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Good news though, dongles up and increasing in market share.

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I was drinking my morning hot cocoa and you almost make me ruin my keyboard you bastard.
 
"FBI Director James Comey argued privately that it was too close to Election Day for the United States government to name Russia as meddling in the U.S. election"

talk about calling the kettle black
 
Are developers just waiting for each other to release a really great desktop-caliber app? I'm surprised Adobe hasn't done Photoshop on there yet. I'd love a simpler iPad photoshop that has full PSD compatibility. Maybe it doesn't have every single feature (layers with unsupported features would be read-only, let's say) but it would be great to have it on the go like that.

Just do it, stop waiting.


there is no incentive to.

Great desktop-caliber apps have different pricing/licensing structures.

A. they aren't $4.99. Much higher usually. Even with the subs. See adobe went to subs to get more money. Under old scheme people did not upgrade every release. See patch notes, go nothing really here I need....opt to not buy even the cheaply priced upgrade annually. Or even every other release. 2-3, 4 if pushing it (adobe started to crack down on that at some point) years of old license use...you had that option. With subs, you pay to renew...or you lose application access.



B. the best licensed use setup you are getting is 2 licenses with desktop software. Assumed desktop and laptop use to have you working at home and the laptop the we'll be nice to you for mobile work. Want more licenese, see the order page and buy more licenses. iOS....I pay $4.99, DL on my now 5 devices (2 mini's, 1 ipp 9.7, 2 iphone 6's). iOS licensing is not helping pay the bills for "real" applications.

C. Some real applications get real system level in terms of access. they will not work in the confines of iOS. they need more system access that the locked iOS does not grant. I use an application called R for data analysis as an example. It will never come to iOS. How it does it thing and how iOS does it things....they will not play very nice together. R says I need to root around here a bit, iOS says no.
 
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The 9.7 size is not for me. I was constantly returning those prior to the Pro. I'm either 12.9" or mini, thanks though. I wouldn't use it enough to warrant it, as much as I enjoyed doodling with the pencil.
Regardless, I was reacting to your comment that the IPP was over $1000, which is not correct.

It's too bad you don't like the 9.7. Fits well within my use case, but, but obviously everyone has their own needs.
 
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Im not talking about the surface studio I'm talking about the surface book. What is in line with the same price. can be used as a tablet but runs full software. Not mobile software.
I have a surface book and the pc part is fine generally, but in my opinion the surface are an awful tablet. The iPad is the best tablet out there, I think if that got meshed into macOs, macbook pro form factor, it wouldn't work, as the iPad is a post PC device, as the surface line are a pc device trying (badly) to be post pc devices.

They have a market because in my opinion its better to buy the hardware from the software developers, as who could do it better? But the problem with the surface was they just dumped windows on it, as with apple they wrote a brand new OS for iPhones and iPads to give a way better user experience, my 4 and 5 year olds can use their iPads no problems but not the surface tablets. I bought an apple watch recently and gave it to my wife to play with, she never used one and could immediately figure it out, these are the reasons I still love apple and just compromise by using anything else.
 
And Apple has to bring developers to the table. To create the paradigm shift, there needs to be some kind of leap in software married to tablet hardware that supersedes the PC.

Whenever anyone calls for some yet unevisioned technology to replace the highly usable in place technology, think that person is out of touch. What are you talking about? What is the bridge to tablet based utopia, venturing far beyond mortal input devices and file systems?
 
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One, the Pro was marketed as a laptop replacement. And it can be. But, iPads and tablets in general can also serve as an augmentation to a laptop. Common Jane or Joe can buy the cheaper iPad Air 2 or Mini to do 90% of what they want and then rely on their five year old laptop (that Apple dissed) for the last 10%. That old laptop can now be used for six or more years as it's not doing the heavy lifting.

Two, screen saturation. Amazon practically throws tablets at customers. There is a massive amount of Android tablets on the market. Large screen phones are everywhere. Bobby Public is not lacking for great choices in or out of the Apple ecosystem. And if you're in the Apple ecosystem, your old iPad is probably still going strong.

Three, app discovery and workflow. Most iPad fans on this site are bullish on tech, and if confronted by having to find out how to do something on an iPad, will say "Challenge, accepted" and will take the time to research a solution. Most consumers will say, "I ain't go time for this" and will convert to solving their problem the familiar way, using a traditional computer, or printing out documents, scanning them back in, etc. I love being able to review, change, mark up, sign and fax documents from my iPad Pro. But, it wasn't an "it just works" experience. I had to put time and effort into finding the right apps and developing a workflow, such as always using DropBox as my 'Save To' destination vice the app itself. Apple needs to develop more capability within either their current iWorks apps or develop additional ones that provide easy to discover business (Pro) capabilities.
 
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maybe bring force touch to the screen. I returned mine because it doesn't have it.

Yeah it puzzled me that Apple didn't add it to the iPad Pro. Sometimes while I'm using my iPad Pro I start hard pressing to bring up force touch options and then I remember no force touch.
 
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Not surprising.

All those general users that have no need for the additional features and price of the Pro. Think about all the iPads sold to be used as cash registers. Not at all surprising that most of the iPad buyers didn't opt for the Pro.

Guess what? The Porsche 918 made up less than 1% of Porsche's sales last year.

Yeah, those cash registers? More often than not they're iPad 3's and 4's bought used or refurbished for a fraction of what an Air 2 would cost. Who needs fancy or brand new when the thing is basically running one simple app?
 
Regardless, I was reacting to your comment that the IPP was over $1000, which is not correct.

It's too bad you don't like the 9.7. Fits well within my use case, but, but obviously everyone has their own needs.

I love that late 2008 link in your sig. Checking that last page of that comments thread

You just do not get it! When a PC with the same specs save for the LED display sells for $450 at Walmart you exclude a HUGE portion of the market and no matter how you parse it that is a way to limit your market share. I am an Apple fan - I have all Apple computers and I own iPhones and iPods but so what? When an entry-level MacBook (redesigned) sells for $1300? Get real as you just excluded 90% of the computer population hence Apple with less than 10% market share. Yes, they are growing but they WILL hit a brick-wall in price versus demand especially at $1300 to get 'into' a new MacBook. They dropped the specs, increased the price and pulled what is for many a VERY important port in FireWire.

Really, I don't like Apple's current pricing shenanigans. For instance, I planned on getting a MacBook Air but now I feel rather like getting ripped off by Apple selling $2 adapters for $29 so that I can have my DVI and VGA. Nor do I like the loss of the FireWire port on the MacBook, not even as a stock owner to-be. But in all earnesty, I am not sure whether Apple have "priced themselves out of the market". Yesterday's hints at Vista and Blu-ray were quite obvious. The same goes for the glossy displays. It remains to be seen if the new models are a bad move, let alone "epic failure" on Apple's part. Maybe they can get away with it, cause they have OS X. That's the point I was trying to get across.

Ah, we agree 100% on that! Apple is arrogant and feels that the Apple 'tax' (and I do not like that statement - but it fits the bill) works out to be about $600 just for the OS is justifiable! That is not a good business model. I will continue to pay for MOST Apple products but I will wait until they make a REAL update with aggressive price cuts to match the market. The only thing Apple has in its advantage is OS X and while that is a HUGE whole-card - it is NOT the be-all end-all, period.

8 years ago and people complaining about price ($1300 for entry level 8 years ago. Hmm ), ports and adapters and that not being a "REAL" update. Sound familiar? The more things change the more they stay the same :)
 
Fortunately, Apple already made that decision.

It's UNFORTUNATE that Apple made that decision this year. They will hopefully come to their senses next year.

Having a laptop screen that is not interactive (despite whether or not a user will use it regularly) is mind blowingly stupid.

Take it from my five year old niece who sat next to me whilst I was using my MacBook.

She said: "Why can't I touch this screen, but I can touch other screens and it works?"

I said: "Because the person who made this didn't want the screen touched". She replied: "Why not?".

I had no valid reasoned answer to give.
 
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The iPad Pro needs to run macOS.

Let the normal iPad cater for those who wish to have a larger version of their phone for internet browsing, games and reading emails.

iPad Pro needs to compete with Surface Pro. Right now it's just an overpriced iPad running underwhelming software that makes me want to use my MacBook anyway.
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It's UNFORTUNATE that Apple made that decision this year. They will hopefully come to their senses next year.

Having a laptop screen that is not interactive (despite whether or not a user will use it regularly) is mind blowingly stupid.

Take it from my five year old niece who sat next to me whilst I was using my MacBook.

She said: "Why can't I touch this screen, but I can touch other screens and it works?"

I said: "Because the person who made this didn't want the screen touched". She replied: "Why not?".

I had no valid reasoned answer to give.

Hahaha I love seeing kids responses to tech that we adults use in our daily lives.

I just think that by adding touch to OSX you will be doing what Microsoft is doing, and that is confusing people as to what the device is designed for. And therefor not giving the best experience based on what you actually need. Because that is really what sales and building a unique product is all about.

If I want to go really fast I buy a Fararri Enzo
If I want to go seriously off road I buy a Toyota Landcruiser
If I want both then I compromise a little on speed and off road capability and get a Audi Q7

I think Apple wants to create products that are based on user requirements, and not a one product fits all, I would say if your niece likes a keyboard but wants to touch the screen, Apple would point her in the direction on the iPad Pro.
What device was she referring to in the beginning that you can have a laptop with touch screen, I bet it was around the same price as the iPad Pro. And if she is touching the screen it's because it feels more natural and intuitive than using a mouse, so she doesn't need the mouse.

So you see she is actually wanting something like an iPad not a lap top with a mouse. Which Apple have been already doing because they believe its the future of computing and your niece and her generation is proof of that!
 
Regardless, I was reacting to your comment that the IPP was over $1000, which is not correct.

It's too bad you don't like the 9.7. Fits well within my use case, but, but obviously everyone has their own needs.


If you buy the 128 gb wifi with Apple care pencil and keyboard yes it goes over 1k, even the 9.7 came close to that, but to each their own. Happy you enjoy yours.
 
I am surprised it was selling at all...

same software on the iphone... crazy price... and does not replace a computer.
I love the iPad, but not the Pro.
 
I waited to get myself an iPad . I knew Apple would go the Stylus route one day. The iPad Pro rocks !
 
If you buy the 128 gb wifi with Apple care pencil and keyboard yes it goes over 1k, even the 9.7 came close to that, but to each their own. Happy you enjoy yours.
Fair point!

And looking back at my previous post, I come across as crass. For that I apologize, I was actually intending on being helpful, not snappy! I should never post while cooking! :eek:
 
Whenever anyone calls for some yet unevisioned technology to replace the highly usable in place technology, think that person is out of touch. What are you talking about? What is the bridge to tablet based utopia, venturing far beyond mortal input devices and file systems?


I think they have watched too much sci fi. Like star trek, they walk round with uber tablets of super power iirc.


Also hindered imo by the fact there is no earth shattering UI development. To make an app profitable it has to do 1 thing. Run on phones and ipads. App that reaches several user base markets....makes more money. So that user interface has to work and not have you want to slit your wrists when using on a phone.

So...you get a UI simplified so that it works on phone. Sometimes UI has to be complex. Most complex iOS ui I have seen is on the game freeblade. 1 finger tap...missile launcher. 1 finger constant pressure, the stubba/multi-melta. 2 finger tap...secondary high power weapon. I have mis-fingered this on a mini 4 and 9.7 IPP. On a phone? I am not that masochistic.

Computer side...nice "gaming" keybaords and "gaming" mice exist. Inb4 we don't game....Gaming mice and keyboards can be very programmable. To the point some games have a UI so complex you damn near them to not hate life lol. UI's as complex as non gaming real world applications I use. Long gone are the days of WASD (thumb press space bar as well) and left and right click on mouse as your only controls.

I use the same gaming mouse for gaming as I do higher level work. Open its config menu's, setup and assign key combo to a function button on mouse. In a game...I set up the killer combo. In real work application I have a several button press function or process called up just like that. Doing that function numerous times...lets make it 1 click. Work smarter not harder.
 
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Except for the one product which got an awesome redesign only four days ago.

Awesome redesign? I will reserve judgement until I've seen one and tried it. Personally I think they are way too expensive and will not sell well outside the core Mac fan base.
 
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