iPadOS Identified as Digital 'Gatekeeper' Under New EU Tech Rules

[djphat2000]

I don't get why its so hard to understand why some of us wants to install whatever iOS app some developer have written, on the device that we have already paid Apple for. People are talking here as if Apple paid us to use the device.

Key word is some. Apple didn't build it for any one to do whatever they wanted to with it. It is your device, and you can do whatever you want with it. It just wasn't made to be "open" in that way. We are defending our right to pick what we want the way it "is" or the way "Apple" made it. If you're not into that, you don't have to buy it.

We paid for the device.

Yes

We want to do what we want with the device we paid.

You can. Just Apple doesn't have to make it so you can do it and they support it. You can hack away if you know how. They don't have to condone it or support it. Or rather, they shouldn't not have to.

We like the look and feel of the hardware and the OS, why we bought it. Doesn't mean we want to pay for prison guards to barr us from doing what we want with said hardware and OS.

Part of the purchase. You don't have to purchase it knowing full well what it entails. Why people purchase it, knowing exactly that and still do only to complain is beyond me. But, again. There are options. You can purchase an android tablet and do whatever you want.

Its not quantum physics, why is it so hard to understand?

What I find so hard to understand is complaining about something you can clearly fix without complaining about it. I know plenty of people that enjoy doing whatever they want to their devices and they all buy Android for that reason. They don't like the restrictions Apple puts on them. That is perfectly fine, and make sense. They would not purchase an Apple product to then complain about its restrictions. Makes no sense. Vote with your wallets for what you want. It's not that hard.

 

[Beautyspin]

The number of times people try to make this nonsensical argument is hilarious. The only way this could be true is if the EU required app developers to sell an App Store version of their app so that users who only wanted to use the App Store wouldn't have to go elsewhere.

Apple is making it difficult for developers to sell on both the stores. They will have to pay CTF for apps that it distributes through the alternative app store as well as the Apple store. So, they will only go to either Apple's app store or the rival store.

 

[BiscottiGelato]

Key word is some. Apple didn't build it for any one to do whatever they wanted to with it. It is your device, and you can do whatever you want with it. It just wasn't made to be "open" in that way. We are defending our right to pick what we want the way it "is" or the way "Apple" made it. If you're not into that, you don't have to buy it.

Yes

You can. Just Apple doesn't have to make it so you can do it and they support it. You can hack away if you know how. They don't have to condone it or support it. Or rather, they shouldn't not have to.

Part of the purchase. You don't have to purchase it knowing full well what it entails. Why people purchase it, knowing exactly that and still do only to complain is beyond me. But, again. There are options. You can purchase an android tablet and do whatever you want.

What I find so hard to understand is complaining about something you can clearly fix without complaining about it. I know plenty of people that enjoy doing whatever they want to their devices and they all buy Android for that reason. They don't like the restrictions Apple puts on them. That is perfectly fine, and make sense. They would not purchase an Apple product to then complain about its restrictions. Makes no sense. Vote with your wallets for what you want. It's not that hard.

The ideal option is to be able to do what we want with the device and OS we already bought.

Yes, at some point more will be fed up and leave. Until then most of us don't want to be in the valley between the wall garden and whats not quite ready outside to replace it yet. Ideally we can have the wall garden do what we want. People want best of both worlds, its not that hard to comprehend. If the the EU state does a rare move that somehow enables more freedom, I don't see whats not to like.

 

[Beautyspin]

How do you explain the iOS lock-in creating 101 million active monthly users and iPadOS lock-in only creating 1/4 of that number? How do you explain the EU ignoring iPadOS only having 50% of the threshold required for DMA?

The EU has already explained the logic used for designating iPadOS as a gatekeepr. I believe Apple has 45 days to appeal the decision.

 

[vipergts2207]

Is Apple no longer a profit-driven business?

No they're an angsty teenager. Or at least some folks here believe they should act that way.

 

[Plerf]

I think it’s about time that Apple just gives in and just makes the EU rules more or less the global rules.

(Well, except for China—the Chinese will never go for it.)

 

[ericthered926]

That's not how the EU determines gatekeeper status.

"The European Commission presumes a platform is a gatekeeper if it meets two conditions. First, it must have an annual EU revenue of at least €7.5 billion in each of the last three fiscal years or an average market cap of €75 billion in the last fiscal year, while providing its core platform to at least three EU member states. Second, it must operate a core platform with at least 45 million monthly active users in the EU and more than 10,000 yearly active EU business users in each of the last three fiscal years."

It's not multiple choice. Gatekeeper status requires all of those thresholds to be met. Vestager/EU have admitted that iPadOS doesn't actually meet them.

Again you’re getting stuck on a point that, while valid, doesn’t have full context. Paragraph 1 section C of the DMA Gatekeepers rule qualifies that section you quoted with the following

it enjoys an entrenched and durable position, in its operations, or it is foreseeable that it will enjoy such a position in the near future.

The DMA also outlines ways for Apple to argue against this classification. They may have a valid argument to present, but the wording in the document feels a lot more “flexible”/pro-consumer in this situation and in my opinion this decision seems to go along with the wording and intent of the DMA as originally written.

 

[ypl]

I feel like I have no power in EU. Who am I supposed to vote for to not have this sh*t happen?

No chance. Vast majority is for such regulations.
BTW. Strange approach to take huge, monopolistic company’s side,. Apple is like Microsoft of 2020s. I hope that’s just the beginning. Take them EU!

 

[Beautyspin]

You could always just buy the device that fits your needs and allows you to install whatever you want. No one is forced to buy an iPad

Thankfully, iPad will be the device due to the intervention by the EU. How nice.

 

[Glideslope]

lmao just keep changing the rules. yeah sure lets see how this plays out

may as well design your own device, eu

The EU goal has always been to become a Master Gatekeeper. Most of the litigation is designed to remove control from Private Entities and place it in the hands of EU Governments. The claims of being "About the people, for the people" is Window Dressing.

 

[Rogifan]

I'm pointing out that game consoles can run business/consumer software if allowed to do so. That shows the argument that game consoles are different than a "general computing device" is false. They are general computing devices. They could run MS Office and email applications. They could run photo editing software and video editing software.

It’s people like John Gruber trying to argue a difference as justification for why iOS/iPadOS don’t need to be like the Mac.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Or maybe before they decide to just pull out of the EU altogether.

The EU may collapse by the time this bs follows through.

 

[Beautyspin]

Or just maybe there are a lot of consumers completely satisfied with the experience Apple is already providing.

They might have to move to some other country/region or make their own devices, I am afraid. I know that life is not fair.

 

[ypl]

Mac OS on future iPads?

Great idea! I love macOS (iPadOS not much). 👍😎

 

[SmugMaverick]

Or maybe before they decide to just pull out of the EU altogether.

there's one of these in every thread where Apple get caught being scumbags by the EU, its hilarious.

Let me spell it out for you AGAIN, Apple will NEVER pull out of the EU where they make 30% of their profits.

NEVER.

Apple knows the iPad is literally a giant iPhone, don't let the silly iPadOS name fool you.

 

[bodhisattva]

Deciding who can and cannot decide what can be locked down on their own intellectual property.. sounds like a little reverse gatekeeping by the ol' EU. Funny how those complaining about the rules are setting themselves up to be the rule makers.

 

[Beautyspin]

I just hope they can keep this heavy-handed approach in the EU and not bring it to the USA.

Don't worry. I think the DOJ has picked up the baton of the heavy-handed approach in the USA.

 

[cfountain72]

What is so special about 90%? Is it a God-given figure? The argument might fly in the USA, not in other countries. They have their own arbitrary criteria that determine when a product is a monopoly.

No, there is nothing special about 90%, though it does indicate a firm's dominant market power where government action may be necessary to 'insure' competition. Apple's mobile phone market share is barely 33% in Europe, ergo they have no such power in Europe. A monopoly would be indicated where a single firm has so much power, that there are no similar substitutes for that firm's products. This is obviously not the case.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Protecting from what? For 17 years Apple has dictated on over a billion users that they can only install apps that Apple approves. That's not protecting, that's gatekeeping, and it is just criminal considering no other major Mobile or Desktop OS does that.

I rather pay extra for this feature than expose my data and privacy to Android and Google.

 

[Beautyspin]

No, there is nothing special about 90%, though it does indicate a firm's dominant market power where government action may be necessary to 'insure' competition. Apple's mobile phone market share is barely 33% in Europe, ergo they have no such power in Europe. A monopoly would be indicated where a single firm has so much power, that there are no similar substitutes for that firm's products. This is obviously not the case.

They have all the power on the 33%. In fact, they have more power on the 33% than the other OS has on their 67%. I think that has sealed the deal for the EU.

 

[vipergts2207]

And it's no different from the EU fanboys sticking up for their overlords and their inconsistent and overreaching policies, when even they themselves admit that iPadOS doesn't meet the defined thresholds. Quite frankly, by them stating that...they (the EU) are admitting that they aren't even following their own rules. That's not a good way to govern...

The EU claimed that 45 million active monthly users was part of the threshold for "gatekeeper" status. iPadOS has half that number in the EU. The obvious downside is that the EU is just randomly changing the rules.

I actually agree, the EU should be following their own rules they setup. They should go back and make changes that reflect what they actually want it to do. However, while I disagree with the EU ignoring their own metrics for what makes a gatekeeper, iOS and iPadOS are essentially the same OS and use the same store for apps. I can see why they think iPadOS should be regulated in the same way as iOS, but again, they should modify the law to do so.

 

[gnipgnop]

Again you’re getting stuck on a point that, while valid, doesn’t have full context. Paragraph 1 section C of the DMA Gatekeepers rule qualifies that section you quoted with the following

it enjoys an entrenched and durable position, in its operations, or it is foreseeable that it will enjoy such a position in the near future.

The DMA also outlines ways for Apple to argue against this classification. They may have a valid argument to present, but the wording in the document feels a lot more “flexible”/pro-consumer in this situation and in my opinion this decision seems to go along with the wording and intent of the DMA as originally written.

That definition, by itself, would also make Spotify a gatekeeper. They have a durable/entrenched position. So what you're claiming as the context doesn't seem to translate into anything the EU is actually doing per "gatekeeper" classification.

 

[Sergio The One]

anyone who wants to only run Apple App Store apps and etc can keep doing it!

We're one business partnership away from "Get our app EXCLUSIVELY on this no name App Store".

We've seen it happen over and over again. And it would take just 1 big or necessary enough app for people to have *no choice* but to use another App Store.

 

[Apple Mac Daz]

Surprised the EU haven’t jumped on Apple for not allowing you to downgrade your devices

 

[DJ_Envo]

Wait… so you bought something despite it not liking how it works… LOL

I bought it because it's more practical for a different purpose. But it's quite idiotic that i have two device with the very same processor for two different kind of needs just because Tim Apple would like to get more dollars. Why I can't actually do development on my iPad???

It's like when you purchase a motorcycle but your vendor strictly prohibit to use it on a highway, so you're purchase a car too.

macOS for the iPad will happen eventually, it's just the matter of time, not the matter of your liking.