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ypl

macrumors member
Jan 30, 2022
48
45
there's one of these in every thread where Apple get caught being scumbags by the EU, its hilarious.

Let me spell it out for you AGAIN, Apple will NEVER pull out of the EU where they make 30% of their profits.

NEVER.

Apple knows the iPad is literally a giant iPhone, don't let the silly iPadOS name fool you.
They’ve just lost significant part of Chinese market. So … you’re definitely right.
They want our money? They have to obey the EU rules. Easy.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,192
8,159
Wait. You are joking with me. So they are complaining that Apple has too much power over their own products?
Nope, that’s it! This whole thing initially started as a “monopoly” argument but those that understood what the word means convinced regulators that Apple’s tiny marketshare in the region could not not be a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination. That’s where the whole “gatekeeper” thing came from, to avoid having to try to build a regulation that indicates that company’s shouldn’t have control over a company’s products. That would have overturned what every other company in the region was doing.
 

DJ_Envo

macrumors newbie
Sep 20, 2021
18
86
That's a different kind of platform entirely. Even so, let's go with your line of thinking, are they using their platform to abuse competitors or the market in some way? You might actually be able to get me to agree with you here that Spotify needs regulation if so, though it would likely fall under something outside of the DMA.
There will be regulations about the artist shares as well, Spotify and Daniel Ek will get his part of this whip as well.
 
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cola79

macrumors 6502
Sep 19, 2013
380
437
Hey EU, I think you should classify Spotify as a digital gatekeeper of music.

Then use the DMA to force Spotify to allow musicians to distribute their music through the platform for free.

Who cares about compensation for the entity that creates, maintains, or develops the platform? Hint: it's not the EU
That is not the same!

Spotify hasn't got a unique product, nor that tells the people what and how to sing.

Apple indeed does have a unique product and tells people how to code their products and doesn't allow competition.

You can see this in the browser category, where you only get one single browser and others can only put another UI above it.

And Spotify is a good example too. Apple does take an extra fee when another company wants to sell the exact same product. That is not a free market where the better product makes more profit. Even if nobody uses Apple Music, they would still make millions when people use Spotify and pay it through the Spotify app instead of the webpage.
 

groove-agent

macrumors 68000
Jan 13, 2006
1,873
1,768
gate·keep·ing: Gatekeeping is the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something.

Isn't that hypocritical irony? Isn't that exactly what the EU is doing? Aren't they trying to control and limit what Apple does? They unilaterally decide what's appropriate and even people outside the EU are having to put up with it. For example, having to consent to cookies each and every bloody time you go to a new website is just plain annoying and really doesn't safeguard our privacy that much.

I sort of understand limiting a company if they have too much control/ power and abuse it, but if you put forwards millions, maybe billions of dollars to curate a product that people love, why should other companies or the EU get to dictate how you do it? Mac products are much more stable and reliable because they are a closed system, and I'm thankful for that. I don't want that compromised because I have to side-load a necessary app because that company doesn't want to give apple the 30% cut.

A part of me wishes Apple would just pull out of the EU and let them suffer with PC/ Android devices. That would never happen though.
 

Beautyspin

macrumors 65816
Dec 14, 2012
1,032
1,183
Wait. You are joking with me. So they are complaining that Apple has too much power over their own products?
Why is it a joke? If the devices are so efficient, Apple does not need to prop them up using lock-ins, walled garden, anticompetitive moves, and such shenanigans. So, why is Apple terrified about the DMA? Why is their compliance so malicious? Nothing shows this more than the CTF.

If VW develops some incredibly efficient (and popular) engine technology, does the EU step in to demand they share it with Ford?

If you own a grocery store chain with 33% market share, would you expect the EU to step in and force you to sell some new, organic lip balm I invented?
I am not going to argue about the analogies because they're not comparable or they are legitimate in your imagination, I am sorry to say.

If you spent years to developed a wildly successful app--but you only developed it for iOS--would it be right for another entity to knock on your door and demand that you develop it for Android as well?
Any link that says DMA is doing this?
 

bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,277
1,639
Ontario Canada
This is already being proven false, seeing how the first alt store has exclusive apps.
Which is because of how Apple implemented DMA compliance and the CTF.
Because of the CTF Riley would have to implement IAP in Delta itself, which he doesn't want to do (I think for license reasons). By distributing it exclusively in Alt Store he can use the Alt Store subscription to pay for the CTF for both Delta and the Alt Store. Since there is no way to tie Delta purchases in the mainline App Store to the Alt Store IAP he can't put it in the App Store.
This is Apple's fault for saddling everyone with the CTF (they still gotta earn that cheddar)
 

bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,277
1,639
Ontario Canada
Ads. Why is meta required to allow users to opt out of ad tracking but Spotify doesn’t have to offer a similar plan on their free tier?
Because Meta is a dominant platform?

Don't get me wrong, I think all ad platforms should be require to let users opt out of tracking but the EU only requires dominant/large platforms to do so.
 

Beautyspin

macrumors 65816
Dec 14, 2012
1,032
1,183
I agree. Without the App Store, the iPad would have probably failed. However, I also think the iPad would have failed with a Mac-like approach. Turns out, the “locked-in” model was very successful and customers like the iPad a lot. And Apple was (and is) responsible for the decisions they take. If they’re right, they will benefits from high customer satisfaction; if they’re wrong, they won’t sell products.
The minute Safari was no longer the default browser, there was a marked improvement in the downloads of alternate browsers. Some of them were not even mainstream/well-known browsers. As days pass, the safari market share on iOS in the EU will reach Mac levels. The reason I am giving this example is that unless the users have seen the alternative, we cannot say whether users will like it or not. Let MacOS or some other OS run on the iPad. We will see how good the sales will be. If people are paying for a gimped-up OS, I am sure they will gladly pay for a more productive OS easily.
 

BiscottiGelato

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2011
320
166
I think it’s about time that Apple just gives in and just makes the EU rules more or less the global rules.

(Well, except for China—the Chinese will never go for it.)
If Apple have a universal switch for sideloading, even the CCP won’t be able to do anything about it. They will just continue to force Apple to censor the App Store. And pretend their great firewall will do the rest. After all they don’t force Chrome to censor websites for them
 

mr_jomo

Cancelled
Dec 9, 2018
429
530
Interestingly Article 17, section 4 of the DMA legislation covers what the EU has done with iPadOS:

4. When the Commission, pursuant to Article 3(8), designates as a gatekeeper an undertaking providing core platform services that does not yet enjoy an entrenched and durable position in its operations, but which will foreseeably enjoy such a position in the near future, it may declare applicable to that gatekeeper only one or more of the obligations laid down in Article 5(3) to (6) and Article 6(4), (7), (9), (10) and (13), as specified in the designation decision. The Commission shall only declare applicable those obligations that are appropriate and necessary to prevent the gatekeeper concerned from achieving, by unfair means, an entrenched and durable position in its operations. The Commission shall review such a designation in accordance with the procedure laid down in Article 4.
 

spazzcat

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2007
3,751
4,951
Which is because of how Apple implemented DMA compliance and the CTF.
Because of the CTF Riley would have to implement IAP in Delta itself, which he doesn't want to do (I think for license reasons). By distributing it exclusively in Alt Store he can use the Alt Store subscription to pay for the CTF for both Delta and the Alt Store. Since there is no way to tie Delta purchases in the mainline App Store to the Alt Store IAP he can't put it in the App Store.
This is Apple's fault for saddling everyone with the CTF (they still gotta earn that cheddar)
Or he could have kept the status quo and released the app in the App Store as he did in the rest of the world, but he is trying to make a point that I believe has failed.
 

BiscottiGelato

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2011
320
166
The EU goal has always been to become a Master Gatekeeper. Most of the litigation is designed to remove control from Private Entities and place it in the hands of EU Governments. The claims of being "About the people, for the people" is Window Dressing.
I don’t disagree. Thats why the fight should be about side loading. And any alternate App Store would just be built on top of sideloading without much effort needed from Apple’s part. This is also the lowest lift on Apple’s part.

Apple is basically investing a ton expressly to continue their lock-in, it provides zero user or developer benefits
 

Beautyspin

macrumors 65816
Dec 14, 2012
1,032
1,183
No, the criteria requires more than 45 million active monthly users. iPadOS has 23 million according to Apple.

EU Commissioner Thierry Breton said the iPadOS investigation marks the first time the bloc has determined whether a platform can be considered a gatekeeper based on qualitative factors, rather than a for simply breaching a numerical threshold for users.



To be classified as a gatekeeper under the DMA, a company must have annual EU revenues above €7.5 billion or a market capitalisation exceeding €75 billion, along with more than 45 million monthly active users and over 10,000 yearly business users in the EU.



The Commission said Apple's business user numbers exceeded the quantitative threshold by eleven times, while its end user numbers were close to the threshold and were predicted to rise in the near future. It said both business users and end users are locked into iPadOS because of its large ecosystem.

 

Stromos

macrumors 6502a
Jul 1, 2016
800
1,933
Woodstock, GA
this doesn't hurt the platform in any way. it hurts the profitability of the platform, which doesn't affect users like you or me.
So many complaining about how iPadOS is crippled and not what they want it to be and people seriously think Apple is going to be better about iOS and iPadOS if the OS is less profitable.

The EU hurts Apple's bottom line and we will definitely as end users will be affected. It will be behind the scenes so everything thinking this is great will deny it's the cause, but this will lead to a weaker product with the option to switch to Android and just throw privacy out the window.
 

BiscottiGelato

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2011
320
166
That's a different kind of platform entirely. Even so, let's go with your line of thinking, are they using their platform to abuse competitors or the market in some way? You might actually be able to get me to agree with you here that Spotify needs regulation if so, though it would likely fall under something outside of the DMA.
Its not the platform. It’s the device and OS. App Store can do any pricing or censorship they want. As long as iOS devices are not forced to use the App Store to get apps. Ideally not forced to use any App Stores or weird licensing that requires KYC more stringent than getting a banking relationship just to develop iOS apps
 

BiscottiGelato

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2011
320
166
So if the iPad was looked at as a focus because of gaming, are they looking at actual game consoles? Because Sony was certainly not mentioned in this list, or Nintendo! Why can’t we install whatever we want on those devices, then?? Are they not big enough in Europe?
Game consoles are not advertised as general purpose computing devices. And there is significant engineer gap to become general devices.

Phones literally are advertised as computer in a pocket. But in reality its more like an Apple branded AOL device in a pocket
 
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