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I mean its a public forum for talking about Apple stuff with Apple enthusiasts. Isn't this the place to do exactly what I am doing?

Every single iPad Pro review released the last week has all said the same thing I have, and it's the same thing reviewers have been saying for years. My opinion isn't a new one.
I pick up my 13” iPP tomorrow complete with magic KB and stylus. This will replace my M1 iPP with magic KB and stylus.

I’m quite happy with iPadOS and categorically think MacOS would be a horrendous experience.

I use the iPP extensively and daily, and it gets way more use than my MBP. They complement each other, and they work great together.

I suggest you have a look at the Microsoft Surface line of devices as it sounds like that’s what you need. Good luck 👍
 
A simple question - is there any reason why an iPad Pro with an M4 chip couldn't be capable of running both iOS and MacOS? I think the top of the line M4 iPad, fully loaded, is around $3000. For that kind of money, I'd want an iPad Pro that switches to MacOs when connected to a magic keyboard. You get the best of both worlds. An iPad AND a MacBook Pro.
Capable, yes. Should it? No. There are multiple reasons why it’s a bad idea.

First of all, despite having an M4, the iPad is still not nearly as capable as the hardware on an MacBook Air since the battery and thermals are worse. At best, running macOS on it would turn it into a MacBook Air Junior. Since most people consider MacBook Airs to be consumer base models that are not meant for high end professional work, why do people assume a weaker device could perform like a high end MacBook Pro?

Second, supporting two completely separate OS’es would take up an awful lot of storage space, something most purchased iPads do not have. You’d have to have space for two OS’es and two entirely separate set of apps. While you can deck out an iPad with 2TB, it’s not economical. iPad Airs have half the storage the Pros do, and you know that if macOS came to the iPad Pros, the whining would be insufferable from those demanding Apple also run macOS on the iPad Air “because they run the same processors”!

Third, macOS is incredibly touch-hostile. The user experience is awful, as Craig Federighi said years ago when he mentioned in an interview that they had macOS running on iPads in their labs. Because of that bad experience, Apple decided it would be a bad idea to adopt macOS on iPads.

Fourth, it would completely kill the iPad. I’ve mentioned any number of times that it’s really hard to write a good touch-based app, the main reason iPad apps lag behind their desktop counterparts. I’ve used the example of Photoshop. Adobe promised it would eventually have feature parity with the Mac version. Three years later and it’s still not close. Apple’s own Final Cut Pro took years to write and it still lags quite a bit behind the desktop version. If iPads started running Mac apps or ran macOS, developers would stop making iPad programs entirely. We’d end up with a Mac Surface instead of a tablet.

I’ve heard a lot of people say that if you don’t want macOS, you don’t have to use it and just stay on the iPadOS side of things. But that makes the erroneous conclusion that the presence of macOS wouldn’t affect those users. Developers will take the easy way out and just write mouse-based programs for macOS that would substitute for iPad apps. That would either deprive iPad users out of future iPad apps or would force those users into a touch-hostile environment, defeating the whole purpose of even buying an iPad. Lack of apps is what has stymied Android tablets. They have excellent hardware, too, but nobody buys them because there are no apps. The small niche users who want Mac apps would get what they want, but everyone else loses, eventually killing the iPad. Apple’s not going to sabotage the best tablet in the world by turning it into a bad hybrid. People think a hybrid is a panacea. If it were, Microsoft would dominate the tablet market with the unlimited apps Windows has. Instead, they flail with their Surface Pro line, forcing them to break their promise of Windows 10 being the last OS they’d ever make. It turns out Surface Pros are so compromised due to bad thermals and small battery that they end up being mediocre, underpowered laptops and horrible tablets since MS can’t convince any developers to optimize their apps for touch.

I’d also mention that almost nobody buys a fully decked out iPad, so almost nobody is paying $3000. Nobody’s paying $7000 for a fully decked out MacBook Pro either except maybe iJustine or MKBHD. Most people are paying $1600-2400. Using maxed out prices doesn’t mean anything. Just look at a fully decked out MacBook Air. Does anyone think it’s a good idea to buy one of those for nearly $3000? Yet I don’t see anyone complaining about any of those prices because nobody buys them. However, when it comes to iPads, I’ve seen multiple people complaining about the price of a fully loaded iPad, something I doubt anyone who mentions such a thing has any intention of buying one even if it did run macOS. Just as a $3000 MacBook Air would be ridiculous, so is paying $3000 for an iPad. Most would pay half that or less. For $3000, you should buy a $1300 iPad and a $1300 MacBook Air and end up with an excellent tablet and an excellent laptop and have some change left over.
 
I mean its a public forum for talking about Apple stuff with Apple enthusiasts. Isn't this the place to do exactly what I am doing?

Every single iPad Pro review released the last week has all said the same thing I have, and it's the same thing reviewers have been saying for years. My opinion isn't a new one. There's even a article by MacRumors on the front page noting the issues with iPadOS:

The examples you highlight are ragebaiters, clickbaiters and outliers, on top of disinformation campaigns from competitors.

Just note that almost every app you have used for a decade collects something called 'Usage Stats'. This tells the developers not only where bugs are but how you use the app, what you click on most, which tools are used most, how you like to configure prefs, and so on.

This data helps developers understand ways to improve their apps. They are already giving what users want and slowly introducing reasonably requested features. They cannot take on board the extreme opinions of minorities.
 
If Apple is sticking to its a complementary device than the 10th gen iPad is all anyone needs… This is what they should do. Kill off the Air and have the lineup be iPad 10th gen in 3 sizes (mini, 11 and 13) iPad Pro in 3 sizes (mini, 11 and 13). The pros would run an advanced version of iPadOS that would feel similar to Mac OS and the normal iPads would continue with the normal iPadOS.
 
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Apple spent millions upon millions/billions (alledgedly) researching/developing a car and the Vision Pro, when all a lot of people want (evident from the number of people here that say they want it) is an iPad that can run Mac apps, possibly even something more macOS like.

At the very least, Apple need to encourage more developers to build their apps for iPad, and make it easier to do so by opening up iPadOS's file system.

Instead, I know all we are probably going to see this year is Siri that is slightly less useless. *le sigh*
 
TLDR: We want more people to buy both so we deliberately gimp iPad to ensure that it's not quite as useful as it easily could be.
 
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The issue on forums is people with extreme opinions have a high opinion about themselves and forget that there are millions of people who are highly productive with the iPad and get on with their lives.

Could you please tell us if any suggestions to improve the iPad can be made without being hubristic, ungrateful or unrealistic?

If the answer is yes, could you kindly specify the criteria for which suggestions are allowed and which are not?

Unfortunately, us regular folks on the forum weren't handed the memo on what makes an acceptable suggestion for a feature or usability change
 
Does it need to run MacOS? I mean if they just put explorer instead of files and had better multitasking windows and let the iPad run most Mac Apps from iPadOs that would probably be good enough
 
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So if you're upset that your pricey new M4 iPad Pro and Magic Keyboard are lousy for Microsoft Excel and other apps you depend on, it's your fault for not also buying an M3 Macbook Pro. Is that Apple is saying, basically.
I think this is true. Apple doesn’t mind selling to folks that have already bought Apple products before, but their bigger goal is focusing on users they don’t even have yet. When they make products a wide number of current users don’t prefer, the expectation is that people that don’t currently own their products will find it valuable enough to buy.

They have said in the past that 50% of folks buying iPad are new to iPad, that is the result of that strategy.
 
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Boger is reading off a 10 year old script and has no mind pf his own. Touch first? Then why release a magic keyboard? Why have commercials touting how much of a “computer” it is when you added the external keyboard case. Why introduce and revamp features like multi tasking and external monitor support? And why is it so damn pricey and currently has newer “desktop” hardware then the desktop grade macs? The only complementary, touch first device in the iPad line up is the regular a A series ipad and the mini. The rest seem like products that is the result of internal conflict between departments of what the iPad should be. I dont even care for MacOS on the iPad as i appreciate and dont even mind the simplicity of iPadOS. Just give me “desktop grade” file management, window / tab management, and the ability to run MacOs apps in iPadOS like you already do vice versa.
 
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Congrats, just think of all the new things you can do with your new iPad. Oh wait a moment....
Not sure that the expectation is that you'll be able to do new thing things. You'll be able to do the same things as before, but a little bit faster, with a nicer screen, and much easier to handle physically due to the reduced thickness and weight (assuming you are coming from 1,2,3 generations ago. Any older and you'll notice a really big difference).
 
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Complimentary my ass. Maybe the base model Air could be use as a cheap extension screen and casual consumption device. But explain how an iPad Pro topping out at $2,600 before keyboard, pencil, AppleCare, and taxes is a complimentary device to a MacBook Pro that costs LESS at the same configuration.
The explanation would be, “People with money buy them for that purpose.” It doesn’t have to make sense to me to be true.
 
Every single iPad Pro review released the last week has all said the same thing I have, and it's the same thing reviewers have been saying for years. My opinion isn't a new one. There's even a article by MacRumors on the front page noting the issues with iPadOS:
Does the word, bubble, mean anything to you? The problem with YouTube and Mac forums is that they’re populated by all the same kind of people, geeks who like to play with Terminal. If that approaches 1% of the iPad buying public, I’d be surprised. Step outside the bubble and see what ordinary people making up 99% of the users think. I doubt any of them want macOS. Watch some other YouTubers like Christopher Lawley or DailyTekk to see how not limited iPads are without needing Mac apps. There are a ton of professional quality apps on iPad available, along with plenty of powerful apps that don’t exist on the Mac.

I’m also a geek who likes to play with Terminal, but I also talk with lots of non-geeks, so I do step outside the bubble on occasion.
 
Jason Snell has a good iPad Pro review up. Like Federico Viticci he would love it if iPad Pro could be his primary device but it can’t be because of iPadOS limitations.

IMG_0816.jpegIMG_0817.jpeg

Jason Snell is well known inside Apple. He was at the press event for these new iPads. I know Apple employees read his stuff. I don’t believe their answer to him is buy two devices. Yet that’s where he’s at. I also don’t believe Apple employees want to see reviews that spend so much time complaining about software. So is it who is forcing iPadOS to be held back and why? Is it coming from Craig Federighi? Or is it product marketing saying it needs to be as simple to use as possible so grandma on her iPad mini can use it no problem? Then why not have the mini and base level iPad run iOS and make iPadOS more full featured but limited to the Air and Pro?
 
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They should rewrite iPadOS, then, because the limitations caused by sandboxing are crippling the iPads ability to be more.
They would never do it for obvious reasons. They spent millions of dollars and years of R&D on ways to accommodate the security of sandboxing. Apple’s big thing is privacy and security, yet just because a niche few want to run Mac apps, they want to throw away all the security of iPadOS, something macOS lacks to a great degree. That’s why viruses and other exploits hit macOS a lot more than they do iPadOS. You may be willing to throw away all that security, but Apple is not. Neither am I after someone hacked my Mac, despite it never leaving home, and stole all my crypto in my Exodus wallet. I had to wipe my Mac entirely and reinstall it from scratch without using any backups. I’ve never had to do that with my iPad because of its security. It’s not impervious, but it is a lot more secure than macOS could ever be.

The real answer is to get developers to write iPad apps while retaining sandboxing. Apple even put sandboxing into macOS, but they cannot enforce it since that would break every app out there. Apple can only recommend Mac apps adopt it. But that should tell you their mindset. They would prefer to rewrite macOS and enforce sandboxing over removing it from iPadOS. Pigs would fly first before Apple removes sandboxing.
 
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If the Mac and iPad are supposed to compliment each others ability, why isn't there uniformity of use between the two? The VP's rhetoric doesn't align with current Apple use reality, in my opinion.
It does, in the fact that for a "device that can work with all your apps and has a touch screen" is two devices and can cost upwards of $5k. They don't want the PC market where that same cost point is $1-2k.
 
I'm not quite old enough, but all these macos on iPad posts make me wonder, was the same debate going on back in the day between the original Mac series and the Apple II series?
Yes, I looked it up a couple years ago. One of the big complaints was that it was not compatible with all the software people already owned. And, of the software it WAS compatible with, it didn’t have VisiCalc or anything like it. “How is anyone expected to do any real work on this thing?” stuff like that. The software arrived over time (not all, but VisiCalc was nothing compared to the eventual desktop publishing revolution), and the arrival of the IIGS, which brought forward a lot of the look and feel with a high resolution color screen plus the ability to add internal peripherals. It had many wondering when they’d merge the two.

Of course, they never did, and that’s been their mo ever since, even when it was the same hardware underneath (OS9-OSX). And, a lot of folks were left with the platform they’d been using for 10+ years not seeing any further updates. It’s not new… it WILL happen again and, by the time some folks decide to stop buying Apple products, they’ll have been replaced by millions of folks that bought an iPad never understanding they’re lacking a “filesystem” and a “Finder” and other things that they just have no knowledge of (or care to know about).
 
In other words, the only way the iPad Pro gets macOS is if they kill the iPad Pro and make a new “MacBook Touch”.

Which I honestly think they should just do that. Then the iPad lineup becomes a lot cleaner and we can finally get macOS with touch interface integrated.
 
This is probably true. I guess it's also the tech diehards who complain about a lack of productivity on the iPad. The majority of the target user doesn't want to be productive, they mostly just want to consume and maybe communicate.
Which the iPad Pro is overkill for. Apple employs a lot of smart people. There has to be a way to improve it for those who want to use it for productivity while not over complicating it for those who just want to use it as a consumption device or to play games on it. My guess is there are things they could improve for ‘power users’ that ‘basic users’ wouldn’t even notice because they’re using the device for different things. Making iPad OS more powerful and feature rich doesn’t have to make the UI more complicated for someone who’s just browsing the web, reading emails, watching video or playing games.
 
Well, yeah, but if you have a limited budget and need to choose which one makes more sense for your needs, things become more complicated.
 
I have both and the iPad Pro has literally sat new, almost unused for the last 2 years. It literally does nothing for my uses that a Mac can’t do. I can see the iPad having some unique features but I don’t see it as a complete standalone. Honestly I wouldn’t have even bought it if given a second chance.

For me it is the opposite - my 2015 MBP sits there very rarely used nowadays, I guess I get roughly these percentages of use:

iPhone - 70%
iPad - 25%
MacBook - 5%

The biggest perk of an iPad for me is its lightness and portability, as well as virtual keyboards in different languages.
 
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