iPad2 v Galaxy Tab - compelling case?

[palpatine]

Lankyman,

I think you'll find that palpatine is one of the most informative and objective of the posters on this forum. Perhaps you were justified in taking offense at his comment but I think if you hang around very long you'll find that he's not inclined to take unjustified potshots. I'd suggest you chalk it up to a misunderstanding and let it go.

That's awful nice of you. I don't know how informed I am, or how objective, but I try to be fair in my posts. No malice intended.

 

[GreatDrok]

I don't buy Samsung stuff any more because they orphan products when they move on. I had a Blu ray player from them and they wouldn't update the firmware to deal with newer discs and they wouldn't even fix the problem with audio being out of sync. Once the newer model came along there were no more updates for 6 months at which point I gave up and returned the machine for a full refund. Samsung doesn't provide long term support so I don't buy from them.

 

[mystik610]

Totally don't get why some people consider Apple to be the bully mega-corporation and Samsung to be the poor oppressed "innovator."

Samsung's a mega-mega-corporation with their finger in nearly every pie in Korea and well beyond. I would hardly call the Galaxy an innovative product - which is what I would expect in a competitive market. Essentially copying an Pad and having it run Android instead of iOS is hardly moving the technological ball forward.

Samsung, ironically, also happens to source a lot of the components, including the displays, in many of Apple's products

 

[kdarling]

Don't I know it, 85 year olds with zero computer experience are constantly complaining about lack of Flash.

Cute

Of course, she didn't know what the missing feature was called.

All she knew was that the links the family were sending her in email ... to Flickr slideshows and uploaded HD movie sites ... just came up with blank windows.

It took us a little while to realize that some of the major sites we used, on both PC and Mac laptops to share family media, relied on Flash.

 

[Bernard SG]

I would counter with the following - I have absolutely no axe to grind either way as I don't currently own a Tablet computer though I do own an iMac plus a Mac Mini, I don't own any products from Samsung. I can therefore look at these products with an open mind. I think the iPad is a very good product, nice looking and nicely finished but so too is the Samsung.

Palpatine, why do you assume I was inferring that Apple fears the competition or that I was Apple bashing. Did you not consider I was drawing a conclusion that the Galaxy is a clone of the iPad hence I can see why Apple are trying to stop it being sold?

I find it perplexing that you appear to have such a defensive mind. Try thinking outside the box, it's a big world out there.

The thing is that an overwhelming majority of reviews made by serious bloggers that can't be suspected of Apple fanboy-ism clearly state again and again that the Galaxy Tab is no match to iPad even from a technological standpoint: Yes the Samsung touts hardware specs that are better on the paper but as a device it's nowhere near the polished experience you get from an iPad, from battery-life to availability of meaningful tablet apps.
Lenovo's CEO believes that Galaxy Tab sell-through is a dismal 20,000 units. I have no idea how reliable that estimate is, but a sure fact is that it doesn't sell. If the Galaxy Tab was good enough, the sell-through should be in the million units at least. There are enough people who WON'T buy anything Apple around the world that would be interested in a good non-iPad tablet, yet none of the competitors manages to achieve meaningful volumes.

 

[MacinDoc]

At this point, it's all about the (native) apps for each platform. There is a large discrepancy in apps designed for iOS tabs vs. Android tabs, to the point that many apps that users want are not yet available in native form for Android tabs. Apple still has the lead in phone-based apps as well, but the discrepancy is less relevant here because the number of Android phone apps out there can potentially satisfy most users.

Of course, many users' current investments in the Apple ecosystem may also provide some inertia that dissuades them from going Android. I wonder, though, if the converse would apply, because market studies have shown that Android users are much less likely to spend money on apps than iOS users.

 

[Bernard SG]

The availability of apps is only part of the story, albeit a big one. But there are other issues like stability, fluidness, battery life and so on.

 

[techkidd4400]

At this point, it's all about the (native) apps for each platform. There is a large discrepancy in apps designed for iOS tabs vs. Android tabs, to the point that many apps that users want are not yet available in native form for Android tabs. Apple still has the lead in phone-based apps as well, but the discrepancy is less relevant here because the number of Android phone apps out there can potentially satisfy most users.

Of course, many users' current investments in the Apple ecosystem may also provide some inertia that dissuades them from going Android. I wonder, though, if the converse would apply, because market studies have shown that Android users are much less likely to spend money on apps than iOS users.

The ipad has more native apps than Android tablets, but numeric superiority does not mean much if many, if not most, apps are crap. The number of apps that are popular and/or drive sales in the app store are far fewer than is acknowledged in the media. And, most of the popular ipad apps have been ported to Android by developers who want to sell apps.

But, I am in complete agreement with the point that once a consumer picks a tablet, competition is not likely to convince a consumer to switch from an ipad to the Galaxy Tab or any other android based tablet because the swtching costs are too high. Since we consume content on Tablets, few are going to want to re-purchase apps, books, music or any type of digital content on android tablets after buying it on an ipad.

 

[Lankyman]

The thing is that an overwhelming majority of reviews made by serious bloggers that can't be suspected of Apple fanboy-ism clearly state again and again that the Galaxy Tab is no match to iPad even from a technological standpoint: Yes the Samsung touts hardware specs that are better on the paper but as a device it's nowhere near the polished experience you get from an iPad, from battery-life to availability of meaningful tablet apps.
Lenovo's CEO believes that Galaxy Tab sell-through is a dismal 20,000 units. I have no idea how reliable that estimate is, but a sure fact is that it doesn't sell. If the Galaxy Tab was good enough, the sell-through should be in the million units at least. There are enough people who WON'T buy anything Apple around the world that would be interested in a good non-iPad tablet, yet none of the competitors manages to achieve meaningful volumes.

Well for a start let's look at the reputed sales figures and their reliablitly. In reality the Galaxy has only just come to market in many EU countries and not that many of them either as injunctions are flying thick and fast with the Tabs being withdrawn from sale either voluntarily or by injunction.

Apps - does everyone want Apps? If I bought an iPad I doubt I would buy Apps or if I did they could possibly be counted on the fingers of one hand. I'm genuinely not interested in all this app thing. I would use an iPad for email, browsing and streaming content onto my TV, oh and maybe the odd document. Beyond that I have no real use for it as I have an iMac and a Mini. I have never ever taken my Laptop even as far as my garden and certainly would not take an iPad mobile. I am not on my own either as figures published in Europe suggest the vast majority of consumers never take their iPads beyond their four walls.

Now moving on - I never said the Galaxy was better than the iPad, what I said was it was a very nice bit of kit aesthetics wise, perhaps a bit better looking than the iPad. I then went on to say that having competition in the Tabs market can only be a good thing for us the consumer as it helps to regulate prices and drives further innovation.

Flowing from that I have been accused of Apple bashing etc. which is a travesty of my original post and may I suggest that some posters need to read more carefully what I have written and have perhaps a little more perspective.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I think other than the popularity of the iPad compatibility for us Mac owners plus loads of apps the Sammy makes a very compelling case. Price wise there was nothing to choose between them.

Except that the majority of iPad buyers are not Mac users. iPad is not successful b/c fanboys are picking but rather b/c people and organizations sick of computers or don't need full computers are adopting them. Also you can't discount the # of quality iOS apps and also cross compatibility w/ iPhones b/c that is what drives hardware growth.

It's a tired comparison, I know, but once upon a time VHS and BetaMax competed. The Achilles Heel of BM though was that the cassettes couldn't hold enough tape for a longer movie. Once studios reduced availability of Beta compatible titles the consumer version of BetaMax withered.

 

[Bernard SG]

Well for a start let's look at the reputed sales figures and their reliablitly. In reality the Galaxy has only just come to market in many EU countries and not that many of them either as injunctions are flying thick and fast with the Tabs being withdrawn from sale either voluntarily or by injunction.

As far as I know, the Galaxy Tab has been withdrawn only in Germany and Australia. Anyhow, even if we take shipments it's reported to be 1 million worldwide since launch which is what Apple sells in less than one week. If those devices were any good, word of mouth would have triggered far more sales.

Apps - does everyone want Apps? If I bought an iPad I doubt I would buy Apps or if I did they could possibly be counted on the fingers of one hand. I'm genuinely not interested in all this app thing. I would use an iPad for email, browsing and streaming content onto my TV, oh and maybe the odd document. Beyond that I have no real use for it as I have an iMac and a Mini. I have never ever taken my Laptop even as far as my garden and certainly would not take an iPad mobile. I am not on my own either as figures published in Europe suggest the vast majority of consumers never take their iPads beyond their four walls.

Haha, maybe you don't need a tablet at all then... However, I didn't 'need' one either when I purchased my iPad but once you have it you just discover a whole new universe of possibilities and usage, productive or just consuming. On top of that, there are tons of truly awesome apps that are free. I also mostly use it at home but there's always the occasion when it's just natural to bring it along: traveling etc.

Now moving on - I never said the Galaxy was better than the iPad, what I said was it was a very nice bit of kit aesthetics wise, perhaps a bit better looking than the iPad. I then went on to say that having competition in the Tabs market can only be a good thing for us the consumer as it helps to regulate prices and drives further innovation.

Flowing from that I have been accused of Apple bashing etc. which is a travesty of my original post and may I suggest that some posters need to read more carefully what I have written and have perhaps a little more perspective.

The title of your thread itself suggests there is a "compelling case" but all evidence point to the contrary: there is no comparison. Look at the reputed review sites, Ars Technica, This Is My Next, Anandtech... they avoid saying it in a straightforward manner (or even don't even bother to compare with iPad) but it's quite perceptible that they don't put the two devices in the same league. On the pricing, it's the same at the base but Samsung is forced to offer discount to get a few off the shelves, to no avail.

There is no compelling case.

 

[kdarling]

The title of your thread itself suggests there is a "compelling case" but all evidence point to the contrary: there is no comparison. Look at the reputed review sites, Ars Technica, This Is My Next, Anandtech... they avoid saying it in a straightforward manner (or even don't even bother to compare with iPad) but it's quite perceptible that they don't put the two devices in the same league.

Every review I've read praised the Tab while comparing it to the iPad. The only downside reviewers gave was software selection. Using your examples:

"The Tab 10.1 is now the thinnest tablet on the market and yet doesn't sacrifice battery life or performance for its trim dimensions.

Does that mean it's better than the iPad 2? In some respects, yes.

Its camera takes better shots and it's lighter to hold, but Honeycomb's trailing app selection continues, and will continue to, hold back even the most miraculous Honeycomb hardware." - This is My Next

"The Galaxy Tab 10.1 easily has the best hardware of any Android tablet on the market today.

Samsung has really outdone itself—the Tab 10.1's svelte profile and impressively light weight (it weighs less than an iPad and has more RAM) are sure to attract the attention of consumers.

Hardware excellence isn't the only measure of a good tablet, however; software is arguably just as important—if not more so—on such a personal device." - Ars Technica

Software selection is in the eye of the beholder. A tablet is quite useful to many people as long as it has today's basics such as mail, browser, social apps, Netflix.

For other people, the reviewers are right that software choice can be a factor depending on what their needs are.

For instance, a lot of kid sites use Flash. Moshi Monsters has well over 50 million users. It's a major reason why my daughter often chooses to use an Android device over iOS, even though she plays other games like Fruit Ninja on both.

So for my family, there is no perfect tablet yet. We like Flipboard on the iPad. We also need the full Flash on Android phones and tablets. Everything else is a wash. (And I've read that Flipboard is working on an Android version.)

I'd say these days it's starting to come down to a price vs performance decision. Thoughts?

 

[palpatine]

Well for a start let's look at the reputed sales figures and their reliablitly. In reality the Galaxy has only just come to market in many EU countries and not that many of them either as injunctions are flying thick and fast with the Tabs being withdrawn from sale either voluntarily or by injunction.

Apps - does everyone want Apps? If I bought an iPad I doubt I would buy Apps or if I did they could possibly be counted on the fingers of one hand. I'm genuinely not interested in all this app thing. I would use an iPad for email, browsing and streaming content onto my TV, oh and maybe the odd document. Beyond that I have no real use for it as I have an iMac and a Mini. I have never ever taken my Laptop even as far as my garden and certainly would not take an iPad mobile. I am not on my own either as figures published in Europe suggest the vast majority of consumers never take their iPads beyond their four walls.

Now moving on - I never said the Galaxy was better than the iPad, what I said was it was a very nice bit of kit aesthetics wise, perhaps a bit better looking than the iPad. I then went on to say that having competition in the Tabs market can only be a good thing for us the consumer as it helps to regulate prices and drives further innovation.

Flowing from that I have been accused of Apple bashing etc. which is a travesty of my original post and may I suggest that some posters need to read more carefully what I have written and have perhaps a little more perspective.

I think I am the only one that accused you of Apple bashing. What I said was not a "travesty" of your original post. You still haven't clarified what you think the connection between Apple's patent lawsuits and the quality of Samsung's product is, beyond suggesting that you might have meant it in a different way than I interpreted it. Please enlighten my perspectiveless mind.

The only "travesty" here is that I don't think you have enough experience with tablets to make a persuasive argument. I am afraid you greatly underestimate the importance of apps. I think many people here would agree that the specs on competing hardware meet or exceed Apple's. There are still lingering concerns about competing products (as I pointed out earlier in the thread), of course, and some people don't like some aspects of the competing products. And, there are other issues (as I mentioned earlier in this thread).

But the app store is absolutely crucial to the iPad's success. Until you use some yourself, I don't know what I can say to convince you. There is a reason why Apple boasts about how large and how rich the app store is.

 

[Donka]

The galaxy tab is a really nice device. I would never get one for myself though for two reasons - App Store and the screen ratio. For a tablet, I much prefer the 4:3 ratio the iPad uses. If you only ever use a tablet in landscape then the Galaxy (and other Android tablets) makes sense but I probably use my iPad 60% portrait and 40% lanscape.

 

[Bernard SG]

Every review I've read praised the Tab while comparing it to the iPad. The only downside reviewers gave was software selection.

Nope. (way to go for selecting the not so meaningful chunks where the Samsung seems to be above the iPad. Again: raw specs that don't bear much importance for a tablet experience).

This Is My Next:

compared to the iPad 2, the experience doesn't feel as fluid and parts of it are stuttery.

Battery life has been somewhat of a mixed bag in my testing. While in actual use I have been able to squeeze out about seven to eight hours of runtime, the Tab 10.1's 7000mAH battery didn't fare as well in our video rundown test, which loops the same standard definition video at 65 brightness and WiFi on. It only lasted five hours and 33 minutes, which is about three hours shorter than the Transformer and five shorter than the iPad 2.

The Tab 10.1's two small speaker slits were louder than I anticipated, but still sounded relatively tinny. There's no question that the Warblers' version of "Soul Sister" (don't judge me for loving Glee!) sounded much fuller and balanced coming out of the iPad 2's rear speaker grill

Ars Technica:

The Tab 10.1 is a much more credible product than the Xoom, but it's not quite competitive with the iPad.

For Anandtech, I'm not going to quote but the interesting part is all the benchmark tests, which have nothing to do with iPad choice of apps but raw performance. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4445/samsung-galaxy-tab-101-review.

 

[jmpnop]

Every review I've read praised the Tab while comparing it to the iPad. The only downside reviewers gave was software selection. Using your examples:




Software selection is in the eye of the beholder. A tablet is quite useful to many people as long as it has today's basics such as mail, browser, social apps, Netflix.

For other people, the reviewers are right that software choice can be a factor depending on what their needs are.

For instance, a lot of kid sites use Flash. Moshi Monsters has well over 50 million users. It's a major reason why my daughter often chooses to use an Android device over iOS, even though she plays other games like Fruit Ninja on both.

So for my family, there is no perfect tablet yet. We like Flipboard on the iPad. We also need the full Flash on Android phones and tablets. Everything else is a wash. (And I've read that Flipboard is working on an Android version.)

I'd say these days it's starting to come down to a price vs performance decision. Thoughts?

Agree with this, software is the deciding factor. With iPad you get a lot of apps, stable OS but experience is completely controlled by Apple. With Android you get personalization, but has very few apps and the OS isn't stable. Flash is also an important factor when it comes to browsing. I prefer iPad for apps and consistent performance but I don't like the restricted system and homescreen which is just pages of icons.

 

[poloponies]

Cute

Of course, she didn't know what the missing feature was called.

All she knew was that the links the family were sending her in email ... to Flickr slideshows and uploaded HD movie sites ... just came up with blank windows.

It took us a little while to realize that some of the major sites we used, on both PC and Mac laptops to share family media, relied on Flash.

Well, then, for you Flash is obviously a strong selling point. My wife, whose computer skills are about equal to our dog's, wanted a netbook so she could surf on the go. I bought her the iPad instead and it's become an appendage. She is never without it. About 4-6 months after she got it she came to me asking why she couldn't view something on a web site. I realized it was a Flash issue and told her that the iPad couldn't access Flash content. It was literally a non-issue in the 4-6 months before she noticed and has not been a problem for her since (iPad 1, she's had it since the day it was released).

So, sure, if Flash is important to you then get something other than the iPad, but I think people overestimate its importance in general.

 

[palpatine]

Well, then, for you Flash is obviously a strong selling point. My wife, whose computer skills are about equal to our dog's, wanted a netbook so she could surf on the go. I bought her the iPad instead and it's become an appendage. She is never without it. About 4-6 months after she got it she came to me asking why she couldn't view something on a web site. I realized it was a Flash issue and told her that the iPad couldn't access Flash content. It was literally a non-issue in the 4-6 months before she noticed and has not been a problem for her since (iPad 1, she's had it since the day it was released).

So, sure, if Flash is important to you then get something other than the iPad, but I think people overestimate its importance in general.

Actually, I don't think this is correct. You can view Flash on the iPad. If you download iSwifter or similar apps, it works for most of the sites I have wanted to view.

The problem is that you can't view Flash on the iPad in the browser. So, it is a bit of a pain, and for people with low levels of computer literacy, it may be a significant issue.

Anyhow, the thread is about Samsung's tablet (hardware), and if we take the discussion into Android, then it's going to be pretty difficult to judge the product on its merits. Like the OP said, it is a good-looking device. Unfortunately, as so many of us have pointed out, we aren't just purchasing a slab of plastic and glass.

 

[poloponies]

Actually, I don't think this is correct. You can view Flash on the iPad. If you download iSwifter or similar apps, it works for most of the sites I have wanted to view.

The problem is that you can't view Flash on the iPad in the browser. So, it is a bit of a pain, and for people with low levels of computer literacy, it may be a significant issue.

Anyhow, the thread is about Samsung's tablet (hardware), and if we take the discussion into Android, then it's going to be pretty difficult to judge the product on its merits. Like the OP said, it is a good-looking device. Unfortunately, as so many of us have pointed out, we aren't just purchasing a slab of plastic and glass.

Yes, there are several streaming work-arounds now for Flash-based content, but my point was that lack of browser-based Flash isn't a deal-breaker for the vast majority of users. And for the occasional 85-year-old who doesn't want to be bothered with work-around options, maybe an iPad isn't the best solution.

 

[Bernard SG]

Yes, there are several streaming work-arounds now for Flash-based content, but my point was that lack of browser-based Flash isn't a deal-breaker for the vast majority of users. And for the occasional 85-year-old who doesn't want to be bothered with work-around options, maybe an iPad isn't the best solution.

It's more like the 18-25 old who's fixated on Adobe's Flash. The rest of the world doesn't give a rat's ass.

 

[FloatingBones]

Cute

Of course, she didn't know what the missing feature was called.

All she knew was that the links the family were sending her in email ... to Flickr slideshows and uploaded HD movie sites ... just came up with blank windows.

Check out this article to find out how to see Flickr slideshows on an iPad.

At the end of Apple's FY11 Q3 (June 25, 2011), a total of 28.73 million iPads had been shipped. For the current quarter (which ends September 24, 2011), I've seen estimates of iPad shipments from the low teens of millions to over 20 million (!) devices. I feel safe in saying that there will be between 40 and 50 million iPads shipped by this weekend.

A large percentage of these folk are media-hungry consumers. You can bet that major sites like Flickr will pay strong attention to the iPad marketplace.

If someone is viewing Hollywood movies on an iPad, they should be able to view them just fine with the appropriate iPad app. If they are downloading other videos from commercial websites, the content should be available through open protocols. AFAIK, Adobe's streaming servers were the last holdout for using proprietary formats; they now use open protocols to stream to iOS devices.

It took us a little while to realize that some of the major sites we used, on both PC and Mac laptops to share family media, relied on Flash.

Do you have a list of your media sites where you see no alternative to Flash?

 

[mystik610]

Yes, there are several streaming work-arounds now for Flash-based content, but my point was that lack of browser-based Flash isn't a deal-breaker for the vast majority of users. And for the occasional 85-year-old who doesn't want to be bothered with work-around options, maybe an iPad isn't the best solution.

And Android, with all the software bugs, unintuitive interface, and the need to constantly monitor task manager is?

 

[Lankyman]

Bernard SG responds ......Haha, maybe you don't need a tablet at all then... However, I didn't 'need' one either when I purchased my iPad but once you have it you just discover a whole new universe of possibilities and usage, productive or just consuming. On top of that, there are tons of truly awesome apps that are free. I also mostly use it at home but there's always the occasion when it's just natural to bring it along: traveling etc.

I'm only a few years away from retiring and please take it from me your take on life is a whole lot different when you're near retiring then when you are in the prime of life. I have no use either for smartphones or computing on the move and I know that is not going to change anytime soon. Awesome apps there may be but from what I've seen (and I do look) I have yet to see much that would persuade me I need or want them.

There is no compelling case.

In your opinion - I beg to differ. I think of all the non Apple Tabs released to date the Galaxy shows the most promise.

Do you fear Apple facing competition or do you simply deride others opinions in order to validate your own purchase decisions? I don't know which country you hale from but what I have noticed is a great many posters based in the USA (reputedly the land of the free and home to capitalism) have hysterics at the very mention of Apple's dominance being challenged. Coming from the UK I find that a very strange position to take indeed. How can Apple's continued dominance benefit the consumer? If this was Microsoft most of you would be shouting foul, this must be stopped.

 

[Lankyman]

I think I am the only one that accused you of Apple bashing. What I said was not a "travesty" of your original post. You still haven't clarified what you think the connection between Apple's patent lawsuits and the quality of Samsung's product is, beyond suggesting that you might have meant it in a different way than I interpreted it. Please enlighten my perspectiveless mind.

The only "travesty" here is that I don't think you have enough experience with tablets to make a persuasive argument. I am afraid you greatly underestimate the importance of apps. I think many people here would agree that the specs on competing hardware meet or exceed Apple's. There are still lingering concerns about competing products (as I pointed out earlier in the thread), of course, and some people don't like some aspects of the competing products. And, there are other issues (as I mentioned earlier in this thread).

But the app store is absolutely crucial to the iPad's success. Until you use some yourself, I don't know what I can say to convince you. There is a reason why Apple boasts about how large and how rich the app store is.

(a) if it is a copy of an iPad - tech wise and Apple can prove this then one can understand their chagrin.
(b) if it is a copy of an iPad - tech wise and Apple can prove this then one could understand why they might be worried by possible sales impact on the iPad itself if they can't win the legal argument.

My requirements for iPad or similar Tablet -
1. (can it browse the web?)
2. (can it send and receive email?)
3. (can I connect it to my TV and stream media content to said TV?)
4. (can it do the odd bit of short word processing?)

Do I have any other requirements at all for a mobile computing solution - NO absolutely not. Do I have any interests in apps? Looked at loads but yet to see anything that fired my interest enough to even persuade me to download one, free or otherwise. However, my lack of interest in apps shouldn't exclude me from owning a Tab surely? I should have added that in addition to owning the iMac and the Mini I do also own an iPod and get my music through iTunes.

Now I'm not sure how I can put my reply any more succinctly nor do I consider the above to be Apple bashing in any way.

 

[jsh1120]

...

In your opinion - I beg to differ. I think of all the non Apple Tabs released to date the Galaxy shows the most promise.

...I have noticed is a great many posters based in the USA (reputedly the land of the free and home to capitalism) have hysterics at the very mention of Apple's dominance being challenged. Coming from the UK I find that a very strange position to take indeed. How can Apple's continued dominance benefit the consumer? If this was Microsoft most of you would be shouting foul, this must be stopped.

Frankly, I don't find the Galaxy 10.1 compelling compared to the iPad. That's not because I find the iPad flawless; it's just that as a purely consumer level product I think the iPad is currently superior. On the other hand, I am intrigued by the possibilities of the Samsung "Note" as a more portable tab-phone. And if I were focused solely on business uses, I'd look very closely at the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet before purchasing an iPad. And a year from now, a Windows 8 tablet may well hold that same allure.

As for your other observation, I'd have to agree to some extent. Some consumers' attitudes about Apple are more appropriate for a beloved sports team than a multinational corporation. Personally, while I'm impressed by Apple's products I find their corporate approach to resemble that of IBM circa 1970. And just as I thought that was a stifling environment, largely devoid of important innovation, I have no faith that Apple would be any more innovative if it dominates the market in the "post-PC" era.