldurs Gate for iPad on my M1 Mac and avoiding the Steam's Rosetta version...

Clearly, devs who wanted - could have just let their apps happen on M1 Macs without any issue, so I slowly come to realize that this not Apple's fault but more devs approach: opening app to the new hardware platform without rework - makes it possible that same users who already rated it high for iPhone/iPad - now start changing their ratings as their M1 Mac experience is not optimal.

And no-one wants to do the rework for free...

The sideload block affect IPAs downloaded after January 15 from what I can tell, if you grabbed yours before that they will continue to work on 11.3 and beyond.

I have an older IPA of an opted-out app that installs and runs fine on 11.4, trying to sideload the latest version resulted in the "Did not intend for this platform" error message as expected.

 

[alien3dx]

Unless you have worked on developing mobile apps (as I have), you also really have no grounds to stand on. With iOS development (especially using XCode), it is relatively simple to code once and publish to multiple devices. A lot of the device-specific callouts (based on screen resolution, SoC, etc.) can be generated via XCode at the time of compilation, which is a massive time saver. On the Android side, you're essentially facing the same obstacles Windows developers face, since there are so many variances in hardware, OS version, screen resolution, processors, etc. And that is before even taking into account alternative app distribution channels, the Amazon App store (which is a forked branch of Android sans Google apps and services), Samsung's Galaxy Store, Chinese alternatives such as Tencent and whatever Huawei is cooking up this week. Most developers are going to focus their limited development resources on areas most likely to generate revenue. For the bulk of mobile developers that will be iOS, simply because the iOS userbase is more likely to both purchase apps and make in-app purchases (pay-to-win BS such as Clash of Clans notwithstanding).

Yeah , im developer and i dont prefer to test in emulator nor simulator . When you live /beta test /testflight all weird thing will happen . Huawei is the mess is last my job since no gms no sure what going on . Huawei even no gms still people use it. 😂

 

[bobcomer]

but you can run iOS/iPadOS apps on your M1 Mac. 🤓🥳

But I can't run the ones I want to run.

Besides that: if running iOS/iPadOS apps is important to you, what about getting an iOS/iPadOS device?

I already have several -- how do you think I have a preference for iOS apps? It would be far more convenient to me if I'm sitting at my Mac and I could open an iOS app right there if I need to do something, rather than picking up another device -- I was actually looking forward to that. Anything that saves me time is a big plus.

I understand the convenience aspect but if a developer decides not to offer an app on MacOS, well, you have to use a different platform, haven‘t you?
That’s actually true for any program on whatever platform. 😎

Or I could just skip it and forget about paying money for Macs, even though it's what i want to run at home. I'd just keep using my Intel Mac's until they are no more.

ota bene: I just skimmed Apple.com and couldn’t find any reference to this feature. So maybe they don’t treat it as a very important selling feature? 😀

Good, maybe they're de-emphasizing it already. I saw it in the November keynote and ordered it in part for that reason. I also wanted to see how it did at running Windows in a VM as in the keynote as well, and I was disappointed on both counts, so forgive me if I sound a bit grumpy. I've said I'm going to buy an upgrade from my M1 MBA, and I probably will, but I'll have WAY different expectations in what I'll want it to do.

I really hate being lied to, but live and learn.

And to answer any question about my thinking having any influence on the Mac or Apple, definitely not, I'm just venting...

 

[thenewperson]

The false advertising.


It is to me -- making it not a selling feature of M1 Macs since that didn't work out and admitting they messed up in thinking iOS developers would like the idea is about all I want. (unless they want to give me a refund that is, and that's not going to happen.)

I mean, if the issue is false advertising turning it off isn't really a fix, it just puts it out of mind (which can also be accomplished by... just not using those apps, which apparently is the case for you already since they aren't available ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). But again, actually running those apps rests with the developer ultimately. The machine can run them, it's still up to the developers to enable them.

 

[alien3dx]

I mean, if the issue is false advertising turning it off isn't really a fix, it just puts it out of mind (which can also be accomplished by... just not using those apps, which apparently is the case for you already since they aren't available ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). But again, actually running those apps rests with the developer ultimately. The machine can run them, it's still up to the developers to enable them.

my fav game genshin impact work in side load but still they dont want to publish it. The most conclusion for a normal developer is ? Are we want to create a team support for merely maybe less 100 people playing it ? Or better give resources to which money come in.

 

[dmccloud]

Well, if Apple don't mandates every developers to develop for both iOS and macOS, nobody wish to optimize their apps on Mac.

Why would you mandate that? A lot of the iOS apps are aimed at a different user paradigm than apps for MacOS. Many iOS apps take advantage of the built-in GPS, compass, and gyroscopic functions of the iPhone, none of which are in any MacOS machine. Not all apps would even make sense on the Mac, so mandating MacOS/iOS development would by default restrict development to apps that work well on the Mac, but would be a poor fit for the iOS/iPadOS user interface. Games like Pokemon Go would be borderline useless on the Mac, and apps such as Facebook and Instagram already have robust web interfaces that are more user-friendly (in my opinion) than their mobile counterparts.

 

[dmccloud]

But that's not what happens, you don't choose to offer it on MacOS, but you choose to hide it from MacOS. I agree it's semantics, but it really doesn't mean you support it if you don't hide it.

That's where the disclaimer comes in...

It's an opt-in mechanism, meaning the developers have to go and enable the flag to make the apps available on MacOS. By default, apps are NOT automatically flagged as cross-platform.

 

[Slartibart]

It's an opt-in mechanism, meaning the developers have to go and enable the flag to make the apps available on MacOS. By default, apps are NOT automatically flagged as cross-platform.

And Apple would feel a disturbance in the force if it would be the other way round. 😎

 

[Slartibart]

But I can't run the ones I want to run.

out of curiosity - what apps do you want to run?

 

[Frixos]

Apple advertised that iOS/iPadOS can be used directly on AS Mac during the WWDC 2020. I was excited at that time but when I got the first M1 Mac mini on November, 2020, I was very disappointed and it never worked like they advertised. The touch system didnt work well, UI and resolution were terrible, and most importantly, most apps aren't available on Mac's App Store. But I had to admit it's just the beginning so I waited several months.

Now, it didnt changed much since then. I think people were able to use iOS/iPadOS apps which didnt support on AS Mac somehow but Apple blocked that method. (I dont know exactly so I gotta find an article) Why not just allow that since developers have to optimize their mobile apps on Mac separately which costs more time and money? The alternative touch mode and controlling mode sucks too and I expected more from it. And yet, it didnt' improve anything.

I do aware that there are a few apps support AS Mac pretty well such as Night Sky and it brew my mind. But most of them aren't.

As of today, Mac's App Store for iOS/iPadOS is full of trash apps and mobile app developers aren't willing to support for AS Mac so far. I really think iOS/iPadOS on Mac is a great idea but are they really willing to support that idea? Well, I dont know. Perhaps we might need more time to wait but as of now, it doesn't look good. Most major apps aren't available and that's a huge problem. Of course, I dont expect Google's mobile apps but at least I expected Instagram on Mac. I paid a 3rd party Instagram app but the developer ran away(...) Since WWDC 2021 developer session released from last week, I would probably gonna wait.

Any thoughts?

We still have plenty of programs that run via Rosetta. So, I’m sure this will take a bit longer.

 

[bobcomer]

It's an opt-in mechanism, meaning the developers have to go and enable the flag to make the apps available on MacOS. By default, apps are NOT automatically flagged as cross-platform.

I understood that it's the other way around, got any proof of that? (that they have to opt out, and in is the default.)

 

[bobcomer]

out of curiosity - what apps do you want to run?

Too many to name, but banking apps, home control stuff, things like that and more. Basically anything I do with my phone or ipads.

 

[Slartibart]

I understood that it's the other way around, got any proof of that? (that they have to opt out, and in is the default.)

It is apparently opt-out.

 

[Lihp8270]

It's an opt-in mechanism, meaning the developers have to go and enable the flag to make the apps available on MacOS. By default, apps are NOT automatically flagged as cross-platform.

It’s been a short while since I last did any fresh submission.

But if I remember correctly the box is automatically ticked and you need to go to untick it

 

[alien3dx]

It’s been a short while since I last did any fresh submission.

But if I remember correctly the box is automatically ticked and you need to go to untick it

not sure also . last year i submit . now in hand got 2 apps in making ios and maybe end this month publish. not sure even to enable universal binary yet.

ios15 cater a lot of problem on swift ui issue but really unsure are i should wait of just publish.

 

[thenewperson]

It’s been a short while since I last did any fresh submission.

But if I remember correctly the box is automatically ticked and you need to go to untick it

Yeah that's how it was when I had to check in it 2020.

 

[Slartibart]

Too many to name, but banking apps, home control stuff, things like that and more. Basically anything I do with my phone or ipads.

Well, your bank will know why they do not support their app on MacOS, but from my experience with banks - admittingly only European ones - the functionality is available via web access (Heck, most of the banks I use have less functionality in their respective app).

Apple’s Home app runs on MacOS.

 

[bobcomer]

Well, your bank will know why they do not support their app on MacOS,

Banks, and I seriously doubt it -- it seems to be just a normal reaction by iOS developers.

but from my experience with banks - admittingly only European ones - the functionality is available via web access (Heck, most of the banks I use have less functionality in their respective app).

I absolutely hate web access with a passion, they are pale imitations of an iOS app at best for my U.S. banks, and at worst, they have more connection problems than apps do. The best of all would be a MacOS app, but that isn't happening either.