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Its been about 15 years of Apples handsomest executives spewing this nonsense. No matter how many times they try to insist we just have to buy an ipad + a macbook pro to do the job, it becomes more and more obvious every year, as the hardware rivals the MBP itself, that what the iPad Pro is sorely missing is a big display and Mac OS, just like we were anticipating in 2007. They already spent the big money developing the hardware, & the softies be cheap & easy at this point. The only reason not to do it is they can bet on selling twice as many products when each one does half of what one would do.

i will continue to use mac os on my wacom touch display even if only to spite them, no matter how bad of a job wacom and apple make of driver support.
 
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macOS is definitely not coming to the iPad. Will be interesting to see a MacBook with a touch screen.
 
Apple still sells more iPads than Macs. Clearly people really like iPads and iPadOS. I think for people living in the tech-o-sphere, they want iPads to be something that they're not. But for most users, they seem very happy with what iPads can do today.
We were thinking of coming out with a whole marketing campaign for this new line of products we worked out over the last few years, but then someone from middle management in really comfortable shoes read your post and we realized, existing products that are on the market sell better than our new ones that arent, so most users seem very happy with what they have to choose from today. So we threw all our future products in the dumpster, fired our designers and engineers, and gave our most comfortable middle managers a big raise.
 
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There aren’t that many people who want macOS. You’re living in a tech bubble with tech diehards who want to manipulate Terminal settings. The 99.9% of regular people like iPadOS just the way it is. They don’t want a Mac. They want the ultra portability and simplicity of iPadOS. IPadOS is just fine and doesn’t need any fundamental changes.

I've read a few variations of this argument over the years, and I just deeply disagree. Your argument basically boils down to "people who use the iPad as a consumption device in the way Steve Jobs originally introduced it (email, photos, ebooks, etc) don't have an issue with a lack of productivity features". Fine for iPad and iPad Air - those are not categories that anyone is complaining about. The issue comes with the iPad Pro and professional usage.

There are a few basic productivity tasks that, in my opinion, people should be able to do comfortably on an iPad Pro. Creative things like recording a podcast, editing and publishing YouTube or TikTok content, photography and graphic design at a professional level. Virtually every person I've read that has tried doing these things repeatedly using iPad Pro and iPadOS as their main tools has said there's too many limitations, and they're all over the place. There's a few that said it's doable if you really committed to the task, but it's definitely not as smooth as just doing it on Windows or macOS. These are type the tasks that Apple itself is actively marketing the iPad Pro for. Almost everyone that has tried using the tool for the thing Apple says the tool is built for says it doesn't work because of software.

There's other professional tasks that Apple hasn't explicitly marketed the iPad Pro for that I think should be possible on the platform as well: things like game development (or app development in general) or scientific modeling (like Matlab). There could be a natural progression path where people who grew up on iPhones could use iPads in the classroom and uni and actually stay on that platform when they need to start doing more serious computing. But now there is a point where everyone hits a glass ceiling in terms of what you can get done on the iPad, and needs to graduate towards macOS or Windows. And that's a shame on the one hand - and lost revenue for Apple on the other hand.


When I’ve surveyed people in the past, it isn’t iPadOS that people want a change to. They want to run Mac programs because they tend to be more mature than their iPad counterparts. That isn’t the OS. That’s the apps.

Blaming the apps and app developers is a cop-out. End users may say in a survey that they're fine with iPadOS but want more functionality out of the apps. But the whole reason the apps are limited in the first place is because iPadOS forces those limitations on the app developers.

If it would just be a few developers that chose to launch a more limited version of their app for iPadOS, the argument could work, then that would be on them. But if every single developer across the board runs into the same issues, the root cause doesn't sit with the individual devs, it sits with the overall platform design and Apple as its guardian.


So it’s not really iPadOS that people have a beef with. It’s that they own Mac programs they want to run. But consider this, people knock the MacBook Air for throttling and poor performance with high end Mac apps and consider the MacBook Air to be more of a casual consumer device. The iPad Pro is a lesser beast than even the MacBook Air with smaller battery and poorer thermals, yet people here want the iPad Pro to run software that would make an M3 Max MBP sweat.

So somehow apps that ran fine on an M1 MacBook Air (or going even further back, ran fine on years of Intel Macs) are too heavy for the M4 iPad Pro? Give me a break, this is not about hardware limitations like battery or thermals at all. It's not even about user experience or trade-offs between simplicity and productivity.

At the core of all of this discussion is Apple's monetisation model for all platforms post-iOS, including iPadOS. They're double-dipping on revenue per user by first selling you the hardware and then capturing additional recurring value through the App Store "service" revenue, also lovingly known as the "Apple tax". There's a whole ecosystem running on top of their platforms and they want a cut. Creating too much opennes on iPadOS would allow users to bypass App Store restrictions and jeopardise that model.

But here's the key thing that annoys me: the limitations that Apple puts in place to protect its service revenue cost users more than a few cents per app purchase - there's entire categories of tasks that are made more difficult or outright impossible just because Apple wants to keep everyone exactly within the confines of the walled garden model.

And the ironic thing is, it could actually work just fine. If they just did a better job at it. The lists of missing features that were recently written up by Jason Snell, Federico Viticci and Steve Troughton-Smith are pretty clear and pretty specific. There's nothing on there that Apple couldn't do if they decided to care enough, and they could get through most of it in just 1-2 years of OS iterations.
 
So in other words, Sidecar sums up their vision for the iPad in an iPhone + macOS world. Why you need an M4 in a glorified monitor is a question though.
 
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Ok so what I can get is Apple is perfectly happy to treat iPad as a glorified iPhone that can’t make/receive a phone call on their own, can’t send/receive SMS on their own, has no nfc chips and have a worse camera.
At least this can put the thought of iPadOS ever Evolving past iOS to rest as it will never happen.
 
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Hey Apple, why not try a Mac Ipad Ultra Pro, and watch the money flow in.
If they made a special iPad with as close to Mac OS as they could, those things would be on back order for so many months.
And they could charge the same as a MacBook Pro. Call it a Mac, so it doesn’t eat up the category for your stockholders or whatever makes you feel better.
It’s almost like they have to prove a point now and never do it.
 
Has anyone asked an Apple executive why they don't offer cellular on MacBooks?
They pay a percentage of the cost of the device to Qualcomm so an expensive computer with a modem would either make Apple no money but Qualcomm a lot, or they would have to charge insane prices for it
 
"You want a computer you can use as a full-fledged office productivity system, with easy, intuitive and (virtually) unlimited windowing and multitasking, and that you can also draw on? The answer's simple: pay through the nose for two devices! And stop complaining about needing to take two devices with you when you travel, ungrateful whiners!"

The arrogance and entitlement ("Just drop $4-10K on an iPad and an Mac and you can continuity!") would be breathtaking, were they not so typical of Apple management. Klunky, nerdy Microsoft can produce a decent tablet that does both. Apple can only make feeble excuses about abstract things like paradigms, i.e. straightjacketing users into OSes.
But therefore the Surface is a lousy tablet and a bad laptop. Compromises are not always the solution...
 
Apple still sells more iPads than Macs. Clearly people really like iPads and iPadOS. I think for people living in the tech-o-sphere, they want iPads to be something that they're not. But for most users, they seem very happy with what iPads can do today.
This is true for the iPads apart from the Pro models.
 
Lets face it the only thing that’s gonna sway Apple to make meaningful changes to iPadOS is if a competitor manages to release a compelling competing device that takes a big chunk out of both the ipad and macbook air market share.

You can understand why they won’t do it in the meantime, I’d very happily sell my macbook if my ipad was a little more capable. For what I need to do the ipad is plenty powerful enough.
 
There aren’t that many people who want macOS. You’re living in a tech bubble with tech diehards who want to manipulate Terminal settings. The 99.9% of regular people like iPadOS just the way it is. They don’t want a Mac. They want the ultra portability and simplicity of iPadOS. IPadOS is just fine and doesn’t need any fundamental changes.

When I’ve surveyed people in the past, it isn’t iPadOS that people want a change to. They want to run Mac programs because they tend to be more mature than their iPad counterparts. That isn’t the OS. That’s the apps. People may ask why iPad apps (some) can run on macOS while Mac apps cannot run on iPadOS, it’s because of sandboxing. macOS supports sandboxing, but is not enforced. IPadOS requires sandboxing, which very few Mac apps support. Mac apps are allowed to range all over the file system while sandboxing prevents that and would break Mac apps. That’s why Terminal and Finder are forbidden and will never happen and why Apple threw in Stage Manager instead of Finder. Finder just isn’t possible. If Apple were to change sandboxing, it would essentially be a complete rewrite of iPadOS since that is a core security feature of their mobile OS’es. If Apple had the opportunity to redo macOS, they’d make it more like iPadOS rather than the other way around. But the horse left that barn decades ago. Rewriting macOS would break almost all existing Mac apps.

Keep in mind Macs have been around for almost four decades with macOS being around for 20 years or so. IPadOS is very new with programmers, unfamiliar with how to write touch-first apps. There’s a steep learning curve, hence the slower pace of iPad apps. It’s flat out hard to write touch programs. Stalwarts like Photoshop promised fully desktop features, but it’s been three years and counting. Final Cut Pro is still missing plugins but is slowly moving forwards. DaVinci Resolve ported all their desktop tabs but hid all but two because they aren’t sure how well they’d work in a touch environment.

So it’s not really iPadOS that people have a beef with. It’s that they own Mac programs they want to run. But consider this, people knock the MacBook Air for throttling and poor performance with high end Mac apps and consider the MacBook Air to be more of a casual consumer device. The iPad Pro is a lesser beast than even the MacBook Air with smaller battery and poorer thermals, yet people here want the iPad Pro to run software that would make an M3 Max MBP sweat. Even if it were to run macOS where Apple shockingly makes it touch-friendly (it’s not in the least), no Mac apps are touch friendly. This is the same curse that hits Surface Pros. MS has tried since Vista to make a successful hybrid and has failed. One of the big reasons is the lack of touch friendly apps. Nobody wants to be tethered to a mouse and keyboard on a tablet, because it’s no longer a tablet if you do that. So why bother making an inferior device to a MacBook Air into a MacBook Pro? It’s a recipe for disaster, which is why Apple won’t do it. They’re not stupid enough to not see a disaster in the making, just watching Microsoft flail. It’s not that they’re out of touch with the people. They know exactly what most people want. MacOS isn’t it except with a small subset of the perpetually online geeks.
"Nobody wants to be tethered to a mouse and keyboard on a tablet, because it’s no longer a tablet if you do that"

If this is true why is Apple creating the Magic Keyboard that is more and more similar in every new iteration to the look and feel of a MacBook?
 
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Go to backmarket.com and buy a used ipad or imac. Stop directly giving apple money. They don't learn.
Did just exactly that yesterday. Bought a M1 iPP 12.9. There is no reason to have the new iPP running the simple Apps on iPad OS...
 
Sounds like a build up, to iPad OS being another let down in WWDC - A lot of people would LOVE the iPad to be competing and not even having a Mac
 
Except for the fact that the iPad DOES sell twice as many units in a year as all Macs put together. This year, it’s bound for 3 times or more. They’re already cannibalizing themselves here.
But most of these iPads are the low cost standard iPads. For these iPad OS is totally fine. Only for the around 10% iPad Pros people are asking for MacOS....
 
Blaming the apps and app developers is a cop-out. End users may say in a survey that they're fine with iPadOS but want more functionality out of the apps. But the whole reason the apps are limited in the first place is because iPadOS forces those limitations on the app developers.
Nobody can ever say what limits iPadOS puts on these apps. I do blame the developers because I used to be one of them. I’m retired now, but I’d been in the programming trenches for three decades. I’ve written desktop apps and mobile apps and embedded apps and have seen that touch apps are incredibly hard to write. Developers simply aren’t good at it, and I‘ve known hundreds of developers. Developers either don’t bother writing iPad apps because they’re hard or they lag behind their desktop counterparts because mouse-driven apps are so much easier to write. There are also a ton of good apps out there that take full advantage of the iPad’s capabilities. Do they all match the Mac’s capabilities? No, but the iPad can also do things Macs can’t. This is why Apple says they are complementary devices.

iPadOS doesn’t limit what apps do in any meaningful way. People who complain about this can never come up with how iPadOS supposedly limits what apps can do. The most nonsensical phrase I’ve ever heard of is, “Why put an M-series chip in an iPad when the OS can’t make full use of it?” Write an app correctly and you can use the full capabilities of the M4. There is nothing in iPadOS stopping that. There are a lot of very powerful apps on iPads. Fewer than on Mac, but still a lot. The same people who utter that phrase or something similar are the same ones who complain when Apple comes out with a feature or app that uses the unique capabilities of the M-series chip and then whine that they don’t work on their A12X or A12Z iPad. If anything about iPads limits apps, it’s because of its form factor and the touch-first aspect of a tablet, not its OS. In other words, Apple wants the iPad to be a tablet, not a desktop or laptop. Shocking, I know.

The solution is to pester the app developers. IPadOS can always use improvements (macOS isn’t exactly a panacea with its own annoying quirks), but there’s nothing inherently limiting about the OS. Two things on my wishlist are multiple audio sources simultaneously playing and the ability to eject external drives. Other than that, I can’t think of anything else I’d want as a developer or a consumer. As a developer, I have no interest whatsoever in seeing the file system in its entirety, nor do I have any desire to run Terminal, the two most often mentioned “limitations” of iPadOS, neither of which is an actual limitation.
 
Reads to me like they're digging their feet in on iPadOS being iPadOS.

Keep in mind this is a marketing VP for a company that almost never announces things in advance - what else did anyone think he would say?

That said, I really hope that inside Apple there is a recognition that the amazing iPad HW is being held back by the SW, and that serious efforts are underway to unleashed the iPad from its straitjacket.
 
"Nobody wants to be tethered to a mouse and keyboard on a tablet, because it’s no longer a tablet if you do that"

If this is true why is Apple creating the Magic Keyboard that is more and more similar in every new iteration to the look and feel of a MacBook?
It’s an optional item. Not everyone buy one. For instance, Apple also sells a Folio cover that works just fine with the iPad Pro that doesn’t have a trackpad or a keyboard. The new Folio, strangely not mentioned at the Let Loose event, is an improvement over the old one in that you can position the iPad Pro in four different ways rather than the original two. The Folio also makes it so much easier to draw on the iPad. It’s also only $99, so I’ll bet a lot more people buy that one than the Magic Keyboard. You can buy a Magic Keyboard if you want to, but Apple does not make it a requirement. Now put in an app that absolutely requires a keyboard and mouse. Those people who didn’t buy a Magic Keyboard are out of luck. That’s why Apple puts out a requirement that all iPad apps must be touch-first.

Is it really surprising Apple of all companies likes to have all of its products have a similar look and feel? It even has an official term: design language. I’ll posit that the trend Apple has of squaring off the edges started first on the iPhone and moved down to its other product lines. Nobody’s saying the iPhone’s look and feel means that we should run Mac apps on the iPhone.
 
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That said, I really hope that inside Apple there is a recognition that the amazing iPad HW is being held back by the SW, and that serious efforts are underway to unleashed the iPad from its straitjacket.

It's not being held back by anything. You can make any application you want on there. You can make a desktop class app that does everything you want.

Keep this in mind when you see a misinformation campaign like the one we are seeing now:

When you cede to unreasonable and unrealistic demands then those people who made the demands will become even more demanding. They will shift the goal posts and start to demand Linux preinstalls or Android preinstalls. There's no limit to what they will ask for if you have already given them a little.

It's like my dad used to say, and maybe yours said the same thing. If you give a greedy person a hand they will take your whole arm off.
 
So dumb. All the power of M4 for nothing. Keeping my 2018 IPP.
Same. There's still no reason for me to upgrade my 2018 iPad to complement by home and work Mac devices.

I was hoping that Apple might make a hybrid device that is an iPad firstly, but can dock and run MacOS when connected to a screen (like Samsung DeX but full OS experience and not just apps). The device is powerful enough to do this but clearly not in their business plan.
 
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